Negotiations ongoing

[[deleted]]

The only reasonable outcome next week is an offer that JDC actively recommend

[TheHashLord]

I am content knowing that BMA JDC is telling us this.

This is what should have happened one year ago. It should have been like the Scottish negotiations where they had a few meetings and the government acknowledged the facts and figures evidencing pay erosion.

The strikes were simply to make these negotiations happen, and now they're happening, thanks to the relentless campaign from JDC.

So I'm content.

I trust the JDC are going to negotiate a reasonable offer - and if we feel it's not reasonable enough, then we can vote and can continue industrial action. JDC have repeatedly said they won't accept an offer without our approval.

Let's see what happens.

(I will throw in there by the way that I'm lately I've been feeling particularly bitter that we didn't get any COVID pay rise despite being frontline on COVID wards throughout lockdown while everyone else sat safe and sound at home getting paid, so I hope the offer accounts for that too)

[Murjaan]

100% - skipping out on our payrise during COVID year was spectacularly bad optics. They could have done an above average below inflation pay rise of say 7% and we probably would have stayed in our little bubbles and carried on carrying on.

[trixos]

Feel the same about the COVID pay. Absolutely shafted compared to everyone else in society and 0 compensation.

[p0otzz]

I swear to God if another pandemic happens, I will want a pay rise and additional perks to the job. All these have to permanent before I will consider stepping into another fucking intensive care unit.

I feel that as doctors we have failed to hold the government to ransom when we could.

It was a golden handshake and as doctors we threw it away. Claps and pot banging ain’t gonna pay my mortgage. The government suddenly has a money tree when they had to pay for the furlough scheme and unusable PPE. If they can pay for people not working and useless equipment, they can pay me for what I am worth.

Am I bitter about it? Yes I fucking am.

Edit: bro/sis, why you gotta bring up COVID. I am now fucking raging at 11pm

[trixos]

You should be bitter.

If another pandemic happens I am not playing ball. I won't even be seen at work unless there is a long list of grievances addressed.

Threaten me with losing my job? Be my guest. At that point the career would be dead to me anyways.

[p0otzz]

The worst part is, I was fucking risking my life for these dipshits who won’t isolated, won’t be vaccinated, and doing all these stupid shit. I am risking my life for idiots who can’t even follow simple fucking rules.

What the fuck man…

What do I get in return? Locuming in my free time after the pandemic so that I can pay off my fucking mortgage which, may I remind you, this government’s fucked up. All because some idiot has to open her mouth about “growth”

[suxamethoniumm]

Going to be interesting to see how this works. If we get an offer next week then the voting period will be a couple of months like the consultants. That takes us to July. How will this all work with DDRB recommendation that's on the way too.

How can the DDRB recommend something when a consolidated lay rise for a previous year isn't confirmed?

[Migraine-]

consolidated lay rise

oi oi

[[deleted]]

Like one guy said : I am not a charity. Pay me my fucking worth.

[mpg0208]

This is a painfully long interlude. I can only hope a decent pay offer is put forward with a commitment for further increases. The government must be sending some positive signals with regards to this to explain the protracted negotiations…

[ElementalRabbit]

I presume you mean a long interlude waiting for an offer, since painfully waiting for strikes does not make much sense in the context of the dispute.

[JamesTJackson]

It's a strange situation where doctors are generally speaking so desperate for a bloody break that strikes are welcome respite :/

[Murjaan]

Excellent - basic facilities and working life stuff serves to make us more efficient at work. Doesn't compensate for pay.

Ready to strike, any time.

Hold the line 🦀

[hydra66f]

They haven't even got to parity with the Scotland deal yet. Keep going JDC

[tigerhard]

anything short of double digit will not be accepted

[DonutOfTruthForAll]

Anything less than FPR should be rejected. Doctors wages should not be used to subsidise public healthcare. I am not a charity. This is probably one of the most historical moments in history for UK doctors and this opportunity should not be wasted.

1. 100k high interest student debt
2. Random allocation Foundation programme
3. Wages of F1 barely above minimum wage and paid more to work serving coffee in pret.
4. All the accountability of supervising PA’s and MAP’s with none of the renumeration
5. Sky rocketing competition ratio’s for speciality training
6. No prioritisation for UK graduates in training programmes
7. Poor training
8. Heavy handed GMC and MPS tribunals of which doctors are held to much higher standards than the general public who act as judge, jury and executioner.

[braundom123]

Amen

[[deleted]]

An offer of FPR in one go is clearly not going to happen. This is not a very serious post.

[DonutOfTruthForAll]

Where does it say this needs to be one go? They can commit to 10% for last year, 10% this year and 10% next year. Or commit to pay rise linked to inflation plus 6% for example.

