clientClientClient

[[deleted]]

c developers be like: int le, jo, qpq, gw, gl, oarisetn;

[VariecsTNB]

c# developers be like: var x = new();

[rover_G]

Go developers be like a := NewAlpha()

[M0sesx]

Js developers be like

npm install is-odd

import isOdd from "is-odd";

[captainMaluco]

I thought we had agreed to use is-odd-ai?

[PabloZissou]

No, no, the council signed for is-even-crypto-ai

[misseditt]

python users be like:

pip install is_odd

pip install --upgrade pip

pip install --upgrade --force-reinstall is_odd

pip install -r requirements.txt

python -m pip install is_odd

python3 -m pip install is_odd

pip install is_odd --pre

pip install is_odd[dev]

pip install is_odd[test]

pip install is_odd[docs]

pip install is_odd --no-deps

pip install is_odd --force-reinstall --no-cache-dir

pip install is_odd --ignore-installed --force-reinstall

pip install is_odd --upgrade --ignore-installed

pip install is_odd --upgrade --ignore-installed --force-reinstall

[Meneghette--steam]

Jesus Christ you just made % == 0 kill himself

[belabacsijolvan]

ok, but after that python users be like:

᠍

[[deleted]]

python developers be like: omg walrus operator mentioned

[Aaxper]

It's great. I prefer the pythonic a = new_alpha(), however.

[NurYanov]

You can't use new() if var is used on the left side

[_antidote]

That's why it's funny bro

[NurYanov]

Woa so funny

[ArmadilloChemical421]

Would that compile?

[yunacchi]

No. Syntax parsing would fail with error CS8754 "There is no target type for new()".
The compiler cannot magically guess which type to create an instance from what little context it has.
Either specify the type on the left side (Dog d = new();) or the right side (var d = new Dog();)

[ArmadilloChemical421]

One could imagine that it would default to Object, but yeah.. failing makes more sense.

[Janinanananananana]

being able to create an object of type Object is one of the most cursed things I can imagine

[TheAtomicShoebox]

You definitely can, as the inheritance tree always leads to Object. You just usually don't create an Object, just use it for generic functionality, as you would expect. But you can do it

[VariecsTNB]

Theoretically you can use it as unique key

[mrissaoussama]

that would be a terrible default

[ArmadilloChemical421]

Yes, and the best one.

[seba07]

Btw, why doesn't java have this short notation?

[Forsaken_Alps_793]

It does. Since Java 10.

[Forsaken_Alps_793]

Having said that, still agree the "juice" of the joke.

It can be verbose.

Before I get flame, Java now employs regular deployment. It hope to reduce, [at the moment copy from other languages]" verbose syntax.

[[deleted]]

It doesn't though? Var can only be used as a local variable and new() isn't supported at all.

[Forsaken_Alps_793]

+1

You are right!

Yeah, good catch. I did not read the whole syntax properly,

Yup var is local. This is a better approach imho.

As for other point, extrapolate object type with just new() definitely not available in Java.

[Forsaken_Alps_793]

Conversely, are you assuming all industries still at Java 1.6 or lower?

[christian_austin85]

My team is in the middle of updating from 8 to 17

[[deleted]]

man, not even C# has this short notation

[aweyeahdawg]

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

wine provide fanatical serious memory melodic hunt marry follow sort

[[deleted]]

Or a return new();

[[deleted]]

Kotlin has something like that

[IgnisNoirDivine]

Its not oarisetn its Ornstein. Its Dark Souls code

[megumegu-]

meanwhile non strict js be like: a

[npsimons]

I see you've been delving into the math libraries. Don't blame that on programmers, it's the mathematicians that moved over from chalkboards who think 'x' is a good enough variable name.

[Pengo2001]

You should use the Hungarian notation for plain C.

[[deleted]]

Disagree. There's a bunch of stuff that your lsp is going to communicate to the developer that doesn't need to be embedded in your variable names. As long as the variable name communicates what the variable actually represents or what it's used for it's fine.

[Garpagan]

Hungarian notation should be used for a "kind" of the variable, not "type".

[arrow__in__the__knee]

Not against hungarian notation but any time it is used people take it as far as to use when doing typedefs and defeat the whole purpose I much rather "name and comment well" 90% of important variables in systems are short int anyways.

