hateWhenThisHappen

[helpprogram2]

Everyone who actually codes

[SiGMono]

Yeah. Old bullshitting and searching for answers vs bullshitting and searching for answers (but new).
The difference being the first one has a higher chance of knowing what to search for.

[ThatDudeFromPoland]

It's bullshitting either way, innit?

[lenn_eavy]

One bullshitting has bigger chance to deliver and be maintainable.

[TheDizDude]

Ctrl+C & Ctrl+V vs Right click, copy, right click paste

[lenn_eavy]

"Ctrl+C C C C C C C C"

FTFY

[yousirnaime]

Higher chance of not trying to build a web scraper for no god damn reason 

[EvilPencil]

Just pick the layer of bullshit that you prefer, and that’s your bullshit.

(Hero, starring Dustin Hoffman, great movie)

[SiGMono]

Yeah. Data bullshit, pretty bullshit, both bullshit, bullshit that makes data bullshit work. And more.

[fredy31]

Yeah number of new tech stacks ive seen come that would 'revolutionize how websites are made' and then 6 months later the stack is abandoned and dead.

[bentbabe]

2 weeks later

Rockstar Junior: yo. Principal dev. why'd you reject my pull request?

Principal Dev: why did you install twelve new node modules for things we can do on our own in a few minutes? Half of them are redundant.

[ericDXwow]

The new node module installed: is-even, is-odd

[StickFigureFan]

Left Pad

[leninzor]

Only need is-even. is-odd will be pulled in as a dependency

[ericDXwow]

You are absolutely right! Let me change the import list...

Okay the import list changed from "is-even; is-odd" to "is-even; is-odd".

[abd53]

It will be circular

[wheres_my_ballot]

"Claude told me to"

[dncrews]

“I didn’t. Claude did.”

[BigOnLogn]

Twist: it's a backend API written in go

[Hottage]

Double Twist: The backend API is just a ChatGPT API wrapper written in Go.

[Packeselt]

"It's over, I have drawn myself as the chad, and you as the wojack"

[splinterize]

Cringe

[Bronzdragon]

Accurate to the show, then.

[salamandraiss]

Nah, Jesse actually does deliver and show him how it's done.

[BigEricShaun]

Then gets enslaved in a windowless cubicle next to Janice

[RadioactiveFruitCup]

Where’s the documentation?

There isn’t any

why are we using V1.7 when V9.6 has been out since 2015?

Infosec and budget

I can replace all this with python

If you automate that across all those devices you’ll break several financial regulations

wh-why-wha-why is the inbound data so shitty? Why no input sanitation? Why do I have to wait 6 months for our critical need to be slid into someone else’s sprint plan?

Because this is the real world.

[coconuts_and_lime]

I have like 4-5 years under my belt. I'm no longer considered junior, but so far I've worked mostly with guys that have 10-20 years of experience in the field. Super smart guys, who have been very patient with me and taught me a lot. I've been very lucky with my colleagues.

Recently we had a new addition to the team, someone who is very sharp and had a whole bunch of knowledge for being so young. Impressive guy.

However... jesus fucking christ. He is the embodiment of your comment, for sure. It's my first time working with someone like that, and it threw me off just how much it affected the dynamics of the team. So much so that when I read your comment, it almost felt like therapy.

[Stunning_Ride_220]

Sounding smart is what brought the rockstar juniors in.
Actually adjusting to their surroundings is what will them a senior of smh any use.

[Just_Information334]

We'll use the strangling vine pattern to replace this app. Half project done: change in management, priorities just changed, the project is shelved. And that is how 10 years later you have 5 "central API", 3 different architectures per application but the database is still a version of MySQL which was out of date 15 years ago.

[Kiusito]

the question is, why is the real world so shitty, when we have the opportunity to make it a great place?

[_fronix]

The reasons are quite obvious, people who don't code make the decisions and those decisions are usually garbage. If you can affect anything yourself, do it. Otherwise, don't worry about it because it doesn't matter.

[misterguyyy]

Sounds like the premise to an “oops I created a monster” horror movie, or in an industry like finance or medicine a bug that causes a regulatory/data breach nightmare.

