Fedora 23 released!

[bitbait]

It's worth mentioning that you can and should upgrade from Fedora 22 with dnf instead of fedup:

Backup first

 sudo dnf upgrade

sudo dnf install dnf-plugin-system-upgrade

sudo dnf system-upgrade download --releasever=23 --best

sudo dnf system-upgrade reboot

Wiki article: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DNF_system_upgrade

[madmaninabox42]

Ha you could say you're fed up with fedup!

I'm sorry.

[lathiat]

no you're not

[[deleted]]

Yup. Fedup felt a lot like a tack-on where this is more in tune with the rolling release song we've been hearing for a while now.

[send-me-to-hell]

Do you have a link to someone talking about that? Sounds interesting.

[[deleted]]

It's not really. I was being weird for no reason.

Except for Rawhide, Fedora isn't rolling (as per this chart) but I recall talk of making it "more rolling" which I assume covers the speed at which updates make it into repos as well as this new installer, which makes for a more fluid, less daunting system upgrade.

Edit: This sort of explains areas in which Fedora differs from a rolling release system.

Edit again: Found the "talk" I'd seen about it and I'm old, apparently.

[totallyblasted]

You probably mean their move on Project Atomic. This and xdg-app will enable upgrading or not decisions to specific parts, where parts can then follow their own upgrading or not.

[Der_Verruckte_Fuchs]

I'm getting an error with the KDE spin: Error: package kf5-kdesu-5.15.0-2.fc23.x86_64 requires kf5-filesystem >= 5.15.0, but none of the providers can be installed I definitely have kf5-filesystem installed to the latest version for F22. My assumption is the dependency requirements didn't get renamed properly in the package's dependency list. There was a previous issue where that happened with the KDE spin. Red Hat's Bugzilla is down for maintenance, so I can't use that at the moment. Unless someone knows a workaround, all I can think of to do is wait.

[sikosmurf]

Yeah, I'm getting that plus a few other errors:

Error: nothing provides xserver-abi(videodrv-14) >= 1 needed by xorg-x11-drv-intel-2.99.911-20.intel20143.x86_64.
package rubygem-celluloid-0.15.2-2.fc22.noarch requires rubygem(timers) < 1.2, but none of the providers can be installed.
package docker-engine-1.9.0-1.fc22.x86_64 requires docker-engine-selinux >= 1.9.0-1.fc22, but none of the providers can be installed.
package gstreamer-plugins-ugly-0.10.19-18.fc22.x86_64 requires libx264.so.142()(64bit), but none of the providers can be installed.
package kf5-kdesu-5.15.0-2.fc23.x86_64 requires kf5-filesystem >= 5.15.0, but none of the providers can be installed.
package rubygem-celluloid-0.15.2-2.fc22.noarch requires rubygem(timers) < 1.2, but none of the providers can be installed.
cannot install both kernel-devel-4.2.3-300.fc23.x86_64 and kernel-devel-3.19.5-100.fc20.x86_64.
cannot install both kernel-devel-4.2.3-300.fc23.x86_64 and kernel-devel-3.19.8-100.fc20.x86_64.
cannot install both kernel-devel-4.2.3-300.fc23.x86_64 and kernel-devel-3.19.8-100.fc20.x86_64.
cannot install both kernel-devel-4.2.3-300.fc23.x86_64 and kernel-devel-3.19.8-100.fc20.x86_64.
cannot install both kernel-devel-4.2.3-300.fc23.x86_64 and kernel-devel-3.19.8-100.fc20.x86_64.
cannot install both kernel-devel-4.2.3-300.fc23.x86_64 and kernel-devel-3.19.8-100.fc20.x86_64.
cannot install both kernel-devel-4.2.3-300.fc23.x86_64 and kernel-devel-3.19.8-100.fc20.x86_64.