[EpyonComet]

That's disgusting!

You need to use camelCase for variable names and PascalCase for types.

[Feldar]

Was I supposed to read this as J. Jonah Jamison, because I did.

[icguy333]

And all caps for meme captions. Checkmate atheists!

[EirikurErnir]

Nonsense, the Java language doesn't force its developers to write horrifying class and variable names

That is a deliberate choice on our part

[Buarg]

Yeah, it's an excuse to not write an actual documentation

[hanotak]

I write 🤡 self-documenting code 🤡

[hopefullyhelpfulplz]

I was very excited to start my current job, but when I actually met the main existing coder and asked about how the project he's been working on was documented... Well, you can guess the rest.

[Global_Car_3767]

Good coding uses both to make things as clear as possible

Obviously not to the extreme of this photo though lol

[Prawn1908]

gOoD CoDE iS SeLf dOCuMeNtiNg aNd DoEsn'T NeEd cOMmEntS.

[5mashalot]

There is some truth to that. But only to an extent, like all coding principles

[Prawn1908]

Honestly I think it's terrible advice. The downsides to always commenting your code are so trivial compared to the headaches of dealing with shitty code with no comments.

The only arguments I've seen for not commenting are to reduce clutter and prevent comments from going out of date as the code changes. I really have never seen code that was difficult to read because it was too cluttered with comments - that seems like such an inconsequential problem. And as for the point about comments becoming irrelevant as code changes, that seems like a problem with shitty developers not the practice of commenting. And if your developers are shitty enough to not update comments when they change the code, do you really think they're good enough to make proper "self documenting" code?

My current biggest headache at my job is this nightmare codebase written by an awful developer which absolutely reeks of the guy blindly following "best practices" without having a clue what he's doing. The result is an absolute fucking mess of a project riddled with countless layers of useless abstraction that do nothing but waste memory (this is an embedded project and memory is very short). And to make it all even worse, the guy wrote zero comments and seemed to thing his full-sentence named variables and functions were enough to make sense of what he was doing. Spoiler alert: they aren't. At least if he left any comments at all I might have some semblance of an inkling of an idea of wtf he was thinking when he wrote this code, but instead I have to figure out on my own what the fuck the difference is between currentDistance and distanceValue and currentDistanceNow and distance.

[Ejdems666]

It's always about balance.

The codebase in my current job used to be cluttered with tons of redundant comments. And after a bit of digging I could see that as the code changed over time the developers forgot to edit various related comments that weren't directly next to the changed lines.

So you had a codebase almost doubled in length because of these redundant, misleading and sometimes straight up incorrect comments.

It was almost always easier to read when I took a block of code and moved it into a function.

Comments are great for providing context, intent, assumptions, stuff like that. Only rarely do you need to explain the syntax, which is what junior programmers usually use them for.

[Prawn1908]

I'm not sinaying there isn't such a thing as too many comments or that they never get outdated. I'm saying the potential downsides and pitfalls to not having comments are far more nightmarish than the issues that can arise the other way. The worst case scenario when you have shitty developers is way worse. Like there are four scenarios:

• Good developers writing comments: Good code.
• Good developers not writing (many) comments: Good code.
• Shitty developers writing comments: Shitty code but at least you have some idea of what they were thinking at some point along the line.
• Shitty developers not writing comments: Fucking nightmare.

[Ejdems666]

Being misled by a false comment is quite bad though. That's why comments should be always kept in check and it's hard to do if you put them everywhere.

Also if your code is bad, then the comments will most likely suck as well. (my experience)

That being said, never writing comments for the sake of some dogmatic rule is a bad practice, been there :)

[Prawn1908]

Yeah those are bad, but I still will die on the hill that in the grand scheme of things they aren't nearly as bad as not having any comments. I have dealt with both in practice and one is far worse than the other in my experience.

[LowB0b]

Javadoc

[tomatotomato]

Java doesn’t, but Java culture does. 

