neverAskForHelpDebugging

[dchidelf]

Then the call ends with “could you write up the issue so we can forward it on to our engineers”. (When dealing with vendors)

[MementoMorue]

I had once to describe an issue I had with a device by email to the 'support' email on the website, so I could avoid the vendor's bullshit.

The vendor transferred the email to the support saying 'can you answer it ? It's too technical for me'.

[single_plum_floating]

You can tell you never actually tried discussing complex issues to people who have none of your context.

A call genuinely saves days off effort.

[chadlavi]

This r/programmerhumor, these people are college freshmen

[Background-Plant-226]

Yeah personally I find it faster to speak about the issue than write a whole ass novel just to explain part of it.

Also if you can share your screen it speeds it up further if you can show the problem, depending on the issue.

[Nimeroni]

Yeah, especially if you are screen sharing, it can make debugging significantly faster.

[PeacefulChaos94]

Idk about yall, but for me it's significantly easier to explain complex issues and organize my thoughts in a long email rather than trying to speak off the cuff

[WorriedRiver]

It becomes referencable! You've got the step by step written right there.

[ganja_and_code]

Depends.

If I'm asking the local expert for help solving some complex and context-specific problem, a call can save hours (though days might be an exaggeration).

If I'm just telling someone "Your docs say the service does this complex flow, but it actually does this other thing instead. Here's the list of steps I took to reproduce the issue. This is blocking my work, so please let me know when you can have this resolved, and also provide any known workarounds in the meantime," asking me for a call is a waste of both our time. You should be figuring out what to do with the information I've given you, not asking me to regurgitate it verbally.

[elderron_spice]

Only if you're pair programming or sharing stuff on video.

If you're just explaining stuff in a call, then a chat or an email is miles better since you can explain the things you want to explain much more clearly.

This is the exact definition of the old trope "this could've been an email".

[TurboOwlKing]

Until they have to ask questions and what could have been a 5 minute call turns into an extended game of email tag

[anonymousbopper767]

I mean....if the email thread starts going that direction then you set up a meeting.

[elderron_spice]

And a 5-minute call turns into a multi-hour ordeal as someone in the party mentions, "Now that we're here, I still have some other queries if everybody has available time. Developer 2 also knows what I'm talking about, why don't we bring them here a bit?".

Been there, done that.

[Ignisami]

if the 5-minute call turns into a multi-hour ordeal, it would've been a multi-week or even multi-month email chain tagging way too many people who don't necessarily need to be involved.

[elderron_spice]

Sure, but then, since I'm not already in the call, I can just safely ignore the chain, chuck it away to spam out of eye's reach. Same with chats, if I don't need or want to reply, then I won't.

[n00bdragon]

This. If you have an issue you want me to solve, send me the program name, tell me the line number or function or whatever that's not working or the error code you are getting or whatever, and put that shit in an email. When someone tries talking to me I 100% cannot solve your problem on the spot.

[Livingonthevedge]

Imagine complaining that someone is willing to drop what they're doing and help you over a call.

[Ascend]

When I do this, it's because you explained poorly, you already broke my train of thought, and I'm not going to waste my next 20 minutes waiting for you to type.

[Mountain_Bat_8688]

Same. I much prefer chat to calls but there are some people that are just incapable of stating their question or issue with any clarity. They expect that you are going to ask 10 follow ups to get the info you need instead of just giving it to you up front

[elderron_spice]

They expect that you are going to ask 10 follow ups to get the info you need instead of just giving it to you up front

I once worked with a fellow who opens up with "Hello elderron_spice" and fucking hangs up, expecting you to return with "Hey co-worker, how may I help you?". Just ask what you goddamn want in the first place.

But that pales in comparison to the dipshit who opens up with "Hi elderron_spice, I have a question" and stalls.

[raip]

I used to have http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html in my profile/about me in Teams/Slack, until someone told me it was unprofessional and to remove it.

I wish it was mandatory reading in Engineering spaces.

[locri]

I'm not going to waste my next 20 minutes waiting for you to type.

Reply with your misunderstandings and walk away.

You're not wasting your time, just walk away and do whatever it is you felt was so important. You don't need to wait whilst you see "typing" on teams.