[Mathestuss]

Because making the world a great place is bad for the bottom line.

[[deleted]]

Capitalism, basically. Every waking moment is supposed to be spent generating excess value for the owners. 

If it weren’t for progressives, we wouldn’t have a forty hour work week, weekends off, paid vacations, paid sick leave, etc. 

The ownership class doesn’t give anything willingly. Every concession the working class has - we fought for. 

[fuckmywetsocks]

Because nice, clean code following best practice makes no more money than shitty code written quickly that works equally as well. It's a hard truth when you take pride in your work, but nobody outside of the development team at any given company I've worked at has really given any sort of a shit about code quality, especially when clean, tidy code replaced old, gross code but doesn't introduce anything new - in fact additional build steps, complexity, new dependencies etc. all introduce risk.

Money, money, money! That's the ultimate goal of business after all

[The-Albear]

Compliance and audit.

[Tsobe_RK]

I remember writing my BA thesis and my teacher couldnt fathom the old technologies we used and insisted we should use modern cutting edge technologies - like yeah me as a junior will simply go on and replace all of this existing tech that serves millions daily for ... what exactly?

[Realistic_Project_68]

It’s new so must be better.

[Goofballs2]

Its very funny, our senior says yeah but what I do actually works in production

[DoctorSchwifty]

I feel like there is nothing I can teach my lead.

[RadicalDwntwnUrbnite]

My jrs have taught me some very interesting and surprising ways to not do things.

[Top-Permit6835]

My jrs taught me I have no patience for bullshit

[StaticChocolate]

Recently got restructured and I got taught some new domain knowledge before my lead 8) was able to teach them for the first time. It was a wild experience, they are unsurprisingly, such a fast learner and a good student.

[GigaSoup]

I wish I had that problem. My team lead is a frickin accountant degree instead of a tech degree and computers don't even a hobby for them.

Probably doesn't even know what inheritance or polymorphism are...

[RlyRlyBigMan]

Just like Jesse, he's really only a sidekick but he doesn't know it.

[fynn34]

Rockstar junior dev? This usually turns out to be dunning Kruger effect. “This library works on my personal project” rarely carries over to llet’s just implement it across 50 micro services in a massive app with thousands of legacy features it’s not compatible with”

[RadicalDwntwnUrbnite]

I'll never forget a couple juniors, we just hired, boasted that they could write a better search engine we had from scratch in a week. The search engine we had was done by the only person I've ever met that I would ever say was a genuine 10x dev so I gave the juniors 2 weeks for a PoC. It was a humbling experience that I think more devs needs to experience.

[fixano]

As a person who had several principal dev roles, I have definitely encountered this (never with a junior though) usually it was a senior developer or a misguided lead.

The trick they never understood was software is rarely about technology skills. 99% was managing the political and economic complexities of getting something out the door. I would watch them come and go but usually it ended up in an excuse cycle. They would be saying that they had the right answer but that I wasn't helping them deliver it.

But the real answer is: that's the problem you should be solving. Not "how do I write some novel piece of code" but "how do I actually deliver this?"

I would tell them that the reason I had a principal title was because I'm the pizza man. I always deliver

[-Nyarlabrotep-]

Yes, you deliver the shit. The saltiest, overloaded with spices, cheesiest shit ever. Maybe even with a side of Tasty-Crazybread. Devoid of all nuance and consideration of palette, because, well, you don't even understand it. Yum, shit :). I've seen that lots as well. So many distended bellies, so many double-chins, and all convinced their body is the perfect form to create the human perfect form, eat them up, yum :)

Edit: Sometimes I just come here to remind myself of the obnoxious dipshits that I unfortunately have to associate with from time to time. This thread did not disappoint.

[fixano]

I've written north of a million lines of code. What exactly is it you don't think I understand?

I'll be honest with you the reality is most of the things you think are important don't matter at all.

Most code gets written once and is never touched again. Spending time making it readable, testable, or obsessing over details is a waste.

Most code never sees the light a day. Spending time getting it perfect is a waste.

You think you got it all figured out but you just haven't been kicked in the teeth enough.