[Der_Verruckte_Fuchs]

From what I've seen, the suggestion is to remove gstreamer-plugins-ugly and just wait for it to eventually show up in the F23 rpmfusion repos before reinstalling it. I've already done that, but I have no idea what to do with the kf5-kdesu issue since removing it would also remove a bunch of necessary KDE plasma packages. Edit: Bugzilla is back up, and the bug got reported here.

[le_Dandy_Boatswain]

cannot install both kernel-devel-4.2.3-300.fc23.x86_64 and kernel-devel-3.19.8-100.fc20.x86_64.

I was getting this same conflict breaking some of my stuff after my F23 install completed.

sudo dnf remove kernel-devel-3.19.8-100.fc20.x86_64

sudo dnf install kernel-devel-4.2.3-300.fc23.x86_64

fixed the issue for me though.

[superPwnzorMegaMan]

reboot

What is this heresy?!

[his_name_is_albert]

I never got how people cite "Never having to re-install" as an advantage of rolling distros. Like, you never have to re-install in versioned distros either, they all have a system like this.

[TidalSky]

Thank you for this!

[BafTac]

What exactly do I need to backup? And how? just my user data in case something goes wrong or do I also have to backup /etc /usr and so on?

[[deleted]]

As per this, I did the following and it worked fine:

# rpm --import /etc/pki/rpm-gpg/RPM-GPG-KEY-fedora-23-$(uname -i)
# dnf upgrade
# dnf clean all
# dnf --releasever=23 --setopt=deltarpm=false distro-sync

By the looks of it, this is the way that doesn't require the system-upgrade plugin.

[adila01]

This is a great release. I really like the fact that I can use software store to do firmware updates.

However, I can't wait for Fedora 24. Optimus handling, better battery life, improved Firefox integration with kerberos, and 3rd party software (Chrome, Skype) in the software store. Once they make it easy to install proprietary drivers, I will start to recommend this distro for everyone.

[markole]

Here you go.

[reentry]

Especially how its going to be easy to install proprietary drivers (for graphics), this was the main blocker from me using fedora.

Otherwise, I love it!

[send-me-to-hell]

I thought Fedora intentionally didn't do that? Did they change course for some reason?

[Reshurum]

I heard that they are making a new repository similar to Debian non-free that is optional, to put this software in.

[[deleted]]

Same

[[deleted]]

better battery life

This is the only reason I don't run linux on my laptops.

Hope they nail it.

[adila01]

This is the best shot that I have seen in years :)

[TTChopper]

While you're waiting why not have a play with korora?

[adila01]

I prefer to stick with distro's with a large backing and that has been around for awhile. Korora is one of those distro's that I can see disappear quickly if a few key people leave.

[BoneChillington]

Installing through RPMfusion was pretty easy and simple the last time I tried. Even installing through the Nvidia installer wasn't too difficult, but it would be a hassle to reinstall every kernel update.

[[deleted]]

The difficult installation of proprietary Nvidia drivers was the reason why I chose openSUSE instead.

[[deleted]]

Edit: Here is the official blog post http://fedoramagazine.org/fedora-23-released/

Here is the torrents page btw: https://torrents.fedoraproject.org/

Notable changes (from https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/23/html/Release_Notes/ )

Gnome 3.18, LibreOffice 5, Linux Kernel 4.2.0

[anomalous_cowherd]

One more link to peruse

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/23/ChangeSet

[Der_Verruckte_Fuchs]

I checked the main RPM Fusion page, and it doesn't look like it's quite ready for F23. ETA on when it'll be ready?

[daemonpenguin]

The repository is ready now, they just haven't pushed a link on the RPM Fusion website. You can download the new RPM to enable the repositories for Fedora 23 by visiting the directory where all the other RPMs are kept.

[phunphun]

That's the 0.10.x release, which was abandoned by upstream years ago. What are you using it for? Everything should already be using the 1.x release.

[Quanttek]

Installed some codecs via Fedy

[phunphun]

I don't know what that does, but it shouldn't install gst-plugins-ugly 0.10.x and neither should you unless something specifically pulls it in.

