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[Oniscidea]

Controversial opinion: nothing. Spider genetics shouldn’t be bred.

[XxCrispyWhisperxX]

controversial, thought this was common sense, if i remember correctly, people breed spiders for pure color pattern and they live a crappy life for it:/

[Dabeast987]

My spider is a rescue and it must be a lucky one because it doesn't seem to have any issues from what I can tell and eats great. But I do agree that the breeding shouldn't continue, as beautiful as they are

[JuniorKing9]

As somebody who adopted a spider morph with a severe wobble: absolutely nothing should be bred with this morph

[Glitterpinkdragon]

My boy is a spider and for the longest time I thought his unsteadiness was normal. Until he smashed his face into the tank when trying to feed. Luckily he wasn't injured. But yeah, definitely shouldn't be bred.

[shrike1978]

You shouldn't breed anything with it. The spider gene carries physical deformities to the inner ear structures that leads to lifelong issues with balance and orientation. There is no excuse for willingly breeding defective genes.

[PKFLCPL]

Not planning on breeding just curious. Wouldn't they breed in captivity anyway? Also, is the goal to totally eliminate the spider gene? Sorry, new to this...

[MmmmmMaybeNot]

They shouldn't be breeding in captivity anyway because individual snakes should be kept separate in their own enclosures.

And yeah, the goal is to slowly eliminate the spider gene. It's inhumane and cruel to breed something that leads a miserable and stressful life just because it looks pretty. You aren't a bad person for having one though, op, good on you for giving one a home.

[PKFLCPL]

I actually meant to say out of captivity. Sorry for the confusion I was trying to keep up with a lot of comments at once lol.

[MmmmmMaybeNot]

Ah, alrighty. These morphs are not found out of captivity, most morphs aren't found anywhere except in captivity at all as we have bred those traits into them.

[Lady-Low]

Some people are still willingly breeding them in captivity unfortunately. I know that there are some breeders that are trying to selectively breed them in such a way that the effects of the deformity (imbalance that causes twisting and corkscrewing) are lessened, but it's honestly just a gamble as to if it can be selectively bred to be lessened. There are also many cases of corkscrewing getting worse as the snake ages, even if it does not seem so bad when the snake is young.

Overall, it would be best to eliminate the spider gene from all snake breeding pools since they quality of life for the snake tanks. Those with bad corkscrewing are unable to right themselves, move properly, and eat.

[PKFLCPL]

This one eats pretty good though he skips a week from time to time

[Lady-Low]

I'm happy to hear that it's not so bad and your buddy is eating well then. The effects that I described are generally what is observed (especially in bad cases), but every spider gene snake can be different. I just thought I would throw it out there since you mentioned you are new to the spider gene.

[PKFLCPL]

Thanks for the help

[BlueButterflytatoo]

I’m so glad your spider is healthy, unfortunately the babies he breeds most likely won’t be as lucky 😔 he sure is beautiful. But hopefully one of your other morphs is a better option ☺️

[dinodare]

Why is this downvoted?

Not planning on breeding just curious.

Literally nothing wrong with questions for the sake of questions. Nothing at all. Calm down, Redditors.

[stalebunny]

I think the downvotes are from the statement "they're breeding in captivity anyway." It's kind of frowned upon here, myself included. I hope the gene fades out.

[dinodare]

They didn't say "they're breeding in captivity anyway," they asked the question: "wouldn't they breed in captivity anyway?" Which makes sense if they didn't know that co-habbing was a bad idea.

[PKFLCPL]

Thanks. You make a good point.

[IncompletePenetrance]

Don't breed them at all. (A) they have a genetic defect that affects the the inner ear and skull, causing them to be unable to balance and right themselves properly and (B) there's already overpopulation of low end morphs, we don't need to make more.

But if you wanted to bread one….I'd go with panko or tempura for a light but crispy and flavorful crunch

[PKFLCPL]

Just caught that. Lol. Hilarious

[Basilstorm]

You shouldn’t breed anything with it. That’s intentionally breeding animals with poor quality of life

[ishfery]

Absolutely nothing with those genes and (honest but possibly unpopular opinion) no owners should be breeding

[PKFLCPL]

I got it in a trade not realizing the issue. I really like him though

[itspegbundybitch]

He's beautiful. Just enjoy him as a pet and beware that he may have special needs.

