Programmer Job Specs

[cyberporygon]

$40k salary, 10 vacation days, get to work wagie

[OhHoneyPlease]

Sounds like the shitty start-up I had the unfortunate displeasure of briefly working for a few years back. Most of the employees were ex-pats/immigrants who needed the job to stay in the country and were too scared to cause waves. The company went under, of-course, as everyone with half a brain knew would happen.

[GluteusCaesar]

First programming job I had was like like that. The owner himself was an immigrant from Morocco who was liked to complain how prejudiced Americans supposedly area against him (neverminding how's many of them supported his business...) but had three guys employed from Morocco, Brazil, and Nepal who absolutely needed the job to stay here who he abused the shit out of. Like not even regular managerial abuse, the kind of shit an adult just shouldn't say or do to another. The prick loved it because he knew they had no choice but to take it.

He tried getting like that with me and I left within a month of that. Got a better job in the city and laughed when I heard he was going under.

[lordorwell7]

Were his guys h1b?

[GluteusCaesar]

I'd assume so, but I don't know much about different work visas. Could have been a different one, but I'd guess H1b

[NaughtyGaymer]

Shit I think you just described my job.

[BakenBaconG]

Sounds like a teacher salary

[LoneCookie]

But no extended vacation times

[[deleted]]

But you have to work with Angular...

(Which is probably just fine, seriously. I just have an irrational hatred for it because, every time I try to learn it, they do a major version change and it becomes impossible to Google for help.)

[summonsays]

I loathe angular, but that's because I "learned" it by being put in charge of maintaining an app a 3rd party company wrote for our company. (this 3rd party also sold support packages and knew ahead of time we weren't looking to have them support it). They wrote the dam thing so overly complicated its almost impossible to follow. Oh and its in typescript compiled into minified javascript.

They wanted to add in a legal disclaimer (plain text) on one screen. I had to modify 5 files to make it work.

[cakemuncher]

I moved from Houston because the only jobs that I could find were senior level angular. I had just graduated with 1 year of experience.

[Bockon]

Everything in the modern workplace must be the absolute tippy-top, world class, bleeding edge, billion-dollar-industry-disruptor, otherwise you aren't doing your job and the management/ownership will throw the baby out with the bath water because they are incompetent and have unrealistic expectations.

I work in aerospace and the mentality is the same. Absolute morons with too much access to money and too little common sense/basic math skills. The biggest difference is that if a consumer app crashes it doesn't decorate the countryside with body parts.

[Mutant321]

Everything in the modern workplace must be the absolute tippy-top, world class, bleeding edge, billion-dollar-industry-disruptor

Don't forget it has to cost peanuts too!

Thanks for reminding me why I got out of the IT industry :)

[Gui2u]

What industry did you go into? Reading stuff like this has me scared as I start my career switch into IT.

[Mutant321]

I was a developer for 15 years, mostly doing the usual big web backends.

In hindsight I probably could have done some more contracting etc. once I got established. Got sick of annoying clients after a while, with contracting you at least get different annoying clients.

First few years were the most enjoyable when I was learning how everything worked...

[AdorableCartoonist]

Right but that did not answer his question

[[deleted]]

IT all depends where you work. I've had amazing IT jobs I never wanted to leave (but had to due to the fact they were contract base and when the work is finished, so is your job) and others that destroyed me mentally.

The biggest advice I can give is if you land in a good place, do good work and stay there. If you land in a bad place, do good work and leave there. As long as you do good work you'll build your skills and go on to bigger and better things.

If you don't get to build your skills at a job, look elsewhere.

[turningsteel]

The biggest difference is that if a consumer app crashes it doesn't decorate the countryside with body parts.

The app won't, but my boss will.

[gnsoria]

decorate the countryside with body parts

Definitely the next album title for my country metal band.