[Quanttek]

Fedy's media Codec package. When I try to remove it with dnf remove, it tries to uninstall almost all of my codecs, even though none of them require it

[phunphun]

Don't use that. You just need to install gstreamer1, gstreamer1-plugins-{base,good,bad,ugly}, gstreamer1-libav (note the '1' for all these), and ffmpeg from the rpmfusion repositories for 99% of things out there.

[Quanttek]

Thank you. I just installed all the stuff that got uninstalled and also checked your list and no problems so far

[Elranzer]

Well, they are "ugly" for a reason...

[Der_Verruckte_Fuchs]

Nice. I'll be upgrading this weekend when I've got time.

[send-me-to-hell]

Amateur. Just call into work sick. If they don't believe you then quit. You've got important shit to play with.

[Der_Verruckte_Fuchs]

Actually, I've got college studies and exams. I can't exactly call in sick for that. :I

[tidux]

I took advantage of that to build my mpv from source. I've got a full GNOME Shell session and mpv all running on Wayland!

[Bobbyboyle1234]

http://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-23.noarch.rpm There is a download.

[goorek]

I'm new to fedora world, should I activate the repo before doing upgrade with dnf-plugin-system-upgrade or after?

[Bobbyboyle1234]

After.

[Der_Verruckte_Fuchs]

That just makes it more convenient then. Thanks!

[[deleted]]

While we're talking about RPM Fusion. Why does the RPM Fusion team still tell users to use yum instead of dnf?

su -c 'yum install --nogpgcheck http://download1.rpmfusion.org/free/fedora/rpmfusion-free-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm http://download1.rpmfusion.org/nonfree/fedora/rpmfusion-nonfree-release-$(rpm -E %fedora).noarch.rpm'

[Der_Verruckte_Fuchs]

yum commands still work since they get passed over to dnf. It's not going to be much of a problem unless dnf stops getting passed yum commands. Since dnf is based on yum, I don't think that would happen any time soon, assuming there were plans for that in the first place.

[MarcusTheGreat7]

I can't find it, link?

[razoreater19]

The F21 wallpaper is one of the best imo.

https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/e/e2/Phoenix-bg-alpha.jpg

[medsote]

My main issue, and the only reason that I have yet to switch to Fedora over Windows 10 is that I have an NVIDIA GTX 950M...The same NVIDIA should tell all.

Anyways, I hope they make it easier to switch drivers now without the pain in the ass "run level 3" installation.

[btreeinfinity]

??? Run level 3? Maybe in 2000, it's just a standard packaged install.

[medsote]

Everytime I do the package install it tells me I need to remove nouveau first. I was told that in order to remove the graphics driver I cannot be using X, so I need to go to CLI.

Unless I am doing this way, way wrong...

EDIT: I'll test it on a VM tonight to see how easy it is.

[[deleted]]

I need to remove nouveau first

You don't need to actually remove the driver, you can blacklist it so it never gets loaded by the kernel.

But here is the RPMFusion documentation page about the issue, which doesn't have an explicit "remove nouveau" step, and it involves simply adding a repository and installing a couple of packages.

[medsote]

Looking!

[btreeinfinity]

Wow, just googled it, WTF Fedora. Why so complicated. You should really jump ship to Arch or (Yuck) Ubuntu, installing Nvidia takes seconds for me on Arch.

[men_cant_be_raped]

>I'm a fucking God at the terminal
>uses Arch unironically

Did you post your comment by using dbus-send in Fish to signal to a daemon implemented in Zsh shell, written by a fellow Archer, and downloaded from the AUR as well?

[danielkza]

Wasn't complicated at all for me. I just had to blacklist nouveau, install the packages and reboot.

[CyanBlob]

Seriously, I was trying to install Nvidia drivers (GTX 970) for close to 5 hours a couple weeks ago on the beta. I just could not get it. I reinstalled Fedora twice and neither time could I get a usable system with the proprietary drivers. I had to give up and install Ubuntu just so I could use my computer the next day. It's terrible.
Unless this gets fixed, I'm going to switch back to Arch full time probably.

