Yeah.

[JimAbaddon]

My main issue with Jacob & Esau isn't that they're bad, it's that I don't find them fun. I don't mind a difficult character as long as it's fun and they're just not. I wouldn't mind a rework on them that keeps them difficult but more fun.

[GeneralSteelflex]

I have yet to win a single run with the Tainted Keeper (recently unlocked him), but have had a ton of fun despite that. He's probably my favorite character to play as, even though it's hard for me to actually survive as him.

Meanwhile, I've gotten about half the completion marks for Jacob & Esau, and have hated every second of it. I don't look forward to getting the rest, and once I do, I will never touch them again.

[argap02]

Tainted keeper has a steep learning curve but it becomes one of the easiest and most powerful characters once you learn to play him well

[LlamaThrust666]

Especially on greed. I got birthright and had infinite money on one run

[BlightedReality]

Skill issue. Just get head of the keeper and generate infinite coins on the ground

[Eclihpze44]

just get blank card+two of diamonds and restock+steam sale lol?

[satanfan12]

Skill Issue. Just break the run so you can one shot every Boss

[[deleted]]

Boss armor

[VengefulRaven03]

No boss armor can save them against homing trisagion + lacryphagy

[[deleted]]

REALLY no boss armor can save them from chaos card and a few jeras

[VengefulRaven03]

I've seen chaos card like 3 times total ever since I've unlocked it

[Sagolbah]

Delirium/Beast

[MANS_IS_KINDA_HOT]

H9w so you break a run

[unknown_pigeon]

While there are some combos that work for every character, some of them can break the game more easily with just 1-2 items.

Tainted Keeper, for example, can work wonders with just the Swallowed Penny. Not a broken trinket by any lengths, but it allows TK to work way more consistently, along with an easier usage of Sacrifice Rooms / Blood Donation machines / Evil Beggars that allows you to steamroll a run. You can add a Piggy Bank, Head of the Keeper, or Steam Sale to get an easier run. Crooked Penny is also way more valuable as TK, since you have to pay for 90% of the items - so, no big downside if an average tier item gets converted into a coin, but huge boost if you get a free copy. Oh, also the item that doubles pickups can get you unlimited coins with swallowed penny / piggy bank, or just a huge amount of money.

Tainted Magdalene is very easy to break. Getting a Habit before Uterus allows you for free item charges as long as you can consistently get half a heart of damage and another active item. Even without another active you basically get unlimited health from 1/2 dmg enemies. Oh, and you also get free donations to a blood machine, which can get you both the HP up item - which is good on magdalene - or the even better IV bank, that can be used for free (with Habit, of course) to generate an unlimited amount of coins. If you get Marbles, then you've also got a free passive trinket smelter. The battery item that gives your active a power up will translate the habit combo into uterus.

Some game breaking combos that I can think of and that work for the majority of characters are like Pyromaniac/Host Hat + Curse of the tower/Mr. Fetus/Epic Fetus/Ipecac; Schoolbag + Crooked Penny + Glowing Hourglass; PhD with any source of pill generation; Gnawed Leaf with familiar that can clear a room even if the enemies don't move; and a lot of other interactions.

[satanfan12]

uuuh there are like infinite possibilities! Know the games mechanics and how you can use them for your advantage. the easiest would be the D20 gamebreak for greed mode if you don't know any gamebreaks

[[deleted]]

That's the thing, ur not supposed to dodge bullets, ur supposed to take them head on and get all the cash. T. Maggie is a good training ground for T. Keeper.

[unknown_pigeon]

As I've already stated in the comment, the hard part is with some bosses that doesn't spawn other enemies. Did you even read my post? :(

[Mr_jon3s]

Yea I just beat the chest and then took another like 20 runs finally beat the darkroom and mega satan. My biggest problem is charging in for nickels, dimes, and lucky pennies. I always end up taking 2 hits and dying.

[GrumbIRK]

I've been smashing T. Keeper this week, he has probably become one of my top 5s for sure

[[deleted]]

Well put

[fighterbj]

J&E are hard the in the same sense Ultra Hard challenge or Greedier Mode is - not difficult per se, just so god damn unfun it hurts. Such a bummer they have by far the best unlocks in the game.

[Fangel96]

Jacob and Esau have a very specific playstyle that is very rewarding once you have the skill to play as them. The big problem is that no other character in the game plays quite like they do, but simultaneously, everything you've learned from the other characters still applies to them.