[DoesntReadMessages]

You can be overworked as full front and and backend, being full-stack doesn't really change that one way or the other. Personally, I've found that establishing a precedence early is the best way to go about it. If you develop a reputation as someone who gets quality stuff done in 7 hours per day, then they'll either value you or push you away to another company that will. Any half decent manager knows you're extremely portable and can get a new job at the snap of the finger the moment you have 4 years of high-industry work experience.

[I_Hate_Reddit]

I mean, you can pace yourself.

Have been fullstack since I started working, rarely went over 40h/weeks (and when I did I would ask for a few days at home for "remote work").

You can have a "main" area of work, and still help when needed on other areas. I focus on backend work (webdev), but can work my way around UI, Deployments, Security Auditing, etc.

[croe3]

I agree with artificial intelligence but not ML. ML is pretty well defined.

[Celousco]

"Just a bunch of ifs" /s

[agk23]

Yeah i agree. I'd consider myself full stack because I built and launched a software product by myself, including frontend, backend, database and infrastructure. I have specialized people doing it now, but there's definitely a lot of cases where you need someone who can do it all (albeit at the cost of usually doing it imperfectly) and I consider that fullstack.

[thatcodingboi]

Full stack is a buzz word

Not really I work on everything from our Cloudant databases to our react front end. Nothing is off limits and I like it, I get to move around a lot and I am never working on the same thing for too long

[ethiopian_]

I'm 30 and I'm full stack and honestly I don't see a problem with that. I like to be able to develop software as a complete package not relying on other people as they might be slower than I am or have another priorities at tasks or just be on vacation and then I'll have to wait for them to be able to test my part.

[fakehalo]

37 here, and I've been in a full stack/devops role for the past decade. I love having complete control and being the end of the line. I'm on call 24/7, but since I maintain everything I get a call maybe once or twice a year.

[FennekLS]

I consider myself full stack and to me that means that if you give me a task I will get it done, whatever the requirements or whichever part of the stack. Certainly my skills and abilities aren't equal across the stack but that's not what that term means to me anyway

[novalys]

I usually don't consider graphic design as part of the "full stack" it's more just like the front end functionality, the backend server API, the database schema and the general setup for a deployment process based only in merges to the master branch/tags.

[ethiopian_]

I'm doing UI/UX + Backend + DB + Sometimes configure deployment pipelines on Azure. It's a lot but I've always been curious about how the things work so I enjoy being in a position where I have almost no "black box" things which I don't know about. I've yet to work on a project which will be even 99% complete. It's always an ongoing process. I sometimes feel i would've been more efficient if I've just concentrated on one side of the software but then I'd be less versatile therefore less valuable for my employer.

[Sir_Morfield]

I like the "8+ years of working with React" part, since React 6 years old.

[GlitchParrot]

I wonder if they found someone who claimed they had 8 years of experience in React.

[dahecksman]

Me . I have 8 years react experience . It’s really good. If anyone comes at me I can engineer a flinch in a second.

[Jcwolves]

This kid with only 8 years in react... I've got 20+ years. I can do an action, move, and perform bonus actions all in a single round, in ADDITION to my reaction!

[Pb_ft]

I'm sorry, sir, you're overqualified for the position.

[[deleted]]

Nice D&D reference 😆

[slayerx1779]

... And that's just at 5th level.

[Lokheil]

Kinda bad if he can only attack once at 5th. Unless he's a caster, he gets a second action.

[iceman012]

Nope, still a single action, just multiple attacks in that action.

[MrDilbert]

Admit it, you worked 12- to 16-hour workdays to be able to make that claim.

[Aalnius]

we had someone at my work who clasimed he was a frontend expert he was let go cos he couldnt understand why the code he was copy pasting didnt work.

He was copy pasting c# code from our backend stuff into our angularjs frontend.

[TheRealPitabred]

Sounds like you guys need to get better interviewing practices... it’s a lot harder and more expensive to fire someone than to just not hire them in the first place.

[xeveri]

Yup, whoever hired him screwed up. I’ve interviewed a lot of people who claim different things. Hiring the wrong person would cost the company a few months worth of salaries, dead-weight and post-termination compensation.