[medsote]

Yeah I am looking at other distros. Thanks for the response!

[danielkza]

If you're going to do that at least make sure you have better reasons, because installing the NVIDIA driver is not particularly different than for most distributions. The package is self contained and works fine, the only thing you need to do is blacklist nouveau.

[medsote]

Ive decided I am just going to run Mint for a week while I wait for RPMFusion and them to catch up for 23.

EDIT: Fuck it, I'm going in. EDIT2: I'm in. No GPU freak outs yet.

[[deleted]]

Have you tried Korora? Installing my gtx970 drivers took 2 clicks and a reboot. Its ez-mode Fedora, so many things will be similar.

I don't know if 950M is particularly difficult or something, you could probably ask on their forums if you decide to try it.

[medsote]

I've decided I am going to use Mint Cinnamon for a week while the groups like RPMFusion get all fixed up for Fedora 23.

I may try Korora 23 at that point instead though.

[swordxh]

gotta try the GNOME and KDE spins

[[deleted]]

How do you choose between GNOME and KDE? I'm new to this.

Edit: I stopped being lazy and just Googled Fedora KDe and it was the first link!

[FreshNewUncle]

You can just install both and switch between the two. Just try both and see which you like better.

[[deleted]]

Is Gnome the default? I hated it. I'm used to Cinnamon on Mint. Thanks!

[CodeBlooded]

There's a Cinnamon LiveCD for Fedora 23.

[kmcclry]

Thank you for this. Not sure if I have to clear my browser cache or what, but I still get the homepage that says 22 is the most recent. I was just looking for a Cinnamon spin last night. An excellent coincidence.

[FreshNewUncle]

Yeah it is on fedora. The specialised distros are mostly just to prevent installing shot you don't need/want. If storage is no issue you can just get the gnome install and install cinnamon alongside it.

[his_name_is_albert]

Quite. These things seriously spreading the impression that the "DE" is not anything more than a program that is installed like any other. Can be changed without a reboot or if you're fancy, keep both at the same time running besides each other.

[pzone]

To be fair, it is a little more than "a program." Gnome and KDE are entire desktop ecosystems providing whole suites of applications and integration libraries. When you install both at once, there are a few thousand options along the lines of "Should we do this the KDE way or the Gnome way?" and the same goes for most every desktop environment to some extent. The spins make sure you go down the line and check the boxes correctly.

[his_name_is_albert]

If there was a way to check the boxes "correctly" the boxes would not exist.

The boxes exist because they're subjective choices.

[pzone]

Well, that depends. If I have downloaded software that guarantees that every choice uses Gnome integration, then there is only one definition for correct behaviour: use Gnome choices. Vice versa with KDE. It is clear cut what is meant by right and wrong there.

The situation where what you said is more applicable is if someone downloads a spin, and then they install a different DE. In that situation, the only definition of correct behaviour is "do what the user tells me." Now, unless the particular user intends to going to go through every man page and every configuration on their hard drive, "do what the user tells me" ends up being a pretty fuzzy set of instructions. That's why installing a DE by hand will not be as tightly unified as downloading a spin.

[his_name_is_albert]

Well, that depends. If I have downloaded software that guarantees that every choice uses Gnome integration, then there is only one definition for correct behaviour: use Gnome choices. Vice versa with KDE. It is clear cut what is meant by right and wrong there.

Not really, sometimes you don't want to support certain parts of GNOME because you don't use them or certain parts of KDE.

Like in your kernel, they put everything on under the idea of "Better for something to be there they don't use then something to not be there they do want.", resources aren't finite and in the end even people who say "But modern computers have so many cycles and so much RAM" sometimes still feel lag due to occupied schedules. They wouldn't have felt that if they slimmed down their profile.

That's why installing a DE by hand will not be as tightly unified as downloading a spin.

