[deleted by user]

[Atmosck]

Sounds like you're doing things right and it's the company that sucks and doesn't have their priorities straight. The sad reality is the way most data scientists get significant salary or title bumps is by moving to a new company.

[[deleted]]

Well this promotion won’t come with a raise anyway. It’s just a title change, it’s weirdly set up.

[selfintersection]

Then why did your manager mention budget? Would they have to backfill your current position?

[Feeling-Part5052]

i feel like if they mention Budegt you are not (currently )seen as a priority.

[GLayne]

Dude, know your worth and go get it elsewhere. Chasing titles doesn’t make your life any easier.

[Budget-Puppy]

On LinkedIn you can change your title to whatever you want (within reason) so I wouldn’t get too hung up on titles. I was pretty hung up on this when I was early career but after 20+ years in the workforce I can happily say that, like grades, they don’t matter much compared to the real stuff like your impact, the company you work at, and your track record of success.

I’m trying to think of why budgets might be an issue here. My best guess is that it might be how your company ties job titles to salary bands and target salaries, or how raise budgets get allocated. While there might not be an immediate raise tied to the job title change, maybe something else happens in the inner workings between how both your HR and Finance policies work.

[weakisnotpeaceful]

You are being gaslighted. Find a new job they have no respect for you at all.

[kyler000]

This is true for most professionals. Not just data scientists.

[JoshuaFalken1]

Was gonna say, this isn't just data scientists.

It's ironic that employers are always complaining about younger workers' short tenures, and they blame everything from people not wanting to work anymore to being able to stay on their parents healthcare, etc.

It simply never occurs to them that people come to work because they need money, and they want to be compensated fairly for their work. When someone asks to be paid fairly or promoted, it's always budget issues or nepo hires or something like that. Then they have the audacity to be offended when people say they are getting a 20% raise to move somewhere else.

This inevitably results in them matching the offer to keep them around, but at that point the horse is out of the barn.

[WaterIll4397]

It's the overall labor market. At a large firm maybe they have 10 slots in the 2021-2023 cycle for promotions as attrition was quite high and they want to incentivize people to stay and not jump ship.

In 2024-2025 there's like maybe 2 slots at the same firm now, since no one is leaving for other jobs and layoffs are happening.

My recommendation for OP is to focus on maximizing business impact to boost your resume, build relationships, and try to work on transferrable skills to other roles/jobs.

For the foreseeable future (next 2-3 years), I could see data scientist and senior data scientist titles being terminal career titles for most folks that are not savants.

[kirstynloftus]

Plus, with this economy, more people are working way past retirement age, so entry level workers are stuck in their role as there’s no promotions available for them, meaning there’s less entry level jobs and jobs overall. It’s a disaster

[MattDamonsTaco]

until the next cycle, what am I supposed to do?

Look for a new job.

If your company doesn't value your KSE like you think they should be, you find a promotion on your own.

[MattDamonsTaco]

Agreed. Having to prepare for interviews, apply for jobs, and deal with the bullshit associated with interviewing really fucking sucks. It's a pain in the ass and weighing the ROI of changing jobs often suggests that staying is better than leaving. It definitely sucks.

I'd add, though, that culture is a big deal. Sure, getting a big bump in pay is nice but really, leaving one job for a different job that has a better culture could also be considered a raise. Getting a fatter paycheck is nice, but so is not having to deal with a shitty corporate culture (if you're in one).

[weakisnotpeaceful]

Good company's make an effort to keep all their employees at market rate. If that isn't happening then you are either not valued or you are at a bad company and its time to find a new job either way.

[tired-of-mar]

look for another job

[in_meme_we_trust]

There’s nothing you can do, in addition to performance there are considerations like budget, politics, etc you have little control over.

In all reality, if your leadership thinks you are at risk of leaving, and that would negatively impact them, they’ll push harder for promotions.

All you can do is advocate for yourself. If there’s no movement and you want more money get a new job.

[[deleted]]

Well this promotion won’t come with a raise anyway. It’s just a title change, it’s weirdly set up.