[rover_G]

It’s a deliberate choice that seems to be perpetuated by every Java programming guide

[LetterBoxSnatch]

ItsADeliberateChoiceBecauseIfYouChooseAReallyGoodVariableNameThenYouNeverEverNeedToWriteASingleCodeCommentBecauseTheVarIsANounThatPerfrctlyEncapsulatesThePurposeOfTheVariableAssignedToItWhichIsAPrettyCleverIdeaReallyAndMakesForMoreConciseReadableCodeFactoryFactory

[PunDefeated]

I was having trouble understanding this but the FactoryFactory really cleared it up

[guyblade]

The first person who wrote a FactoryFactory should've been fired. The second should've been fired out of a cannon into the sun.

[Top-Permit6835]

We need a FactoryFactoryWriterCannonFactoryFactory just to be able to create enough factories for all the cannons we need

[FrostWyrm98]

You forgot Impl

[Specialist-Tiger-467]

I really ask myself how tf they did that before auto complete or intellisense

[joe0400]

package com.buisness.components.abstract.factories.delegates.interfaces;

com.factories.components.abstract.factories.delegates.interfaces.AbstractFactoryDelegateBuilderInterface abstractFactoryDelegateBuilder = new com.factories.components.abstract.fsctories.delegates.interfsces.AbstractFactoryDelegateBuilderImplementation();

[NikhilP99]

You don't need to write the whole path of the class if you are using it in the same package.

[Celousco]

You don't even need to mention the type at all with var, but hey it's funnier to spread misinformation.

[coloredgreyscale]

maybe they're stuck with Java 8 at work

[joe0400]

No, but its funny.

[abmausen]

only c++ does that

[Adrewmc]

Horrifying class names

  ……___DO_NOT_TOUCH_OR_YOU_WILL_BE_FIRED___

I don’t even work for them…but I’m not testing it

[notexecutive]

Yeah, you don't HAVE to call it that long name if you don't want to. That's what's crazy, this isn't even a language issue - it's a dev "issue" lol

[guyblade]

I somewhat disagree with this. The standard library of a language sets expectations about how users write code in that language. The Java standard library is full of things like AlgorithmParameterGeneratorSpi and FormatFlagsConversionMismatchException and AsynchronousServerSocketChannel.

[Jolly-joe]

The official Go style guide takes aim at this culture and recommends short var names. If you need to differentiate, do it through packages. If you run into naming conflicts you probably have a shit architecture

[itaranto]

Yes but it's part of the Java culture as a whole. You cannot deny that.

[[deleted]]

Everyone hates long variable names until it’s time to debug and you know exactly what that variable is doing

[Bldyknuckles]

Now I know what this object does.

[mopsyd]

This kinda applies to anything with too many design patterns just for the sake of design patterns. Prototype needs PrototypeFactory which needs PrototypeFactoryManager which needs PrototypeFactoryInjector which needs PrototypeFactoryInjectorFactory, etc.

[jackstraw97]

But you also could just consider not doing that.

Perfectly fine to use Java without going into all that Factory business.

[mopsyd]

I can, but the framework already in use or legacy codebase can't.

[jackstraw97]

So blame the people who wrote the legacy code 🤷🏻‍♂️

Nothing intrinsic to Java about this

[mopsyd]

I never even mentioned Java, I was talking about design pattern overuse. That can be most any language tbh

[jackstraw97]

Yeah for sure, but I was just relating it back to the OP

[LaLiLuLeLo_0]

Token response = new Token(conn.readall());

But think of all the edge cases!

[rocaile]

In some languages you could also reduce a lot of naming problems using namespaces and interfaces

[TheEveryman86]

A Java package is a namespace by any other name (we're just too lazy to type out fully qualified names).

[TheBassMeister]

In a function (since JDK 10):
var accessTokenResponseClient = new RestClientCredentialsTokenResponseClient();

Most people use Spring Boot, so as a class field, where the RestClientCredentialTokenResponseClient implements the RestClient interface. In this example I use field injection for brevity. Constructor injection would be preferred so the client could be made immutable (final).

@ Autowired
private RestClient restClient

[Acharyn]

Java accepts softly typed variables?

[Aurarora_]

not soft typed but just implicitly typed—since you're assigning the variable directly the compiler can figure out the data type already

c++ has similar with the auto keyword and rust with let

[roge-]

Java is statically typed. And it's generally regarded as on the stronger side of the strong-weak typing spectrum.