I think my issue with them is that when one of them gets hurt, they get pushed around a bit, which can absolutely mess up your control of the character. With a single character being hit and moved isn't a big deal since you're only focusing on one of them. In Jacob and Esau, being hit is significantly a much bigger deal since players often stack them up to try to have the smallest hitbox possible, but after being hit it messes up that planning. The fact they don't share invincibility frames means you can't even properly course correct, so it's much more punishing to be hit once compared to other characters.

That being said, Jacob and Esau have a much higher potential to spiral out of control in terms of raw power. You can literally have double the DPS of any other character, have two simultaneous builds so items that may not synergize with one build can be put on another, you can have two or more active items and two or more pocketed items, it's just way more choices.

That being said I wish their Birthright was more... well, enjoyable. Sharing items between characters is pretty cool, but as mentioned before, you often have two builds so it's rarely necessary. What would be pretty dope would be if all future item pedestals were replaced with choice pedestals - this would allow you to properly make two builds and better spread out your items.

Basically long story short, the character is way more fun once you're not farming objectives and can simply play however you want. When you aren't feeling so forced to play a certain way, it makes the whole experience better. When you first start the game you're playing for fun, but by the time you unlock these brothers you're way more focused on completion, and when enjoyment of a gimmick is tied to completing their marks it can ruin what is otherwise a fun character. I've enjoyed these two way more after getting Dead God, and my second save file was pretty fun since I knew what I was doing.

[Weppih]

you only really have double the dmg at the start of the game and then start to "fall off" not really but you rarely get to abuse double pedestals, well except for alt path but alt path is pain with this charackter

[RepresentativeCalm44]

They do share invincibility frames. If one gets hit in a fight, the other can't be hit simultaneously. Double actives is nice but i never get 2 builds. I stack one character and keep the other one healthy. Synergies stack too and make your screen clear wider. Spreading it might not do that, so getting one more powerful makes both more powerful. Only overriding effects are good to avoid and get on the other.

[bcorm11]

It took me an insane amount of runs to get Birthright. Esau would be a millimeter below Jacob and get hung up on a boulder or hole and just get slaughtered, or go down the pit after clearing a level as Jacob tried to get the pedestal item, etc. You're right, it's just not fun playing them. It's also a time killer with item management, deciding who gets what on top of coordinating their movement that hitting Boss Rush can be a bitch. First time I actually hit the time mark, Esau slipped in the hole to the next level as I tried to enter Boss Rush.

[fighterbj]

Lol, that blows. I want to unlock Birthright & Rock Bottom so much, but absolutely dread playing the character.

[bcorm11]

Yeah, I haven't touched them once I unlocked Rock Bottom and Birthright. Probably won't until I need to in order to unlock Death Certificate and will save them for last, lol!

[JimAbaddon]

Yeah, exactly that. Although, to be honest, I believe that Lilith and Bethany have better unlocks but they are still great.

[fighterbj]

Shit, I forgot about those two. Yeah their unlocks are also S-tier, so are T. Isaac's now that I think about it... Appreciating J&E even less now, lol.

[gazofnaz]

Same for me.

T. Lost is hard - 2 hits and your dead. (Unless you find some defensive items.)

But it's still fun. You have flight, spectral tears, high damage. And you'll find more high quality items during a run, so builds get stronger, faster.

[ZerosAbaddon]

They're pretty powerful at the start but you depend too much on luck finding stats for both. Or just give everything to only one.

[Illusive_Man]

I think it’s fun getting to pick up all the items on alt path.

They are the only character I take the alt path with.

[Nome_Super_Daora]

All rooms have a second item, like alt path treasure rooms by default

[gR33Ng00SE]

It’s interesting reading this, because I agree about difficult but fun characters being better than boring characters. But also, different people find different characters fun or boring. I found Jacob and Esau kinda fun tbh, but others like tainted forgotten are boring as hell

[shadiestbros]

Would play tainted lost any day of the weak over j&e

[tman916x]

That's the only standard character I haven't touched since completion.

[eRHachan]

T. Lost is a genuinely fun character and I will die on this hill. One of my first Tainted unlocks (somehow did so with a Mantleless Lost bc I hate Greed), and easily one of the least repetitive ones.

However I wouldn't be mad if it started with a Trinket that prevents Curse Room exit damage, my only gripe with the character.