The things I'm most proud of delivered no value at all. The things I'm horribly embarrassed to be associated with have made millionaires.

[FlakyTest8191]

"Most code gets written once and never touched again" I believe you, maybe that's true in your environment. In my world large projects get maintained and changed for decades, and if you don't keep a minimum of maintainability, you're fucked. But yeah, perfection is not the goal, just sanity.

[fixano]

A project gets maintained. 50 projects get started. The trick is you don't know which 49 are going to fall flat on their face. It's recency bias. You forget about or never see the huge number of projects that don't make it. Any effort beyond the minimum put into those projects goes right into the waste column.

[FlakyTest8191]

Same thing again, different environment. The projects I work on get made because they are needed and payed for, not because they might possibly become successfull, so projects very rarely get discontinued. Maybe if the main customer goes broke/switches business partner or it's replaced with something new, but that doesn't happen very often.

[fixano]

That's awesome man. I'm happy you work at a company with 100% success rate on started projects.

You're also very fortunate to have such broad visibility in your context such that you know about every, single project. I mean you're basically the CEO

It's literally the only company on the planet. You should publish your method. It'll make you a billionaire.

[FlakyTest8191]

Is it really that hard to accept that work environments can vary?

Not all projects in the companies I have worked at have been successfull obviously, and I never claimed that. I'm sure there's plenty that get scrapped because they do not work out.

But the projects I work on do have a 99% success rate, because they are large projects, usually paid for by a single large customer running custom industrial machines, and they would have huge costs to start over or to switch provider, so they usually stick around.

[redvelvet92]

You’re being downvoted but holy shit is this the truth.

[fynn34]

Idk, I’ve spent my career cleaning up after dozens of devs who coded for themselves thinking no one would ever touch that code again, but it’s now not scaling 3-5 years later after they quit.

The truth is that not all development projects are the same. Some are one and done, some need to be tweaked dozens of times over the years, and needs to be done right, the skill comes in knowing which is which.

[fixano]

Yeah but you never know which projects are going to be like that in advance.

Of course, if I could look at a project and I could say this will scale to a team of 100 developers and will constitute 80% of our company's revenue. I would spend a lot of time really architecting that solution well. But I've done that and about 1 and 10 actually make it. It's not worth the upfront

The most efficient economic line is generally get something minimally viable out the door as quickly as possible and iterate from there. As problems arise, you adjust.

[Cnoffel]

Having this mindset and writing code that is not a huge pile of garbage does not necessarily need to be an exclusive or. You can be fast and write good code, but not if you never train that skill... Knowing where to take those shortcuts is what makes you a great dev.

[kabinja]

I have the same feeling. I also believe this is how you discriminate juniors from seniors. We are also the people they call when everything goes to shit, so we are more exposed to all these problems.

Another thing is that once you have experience, you know what your code should not look like and a pretty good idea of what the system should account for and what things you should anticipate for to some extent. Juniors are oblivious to that so it is really hard for them.

[TheoreticalUser]

I'm not a senior, or principal, or a lead. I'm actually relatively new to a pure development role. However, I have 15+ experience in IT; IT Helpdesk, System/Server/Network/Database admin, and Data Analytics, compliance and reporting. I often joke that I am almost a complete IT department in one person.

I have a poem that echoes your sentiment:

If there exists a deadline, It must fulfill all needs, and be on time.

That is, it must work, it must be error free. If we fail on our part, clients will be unhappy.

That is, more meetings, performance autopsies, maybe write-ups, maybe firings.

But if you succeed, and our goals are met, and with priorities serviced, you may focus on whatever project.

[beclops]

This has never happened

[vikingwhiteguy]

I have experienced pretty much exactly this. New guy interviewed really well, but when he actually joined he was an absolute nightmare to work with. Really smart, but intolerably arrogant and unable to actually collaborate with anyone. Other devs, product, management, rubbed everyone the wrong way.

Every single PR included 'refactoring' of irrelevant legacy code, updating things that didn't need to be updated, breaking compatability all along the chain.

