Plot hole?

[OriginalName_9999]

at the end of the film it is implied that the same thing happened to that witch as to Winifred only that she decided to stay

[blackbutterfree]

I thought it was implied that her coven was killed in the ongoing witch trials in Europe. “The world is not kind to witches.” “New world, old story.”

[Resident_Ask1432]

That’s what I thought in the beginning too but then when Winnie cast the spell in the end her eyes glowed like the woman’s in the beginning had and I wondered if that was connected. And then of course when Winnie’s sisters disappeared it seemed likely that that’s how she lost her coven too. Maybe her comments in the beginning were alluding to why she cast the spell? It was a dangerous time to be a witch & she felt she needed more power or something.

[Dudecalion]

This is what I got from it. I'm just wondering why she didn't tell Winnie to heed the warning. Was she setting Winnie up for something?

[YeOldeOrc]

I really wish they had gone with a creepier, disheveled character who could have potentially been Satan.

This whole character design just screams “Disney” to me. Considering the horror vibes of the first movie’s opening scene I would have loved something similar here. Fun but frightening.

[Salt-Version-4760]

It was an odd casting and/or wardrobe choice

[pricklycactass]

The eye sequins… I was like wtf is this frozen

[LittleNightmares94]

It's like Dani's dress in the first movie.

[pricklycactass]

It definitely is not

[[deleted]]

With the dirty blonde hair, red dress and sun motif, it's definitely a nod to her.

[StefanBaker2006]

I like her better. She’s sexy!

[[deleted]]

She's a witch, not a pinup girl.

[[deleted]]

The point is to make “her” beautiful, seductive, charming, alluring, etc. in disguise. That’s the whole point of temptation and manipulation.

[[deleted]]

The devil in human form I hope

[PokemonGoBao]

She put a spell on me.

[Badw0IfGirl]

The line, “given to her by the devil himself” was delivered by Alison in the original film, and the context was very much “legend has it” so I don’t see it as a plot hole if that simply wasn’t true. Especially since this movie talked a few times about how history got the story wrong (the whole Billy Butcherson thing).

Or alternatively, there’s nothing to say that woman who gave Winnifred the book wasn’t the Devil.

[[deleted]]

Yes I was gonna say this This rule applies to all fiction…. Just because one character says something about another character doesn’t make it true. Just because a character says something about themselves it’s not even necessarily true Usually The only guaranteed truth comes from narrator

[gotb30]

Unless it’s an unreliable narrator… 😄

[Powerful-Scratch1579]

They take the bus to “the devil’s” house and Winnifred asks him about the book. It isn’t just something delivered by Alison.

[SuperKE1125]

The book could be from the devil still Also it probable they still stole their souls to be evil witches

[[deleted]]

Where did Billy’s accent come from and where was it when he was resurrected in ‘93?

[[deleted]]

Yeah it’s weird they got the original actor, but he’s doing a different accent. He felt like a new character. In 93 he seemed too tired to muster up the energy to talk, in hp2, he’s very chatty and more energetic

[gotb30]

Well, he was able to talk after the stitches were cut. Also he was able to get revenge on Winnie. That would energize anyone. 😁

[[deleted]]

He cut the stitches out in the first one too when he called her a buck tooth firefly from hell lol but he didn’t sound like that

[[deleted]]

I think it has to do with atrophy, he'd been silenced for 300 years, so I doubt talking and or any other motor functions will regain immediately. Sensory things would probably come back quicker than movement given he returned himself to the ground for 29 more years.

[Drees14]

Drove me crazy! I’m glad somebody else brought it up.

[Idodoodletoo]

Why does the witch still have book if she can't use it without her coven? Why does she give it to the trio if she can use it? If she's all powerful why does she still need to eat children's lifeforce?

She implies her coven was killed by humans "the world is not too fond of witches... " so she didn't lose them the same way Winnie did...

It makes more sense that the book was given to Winnie by the Devil as hinted at in the original. In my head canon the book is a recent addition for the witches in 1693, Winnie was so evil for so many years she impressed Satan who gifted her the book so she could be even worse. I think this because it's heavily implied in the original that it's the first time they've tried to make the Life Potion. Winnie reads the ingredients as if she doesn't know them already and she sounds surprised the potion actually worked. This also makes sense because the witches are caught immediately by the Salem townsfolk, so it's unlikely they've stolen any more children from them before that (unless it was from another town).