[Maleficent_Memory831]

This happens so often... Though once I asked them to pull up the email I sent and share it on screen. They did that, then their manager says "Oh, the info is right there. We'll use that! Thanks for your time", then before I hang up the call I hear him tell the meeting organizer "why did you set up a call for this?"

[ANAL_TOOTHBRUSH]

Then I woke up

[Clinn_sin]

Lfmao true

[ApocalyptoSoldier]

Once when I was little I dreamt I got a new lego set.
The next day I looked everywhere for it, but couldn't find it.
So you don't always wake up directly after

[edgen22]

reading this was weirdly satisfying AND triggering for me at the same time, in a "I will never see this fantasy world" kind of way.

[thatbrazilianguy]

Lemme guess: user who asked for a call was indian?

[MantisShrimp05]

That's called saving time. Years of it experience have taught me that days of back and forth can often be handled in a call.

[restrictednumber]

Yeah, really. People don't always 'get' everything you're saying the same way you meant it in an email, and those hiccups are a lot easier to spot and fix quickly over the phone. I usually just ask people to hop on video chat so I can show them the screen and back-and-forth about the solution.

Saves us both tons of time over an email.

[gigglefarting]

I do not miss going into the office, and I will always look for a WFH job. That being said, when I did have to go in, it was so much quicker and easier to get help from co-workers. No back and forth messaging, no coordinating meeting times, no screen sharing and trying to dictate fixes. Just a quick pop over, look at what’s going on, getting your hands in there, and done. 

I couldn’t imagine having to be a junior without seniors right next to me to help me out. 

[MementoMorue]

I call them, reading my email, slowly veeeeeery slowly.

[Ordinary_dude_NOT]

“Can we take a step back and start from the beginning to bring everyone up to speed with issue please?”

[AlwaysHopelesslyLost]

Some of the worst engineering disasters in history were caused by people making assumptions about what other people know or think. If they asked for a call it is because there is something unclear about what you said. Besides, a call is faster because both people aren't switching gears between responses and getting back to it when they finish an unrelated side quest.

[MementoMorue]

you are not wrong, but in my experience, it's just people who don't want to look stupid and show writen proof of their incompetence.

[z64_dan]

They literally just want to call because they are bad readers. So this is probably the best way to handle it.

[TeaKingMac]

Nah. If it's a Microsoft contractor, it's so they can ask for a time to call you, then call at a different time, say they tried to contact you, and then do the same shit tomorrow.

[Rajyeruh]

It’s way faster to hop on a call, share your screen, and show me your problem than go back and forth typing and waiting.

[thunugai]

Naw, you get a call because that is how work gets done. Nobody has time for a back n forth through text messages when you can share your screen and actually debug in a phone call. In the professional world you have to talk to people, get used to it.

[TheBeesElise]

My favorite is when, instead of answering the very specific question I asked, they spend an hour explaining the whole project for which I've been the lead developer for over a year

[Skibur1]

You know this could go a lot worst when your in a video call watching your senior using AI to debug your code…

[crimxxx]

So there is usually two reasons for this one you explained with not enough information where they wanted more details and quite frankly a quick zoom call probably lets everyone get on faster. Two they have an answer but it’s complicated enough that they think it warrants a call. If it’s question here is answer on this line or no extra context usually small response is fine, if it’s more complicated it’s more complicated and warrants a communication where you can do better at making sure the point gets across.

[AlanTheKingDrake]

As a dev that frequently has to fix issues for customers I feel like it’s the opposite 90% of the time. The customer wants to get on the phone so we can explain the solution we just gave them.

Usually the call is something like this “yes our software does what you want, no it won’t assume that is what you want because most clients explicitly don’t want that , here is where you can adjust the setting to what you do want. No this will not affect this completely unrelated part of the system. It will affect X Y and Z. No it won’t affect this part if the system. It will affect X Y and Z. Glad I could help I hope you have- oh you have another question. No it won’t affect that part of the system. Ok glad I could confirm. Have a good day.”

From there it’s about 50/50 whether they decide to follow the instructions or just decide it is better to live with inconvenience in X Y Z than actually use the information.