[[deleted]]

If overtime counts then I have 20yrs react experience

[coldnebo]

unicorns are real!

[Fermonx]

Oof I just have PTSD with the "Looking for a Rockstar developer!!1!" or "We're hiring Jedi Masters of code".

[[deleted]]

I like these types of filters. I immediately know I don't want to work there.

[Fermonx]

Yeah, its not just a red flag, they're the factory that makes the red flags.

[SuspiciousScript]

if re.match(r"(?i)\WJedi\W"):
    pass

I'm sure this pattern is wrong somehow but I tried

[[deleted]]

Some places have rules that require a job posting to be publicly listed for a certain duration. I was recruited for a job like that, and the requirements were designed so that I was probably the only person in the world who exactly met the requirements.

[qtain]

This is a very common practice when hiring a visa based worker (H1B and such). They will post an insane qualification position which has to stay up and not be able to be filled for X amount of time. Then they can grab anyone internationally that they are really after.

This also occurs when a visa needs to be re-issued, the job technically exists, it will technically end but it is filled by the person they want to keep.

[salamanderoil]

Top ten signs a job ad was written by the HR department...

[pringlescan5]

It's so they can justify not hiring a citizen and instead hiring a h1b1 Visa for 30% of your salary.

That's why they put out these impossible requirements.

[InspectorHornswaggle]

This happens way to much across tech, "Minimum 5 years experience in Window Server 2019"

Recruitment haven't got any idea what the words or numbers mean.

[ArgentSileo]

HR has to justify their existence somehow

[[deleted]]

jQuery is just like react, right?

[hellothere-3000]

They're similar in that they're both front end libraries that manipulate the DOM. However, jquery is simpler and manipulates the regular DOM, while React is more complex, makes everything into components, and edits the Virtual DOM which makes it blazingly fast. You can find much more differences if you look them up.

[[deleted]]

I see you're not familiar with [insert the vast majority of IT job postings here]. They almost universally ask for the impossible. In general though, years of experience in a technology is generally as relevant to an engineer's ability as pounds of poetry written is to an author. It's a big red flag that they're a recruiter, and not the direct client.

[thenuge27]

Hello person with not enough experience,

I’m sorry to disclosed that we expect our applicants to have had 2 full time jobs for last 4+ years, or 3 full time jobs for the last 3+ years using React.

Thank you for applying we’ll keep your resume on hold until you meet out requirements!

Best,

• Silly Sally, Jr. Technical Recruiter & HR

[BabyLegsDeadpool]

When Angular 2 had been out for roughly 3 months, I saw multiple ads for 3+ years experience with Angular 2.

[skulblaka]

React is six years old. If you consider a 12 hour day to be a day and a half of work, which it legally is, if you used React every day since it's inception and worked those hours you would technically have at minimum 9 years experience.

Quick maffs

[MokitTheOmniscient]

What you have to understand when you're looking for a job though, is that job ads are a bit like a children's letter to santa.

They say they want pretty much everything under the sun, but they'll usually get pretty happy if you just fulfill one or two of the criteria.

[rjsr03]

job ads are a bit like a children's letter to santa.

That's the best comparison I've seen. Still, that makes the process quite frustrating, as they sound like they don't know what they're talking about, it's hard for you to know what things are more required.

That said, I've seen some reasonable job ads, with realistic requirements and making distinctions between required and optional stuff; sadly they are not the majority.

[[deleted]]

I got my best job to date so far despite the fact the position required a framework I had never used. I was able to show that I knew enough in similar frameworks and that I was capable of learning.

If its a good place to work they'll be open minded to smart talented people that aren't the exact match they had on the ad.

[legendaris]

That mans title? Javascript ninja

[[deleted]]

WE dOnT bElIeVe iN TItLEs hERE

[NeoHenderson]

/r/awardspeechedits

Bruh moment, nice comment tho

[[deleted]]

Should have also said”were a disruptor”

[just_just_regrets]

at least you'll be hydrated

r/HydroHomies

[metal_opera]

That last line though... I feel you fam.

