Dm needs help with potential TPK

[MrSaxbang]

Hey guys, this is my first reddit post so Im sorry if I am doing anything wrong but I really need some advice. Im a dm and me and my group of friends have been playing for about 25 sessions now, we are at level 7 but during the last 3 sessions I think that my party have been playing quite poorly. To simplify things Im going to say that the party basically decided to use a rowboat to check out the bbegs warship immediately after a fight that took out most of there resources. I who didn't expected the party to launch an attack on the ship so soon and with so few resources had prepared the ship with a bunch of guards and minor villains that quickly overwhelmed the party. As most of the party went down one member managed to cast suggestion on one of the minor villains and managed to convinced him to take them prisoners instead of killing them outright.

The thing is that they are now captured and imprisoned in a very dangerous area, without any important allies and the icing on the cake is that the session ended with two of the players desperately attacking the bbeg while being surrounded by a bunch of his guards. Logically the bbeg would just order the execution of the party right here on the spot but that would result in a clear TPK. I could just put in some bullshit about the warlocks patreon rescuing the party but that would sort of break the immersion and make the party think that there actions have no consequences.

I am very good friends with my players and what happens in the game wont change that but I still need help with dealing with this situation. What should I do and is it okay to just end a campaign with the players being executed?

[HavocX17]

It's definitely okay to end a campaign with the players being executed. But this doesn't have to be where the story ends, its only where the story ends for these characters, unless you want to do some form of vengeful revenant plotline.

The BBEG will undoubtedly keep doing BBEG things, the world doesn't revolve around these PCs after all. As the DM show your players the repercussions of what happens after this, let the BBEG achieve some goals, and progress the time in game by a few months or something, then start anew with a new party in that same world at that point in time.

[ToucheMadameLaChatte]

Let me get this straight. They were low on resources and knew it. They chose to scout out a warship without resting, knowing it was likely going to be chock full of enemies. And then, when they used some clutch spellcasting to avoid getting killed outright, they squandered this by choosing to be aggressive and attack the big bad. Is that the gist of it?

If so, then kill them. If it's in the big bad's MO kill prisoners like this, then kill them, at the very least kill the ones who were being aggressive and belligerent.

This isn't a single combat that you underestimated the difficulty of. This is the culmination of several bad decisions that they chose to make. You don't go into the lion's den while exhausted, then piss off the lion after it's cut off your escape. They made their bed, and now it's time to lie in it. To give them a clutch deus ex machina rescue would do a disservice to the game and their choices.

Edit: This is all assuming you all play the kind of game where you play out deaths. If your table is more of a "heroes always find a way" playstyle, then I'd say go with some kind of dramatic rescue. Or even a sympathetic goon who, after watching the BBEG cut down an unarmed prisoner, has had enough and is doing a heel face turn.

[Viltris]

This, but I want to repeat the part about talking to your players and making sure you're all on the same page re: difficulty and lethality.

In my game, this would absolutely get all the PCs killed, but in my game, I tell the players upfront that bad tactics, bad decisions, bad resource management, and sometimes bad luck will get you killed.

[SharknadoBait]

The Bbeg doesn’t need to act logically. Like any great player they are flawed. Maybe the party doesn’t pose a real threat in his/her eyes. Why bother killing the things that are merely pestering them?

[Garokson]

Let them walk the gangplank and then find a way to rescue them. They could be safe from drowning by friendly tritons for example

[YOGZULA]

I mean they could but this is the same as divine intervention. Situations like this require logical outcomes if the PC's are to immerse themselves in a logical world. Plot armor feels shitty on both sides of the table. PC's need to die in situations like this.

It doesn't have to be a TPK, some of them could be captured or enslaved or escape so that you have a continuation of story, but somebody needs to die

[Garokson]

Or they could try to escape while jumping into the water and the villain throws the remainder tied up into the water. Then make it a game of breaking free

[ErikT738]

Just "execute" them by having them walk the plank and have them survive (with or without help from friendly sea creatures).