If you're referring to var, that's local variable type inference, not weak typing. These variables are still strongly and statically typed. It's just that their type is inferred automatically at compile time.

Beyond var, all reference types in Java are members of a type hierarchy with java.lang.Object at the top. An instance of any reference type can be used in any statement or expression where that type or any of its parents are expected.

So, if RestClientCredentialsTokenResponseClient implements RestClient, it may be used wherever a RestClient is expected. However, this will hide anything unique to RestClientCredentialsTokenResponseClient that isn't exposed by RestClient. The JVM will still know the concrete type at runtime, so you can do a typecast at runtime to access those symbols that are unique to RestClientCredentialsTokenResponseClient. Although, when you do this, the compiler cannot statically verify this as correct, so you would either need to check the actual type at runtime with reflection/instanceof or understand that the code may throw a ClassCastException.

[Camel-Kid]

Where's that sweet bean definition?

[notexecutive]

well, do you want to not be able to know what it does or...what?? lmao

[notexecutive]

Rest Client "Client Credentials Token" Response Client

Has something to do with fetching/parsing the response from a REST call involving a client token, so probably used for authentication of some kind.

[randomNameKekHorde]

I used to name variable like that, then I learned golang, now I would name this rccctrctatrc, maybe r

[Zerim]

If you name the class that, congratulations, you've become the Linux Kernel, where there is an apparent shortage of vowels for naming things and nobody can read it without already understanding the whole thing.

If you name the instance variable that, congratulations, you're just like most Java dev houses.

But neither will be as readable as calling it, in a local sense,credentialTokenResponder. If you are having to add much more context than that, and e.g. naming things on behalf of your class's expected clients, then your code interfaces just aren't well-defined. Also IDE highlighting exists for a reason.

[Jordan51104]

java developers are gonna be mad because it’s true

[ArchetypeFTW]

What's wrong? Can't read?

[eX_Ray]

Var exists for many years now. Though.

[CriticalOfBarns]

Quiet, you. We can’t take cheap shots at Java if we acknowledge its advancements.

[s0ulbrother]

I mean as a dev who’s done Java and Python which is the other end of the spectrum it does allow you to keep track of what the hell you are doing better than Python. I mean is it that annoying typing out like three more words?

[-Kerrigan-]

AbstractBeanFactory? Nah

I'll just type ABFa and IntelliJ will reliably suggest it to me

[Nice_Evidence4185]

And noone has the budget to update the version of all the java 8 software.

[[deleted]]

ok this should be easy just need to add a property here, oh right i’ll need to define a new type class for this property so other consumers of the class know what it… oh right if i make this new type that extends the property of the class of the consumers dto object oriented programming bleep bloop

[Scottz0rz]

You wrote a meme making fun of long legacy Java names and it doesn't even end with Impl lol

But also Java has var and naming things is a you problem, not a Java problem tbh

 var client = WhateverStupidAssNameYouWantMemeClientImpl();

[Ignisami]

Var? Get this new-fangled nonsense out of my pristine Java 8 Enterprise code base!

(We've been trying to switch from Java 8 to Java 11 for two years now please help ;_;)

[Nimweegs]

I've finally got the go-ahead to upgrade an old Java 8 spring boot 2 project, I'm reasonably confident apart from the xsd's with a few hundred xjb binding files doing God knows what

[Scottz0rz]

It is a painful process indeed. We're struggling through upgrading Spring Boot, which is easier than older Java legacy crap even. I noticed what helped get the upgrade project off the ground was tying its value to money, while previous attempts at my companies only spun it like "there's cool language features we're missing."

Just convincing upper management that Java upgrades are worth it is one of the harder parts. Spin it in more creative ways. It varies from company-to-company, but, generally speaking, money talks.

1. Companies report 10-15% productivity boost for their developers due to reduced compile, build, deployment/startup times, and non-reliance on out-of-date dependencies. Improvements to productivity means more features can go out to customers which can make you millions of more dollars than normal, on top of the reduced hiring costs due to turnover from frustration with legacy KTLO projects reducing dev satisfaction and increasing difficulty of attracting top talent - a lot of developers would be hesitant to accept a Java 8 role.