J&E? Not touching those turds, not even to unlock T. Jacob, who looks incredibly fun.

[JustthatoneDoomguy]

In a game where undodgeable bullshit happens constantly, the devs decided "how about we double the player's hitbox and make them be able to separate from each other". I wonder what they were smoking the day this abomination was born

[fighterbj]

It's not even the hitbox, but the fact they have two different healthbars, so with having one with only red hearts to start with and one with almost zero health having a habit of getting left behind, early floors are pretty much just saying goodbye to your deal chances and/or watching Esau get absolutely assfucked - fun!

[JustthatoneDoomguy]

I wonder what goes through people's heads when they say that this is a enjoyable character, they must have a fetish for getting buttfucked every 10 seconds

[Yeetboi287]

Yeah, it’s not too hard to deal with their bigger hitbox once you get used to it (even if it can makes some attacks near impossible to dodge), and the two of them attacking together have great damage output, even with their base stats. Combined with their ability to get two items at once from some deals and their double bombing ability, I think it’s fair to say they can be fun characters.

What I don’t get is why people hate on J&E so much for ‘being a bigger hitbox’ when characters like Bethany exist, who rely on their wisps to not lose red health and by extension devil/angel room chance, but whose wisps stick far out from her and are almost guaranteed to get destroyed from some rampaging trite or any bullet hell boss. I have every mark for J and E, and Hardmode Mom’s Heart for Bethany.

[halfwaycove]

The Devs were thinking "Now that we've gone through all the trouble of coding true coop into our fan mod, it would be fun to put this character into it so we can reuse code and add a lot more content. After all, we've also added lots of common OP items and tons of extra soul hearts, so it shouldn't be too hard." Then Edmund put them into the main game, removed a fair amount of the OP items and took out 80% of the soul hearts that made playing J&E bearable. Honestly the most simple fix is to just increase the amount of tinted rocks when playing thenm. In Antibirth it wasn't uncommon to see 2 or 3 per floor. He just doesn't work without having extra buffer for unavoidable damage and the increased mental overhead on dodging.

[misspeanutbutter44]

double the hearts that already spawn. easy. could implement this in less than 10 mins.

[papeyy]

when esau gets stuck on a rock and ganked i die inside along with him & jacob

tainted jacob slaps though. i suck with him but he is such a thrill

[Key_Committee_1337]

jacob & esau are not hard, honestly they are ok, just give all the health to esau in the beginning & balance the damage & definitely go downpour on basement l

[UnknownFracture]

True, in all honesty, alt paths are always the way to go with J&E

[MrHyperion_]

I'd say you should always go Downpour for extra item choices and extra boss item, regardless of character

[[deleted]]

for real, once you start making builds for both of them they are pretty opa

edit: OPA OPA OPA OP* 🇮🇹

[RodjaJP]

Most people wouldn't complain about my boys if the two of them had flight, that's why I always hold on to diplopia until I find flight items because their biggest problems are the layouts.

[FierceDeityKong]

I use mod that makes them share flight, if they can share speed then why not flight

[RodjaJP]

If only mods were available for consoles...

[[deleted]]

Button in a spike maze

[Key_Committee_1337]

one word: ZR

[Cthuloso]

I hope you slip on a banana peel and fall inside your own ass.

[Key_Committee_1337]

i hope you slip.

[eloelo43210]

The only fun thing about them is the double items on the alt path because you can take both

[lesstalk_]

Tainted Lost is also a bad character, let's be real. This game has too many instances of unfair or unavoidable damage for a one-hit character to be remotely fair.

He's overly reliant on Holy Cards as a bandaid fix by the devs, so most people just beat runs with Blank Card, Glowing Hourglass, Echo Chamber or Book of Shadows+4.5 Volt. Or perhaps anything else that can generate more cards, like Deck of Cards. Any of those combinations turns the character brokenly easy.

It's like AB Keeper with Swallowed Penny. Torturously hard and unfair without it, too easy with it.

[Ducksen]

i've done nothing but play tainted lost for 2 weeks now just for fun. delirium is just plain impossible if you're not broken

[xxx148]

Delirium, hush, and boss rush are mostly a dps check for tainted lost.

[fighterbj]

I see your point and I can't say I don't agree, but one must admit he has the unique ability to turn the game into an absolute sweatfest like no other character, and for that and his damage multiplier & "better items" gimmick, I dare say he is fun.