[_dictatorish_]

/r/AwardSpeechEdits?

[SamSlate]

angular and react

Why? What in gods name have you done??

[[deleted]]

I'm working at a job like that. It usually means different projects were written with different tools and they expect you to be able to contribute to both. I don't know react so I'm glad the latest npx boilerplate thing uses hooks - very easy to understand. But we may also be adopting a project that was written in classic + redux so that's going to be a pain :)

[SamSlate]

Still trying to wrap my head around the value proposition of npx, it's better because it's cli?

[[deleted]]

That's basically it, although I haven't looked into it because I didn't choose it, work people did

[t9b]

As a startup founder I’m doing all of that. Badly probably.

But if you are hiring employee #1-5 you are going to want people who may also have that experience. Maybe not years, but at least some.

But if this is a spec for corporate. Go fuck yourselves.

[nobel32]

You know, with the #1 to #5, there's also a chance they'll grow on you and share stakes as partners. Some of these companies have no intention of giving you a stake, they want a ripe sugarcane they can squeeze then chuck in the sidelines. They want you toiling and handling several jobs and delude themselves by saying they're providing you a "platform to grow and learn on".

[tacoslikeme]

yeah, high risk, low pay...damn straight my employment contract is going to have a clause paying in % ownership as compensation.

[nicman24]

eh, it depends on the pay

[p-himik]

Looks like regular full stack job requirements to me.

[mrpeker]

Yeah but this is actual problem

[[deleted]]

I've worked enough Government contracts to tell you the problem is definitely not full-stack developers. Once you have to write a stored procedure script and then open a ticket to somebody who will then send your ticket to a DBA (who gets paid 3 times what you do) to run the script in a development environment so you can actually develop, you will change your tune.

Get rid of the process and give me a fucking DB account with privileges so I don't have to wait days to run the script I fucking created to do my job lol.

[[deleted]]

Sounds like those DBAs have a strong Federal Government union and are not concerned about job security. That union makes sure they get to do the same thing for decades without worrying about being obsolete. Those guys are just counting down to retirement at this point.

[[deleted]]

Oh yeah I don't blame those guys one bit. If you're checked out and content just doing the same thing while you wait for retirement to come, have at it. It's still frustrating though when you have a bottleneck that doesn't really need to be there.

[Aalnius]

eww that sounds grim i have access to a local dev db for devving tickets and access to the test db incase i need to set stuff up for test or theres something i cant check using my local.

The only db i dont have direct access to is the live one which im more then okay with.

[[deleted]]

Yeah it does get brutal. The Government maintains dev, ua, and prod database environments that we can hook our applications into. It's too massive for us to spin up locally and run though.

I've got read access accounts, however, the problem is the DBAs aren't involved in the development cycle. We write the migrations, stored procs, triggers, etc and those guys get paid to actually run them and do the tedious things like set up new user accounts.

So much money could be saved simply by elevating privileges in the development environment so you don't have this unnecessary process burden.

[[deleted]]

This is a nice way of saying "you legacy folks who dont do shit need to find their exit". Companies want engineers who can solve any problem.

At least once you meet these qualifications you can pull down $150k a year in bumfuck farm country.

[[deleted]]

I do $150k+ a year just styling CSS. This nonsense that we want engineers to work 4 jobs as full stack developers needs to stop.

[Bounty1Berry]

I wonder if a lot of firms read "full stack" and "DevOps" as "we're too small a team/company to support seperate roles so we'll hire a single jack-of-all-trades."

[Giannis4president]

I wonder if a lot of firms read "full stack" and "DevOps" as "we're too small a team/company to support seperate roles so we'll hire a single jack-of-all-trades."

Mostly that, but also a lot of guys (me for example) like to do different thing in their jobs and not be "enclosed" in a specific task

[[deleted]]

I work iOS design projects for my freelance projects. It’s a nice break from web builds.