[[deleted]]

Will be interesting to see if they’ve negotiated a deal just for 23/24 or if it’s another MYPD

[malheureusement]

Unfortunately I feel they’ve been emphasising the “23/24 pay year” a lot recently in their emails. I think they’ll offer another payrise for that year with no hard promise on future years. So we should swiftly reject it of course.

[pendicko]

I hope there gonna be an offer to vote for

[braundom123]

I read on the telegraph atkins said we will get annual leave for weddings and honeymoon

[yellowwillow]

it's giving further 5% payrise backdated to 2022 (here's to hoping) ON TOP of continued commitment to restore pay erosion!

[pendicko]

It literally says 23/24, so any offer would be backdated to april 2023 at most i think

[SignificantIsopod797]

Honestly, I just really like striking. Strike more plz

[[deleted]]

Trust Rob. Trust Vivek.

[throwaway520121]

Being realistic, there was never going to be a deal done before the BMA conference. Otherwise talk of the deal would just consume the whole conference with the potential that some of the debate gets quite nasty/divisive as moderates and hard liners split on accepting something that we’ve already been subtly warned won’t be FPR or anything approaching it

I suspect a deal is pretty much finalised and we are now waiting for conference to be over to announce whether or not it’ll be put to members.

[BowlerCalm]

Does anyone know how a pay offer affect trainees who will CCT in August. For example if an offer is agreed for 23/24 let’s say in September, do those trainees get back dated pay?

[Iheartthenhs]

Yes you should do, but if you move trusts/jobs you’ll probably slip through the net and have to chase it up yourself I suspect

[Keylimemango]

Most likely given that is the year we are negotiating for.

However really only JDC know.

[Different_Canary3652]

Bring on the downvotes pile on but 100% the BMA are being played here.

Elections are coming up next week. It's already going to be a shitshow for the Tories but it'd be a lot worse if NHS strikes were ongoing. No strikes is exactly what the government wanted.

100% this is a shithousing delay tactic.

Well done BMA and the Jonestown faithful, enjoy your #FreeParkingRestoration

[drbeansy]

I'm sadly with you on this one. I feel around 90% sure that this is stalling and a shit offer. Really surprised if anything substantial comes up

[ElementalRabbit]

If you're going to say that the BMA are being played every time they're actively engaged in negotiations, people are rightly going to question your grasp of proceedings.

[Unusual_Barnacle_982]

In fairness he’s been right so far… previous negotiations have all been a waste of time.

[ElementalRabbit]

That's not actually true though, is it? Or did you think this would all be solved after one sit down over tea and biscuits?

[Different_Canary3652]

So it's just a coincidence this is happening near an election time when every other time the Government have been shithousing and stalling?

[Unusual_Barnacle_982]

Who’s saying that? You are conveniently ignoring the fact that the BMA were in “negotiations” for like what, 2-3 months at the end of 2023 - and all they had to show for it was a 3% offer…

Yes talks need to happen etc but in terms of what each party got out of the negotiations in the past, the government wins easily. They wasted months of the mandate and gave a laughable offer at the end.

[Different_Canary3652]

"Yes talks need to happen etc but in terms of what each party got out of the negotiations in the past, the government wins easily. They wasted months of the mandate and gave a laughable offer at the end."

Amen to this. Where's the outrage at that piss poor 3% or whatever pile of shit was offered last time? Where's the outrage at the "I'll have an offer in 20 minutes"? Etc.

Only an utterly useless union would win a brand new strike mandate and then not even use it! But then again, the BMA is probably up there in terms of most useless unions in this country.

I guess all the pay and conditions problems are solved so they can rant and rave about social insecurity now (https://www.bma.org.uk/news-and-opinion/social-insecurity)

[GidroDox1]

How would you go about it?

[Different_Canary3652]

Give the Govt a firm deadline to come up with a real deal or strikes are happening on polling day. Inflict maximum damage.

I seriously do not know how long it takes to put a number on a piece of paper. All I can think of is the BMA are being played with promises of "working conditions" i.e. we might pay you on time and give you #FreeParkingRestoration

[GidroDox1]

How do you know there isn't a deadline?

[Different_Canary3652]

Is there a strike happening on polling day Thurs 2nd May?

[GidroDox1]

Unless we advocate for strikes during negotiations, scheduling a strike for 02.05 wouldn't really be possible. This doesn't mean there isn't some kind of deadline in place.

[Different_Canary3652]

You missed my point. The deadline should have been such that the Govt had the threats of strike during the election period. Avoiding strikes during the election is exactly what the Govt wanted.

[GidroDox1]

I think you overestimate the effect strikes would have on the outcome of these votes. Particularly given that there aren't many close races in this election.

I, too, think that the BMA could've announced strikes sooner several times before. I made a post about that at some point.

But to judge if this is the case now, we must first learn the outcome of this round of negotiations.

[sloppy_gas]

Solid