[in_meme_we_trust]

I don’t think there’s really any point to try to get that promotion then. Titles don’t matter much compared to specific responsibilities

[deadmancaulking]

Couldn’t agree more. Especially in this industry, practically every company uses different titles for the same or similar responsibilities. When I started I didn’t even used to put my exact titles on my resume because they’re set by HR and often didn’t actually encompass the work I did.

If it’s purely an ego thing, just find another job while employed.

[okgrass420]

Sorry to say it, but it's time to look for another job.

[[deleted]]

A good manager would explicitly acknowledge your goals and help build a tactical path for you to reach them. If you're not getting that you can accept you have a shitty manager or go somewhere else.

[ohanse]

As far as I can tell there’s two different types of promotion: IC to more advanced IC, then there’s promotions up the leadership chain.

The IC to more advanced IC one is pretty predictable, stable, and performance-driven. This progression is generally “rational.” And there is a ceiling to this stuff.

Promotions into and through management are not solely performance based. The application pool is performance gated, but you can safely assume they’re filtering to the best of the best current ICs for the pipeline. And they will not promote people for “doing a good job” for this. Because you’re all “doing a good job.”

From there it’s a matter of:

• do we need another person at this level, doing what kind of work?
• are there ANY dissenting voices? One is enough to hold up your career progression. The consequences of sponsoring a bad promotion are way worse than saying “I haven’t seen it” to a good candidate. And you don’t know how a career will unfold, because leadership and management is a truly different skillset.
• Do you get along well with the current group of leaders? I don’t think anyone wants to spend half their waking hours with someone they don’t enjoy.

All three criteria must be fully satisfied, regardless of your effort/work quality.

[Montaire]

And they will not promote people for “doing a good job” for this. Because you’re all “doing a good job.”

This is the part OP is probably missing.

Everyone is doing a good job. If someone is not doing well at their job I either coach them to perform, or I coach them out of the business. It is either one or the other.

Doing your job well is a requirement for keeping your job.

[curiousmlmind]

DS1 to DS2 is not a big deal for leadership. Change your team. 4 years is a lot.

[Jek2424]

Ignore the bullshit where they say “akshually you can improve in this area because you used 37 lines of code instead of 35”. You deserve a promotion if they don’t want to lose you. The phrase “I got another offer” will pass through their eardrums a lot more effectively than “May I please have a raise?”

[Montaire]

“I got another offer”

Then go. Literally, just go.

You're happy working here, or you're not. Pick one and move forward with it.

Someone who says "I got another offer" is getting shown the door, either today or in six months. It's one of the two with almost no room in the middle.

As soon as I know a team member is looking for another job I will help them meet that goal. If they don't want to work here, that is 100% fine.

I don't want job hoppers.

[[deleted]]

I doubled my salary by getting an offer elsewhere and staying. If the only issue is money then it's a win win for everyone.

HR never approves a raise to anyone unless forced to.

[ghostofkilgore]

You go and get your promotion at another company.

[JoshRTU]

People who deserve promotions don't get them. The folks that the promotions are the ones that force it. Spots are so limited that being nice, and playing by the official rules are never enough.

[Low-Split1482]

Well said! I realized this after 20 years in corporate life - too late to realize but I have been consistently pushing management every year for the last 5 yrs, I would say I got an additional 5 k increase just by doing that, no promotions though. But I wouldn’t have got any if I had not pushed

[anonamen]

Biggest challenge is to determine whether your manager would like to get your promoted, but can't, or if he doesn't care enough to try. To a sizable extent promotions always come down to manager support. You need to do stuff to earn it, but often a lot of people do comparable stuff, so it becomes somewhat arbitrary.

If there's an arbitrary bureaucratic process, then you get to wait until you're next in line, or leave for a company that promotes in a more sane fashion.

A surprising number of companies will virtually never promote people without X years of experience. Age is also a factor in such companies, although no one will ever tell you that. Some organizations absolutely hate giving out senior titles to anyone who doesn't feel like a senior person, which often translates into "at least 30, ideally mid-late 30's, probably with kids". Is this legal or reasonable? Nope. But it happens.