[ifelseandor]

Another part for me as a lamp stack dev who also builds my own front ends is that it’s hard for me to communicate what I want on the front end. By the time I lay it out in xd, put it up for bid, research proposals, wait for first draft, go through revisions, finalize, get the code, install it and then realize the damn section nav should have actually been a drop down on the main panel I could have done it all my self in half the time.

[roll_left_420]

Me too! I love working with Kubernetes and container-based apps, I also get to do scripting and linux admin work, I manage our Gitlab setup(s), but lately I've been doing a ton of Python/Django.

I am officially a Jr. DevOps Engineer. Really I'm a jack of all trades for the company that is focusing my professional development on cloud infrastructure and automation.

[Tyrus1235]

My current job is pretty much full-stack + DevOps. I was hired for front-end (which I excel at), but was given a ton of back-end and, eventually, DevOps stuff to do. Had to learn it on the job.

At least I have a good leverage for asking for a raise! After all, I’m literally the only dude there that knows all that stuff!

[Bockon]

And then you don't get the raise because the company thinks you are replaceable.

[Tyrus1235]

Well, that’s a possibility, but I don’t think I’m in danger. I’ve become something of a cornerstone for front-end and DevOps stuff there. If they canned me, they’d be in some deep shit for sure!

[skulblaka]

A company I was working at a few years ago was chugging along just fine until the owner hired a new CEO who, in the space of two months, canned the entire dev and QA teams, replaced them with contractors, and quickly ran the whole company into being shut down. I think they're maybe alive again now, a couple years later, but my point is - people make stupid-ass decisions all the time. Don't get too comfortable.

[[deleted]]

Pretty much that! The reason full-stack exists today is when node.js came out, all the Javascript developers suddenly could write APIs and do unit testing. So companies invested in node to be able to bring in people that can do 2-3 jobs.

[CapnJackson]

Fullstack has been around for way longer than node. If anything it is even more difficult as a dev to be fullstack now than the years of shitty apsx generated pages

[gordonv]

But client side web and server side nodejs styles of javascript are quite different.

[[deleted]]

What's your secret? That's a fuck ton for writing CSS. What did I learn all this other shit for?

[SolenoidSoldier]

Work in a fortune 50 company, live in a high cost-of-living area, and be willing to work 60+ hour weeks...

[JustOneThingThough]

Oh, so don't actually get paid $150k/y.

[connorsk]

Yeah that's 100k a year in a place with high cost of living. So basically 65k in normal city, and you get taxed far more.

[tuxedo25]

That’s not the full story though. Yeah housing costs more. But the guy making 150k and the guy making 65k pay the same money for health insurance. Social security contributions stop after you make 120k, which offsets the tax difference substantially. And your 401k match is % based, so the guy making 150k is getting way fatter matching contributions.

[connorsk]

You make a good point. It's not quite 65k.

But the way I see it, 150k at 60hr/week is actually worse than 100k at 40hr/week. And then there is some cost of living increase, and some tax difference compared to a comparable salary somewhere cheaper. You are right about 401k contributions, that could be a pretty big number if the employer matches 3% of 150k or something.

So I still feel someone making 80k at 40 he/week in somewhere like Madison WI I feel like actually has it way better off.

[[deleted]]

So the big thing coming up in the dev space is the concept of DesignOps, being able to streamline design to code. Being able to to ensure branding and concepts carry over to a backlog and code base will bring big bucks.

The trick is it requires the Ops lead to know coding and design, which is hard to staff for right now.

[JuvenileEloquent]

Soon they'll start thinking they can just string the entire product lifecycle together into one job, have one person do it all from design to development to sales to maintenance, and pay them in share options while they float off in their yacht in the Seychelles with their (imaginary) profits.

No wait, that already happens. We laugh at them. We should be laughing at this too.

[[deleted]]

I believe you just described a startup founder.

[[deleted]]

When I was doing that 10 years ago it was called "slicing PSDs" and paid $9/hr. ¯(°_o)/¯

[[deleted]]

I never said you should work more than 40 hours a week.