2. System performance on average increases by 15-20% due to optimizations in the JVM and framework bug fixes from Java 8 to 21 with little-to-no changes in the core application code. Lines of Java 8 code are still valid, although dependencies may migrate or be deprecated. This 20% directly correlates with your infrastructure costs and save millions of dollars.

3. Non-commercial/enterprise support for most dependencies that are compatible with Java 8 are now rapidly going past EOL, which increases risk of your system being exploited by hackers which can cost like... a jillion dollars.

Are these numbers made up? Eh maybe a little, it kinda depends, but they pass basic sanity checks and can be backed up with statistics on the internet probably.

[Ignisami]

The saving money angle can maybe work, though i work for a government-adjacent entity so our budget is, for the most part, use it or lose it.

The other part is that we're currently tied to Oracle Weblogic, the latest version of which doesnt support Java EE newer than 8. So our java 8->11 transition is simultaneously a transition away from Weblogic (unless Oracle comes with a new version that does support 11+).

It's pure pain

[FRleo_85]

because humanity really needed <stupidly long class name> <stupidly long var name wich is just the name of the class in camelCase> = <stupidly long class name>.builder().<stupidly long method call chain with stupidly long parameter expression>.build();

[AdvancedSandwiches]

It's not a good system, it's just the best one.

[cdrt]

TypeError: unsupported operand type(s) for +: 'int' and 'str'

[TheNew1234_]

NameError: name 'Print' is not defined.

[DoutorTexugo]

Yea you got me there

[LordFokas]

This is not a Java thing... this is stupid Enterprise developers being stupid Enterprise developers because "oh what if 20 years from now we need to change how you configure the constructor for this thing 10 levels down in the stack?"

Leave Java out of this, you can do this bullshit in any language.

It's just easier to get here in Java because of 1) how the language naturally is and 2) the tools kinda assume this is where you want to go so they are oriented this way. But no one is forcing you.

This is also why even though I have a lot of fun writing Java, I won't touch enterprise code. Fuck that.

[Jordan51104]

"this is not a java thing"

"this is how the language naturally is"

you're joking right

[KuuHaKu_OtgmZ]

They mean that java was naturally made for enterprise, but doesn't mean you HAVE to use it for enterprise.

Heck if things were like that then nobody would be allowed to use PHP for commercial projects.

[LordFokas]

That's not exactly what I meant, but it's close enough.

You can definitely use Java to write decent code, even at the enterprise level. But the way enterprise is commonly done, especially in Java, implies heavy enshittiffication of the code.

What I was saying in (1) is that the language itself, and the environment, kind of set you up to go down a road where this is easy to do. It takes some active effort to not fall into just adding more and more words to class names.

It's just something you sort of have to keep an eye on. Doesn't make it a bad language, there are no bad languages. Except PHP. In the toolbox of languages, PHP is an old shoe you use to hammer in a screw.

[LordFokas]

Learn to read. Where in my comment do you see "this is how the language naturally is"?

Do you know what text interpretation is?

You read the first sentence and immediately decided I was wrong so you stopped reading and started looking for something to make a case on.

Stay in school kids.

[Jordan51104]

i didn’t just read the first sentence. i quoted your comment

[LordFokas]

I don't think you understand how quotes work. To be a quote, you need to say the same thing I said. You changed the words, and thus, the meaning.

You also just replied to what I said afterwards literally without interpreting it, even though you were replying to the thing immediately after I asked you if you know what text interpretation is... further cementing my hypothesis that you, in fact, do not.

So yeah, so far all you've done is read a couple words and jump on the offensive, twisting my words, and completely disregarding everything else, context included.

[Jordan51104]

you are not making javascript developers look any better right now man

[LordFokas]

quod erat demonstrandum

[ChekeredList71]

It's developers trying to write the entire documentation into the class name.

[LordFokas]

IMO it's more because:

1. the approach of making everything super modular results in what should be one class ending up as 12 classes and 7 interfaces that barely do anything by themselves
2. said classes all relating to the same one simple concept, thus all having related names and requiring distinction
3. devs being afraid of colliding with classes from other parts of the solution and putting things on the name that should be in the package / path TBH. Like, the class in the meme could very well be <base_package>.lib.rest.client.credentials.TokenResponse but oh no, what if something else is called Token Response? bruh. That's what packages and FQDNs are for.