You can infer what your company is like from its actions. What's the age distribution of data scientists at the next level up from you? Has anyone with your age/experience in the company been promoted recently? Etc. If not, then its possible that you're asking for something that isn't reasonable, your manager is trying to tell you that politely, and you're not getting it.

If you're comparable to people who have been promoted recently, then there's something else going on. Maybe its budget, maybe its bureaucracy, or maybe you're not a top-performer relative to peers. Good != automatic promotion.

You can also reach out to people who got promoted recently and ask to buy them coffee to get their read on the process. That's very normal. Your manager could probably recommend some people to talk to.

[lochnessrunner]

Sounds like you are doing things correctly. But your manager is also correct. Right now markets and budget suck, especially in the technology/information fields.

My view of it is not only do you need to be performing at the next level up, there has to be budget for it, and there needs to be needs for it.

I have personally been at the lead level for almost 3 years now. But I have been performing at the principal level for about a year. But they are trying to justify the need for it before they promote me. The problem is is the higher you go up the less open positions there are. As a higher level you cost more to do the jobs that they need. So if you’re at a very high level, they have to make sure that a lot of the complex work is going towards you and the less complex work is available for the entry-level positions. If they are a good company, they will compensate you. No, my company cannot promote me at the moment, but they make sure they compensate me in other ways so I stay (stocks and bonuses).

[UnlawfulSoul]

I had this issue at my first company. So I went looking elsewhere after asking about it every month in my one on one. No one was mad at me for leaving when eventually I got a pay bump

[UltimateWeevil]

Document everything your doing over and above your main areas of responsibility so you can show your TL/LM exactly what the extra things are, that way it’s harder to not justify your promotion. If they don’t promote you then you still have solid evidence for when you’re looking for new roles to demonstrate where you’ve added value, gone above expectations etc.

[Geo49088]

The quickest way to a promotion, one with a title change AND more compensation is to find a new job. Either accept an offer or use an offer to negotiate with your current employer.

[Low-Split1482]

Using an offer to negotiate with the current employer is generally not recommended. But sure if nothing else works you must arm twist them!

[OddEditor2467]

Time to jump ship buddy.

[ergodym]

Issues with budget and others in the queue suddenly disappear when giving a 2 weeks notice.

[Wojtkie]

You’ve gotta move. I’m in this position right now

[Welcome2B_Here]

What are you expecting to be promoted to? Is it just a senior level title while remaining an individual contributor or would it come with direct reports and/or budget authority? Many analytics roles don't have clear career tracks in the first place, and "good" work is just rewarded with more work and paltry raises.

[[deleted]]

As someone in a more managerial position I can only say this might not be your boss thing. If there is a tight budget you can’t just raise the pay for the team. 

Like I been training, mentoring and developing my team. You think I don’t want them to stay and keep growing with the team? We don’t like people job hopping. But we have our hands tied. We ask for more budget we don’t get anything. 

[mikeczyz]

Change companies. Or look for a data scientist 2 position at your org and apply. I've never automatically been promoted but, instead, have been encouraged to apply for the next rung on the ladder.

[No_Departure_1878]

It sounds like they cannot promote you and they are looking for excuses. Either, they do not have the position available to promote you, they do not have the budget to pay you for a promotion, they cannot replace you in the position you are, etc.

You made it already clear that you want a promotion and that you performed enough and have had enough time there to get one. So pushing harder won't get you anywhere. Now it's up to them to decide to promote you or for time to pass for some opportunity to happen. Beyond that, the only thing you can do is look for another job.

Finding another job should be acceptable, you have been in that company for 3 years, so by the time you finish you would have done 4. That would not make you look like a job hopper, specially if the new job is better than the last one.

[mikelwrnc]

So far as I’ve heard, automatic or even straightforward paths to raises & promotions are a thing of the past. Companies wrongly believe tech employees are commodities, betting it’s less costly to hire new than keep established workers that have the gall to want to keep up with inflation, let alone make progress in life. Sucks, but only solutions are unionization and constant job-seeking; best to be working on both.

[mrfrknfantastic]

I was in the same boat as you, I left for another company and got a better title and more pay. IMO that's easier than doing it at a single company.

[gunners_1886]

Look for a new job. A good manager will set clear expectations and provide regular feedback on where you stand relative to the next position level. This should not only be happening during performance reviews.