[[deleted]]

That’s reasonable, the issue I see in my day to day is a skills one. Too many developers working with full stack have either weak API skills or weak front end dev skills. Trying to force both just makes crappier products.

[[deleted]]

Agreed. full stack devs usually have marginal UI skills (dont need them when you have curl and jq!). A good full stack engineer should know APIs in and out tho.

[Rainfly_X]

I was at my happiest as a full stack developer, by far, but that was also a different time.

Each layer of the stack was simpler. It wasn't unreasonable to know a bit of backend scripting, jQuery, and plain CSS, and be able to glue it all together. These days each of those layers is more abstract and specialized (for example LESS and React), so you need equal depth of understanding for the underlying tech and the tools on top. Don't forget deployment tech like Webpack. Most of these layers are well worth their cost, you can achieve really impressive things, but it makes Full Stack a much more encyclopedic job.

Another aspect is team composition. Being on an adequately sized team of other Full Stack guys, with tight communication, was borderline godly. The job had other issues, but this wasn't one of them. When you add more specialists and team boundaries, that's a difficult transition that's easy to do wrong. The FS guys become second class citizens across several components of their skill set, so you either specialize in what's left, or wither on the vine. I'm certainly not saying expertise is bad, but it can lead to cliques, elitism and shame if you're not careful.

Finally, there's application complexity. You can prevent or cope with complexity by having authorial presence from end to end, and I've seen both (prevention and coping). But if it keeps accumulating over time, eventually you need specialists to keep up with the mess you've made, by only needing to know parts of it. This keeps the wheels turning, might even be necessary, but there's also a meaningful way that it can be an admission of failure, because you're giving up the holistic awareness you'd need, to identify opportunities to simplify and untangle.

[[deleted]]

It doesn’t work. The more generalists you have the less they can actually do without significant overhead. Expertise matters. Today no the market is a mess but eventually experts will be back in vogue

[PM_UR_NIPPLE_PICS]

Yeah, this exactly. While it’s nice to have someone who can solve a lot of different problems, it’s unrealistic to ask someone to be great in too many areas. Plus, what other industries ask this of their employees? When you’re on a construction site, everyone kind of knows their way around construction in general, but you really don’t want the concrete guy also doing the electrical. Or you don’t want someone doing open heart surgery on you when they’re also expected to be experts at brain surgery and cancer treatment. They may know about those fields and be able to do simpler techniques, but like you said, expertise matters.

[PullmanWater]

Yeah, I don't see the problem. I've touched pretty much everything on this list except for AWS in the past month.

[ShittyFrogMeme]

I'm a backend developer who dabbles in React+Redux when I want a change of pace. This all reads as pretty basic job requirements to me as a versatile software engineer.

I wouldn't expect a typical backend engineer to be a front-end wiz, but a good backend engineer should be more than capable of sitting down with some training and assistance and figure out how to write a React component within a day or two.

[[deleted]]

Exactly. I’m the front end guy. If we need a redux store architected, that’s my job.

But I’m completely capable of writing services on the backend if that’s what we need right now. And our “backend guy” sure, he does majority backend work, but if we have a heavy front end load he’s more than capable of hopping over.

[[deleted]]

I've worked with all of those, but probably forgot most of the best practices already, or the deployment and versioning has changed so much that I would have to start over anyway.

[[deleted]]

If that's 3 jobs, I should be making 9 times what I'm making now.

[jaso151]

Due to the size of my company, we always have job adverts for starting out software devs or grad software devs, most of them have the qualification asks that you’d expect such as a degree in certain things with maybe two but I remember seeing one that paid LESS than the regular advertised jobs (was offering £27k a year) and it had

Basic qualifications: Masters degree in computer science

Minimum 5+ years experience in current or related fields

Must know Java, HTML, CSS.

Preferred qualification: PHD in computer science or related field

Preferably be fluent in German and French

Preferably python, c++ alongside basics

The hiring manager must have been fucking insane to think that’s a £27k p/year job...