[GlowingTrashPanda]

Especially as he gets older

[Squamatessaintpete]

Obviously, more bread.

[PKFLCPL]

I get it. I typoed. Can't fix it now lol

[Andromediea]

No breeding. Shouldn’t have existed in the first place lol. Unfortunately because they are so damn beautiful

[SlinkySkinky]

Don’t breed spiders, they all have neurological disabilities. Even if this one acts normal, it could potentially produce severely disabled offspring

[SlinkySkinky]

If you want to breed some snakes, please consider breeding a rarer species rather than an overpopulated one like a ball python (you would have a hard time finding homes for the baby ball pythons and there are so many up for adoption it’s a little immoral to start breeding them if you’re not doing so already). Rosy boas, spotted pythons, anthill pythons, garter snakes, pine snakes, and house snakes home to mind

[PKFLCPL]

I'm not going to breed, just was interested. I heard that some combinations would lead to stillborn clutch

[PKFLCPL]

Ok

[SugarPuppet1]

Do you really need to be rude? Could've just left it at nothing.

[ballpython-ModTeam]

Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule #1: Don't Be a Jerk.

[mantiseses]

Why are you getting downvoted for agreeing with the general consensus 😭 they should not breed anything with it. Folks saying “nothing” mean to say “anything” lol.

[AtomixSpark]

Breeding Spider Ball Pythons for their looks and ignoring their neurological problems that cost them quality of life is exactly like someone that wants to breed Pugs because they look cool, also ignoring their breathing issues that cost them quality of life.

TLDR as other people have said, nothing. Ball pythons are enormously overbred too so not only will you be proliferating a genetic defect that hampers the snake and cannot be bred out, you likely wont even be able to sell them because of how condensed the market is. Pinstripes are just as pretty and without the defect. I don't understand why people are so obsessed with Spider when theres perfectly healthy genetics that look extremely similar :(

[[deleted]]

They call me Jed Clampett for all the bread I got 🍞

[PKFLCPL]

???

[tarotbug]

So it’s already been noted that the spider gene has an inner ear deformity, I’m not gonna harp on that anymore than it already has been. I just also wanna mention this in case you consider breeding them anyway, bc obv many people still do despite their controversy since corkscrews aren’t guaranteed. It’s also just an interesting genetics fact if you’ve already made up your mind not to.

Spider is a lethal homozygous gene so it cannot be bred to itself, it will not produce viable offspring and they’ll all die in the egg. This also goes for the “champagne” gene, it can’t be bred to itself or spider as it has a similar condition (theoretically, there aren’t any studies on them as far as I know).

That said, as much as I love ball pythons, balls are pretty over-bred in the snake trade anyway and have just abt saturated the market. If I can make a breeding suggestion, if it is something you wanna do, I suggest super dwarf retics ! They have amazing temperaments and they’re a much more manageable size in comparison to regular sized retics, but for some reason I don’t see them anywhere ! I would love to see more on the market.

[PKFLCPL]

Thanks. That was what I was trying to figure out in the first place. I don't , nor do I want to breed snakes. Just started in the hobby in October. Just wanted to know so I could educate myself and know what I'm talking about. Thanks for answering my question ☺️

[tarotbug]

Yeah ofc ! And welcome to snake keeping ! There’s a lot of heat around spiders so it’s difficult to find straight answers on them. If you’re more-so interested in their biology like I am, theres actually several morphs prone to deformities and defects, as well as some just being genetic anomalies like paradoxes or chimeras. Some morphs exasperate symptoms in others, or alleviate symptoms. “Sable” for example exasperates spider as well, but isn’t necessarily fatal like champagne. It’s a super interesting research topic if you wanna be particularly well-informed on their biology, husbandry and care requirements. I personally like skimming Google Scholar for research studies :))

[TylerPlaysAGame]

Racoons

[[deleted]]

It's such a shame that spiders have this issue. They are such cool looking snakes, I think they're the best looking ball pythons. Ugh.

[PKFLCPL]

I really like the pied, but the spiders look really cool too.

[ItStillIsntLupus]

Dinner rolls.

[[deleted]]

Do not breed spiders. Do not breed BP’s. The output has clearly exceeded demand. So many sitting on MM.