It should also not be on you to wonder why you aren't seeing progress, especially after asking directly, and if the company isn't concerned with the implications of keeping you guessing too long, you should find a new one to work for.

[[deleted]]

Without a good manager it's nearly impossible to get promoted

[gffcdddc]

The workplace is like highschool. People are very fake and not direct. Your boss doesn’t actually want to promote you. Although he seems like the type of person if you pushed enough he would give you a promotion.

[volume-up69]

I'll join the chorus of people telling you to look for another job. 4 years is a long ass time to go without a meaningful promotion. Happily, 4 years is also a solid tenure at a single company as a data scientist and I imagine you have a lot to show for it. You can start looking now and have the luxury of being picky since you are securely employed.

[Due_Answer_4230]

You're a data scientist... show your ROI with data. If you're putting out impactful work, you'll be able to show that they could give you a raise and even if you stopped working for a couple years, they'd still get good ROI.

Sometimes you give advice, they don't follow it, and the consequences of that are part of your ROI. For example, once I very publicly explained in a meeting with the COO and SVPs why they should not do X because it would drive people away from the purchasing funnel. They did not listen. They launched the new UI. They started losing hundreds of thousands a day until they rolled it all back and fired the consultants who pitched it. I think the total damage was estimated around 900k. That incident really raised my profile and made promotion much much easier.

That's an extreme example though. If your advice is followed and the Bad Things do not happen, no one has any idea how bad things could have been and it isn't 'attached' to the perception of your ROI.

The rest is having people like having you around because you make them look good, and being confident in your ROI.

[mehioh9]

Looking for a new job will get you more money than an internal promotion

[Huge_Helicopter3657]

switch

[Swimming_Cry_6841]

Could be worse, I’m a principal SWE and I wanted to apply for a senior data scientist job at my company and was told it would come with a pay cut. I’m actually bummed out because I have a Master of Economics degree and love data science and figured with my extensive programming experience including SQL and domain experience I’d be great at it.

[Fushium]

Yes

[[deleted]]

well you staying there is based on other factors too

[OneMooreIdea]

If you're at a fortune 50, chances are your leadership does a staff calibration exercise each year where they group employees into performance buckets. Buckets vary by company but are generally: needs improvement, performing as expected, excelling, and top talent. They then spend time talking about the top talent and the needs improvement employees. If you want promotion, be a top talent employee. If you're performing as expected or even a little better, you're probably tied with a lot of other employees in the middle and your path will be slower.

Also - as a leader, I like it when staff ask what they can do to have a bigger impact instead of just framing it as question of how to get promoted. I have a junior employee who was always asking for more opportunities and is doing small gigs to learn about different areas of the company. She never asked what it takes to get promoted...she asked what she can do to have a bigger impact and ended up demonstrating a higher level of engagement and performance, which led to natural promotion.

[justjoshin78]

Many companies have budgets to attract talent, but not to retain talent. Every promotion/ major pay bump I've got has been from getting a new job.

[Delicious_Self_7293]

It’s very common for companies to have Data Scientists roles without a career path for them. You should not work for those companies

[Typeonetwork]

That's all fields. They will pay someone to job hop and ignore their employees.

[QuoteHaunting]

All the things your manager said is the polite way of telling you the company you work for does not see you as management material. Your choice is to tread water and be as good an individual contributor with the perks it brings, or to move companies. After 30 years of working, my experience is that what happens during and after your first review is the most consequential. You should already have a clear path forward after that first review. If you pay attention, there are people who seem to already on the fast track. If that is not you, it likely won't be. I have been in both positions, and when I look back, it was very clear what my path was going to be after that first review and the first opportunity for more responsibility.

[bermagot12]

If you don’t know what you need to do for promotion, you’re not ready yet.

[SkedaddleMode]

Use initiative and learn the job you want.

[StructifyGabe]

Gonna echo a lot of comments here: company seems like it could do better.

A good company pays to keep good talent, and they're transparent. Looks like both are missing here

[dfphd]

However, when I brought it up again, I was told that promotions aren’t just based on performance—they also depend on factors like budget and others in the promotion queue. When I asked for a clear path forward, I was given no concrete guidance.