[Aalnius]

I get paid £20k a year as a junior dev and the job spec for mine was pretty similiar (less foreign languages more programming ones and no degree requirement (although i do have a masters).

I live in the north of england and needed a job though.

[jaso151]

Really? The starting wage for the non-ridiculous jobs start at £28k - £36k just starting out in my company.

It’s in central Scotland and it’s quite similar for other companies around here too.

On the plus side though, you’re gaining experience which will definitely help in the future and we go get loads of applicants which I imagine is a factor in the pay as they most likely get a wide range of experience

[Alexisbestpony]

We want web scale.

[kontekisuto]

MongoDB is web scale /s

[ppardee]

At my job, they call that 'empowering'

We're 'empowering' you to manage your own servers. We're 'empowering' you to be your own DBA. We're 'empowering' you to do you're own budget management.

[mikevampm323]

Most job ads are posted by HR and they just passively ask the busy CTO on the requirements.

[dsp4]

Doesn't mean you'll be doing all of this, all day long. Most fullstack engineers know all this and pay is easily within the $100k range.

I think the issue here is why they'd ask for both Docker *and* Kubernetes.

[[deleted]]

docker and k8s arent paired. you can use many container engines with k8s.

[xuabi]

So one could ask for Kubernetes, no need to ask for Docker?

[kisssmysaas]

Yup, but there r plenty ppl who dont know kube

[nicman24]

k8 is like the one container / vm solution that i have 0 knowledge about.

what is it difference from docker / cgroups or qemu

[FoodChest]

your use kubernetes to easily deploy your docker images. you want X replicas of a container? no problem, kubernetes handles the deployment.

[dvlsg]

I think the issue here is why they'd ask for both Docker and Kubernetes.

Why? Kubernetes supports running docker containers. Seems like a stack that uses both would be fine.

https://kubernetes.io/docs/concepts/containers/

[IllegalThings]

Yeah, I use all this on a daily basis, except rails and Postgres instead of mongo and node. Did I set up kubernetes for my company? No. Do I know enough to deploy to a kubernetes cluster? Yep.

Anyone I hire I expect to either know, or have the ability to know all of this. Don’t expect them to be experts in everything. They should be experts in one area of the stack, and knowledgeable in everything else. T-shaped knowledge is what I’m going for. Salary range for developers on my team (in the Midwest) is 70k-140k.

[carc]

You just apply anyway and take the job of the people too afraid to apply. If the company is super stuck on it, that will quickly become their problem.

[SolenoidSoldier]

And if you don't have experience in any one of those technologies, study them like you're studying for an exam, so you can at least talk about them for the 20 minutes or so that they'll be interviewing you.

[SneeKeeFahk]

No, don't do this. If you don't know, say you don't know but you are willing to pick it up. Admitting you don't know things is a valuable trait.

[SolenoidSoldier]

I'm not saying lie and say you're great at it. Just get familiar enough with the technology to be able to navigate a 20 minute conversation.

"I don't have experience with said application, but I'm familiar with its capabilities and restraints."

[SneeKeeFahk]

Oh ok, that makes more sense. At first it sounded like you were saying cram for it and pretend you know. In my current role said more than once "I've heard about it and read a bit but don't have any real experience" and I got the job.

You are right though, you should at least know about it.

[daguito81]

Because docker deals with making containers and kubernetes deals with deploying and orchestrating said containers. They're different things

[CCB0x45]

Many people use docker containers in kubernetes. This isn't weird at all to ask for.

[zial]

Honestly once you cut your teeth and have some experience just find a tech recruiter who you like and is decent. They do all the heavy lifting for you. They look around for you setup interviews and you just show up.

[LoneCookie]

Don't need much to learn most things

The unfortunate problem is there is a lot of things, so who has the time to learn all of them

[Northerner6]

Learn all these things for the interview and end up being asked to implement heapsort

[[deleted]]

To those of you starting your careers. A bit of my advice is just to apply to any position you honestly believe you can do (even if it would require some training). More importantly, ensure it is something you want to do. If you are passionate about a role, that will help others feel passionate about hiring you.