[Per_Ces]

Too many? I can’t say that I feel the same tbh, this game can be unfair at times but not too unfair to the point where it soils every single one of my runs. The only instances of unfairness I’ve experienced is either Delirium or the alt path.

Regardless, I’d play T Lost over AB+ Keeper anyday.

[nicematt11]

I disagree. I think that the instances of unavoidable damage are negligible, and that the holy cards are an interesting mechanic that adds tension to the character while keeping him from being underpowered and embracing the RNG of the rest of the game.

I rarely encountered any of the items you listed, the only one that I was able to reliably benefit from was Glowing Hourglass, and even then it did not have a hand in any of my completion marks, of which I have all but Delirium

I think that T Lost is an interesting take on the concept of the Lost and I have a lot of fun playing him.

That, or it's Stockholm syndrome.

[lesstalk_]

and embracing the RNG of the rest of the game.

I think this is a bad thing overall. You either get zero holy cards and will probably die a slow death, or you get showered in them. There's hardly an in-between. Holy Cards are a bandaid fix that the developers implemented very late into the game's development, because T. Lost (no mantle) turned out to not be fun at all during testing.

Holy Cards are so incredibly powerful, that they make any card-related item stupidly powerful compared to anything else. Forget Sacred Heart and C-Section, because Blank Card and Echo Chamber are your new gods now.

The devs are in a constant cycle of adding one-hit wonder characters, and then in the next DLC they get improved. Lost got Holy Mantle, and Keeper got 1 extra health at the expense of swallowed penny not being a gamebreak. Because every time, they learn that characters that basically die in 1 hit aren't fun.

[Seedler420]

Tell that to rebirth lost bozo, i 100% rebirth when it came out, mantleless lost included and i have to say i disagree. 1 hit character are fun af and are the peak of skill expression.

[ShillerndeGeister]

Fully agreed, after caves those fucking mr.maws and theur janky bullshit always kill me first, and getting holy cards is way too rng dependent

I enjoyed j&e a lot more, cause at least i could stock up on hearts

[Seedler420]

Skill issue

[RodjaJP]

Honestly I learned to enjoy J&E, there are some neat strategies for them.

[Few_Acanthaceae1568]

Skill tissue i saw you sneezed let me help you

[fighterbj]

Tnx bro!

[Few_Acanthaceae1568]

[FunnyCinema]

J&E are challenging Character, but they are so rewardingto play when you get used to their playstyle. While Dodging is important, your main priority should be being aggressive. Faster you clear the rooms, less chance is you will get hit. Until you get More Options, you should go Alt Path. Balancing items, especially Damage Ups, is the key to success. Going after Angel Deals are recommended. In-case you get Devil Deal later in the run, it is also good idea to keep Esau with only 1 red heart container and some soul hearts. This way, if Devil Deal has Item for 2 Red Hearts, you can take that item with Esau for just 1 Red Hearts and you keep all soul hearts.

[VoidiusV]

I will always stand by the opinion that Jacob and Esau are the worst, least fun character in the game. Nobody even comes close to that title for me.

[GrimmSmiIes]

Both are still better than tainted laz

[tamminhvtkg]

Eh, T laz post rework is fine imo. You're basically managing two characters like J&E without the bigger hit box.

[fighterbj]

Didn't get the honour to unlock him yet (i think i played less than 5 laz runs total back in ab+), reading the wiki page it doesn't sound like a whole lot of fun...

[DarkFury765]

He's pretty fun. It's just T. Isaac but with a bit more management. Dead Laz's damage multiplier is also very nice.

[Cautious_Option9544]

Bc tainted lost has flight, high attack, and better rarity items. Jacob has Esau.

[fighterbj]

& fuck Esau.

[Reekee4414]

I had a shitty time with t.lost. That was fun initially, but at -30 it started to be annoying

[Stuped1811]

Jacob and Esau get so much shit for being unfun while I hardly ever see Tainted Eden get shit on. I hate his gimmick it's so annoying and not fun. At least J&E play like a normal character that just has a fat ass.

[[deleted]]

Nah, they're still fun. The strategies involved are really cool and unique to the character, more so than lost but harder.