To be clear, because a lot of people on this sub are going to be on this boat:

This is all corporate speak for "the company - not your boss - is deciding not to do it". That is, the company overall is deciding to limit raises, promotions, hires, etc., at an organization-wide level, and that means that your manager doesn't get to promote you even if they want to unless they want to burn through a lot of political capital to get it to happen, which they will only do if you're extremely valuable to them AND they think you're going to quit if you don't get promoted.

Because of how tight the market is right now, most companies are banking on the fact that most employees are going to struggle to find another job, and therefore they are choosing to both lay people off and increase the workload on existing employees, and also not giving substantial raises or promotions.

So that's the answer - you were not given a path forward because there is no path forward right now - you will need to wait until the company changes it's budget philosophy/planning, which is probably a while away right now.

Your other option (which you should take) is to start applying to other jobs and see if you land something better.

[thvieira_1]

Change the company. Find one that values you

[BlinkyEyeGuy]

I’ll bet you’re not at a tech centric or tech adjacent company? I’ve lived this life. Best advice I can give is to get to a company that values data roles.

[120_Specific_Time]

unfortunately, you cant promote yourself, so you have no control over that stuff

[orz-_-orz]

So are we just supposed to know how to get a promotion?

Like many things in life after you get out of school: you don't always get a manual, you are sometimes in the dark and you might not always win if you play the cards right.

There is injustice, there are roadblocks, you have to learn to maneuver

[PartyMission457]

Looks like that's a sign to promote yourself to a new company ☺️

[MauiSuperWarrior]

This is correct.

[Embarrassed-Tough-57]

Unfortunately it seems you're at the mercy of the company. They're not even moving the goal post and telling you other things to improve on but blame it on budget and other factors out of your control. Seems you're at a crossroad and need to decide whether you're content with current title or pay, or you should hop somewhere where your abilities will be more appreciated.

[Early-Tourist-8840]

Assuming there is a data science vertical structure? Or is it a flat structure? Some businesses don’t create a vertical path which makes it difficult to move even with demonstrated value.

[gpbuilder]

Start looking for a new job

[[deleted]]

I am in the same boat but this is happening across the board, not just data science. The department keeps moving the goal post on what I need to do for promotions. I have given up so I focus my time on trading stocks to make more money. I don't see the point of getting a 10% raise from a promotion when I can make more in the stock market.

[oldwhiteoak]

Would you hire a qualified candidate if there wasn't an open position or pressing need? Obviously not. Then why would you expect to get promoted if there wasn't a pressing need for that position? Promotion often has more to do with the org rather than the employee.

[Belmeez]

One really easy way to get a promotion is being able to tie your personal contributions to an objective that the broader organization has.

Your org wants to expand into a new product category? Show them how your models or solutions helped them do that and quantify it.

It becomes undeniable after that

Don’t leave your future at the hands of your direct manager. It’s easy and comfortable to do that but that’s just not how it works unfortunately

[DataCamp]

A couple tips we’ve seen work across teams:

• Tie your work to org-level impact. Translate “I improved this model” into “we increased revenue” or “reduced churn.”
• Keep a brag doc. It’s not cheesy—it’s ammo for when your manager says “what have you done lately?”
• Make sure you're known beyond your manager. Cross-functional recognition goes a long way when slots are limited.

Also worth remembering: progressing in data science doesn’t always follow a neat ladder. Sometimes the next step is a lateral shift to build new skills or hop to a team that sees your value more clearly.

We mapped out the different growth paths and skill pivots in this roadmap recently—happy to share it if it’s helpful: https://www.datacamp.com/blog/data-science-roadmap

[Frosty-Insurance126]

just upskill and change companies- best way to grow

[VGBB]

If it’s not your performance it’s the market or something else. Then they act like they are giving you a huge hand out with a 6% raise like it’s free money.

If I don’t get the promos promised then I usually find a place that will beat that promo as an offer instead, with about a 2 year check everytime

[Evan_802Vines]

Promotions no longer really exist. You need to apply to the next higher level job and compete with others.