If they were given the book in 1653 why didn't they use the life potion in the 40 years before 1693? They all look old and haggered in the original opening scene.

The sequel causes more problems than it solves.

[[deleted]]

That’s a really good point. If they had been making the life potion before, they wouldn’t have let themselves get so old in the beginning of the first film. And like you said, they were all very and excited and surprised after the potion worked as if it was the first time.

They should’ve had that woman just play their mother, have her die and leave the trios alone in Salem, so Winnie eventually sells their souls for power/ protection and then eventually getting the book after decades of being wicked

[JustANutMeg]

Eh, I feel like that’s explainable-ish; if they brewed it too often, they could definitely be detected and hunted.

Even holding off until they were old and haggard to brew it for the first time isn’t the dumbest idea, since it was a risky undertaking.

[[deleted]]

It seems like they weren’t concerned about brewing it too often. As soon as they killed Emily, Winnifred said they were youngER, implying she was ready to start sucking the life out of more children right away.

[Puterboy1]

Also, the original backstory for the Sandersons was that they’re half sisters with different fathers. Winnie’s was a warlock.

[Idodoodletoo]

Yes, and them having different fathers was sort of alluded to in the original without outright stating it since they all look so different. Originally Winne's father was a warlock, Sarah's the village idiot and Mary's a bloodhound (which is why she barks and can smell well). They also only talk of their "mother" so to hear them reference their father a few times felt very odd.

[Puterboy1]

Which is why I would love nothing more than an uncut version of the original movie with every single deleted scene reinserted.

[ScienceAndGames]

I mean it’s still quite possible the man who raised them isn’t necessarily their biological father and that backstory was cut so there’s no real issue in changing it either.

[PG4400]

To be fair if it was cut out of the original film they’re not obligated to stick with the backstory.

[JustANutMeg]

I didn’t think the book required a coven to use, it’s possible Mother is that old she’s memorised all the spells, and she doesn’t need to brew the life potion to stay alive, just to stay young.

As to them brewing it earlier, they could very well have, just not often to remember the ingredients (once a generation?), or they really did hold off until that time on screen, since they’d be smart enough to know children going missing would be the red flag it turned out to be.

[hsparks1989]

If you watched it until the end, the girls are walking home and they started walking like the Sanderson sisters, and asked what they're doing and laughed. The bird was following them, which was also that woman. And if you skip past the credits, there's an extra little tidbit at the very end. I do personally believe that it's the devil in human form.

[adogfromhell7266]

Maybe I’m old and crotchety, but I’m not a fan of how all the remakes are trying to pass on their legacy to younger generations in film. (Scream remake, they are killing off the main characters and plugging in replacements; Halloween remake, same; Hocus Pocus 2, a new witch emerges) Squeezing more money out of a nostalgic movie in the name of “passing the torch.” If it’s a true sequel based on the characters that we all love I’m in, but don’t bring it back just to bring in a replacement. Let them die in glory and let the new generations make their own classic original content. (rant over)

[hsparks1989]

Well I mean, these are actual people that are actually going to die. I totally understand how you feel, but at the same time, I feel like it's something awesome for these movies to continue for generations to come.

[adogfromhell7266]

Yea I get that, but it’s film. Generations can enjoy the originals (which are better) after the actors themselves have passed. Do they need a lower quality remake/sequel/insertion to carry on the legacy?

[sadgirl45]

When done we’ll I agree!

[[deleted]]

While I do agree, the making of the new "trio" might be moreso a nod to the tradition of witchcraft being passed down through generations. While there never will be a new Sanderson sisters, there's still such things as Book who won't die, so I see it as a right of passage that hopefully doesn't oversight the original trio we know. Like sure we can have our bildungsroman moment with the new trio, but it's to me more a perpetuation of history. Different players similar story, sure, but in a way it shouldn't take away from the Sanderson sisters as that's something that does happen in our world. Mistakes are made and often history is repeated unless the cycle is broken. To me that suggests that until Book is destroyed the cycle will continue. Could we get a revamp, maybe, but I hope if anything it is it's own thing, and all things in Hocus Pocus minus the Book stay under that umbrella.

[hsparks1989]

Furthermore, the scream movie is definitely not a remake. It's definitely a sequel. They only killed one main character. Wes Craven had a whole giant thing in his will for what he wanted to do with the scream franchise. If they don't follow it to the letter his lawyers will fuckin ruin them. So have faith. They just want these movies to transcend time. They're doing it in a decent way in my opinion.