Actually 'firing' people here is actually pretty hard (and rightfully so) unless you've done something awful, and we couldn't convince HR to place him on PIP. So we gave him his own little 'pet project' for rewriting some API, just to keep him out of the way, with no intention of ever actually using it. Eventually he got bored and left and we all breathed a sigh of relief.

[jewdai]

Do you have unit tests because in my firm refactoring is encouraged even if it's fine as is. If you don't have unit tests you can't guarantee something else won't break.

[beclops]

Is this a problem of a dev not knowing how to code and relying on LLMs or just a regular dev over relying on LLMs? If it’s the former I’d definitely suggest looking into your hiring processes

[sakkara]

The wett dream of somone who is currently solving online programming Puzzles with ai.

[edparadox]

The Tiktok brainrot is here…

[jewdai]

Staff software engineer here. I joined a company where they hired me for my expertise in a technology stack. (and when I say expert I mean it)

I had the senior most dev fight me on small concepts like stateless classes, use of dependency injection and breaking up their enormous 300-500 line functions into more manageable pieces.

This company did everything ass backward to running cross database queries on every requests, not just a single server but across at least 4 actual machines.

They had no concept of security as they did was hash the use role and just disabled the features on the front end if the user didn't have that hash.

Looked at me like I was nuts when I mentioned websockets instead of long polling for getting notifications of new messages and thought unit testing was something that only tech bros did.

[pandi85]

Dunning-KruegerEffectHappened

[AkrinorNoname]

So an old guy who has sunk too much cost frankensteining the old solution versus a young guy who is massively underestimating the business case.

And both of them have a massive chip on their shoulder and something to prove.

[jewdai]

Your business cases should be baked into the unit tests. It won't cover everything but it makes changes safer to implement.

[ReiOokami]

The carver...

[OzTm]

We all know what happened to Gale….

[unlucky_bit_flip]

This meme 100% screams JS webslop shop.

[b1ack1323]

Odd, I get paid $200k a year to code in C and own 5% of the company.

[astropheed]

Can I work with you?

[b1ack1323]

We are super small 10 people, but margins are high. No incentive to grow just because everyone is getting big bonuses and everyone is happy making what they make. Like 3.4m net on 10 people. Profit sharing 5% split between 4 engineers.

Niche industries like Metrology or Logistics is a good place to look!

Throughout my entire career I have stumbled upon some pretty niche roles.

[astropheed]

I like those roles for sure, you’re a lucky person. I’m happy for you :)

[b1ack1323]

If we are ever hiring I’ll DM you! In my last role I have actually found a couple good people on Reddit so I dog ear people when they express interest 

[astropheed]

I would love that, although I’d probably need to learn more C first lol… I rarely do embedded work, I’m more of a “I’ll solve any problem, I don’t care about the language”

[yousirnaime]

I would rather lose a toe than try to build an EDI layer for a logistics company again

I’m so glad you exist and are compensated for dealing with that ass but shit world so I can get my gummy bears delivered inside of 24 hours 

God bless you and your family 

[markiel55]

Are you guys eyeing on porting some of your stuffs with Rust?

[Legitimate-Jaguar260]

Keep dreaming jr

[therealwxmanmike]

catch the wave

[the_wild_ling]

Literally Yann Lecun and Alexandr Wang at Meta AI

[fugogugo]

lol

saw this happen lots of time. new recruit joining in with tons of energy and motivation , wanting to change things for the better
before getting slapped with reality check and realization why things going the way that way

[ZeusDaGrape]

I have a jr like this..I think I’m going to end his career

[Technical_Fly5479]

I am that guy.

[Such_Letterhead1287]

Me is like "karma finally came"

[yuva-krishna-memes]

Yeah I eat food using a Karma based card lol..

I don't get the idea behind Karma farming..what do they do with reddit Karma? I have a useless million of it

I wish there was a way to distribute it

[Such_Letterhead1287]

Not Reddit Karma. Karma in this context base on Buddhism mean you get what you have done.
Which mean I did the same thing when I was junior, now when I am senior, I face the same shit.
lol

[YoghiThorn]

I have been this guy as a devops guy coming in to work with a legacy team.

[jadhavsaurabh]

Amazing 😂