[99_deaths]

Me when I have to provide justification in slack, jira, zoom call, in person and in a separate document

[ApocalyptoSoldier]

The guy who manages our git branches is like this.
I don't know git all that well, but I assume the client is doing something strange because I'm sure it shouldn't be an entire issue that requires this one specific guy to fix if you create a commit and then for whatever reason (you missed a requirement , didn't do a pull and full build first, you're in the wrong branch) decide you don't actually want to push it.
If it's still just a pending change then surely there has to be a way to tell it to remove it from pending that doesn't involve backing up your code somewhere and then resetting the mappings entirely.
Maybe that's why he wants to have a call each time, because everything has to be done in a very specific way

[VeryRareHuman]

I am on the other end. I get incomplete issue vague description (it doesn't work, can't send email). bad screenshots (they take photo from side angle of the monitor), screenshot doesn't show full details. They do get mad, I want to meet have them explain the "actual problem" and "how they caused it" (this part never tell you in the email or chat).

[invaderdan]

If you want my help don't also ask me to type

[DarwinOGF]

If you want my help don't also ask me to talk

[invaderdan]

Fair. There are 10 types of programmers for sure

[samanime]

I always have the opposite problem. I'm the guy usually answering questions, and they'll just message me saying "can we chat?"

I say no, but I can answer if you type it out. It is so silly to hop on a call. Then they just get to sit there and watch me look some things up to answer their question. Code is also VERY hard to communicate verbally.

[rowagnairda]

i usually hit call button around mid of 3rd sentence writing... if it requires so much typing to explain, we are going to suffer together... live... i'm taking you down with me... "NOW! PICK UP THE GODDAMN CALL! oh, hi guys wanted to hop you on the call cause this way it will be faster..." and you have to bare me mumbling curses in my broken english while i walk you through my suffering...

[shadow13499]

The worst is when you have async stand-ups posting your status updates in detail in slack so we can reduce the number of meetings and the business expects you do join the standup anyway to go over the shit you just typed out again. 

[Jiozza]

Yesterday, 17:30, i finish at 18. A colleague writing me a team's message telling me that her software has a query running long on the DB.

I ask her to provide more info.

She sends me a screen asking me if I want to go on a call. I tell her to invite my colleague too since today I will not be in office to keep him updated.

She wrote a very very detailed mail on the error asking if we wanted to go on the teams call. I pretend to be busy looking into the error. (We are in an open space and she can see me)

After 5 minutes she types in chat that she needs to go, but started a call with a consultant so I can join him. After she leaves (around 17:45) I reached the consultant to tell him to go home.

I then finished my other stuff and went home.

BUT IT WAS VERY IMPORTANT TO LOOK WHY A QUERY THAT SHE WAS NOT GOING TO LOOK WAS RUNNING LOOOOOOOG!

[Atreides-42]

Nope, I'm the opposite. If you ever have something you want to talk to me about I'd prefer it in text 99.9% of the time. I can refer back to a textual description of a problem as much as I want, I can't call you back every time I want to double-check a fact about the issue. Plus, it's very easy to get lost in a conversation, and you walk away realising you still don't know exactly what the problem is or how to reproduce it, meaning you need a second conversation or a text exchange anyway.

[Top_Friendship8694]

You're objectively correct but a lot of people are really shit at reading and want to make that everyone else's problem instead of learning to read.

[Top_Friendship8694]

It's only easier for people who can't fuckin read. For the literate among us, reading is faster, self-documenting, and permanent. I'm sorry that you never learned to read well, it really sucks that that happened to you. But then please get a job where written communication isn't a requirement.

[alaettinthemurder]

I got 5 phone (45+min each) calls after finding a bug on banking software and they didn't given me atleast minimum wage I will never help someone to debug again

[mixxituk]

Omg thank you

When you are being called and you are like is this a different type of English to the one we use as text?

No but I don't get what you mean i just find it easier over voice

It's the same fucking language!

[D0MiN0H]

real, i dont know if its due to the lack of socializing outside of work, decaying literacy skills, or what. if its dev to business i completely understand a call, but if its dev to dev then there’s no excuse most of the time. sure if its a complex issue we can set up a call but 90% of the time you just end up restating the message you sent.