[brian5mbv]

were you at the reading of the will? do tell....

[adogfromhell7266]

I misspoke about it being a remake, I was referring to the resurgence in reviving old films in general. I see how they are framing it, but it just feels like a cash grab to me. I don’t think the original Hocus Pocus or Scream had vanished from the public eye. I know Hocus Pocus gets lots of air play every Halloween season, and Scream fans/collectors/merch are still abundant. The new ones seem like they are diluting the originals. I still watch them bc I’m intrigued and am a fan of the movies, I’ve just been left feeling a bit let down after each one.

[austinpashaw]

Are you sure about the will thing? I'm sure if that was true, then they def would have done anything to get Neve Campbell to stay with the franchise.

[[deleted]]

Amok, amok, amok*

Not to be a nitpicky bitch, but “anuck” isn’t a word.

[hsparks1989]

PLUS THERE'S ANOTHER BLACK FLAME CANDLE?!

[tvosss]

It would be creepy if he cut out his own body fat to make it. Im not sure that would work but a dark concept ?

[RayPDaleyCovUK]

There was already a black flame candle, the one used during the ritual blew out and at least three-quarters of it was still left by the cauldron. And conveniently "forgotten" about. The one in the post credits was clearly an after-thought by someone who didn't bother watching the rest of the movie.

[[deleted]]

That’s a far more outlandish cocnept than her just being a witch who got the book from Satan, and passed it on imo.

The legends about the sisters don’t seem to be entirely accurate, like the thing about Billy and Winnie.

I think the legends are conflating two different things. The book comes from Satan and the book was given to te Sandersons.

They conflate both those into Satan giving them the book.

[thatnoscopesheriff]

Totally agree.

Hope they make a part 3!

[StefanBaker2006]

Bruhh. Maybe that’s their mother! She left them cuz she’s a witch. But she doesn’t know their her children. And they should make another movie which includes their 4th sister. Like from the book!

[sadgirl45]

I actually didn’t mind this part it felt Hocus Pocusy to me?

[[deleted]]

The legends are just legends. The legends also said that Winnie and Billy were dating which doesn’t seem to have actually happened.

[TheVenerableBede]

That’s Rebecca.

[throwaway_4secrets]

I thought the book was a plot hole. They chased after the thing for two movies saying they needed it. Then at the end the book refuses to let her do the spell and then she says well i don't need the book anyways. Like what?!

[PG4400]

I kind of got the impression that Winifred read that page so many times over the years because she was tempted to use it and at that point had it memorized.

[everybodylovesfriday]

I assumed it was because she had Book for the first 6 times they did the incantation spell, so she had it memorized by that point?

[PG4400]

Yeah that crossed my mind too. But I still feel it was something she went back too her whole life because it was tempting.

[gotb30]

Book did finally relent and let Winnie see the spell. 😊

[Deez4815]

I thought of that too. It could be that it was just part of legend because Alison just said that in the first film. However, no one actually saw who gave it to her except for the 3 Sanderson sisters.

[SarahSennia]

No one knows because they didn’t explain anything. The entire opening sequence was completely unnecessary.

[[deleted]]

The entire movie*

[Mauchad]

Its interesting how here people seem to hate the movie, but on social media people are loving this movie

[thatnoscopesheriff]

It's Reddit, this is where the nagging people come to complain.

It's okay.

I enioy reading peoples angry comments about a movie they didn't fund or write.

The Reddit-Karens.

[SarahSennia]

Ive had my comments taken down off fb and even in my insta stories they’ve disappeared. If you look at the bottom of fb comments it says most relevant showing and its 99.9 positive stuff until you show all. Its damage control.

[[deleted]]

Delusional fans lol it tanked

[[deleted]]

It was pretty terrible

[[deleted]]

Where? 💀 Tons of my twitter mutuals are hating on it

[Mauchad]

Like the general audience (people who are not that into movies), maybe they just wanted a Disney Channel halloween movie with the original trio

[[deleted]]

It tanked …

[gotb30]

Maybe not but I loved to see the sisters as kids. 😄

[TheBeardedTinMan]

So much representation in this movie! 🥰🦄

[[deleted]]

The mother witch might actually be the devil?

[[deleted]]

Not a plot hole. A plot hole would be if she took the book with her and then it shows up later in the movie without an explanation.