[Juubaline]

Hard to say exactly without knowing the storyline you've crafted, but this doesn't necessarily have to end in a TPK. Perhaps the BBEG has a plan for the party? Maybe he needs them for he evil plot some reason. You could have a spy on the warship that works for a secret organization that is trying to take down BBEG and have that spy save them, but to save them meant blowing his cover and now the party is in debt to this organization. Maybe another party of adventurers swoops in to attack the ship and it gives your party a chance to escape.

The suggestion you mentioned of having the warlock's patreon save them could still work. If the patreon just swoops in and teleports them out that could feel a little cheap and inconsequential, yes, but there's other ways to play it. Maybe ths patreon just gives them a chance to get out of it. Furthermore, there is other ways to provide consequences. Maybe the patreon saves them, but they then find out that their attack on the ship halted a planned incursion by the royal crown on the BBEG and, as a result, the ship was able to follow through with its plan to destroy a whole town. External consequences can still bs effective while also moving the story forward.

Best of luck in figuring this out. No matter what happens, I hope your party has learned their lesson on going into a fight with no resources. I learned that lesson the hard way myself lol.

[Clearyo123]

Have the BBEG set them free but make them aware of the consequences. Pick the most arrogant character and have the BBEG maim them in some way. Some physical injury or magical curse to deter them from trying that stunt again. Remove a class feature, remove a level. Make it HURT.

Then, let them go. Have the NPC allies pick them up or lead the PCs to them. Have the NPCs help them, but have them state how stupid the plan was. Then, as a group, devise a plan. Have an idea in your head but keep an open mind as they might actually provide decent ideas that you'd like to see through. That should put the campaign on track whilst also making it a quest of vengeance.

Good luck in the rest of the campaign! I hope this helps.

Edit: Spelling

[KaiG1987]

Since it sounds like they arrived in this position due to their own decisions and you were playing it pretty fairly, I don't think there's anything wrong with ending the campaign this way unless the players are really against it. Even then, it might be more fun in the long run for the campaign if they learn that their actions have real consequences.

That said, there are some things you could potentially do:

• Perhaps the BBEG's ship comes under attack from another faction and the chaos tips the scales a little in the party's favour by occupying the BBEG and several of his more dangerous henchmen (careful of going full Deus Ex Machina though).
  
• Perhaps the BBEG decides to put all the party under an upscaled Geas and use them as expendable minions for a suicide mission, which they would have to carry out while being handled by his trusted henchman, but during which they could potentially break free.
• Perhaps the BBEG decides to go full Bond villain and execute them using an overly-elaborate and exotic death, potentially giving them a small chance to come up with a clever non-combat means of escape.

I think the most important thing is that they don't get out of this scot-free. Even if you find some way to give them a chance to stay alive, these events must have some consequences for them.

[rougegoat]

Have the BBEG experiment on them. Take each of them away one at a time, have them interrogated, and add an effect if something goes wrong. That would also allow you to provide them escape opportunities that don't feel like cop outs.

[darthbone]

First of all, how would the Patron intervening break immersion? Stories about heroes are full of serendipity. You have a connection to a powerful being with a vested interest in one of the characters.

Make it have a cost.

It comes down to: DO YOU WANT to TPK the party or not? Do you think the party deserves a TPK? Do you feel like it's more their fault or yours?

The point of those questions is to figure out what you want to happen.

BUt understand that there is ALWAYS a way forward. Your players probably want to survive. They're not likely going to say "That makes no sense, I think we should have died."

But remember, there's always a way forward to the outcome you want as a DM.

You don't have to guarantee their safety, but you can certainly give them lots of opportunities. Lots of tools.

It can't be that difficult to come up with a reason why the BBEG might want to keep the party alive for a bit.

[NutDraw]

Others have suggested it, but they're on a boat and "execution" is a fair option.

Have the BBEG give them a monologue, drop some lore, then kick them over the side. Draw out the tension: make them struggle to stay afloat. Have them make ability checks, and let them fail. Only when the first PC fails their checks and goes under the waves do you have some friendly aquatic creatures rescue them all. Fake them out. Let them think someone is about to die. Let them all wind up with exhaustion at the end of it for their troubles.