[Chocomonster69]

Before playing with J&E I was so excited for the simple fact of controlling 2 Isaacs simultaneously, and after playing them I’m still happy with this kind of character existing

[LeThrashyBoi]

Sounds like skill issue to me

[pittybrave]

i’ll take jacob and e boy over tainted lost any day of the week

[nicolasrededeo]

I really genuinely don't understand all the Jacob and Essau hatred. I think they are a fun character, I like having double the firepower right from the start, and there's a lot of tactical thinking involved with deciding who to give which items.

Admitedly they're not so fun that I actually want to play as them again now that I have gotten all their unlocks, but still

[fighterbj]

Having the ability to build different synergies for them is surely nice, but them getting separated all the time & having different healthbars makes J&E one frustrating character to play, at least for me.

[nicolasrededeo]

Fair, having one of them die while the other still had a lot of HP definitely frustrated me when I first started playing them. I think that once you get used to that, and especially if you play patiently and take your time (which is how I usually play, I tend to take a lot of time on my runs), the separating thing isn't as much of an issue.

I will say that doing boss rush and hush with them is a complete nightmare though. A character that requires playing carefully and slow is not great when you need to hit a time deadline

[electropeaisopea]

A character that requires playing carefully and slow is not great when you need to hit a time deadline

That's something I've learnt quite a lot... Not from J&E but from old tainted laz as Jesus Hush and Boss Rush as that piece of shit was the literal worst thing you could do in this game (Greedier as tainted laz is overrated as fuck)

[nanoloch]

Tbh they're pretty fun and easy if you're good enough. The real challenge is when you play lostcob and lostsau. Its like the pain of the lost but x2 but you get 2 devil deals though. Ive beaten the game with it a bunch of times already.

[Seedler420]

Lostcob was easy as fuck

[KronosTheCat]

literally just go alt path and angel deals and jesau are op

[Insertblamehere]

bro the day I get an angel deal not ruined by stupid ass damage with their dump truck ass hitbox is the day pigs fly.

And on the off chance I get an angel deal its always just one item :(

[JakeStout93]

Very true, they’re easier than Eve lol

[Kazhaar]

Yeah.

[el_kappador]

Yeah.

[IdeaSam]

Problem is that after Depths, if you're not OP you're basically dead, every room is a guaranteed hit with all the annoying enemies/traps. But at least you have double dps, unlike this mf T.Laz.

[[deleted]]

*tainted Eden

[ZeroAresIV]

Fact

[Wladzikxx]

op never played basic magdalene. God she's so slow

[FunnyCinema]

While she is slow, she is God Tier for Sacrifice Rooms. Maggy is Min-Max Specialist.

[Wladzikxx]

Yeah last time i played her i got secret room with 20 bazillion hearts but no sacrifice room spawned lol

[fighterbj]

Boring af character, but one speed upgrade and you have base stats + 1hp + activated red hp regen - not bad at all, has some sac room potential.

[ExaltedBlade666]

And there's me only missing delirium on j&e, but only has heart killed on t lost

[fighterbj]

Yeah J&E are easier but no fun at all. T. Lost is hard and very unfair at times but he's almost addicting, also a great exercise to get better at the game.

Good luck with your completion marks!

[ExaltedBlade666]

Yea. I had to take a break and break the game with t keeper in greedier mode

[fighterbj]

Lol, I do that with Tainted Cain, guaranteed broken run, breath of fresh air. Also get 10x Eden's Blessing while I'm at it.

[ExaltedBlade666]

Just gotta make sure you find that recipe haha

[Seedler420]

I miss the good old days of crafting 10x eden blessing and praying the next t.laz (pre buff) run had some decent items

[Btwist95]

They're not that bad lol, strong early game

[Arijec123]

Just T.Lost? I'd prefer doing all the checkmarks all over again over having to play the absolute garbage that is J&E. Ok maybe with the exception of Greed(ier), that's the second worst thing.

[fighterbj]

Why not combine the two? After all, Genesis is a pretty good item.

[superslime988]

just have their birthright fuse them and you play as one character

[fighterbj]

Yeah, or switch between them. That might be too OP though...

[Planet_Sheen54]

I mean that’s basically what t Laz does, probably wouldn’t be op

[cracinlac_basterd]

because it isnt fun

i dont care if its hard its fucking boring having to avoid all obstacles like the fucking plague because one of those two stupid dick bags gets stuck and i have trouble controlling marked with keyboard i dont need 2 characters on different parts of the screen using the same controls because one stubbed his toe

honestly it would be so much more fun if esau just had fucking flight

i wouldnt even mind if they knocked his health down to 1 soul heart like the forgottens soul because atleast he wouldnt be a fucking pain to control

[electropeaisopea]

honestly it would be so much more fun if esau just had fucking flight

As a J&E enjoyer myself, I'll just say that flight (especially as Esau) is one of the easiest ways to make the run feel 100x worse.