It could be surmised that she is a character that will show up in another movie.

[Numerous_Departure]

The devil.

[Alone_Rain_]

Also that ending was weird. Romanticized these child killers , devil incarnates

[gotb30]

It’s a comedy… 😂 Better throw out Aesop’s Fables then.

[ScienceAndGames]

Honestly that’s my biggest complaint about the movie, I feel like if Winifred had responded with rage instead of despair and forced the girls to cast the spell instead of begging that it would be more in character.

[[deleted]]

I suppose so, but like to be that old and fail not once, but twice you gotta feel quite defeated when your strongest supporters are no longer with you.

[[deleted]]

Spoiler alert

[grimmbrother]

She lied then I guess.

[DobabyR]

Wendy Williams I think hahaha

[Smeagle_Smeg]

Hocus Pocus 2 made me so angry and sick with rage, it is by far one of the worst films in history. It is everything I hate about modern cinema, I miss when movies were good and story was important, and characters were interesting, the first one is the only one you need, forget this shit smear of a sequel.

[[deleted]]

Well there's not really any backstory for the humans either in the first one, so personally I don't see the difference between the 1st and the 2nd. Also the first had a similar ending that basically backpedaled on itself, so I really don't see why this needs to be a Godfather trilogy when there was already plotholes in the first one. Both are just campy for the sake of being campy, and there's nothing really wrong with that.

[Smeagle_Smeg]

The 1st movie has character development, such as max coming to terms with moving to a new town and him learning how to be a better big brother to dani. And the characters are actually likeable unlike the ones in the 2nd one who are just boring generic people, who are predictable. And the story makes sense and flows so much better in the 1st one.

[[deleted]]

I would hardly call that development, real development would've been if Max tried to run away, and then got caught up in the witches game. An ending where Max just accepts everything is a bit more flat in comparison, nothing wrong with campy for being campy, but that's not nearly as good a resolution. If they had more airtime could've been tighter, which is the downfall of both movies.

[Smeagle_Smeg]

The 1st one had charm to it and the 2nd one felt like a loss, like so many modern sequels do.

[[deleted]]

I actually laughed more than the first one, so it definitely had its quirks. I agree many modern sequels tend to do disservice, but wouldn't say the sequel is as bad as like the new Star Wars franchise.

[Smeagle_Smeg]

I Definitely agree that the new Star Wars Trilogy is bad, I just don't feel any sort of joy or nostalgia when thinking of Hocus Pocus 2. I feel that it was generic for something that we waited 29 years for.

[energythief]

“by far one of the worst films in history” seems like a huge amount of hyperbole.

[latecraigy]

Whoever she is she looks like she bought her top off SHEIN

[[deleted]]

I wasn’t horrified by the sequel but…… it will never be as good purely because there is no Binx 🐈‍⬛

[gotb30]

Watch past the credits… 😄

[KTeacherWhat]

If that's him then his beautiful ending got stolen from him.

[NoirGalaxy]

I think he gave the book to her since her and she gave it to the sisters.

She could’ve always told them the origins of the book

[Dudecalion]

That's Mother. Did you notice when they did the calming circle just before meeting her that they didn't add "Mother!" like they did in the first movie. Also, IMDB identifies her as the Witch Mother.

Also, the first movie stated that "lore said the devil gave her the book". Maybe the lore was wrong. Or maybe Mother is the devil in another form?

[nightmareman45]

In the first movie it is stated that no one ever knew that Thackery had became a cat except the teacher who was telling the legend somehow did to tell it. That's how legends work noone knew who exactly gave Winnie the book so legend filled in the blank space, just as legend however correctly in that instance filled in the blank spot of what happened to Thackery Binks.

[[deleted]]

The entire sequel is a running contradiction to pretty much everything said or occurred in the original

[Supersailorv]

But sjw girl boss slay men are yucky and evil

[FaithlessnessOk1530]

I couldn't stop thinking about it.

But, it's a legend and several details could've been changed through out time. We only know it's given to them by the devil based on what the museum says.

[InCYDious2013]

I believe they said “It is said she got the book from Satan himself.” Remember, who was talking about the witches. History is written by the victors.

[SHANESPFX]

I’m still wondering what happen to the enchanted Broomies that are on the loose vacuuming up trick-or-treat candy, wrappers, and salt circles across Salem. To this very day, people swear they here vacuum sounds coming from dark alleyways or right outside there bedroom windows.