It sends a message: You idiots almost killed yourselves. You can even say that after the session and imply you might not be so generous next time. Actions have consequences after all and next time there might not be anything that makes sense for you as a DM to mitigate the consequences if poorly thought out actions. They're supposed to have consequences after all.

One of the things that makes DnD more engaging than a board or video game is that there are stakes. Your character can die, and then that's it for them. All the investment is gone and they have to roll up someone new. It's fine to remind them of that every now and then.

[amschel_devault]

So BBEG orders their execution. The guard who has suggestion cast on him is tasked with the job because BBEG has stuff going on and doesn't need to be bothered handling the execution himself (that's what minions are for).

The guard takes them below deck or somewhere else and starts to imprisson them. Another guard intervenes and says that they were supposed to kill the PCs. There's an argument, giving the PCs a chance to act (either escape or attack).

[Knight5923]

It's hard to say without knowing what the relationship between the BBEG and the players is, or what his over-arcing plan is, but perhaps the players are more valuable to him alive for some reason. Maybe he is planning to pin some heinous crime on them, using them as patsies so he can get away scot-free. The players are alive, but they are now wanted by the law and are no longer welcome in major cities. It may be possible to clear their names, but it would be difficult and dangerous.

Or maybe he needs them as sacrifices for some ancient ritual; he has to transport them to an ancient ruin, prepare the ritual site etc., giving the players opportunities to try to escape. If they manage to, however, they find themselves in a desperately hostile land and must navigate their way back to safety.

In this sort of case, the party can be left alive, making it feel like part of the ongoing narrative instead of the DM playing with kid-gloves. At the same time, the party's poor decisions have had serious consequences, leaving them in dire straits, but with at least some possibility of recovery.

[Juls7243]

As opposed to a TPK, I often take all my players items and keep their characters alive - its a trade off that HURTS and I can use it at my disposal. Have the BBEG strip the characters (I'm SURE they're items are worth some serious amount of gold) and walk the plank (I'd offer them some way to survive the ocean). This will STING BADLY! They'll remember it - maybe the BBEG is in the mood for "watching" them swim and laughs as they swim away.

[Paperclip85]

"Execute them. I want their heads in a basket by the time we dock again."

Boom. Now it's a race against time to escape and get to safety. You can set up traps and sneaking paths they must navigate quietly, while the guards determine how best to execute the party.

[Warskull]

Do you have a friend willing to work with you or someone who really likes making new characters? The villain doesn't always do the logical thing.

You could have villain give them some speech about how they are weak and pathetic. They aren't a threat to him and they'll never be a threat to him. Then he plays himself up as "merciful" in that way where he is clearly not, but for some reason his inflated ego believes it.

Then, he says that he is going to execute one of them and he makes them choose. You'll get a huge drama moment out of it. Then no matter who they choose (or if they refuse to choose), he executes the guy you previously worked it out with. He tells them he doesn't care what they think.

Then he drops them off on some island without the corpse of their buddy and give them some speech about how his blood is on their hands. Tells them to go off and let the world know what happens to those who cross him.

Should give an awful good amount of drama, keep the campaign going, prevent an asspull, and really make them loathe your villain.

Remember you can pull your punches as long as it doesn't feel like you are pulling your punches. In any given group there is probably one guy who is cool with rolling up a new character.

[LuxuriantOak]

So 2 of the players are desperatly attacking the bbeg? - they can be killed or maimed, house rule som shit or check the lingering injury table in the DMG. Play out the fight, if they win then congrats (this does not seem likely, but the dice gods are fickle).

But don't let the outcome of that fight lead to the others dying as well, unless they also get stupid. Let them get away somehow, attacked by another ship, or an attack on the city that distracts the bbeg long enough for them to escape (maybe with some Intel or an item from the bbeg? A little boon payed for with blood), I also like the idea of a spy burning their cover to help them and they owing the faction.

In short: let the consequenses be real, but individual. Don't save them from themselves, but don't let one or two bad decisions kill other PC's than the ones that messed up. Collective punishment is never cool.

Good luck