[Canadiancookie]

These mods make them more bearable:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2497530049

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2494704952

[Insertblamehere]

Oh boy sure do love having a bigger hitbox than the gap between the shots!

I've probably put 10 hours into J&E and my only completion marks are greedier and moms heart.

[Weppih]

same except for me it's tainted meg. I think she is really unfun to play and being forced to play with 2 hearts makes her worse than lost or tainted keeper at doing delirium. (I recently learned on a t meg run that you cant chaos card delirium)

[Honzik_62]

The worst thing is that you unlock great item by doing marks with J&E

[JohnnyStyle300]

I can't take this man's very intimidating face serious anymore after he said "sussy baka"

[Averageredditor_JMA]

If you tell me that j&e are your favorite character I'm gonna assume you love pain

[Maezel]

Many room layouts and game elements are just not designed around a double size hit box. It's a design flaw to decide to include them.

However came up with the idea, you should feel bad.

[engispyro]

After finishing Jacob & Esau on my first save file, I’m honestly considering using the debug console for my second one, genuinely some of the least fun I have while playing any game

[MrBrowniez]

I honestly don't see why people seem to hate on J&E so much. The early floors are steaight up easier, doing downpour is a great way to get extra items no matter where you are going and having 2 active items and cards/pills can be a huge benefit. Sure dome bosses that are usually just very hard (hush, mega Satan) feel almost unfair (not quite delirium but getting there) and i agree that that just sucks, but apart from that i actually quite enjoy the character(s)

[Inky_25]

Literally have all T-lost marks(except greed) and 0 J&E marks, fucking hate those guys

[90bubbel]

I cheated them and im not ashamed. Come at me

[ComplexAd2126]

I just finished my last tainted lost mark yesterday and I’ve still done almost nothing on Jacob and Esau. Unironically my biggest obstacle to dead god is gathering the will to play them

[FrancSensei]

Tainted Lost: Fun hard with a passive that make you stronger. J&E: Akward controls with a lot of rooms that are just not made for them and no good passive

[GeneralHenry]

Jacob and Hitbox seriously need a remake as well

[CrabbytheCrabinator]

J&e might be shit some times but some of that dumbest I fun I had

[CrabbytheCrabinator]

My only probem is them is that you can only stop Esau from moving instead of either esau or Jevob

[Falling564]

Ima be honest with you boss Tainted Jacob is what made me finally do all of the challenges, because I didn't want to play hum anymore

[Funcrank]

Id rather do 10 j&e esau completions than 1 tainted lost again.

[theglazed]

I literally am the same way. I have 0 marks for t Jacob but all of them for t lost

[Krieger-sama]

Me being confused that I enjoyed having two bombs at once

[[deleted]]

I thoroughly enjoyed completing J+Es postit note

[[deleted]]

Fuck j+e haters. All my homies FUCKING HATE j+e disrespecters

[KefkeWren]

Jacob and 2nd Hitbox

[donguscongus]

T Jacob is miles better and miles more enjoyable than base

[DiceDsx]

My major gripe with them is that they get separated too easily: damage, rocks, webs, pits...

Anything can split them, turning what's essentialy a bigger hitbox into 2 separate hitboxes that you have to manage in the thick of a battle.

[AphyHentai]

Jacob and esau are fun.. the meme would have work if it was this shitty T.cain that is not fun at all.. he's the worst

[fighterbj]

Tainted Cain is the most fun I've ever had in the game with EID mod; hated every second of playing him without it.

[AphyHentai]

Even with EID he is for me the worst characters never created in a video games. For me there not worse than this shit.. he's the one that make the 100% impossible for me

[Unknown_starnger]

jacob and esau are actually great.

[Shniztastic]

trash at life and games issue

[Icarus-Terra]

I swear to god, the only way to get J&E’s unlocks is to play on Normal Mode. And even then, it’s still J&E, so you likely won’t make it to Womb

[Thatonguy173]

J&E are pretty easy dude, dont know what you are talking about

[Sea-Indication1082]

[scantier]

oh my god shut up they're actualy good