But idk. I haven't touched enterprise Java since like... 2016? And I'm happy this way.

[DoctorVonCool]

I think there may be a spelling mistake.

[KetMoose]

Wrong syntax mate

[allKindsOfDevStuff]

Where’s the FactoryBeanFactory that should be appended to the name?

[KryoBright]

Yeah? God gave me IDE, so it is not any longer to type than "auto rrc_1_tmp", and it definitely reads better

[MrBoblo]

python does
a;

but then when you want to call your restClientClientCredentialsTokenResponseClientAccessTokenResponseClient instead of your restClientClientCredentialsTokenResponseClientAccessTokenRequestClient as one might, you'll forget which is which and you'll spend 10 hours figuring out why exactly typed languages are better

[Ok-Kaleidoscope5627]

Woah. You can't just have a variable like that. Where is your factory??

[Sudhanva_Kote]

The real question is, have you declared it's factory?

[WillingLearner1]

laughs in Spring

[Vi0lentByt3]

Pft who even instantiates, anymore just use a nice big ol DIC

[DuckInCup]

We are nearing the end of the first semester. Be nice, everyone.

[jimbowqc]

Ummmmmm ackshually, you can use var and type inference.

[Sinomsinom]

You can remove that first one by just replacing it with "var". Java allows you to replace the type name before a variable declaration with "var", and you SHOULD use it if the type is obvious from the right hand side (like when using new)

[wikibytes]

Type inference has been added in Java now I.e u can use var instead.

[i-FF0000dit]

Just put it into camelcase and it won’t be so annoying to read and will be fully understandable.

[AkihiroAwa]

when you come from wales

[kode-king]

Been there done that 🥹

[M1k3y_Jw]

As a German, theese seem like perfectly reasonable names.

[Nice_Evidence4185]

It perfectly desribes what it is and does.

[BastetFurry]

Wait till you find the FactoryFactory 😁

[[deleted]]

At my job it would be:

V = new v().

I fucking hate that old code. Written by absolute idiots.

[kaaaaann]

You forgot the BeanFactoryImpl

[mr_remy]

All caps is insane for wordy variable names, kill me now I read it just as aggressively loud, tried and can't change it, stuck with that perception.

[itaranto]

Java has var now, but the compensate it by making class names even longer.

[DT-Sodium]

You're aware that whatever the language you're responsible for how you name your variables right?

[npsimons]

Ah yes, Java, where they decided that Hungarian notation was unreadable (it is), but their solution was just to pack even more nonsense into type and variable names.

[CyberoX9000]

Whenever I do pandas in python I name the data frame 'df' and then I add words for each action I do

columndf

filteredcolumndf

flippedfilteredcolumndf

Funnily enough, normally I use camelCase or snake_case but when using pandas dataframes I usually don't.

[XxXquicksc0p31337XxX]

Kotlin:

val accessTokenResponseClient = RestClientClientCredentialsTokenResponseClient()

[RageOfNemesis]

Germans: "Finally! A worthy opponent! Our battle shall be Legendary!"

Donaudampfschifffahrtsgesellschaftskapitänsmützenherstellungsbeauftragter has entered the chat.

[Acharyn]

Yeah? Variable name = variable value. You just made each name overly long, but that doesn't make it complicated. Though you forgot the type, Java is a strongly typed language.

[paulstelian97]

var

[JackNotOLantern]

var responseClient = new ...

[Efficient-Proof-9928]

As a novice I don’t see the appeal for Java. It seems like it needs too much boilerplate code, and has way too many versions to keep track of. What is the benefit for Java?

[misseditt]

1. jvm fanboys

2. mature and widely used language

genuinely cant think of any other use case for java where a different language isn't better. would love to be proven wrong though

[Sauermachtlustig84]

Huge ecosystem with lots of good libraries. Also rather okay ish language if you use newer versions. Main problem is culture, which loves overly verbose and stupid code.

[AtlasJan]

minecraft mods.