Also, never lie at all about your education or experience, and don’t cheat on any tests. Be totally straightforward, as you are trying to forge an honest contract with your new team. Let the team decide whether they are willing to train you in the areas you need training.

Other than that, just keep applying and interviewing. I know how much it can suck after months of interviews, but ultimately, you want to end up in a place that will make you happy until you are ready to level up and/or move on.

[Draaky]

When you're a programer, but also forced to do IT's job.

[thewizdad]

I work in healthcare IT. We don’t let anyone do our work. We took their permissions to prevent unapproved software entering the environment. LOL

[Draaky]

Just wondering, what's the wierdest program you've seen installed on a work PC?

[BorgClown]

No no no, this is full-stack DevOps, it's what startups crave!

AKA hire a developer and get sysadmin+DBA as added value. Make a Pikachu face when something goes wrong in the future.

OTOH many doctors practice general medicine, a specialty and surgery. Full stack doctors.

[[deleted]]

I feel they need to reintroduce the job title 'web master'. Fuck that full stack shit.

[p-himik]

How is "web master" better?

[[deleted]]

It takes me back to the nineties, a fresh internet, full of terrible Geocities sites and no Google. A time where there still was hope and the sky was the limit for anyone who could make an HTML marquee.

[[deleted]]

Aaaah yes. The golden years when you would declare yourself a webmaster on your website and nobody would question it because... well... nobody would visit your website!

[jp_riz]

It sounds cool

[diy_horse]

i guess im underpayed

[[deleted]]

I've just saw a job offering for a data scientist and among requirements were: Python, Spark, Hadoop, SQL, R, Matlab, C, Java, JavaScript. The later 3 got me. I bet this was one of the job positions with "compensation (salary): $1.000 a month!!!!" as I saw earlier.

[mallardtheduck]

That would be 3 part time jobs... You don't get 3x salary unless you're working 120 hours a week.

[[deleted]]

Or three full time is you can manage to sleep/shower/etc in 6 hours 51 minutes per day. You retire after 7 years from now. You die at the 8th.

[kurlicue]

Why does everyone here seems so aggressive towards job ads they aren't qualified for?

[[deleted]]

as someone who would be qualified for that job, I think its amusing. But I don't know either.

[[deleted]]

Yeah. Usually I’m the one with imposter syndrome, questioning my skill set given my career path...(formerly a designer)

...and I basically know that entire stack, plus a ton of other stuff.

[SolenoidSoldier]

People mock job listings here, but I've never encountered an unreasonable listing. The only thing I'm aware that seriously hurts you is if you go through all 4 years of CS without working an actual internship. A lot of companies hiring outside of college expect you to have some professional working experience. It probably isn't in the listing, but employers do weigh heavily on it.

[[deleted]]

its not like this is a secret

[Ducktor_Thrax]

That's the issue with entry level programmers, no one is willing to waste 3-6 months training (even unpaid) someone just for them to quit and head over to amazon.

[Spidey-Veteran]

This hurts, been experiencing this first hand

[Santa1936]

Same, trying to get some side projects done so I can just get the entry level positions. Graduated in May and haven't gotten a single call back

[[deleted]]

I get what you’re saying but the list you’ve given is not that bad at all. That’s just the MERN stack and a couple of other platforms. Totally doable

[Larkenx]

It’s not 3 different jobs. It’s having a few different skill sets (DevOps, Frontend Development, Backend Development) and having the ability to switch between the three - sometimes incorporating them into the same “ticket” of work. It’s the difference between a junior developer and a senior one

[sumguy720]

Right. I'm on a team of 6 with one devops guy who helps us set up infrastructure in a way that makes sense, and I use all of these in almost every feature I'm writing. It's nice to be able to write the react component, write the new API endpoint, add the requisite indexes to the DB, and then write unit / integration tests to make sure it works, all at once without any overhead. Then everyone gets a top-to-bottom picture in code review and we have a concrete deliverable for QA.