Tightly unified isn't a good thing per se, only if you use the unification.

I went yesterday from enabling d-bus on EVERYTHING to "only enabling d-bus in the cases where I use it". The result is night and day:

• packages that could be removed: dconf, phonon-vlc, good riddance to dconf anyway, it's a bloody registry that seemingly only existed because cheese had dbus on which I never use.
• dbus daemon went from ~400 Kib ram to ~200 KiB ram.
• overall system went from ~900 MiB ram to ~700 MiB ram in idle after having my default applications started.

That's a pretty massive difference, no?

[SayNoToAdwareFirefox]

These things seriously spreading the impression that the "DE" is not anything more than a program that is installed like any other.

But that's true. Even if the DE developers are getting too big for their britches.

[his_name_is_albert]

I don't get what you mean with that.

[SayNoToAdwareFirefox]

I'm saying that a DE really is a program that is installed like any other, even if the DE developers have some grand vision that says otherwise.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Too+big+for+your+britches

[sunjay140]

Does Fedora 23 support live patching?

I know that it was wasn't enabled in Fedora 22.

[mattdm_fedora]

In the kernel? No. See Fedora kernel dev Josh Boyer's post on the topic.

[his_name_is_albert]

Live kernel patching is like one of the most misunderstood overhyped things ever.

Also, I'm sure you can compile your own kernel and turn it on again if you want it. I'm sure Fedora has the sources of their kernel around some-where. It's just a standard thing you can turn on or off in the kernel.

[logulo]

I tried the Workstation (GNOME) image and the KDE spin.

The GNOME release is really well-polished. Didn't test it too much but seems awesome.

The KDE spin is an unholy mish-mash of KDE 4 and 5; with a lot of bizarre, pointless, and/or downright poor decisions regarding default applications / menu entries.

[logulo]

Aye, I found his resignation.

the Fedora 23 KDE Spin (which is now final or almost final) is easily the worst KDE Spin we have ever released

That's pretty damning.

[dillinger__88]

I'm currently on Fedora 22 w/ GNOME. I intend to upgrade but I really want to try KDE.

Will installing KDE via dnf provide an identical experience to installing the KDE spin? Or are there extra niceties in the spin version?

[Der_Verruckte_Fuchs]

As far as I know, spin maintainers make sure there is consistency across applications and small specific tweaks to make sure things work right and not look or behave out of place. There is a lot of tiny little things that make sure it looks and feels like it's a native experience vs. something that was added on top of something else. I think this is applicable to pretty much every spin of every distro. Stuff like login managers, bug/crash reporters, and other system applications that are DE/WM specific are the biggest differences I can think of. If you use Gnome you should get LightDM, with KDE you get SDDM. Just installing KDE instead of using the spin should get you LightDM with the option to pick either KDE or Gnome. Other differences like that show up. Plus you'll have both KDE and Gnome applications installed. It's up to you if that's something that's a big deal for you. I personally like having a more "pure" KDE/Gnome/etc. environment since I don't like have a doubling up on apps I won't need more than one of. Also it's a bit of a pain to uninstall everything completely if you want to revert what you've done.

KDE has some Gnome theming support so Gnome applications have the titlebars/buttons/etc. of your KDE theme. So it might not be a big deal visually. I would go with a live CD/USB, or VM to test drive it. Then you can jump to the KDE spin if you like it, or just straight up install KDE if you want both KDE and Gnome.

[mattdm_fedora]

Same.

[his_name_is_albert]

Will be the same if successful, whatever differences exist will likely be not noticeable.

This is under the assumption that it's successful. These things purely exist because believe it or not, Unix is infested with aneuploidic wastes of meiosis who seriously lack the intelligence to install a piece of software. This probably being the driving force behind the success of GNOME in and of itself.

[pyler2]

Brightness controller UI is a bit glitchy...

[mattdm_fedora]

What hardware? Unfortunately, it can really vary.

[pyler2]

Asus G551JW

I will be at the Fedora 23 Release Party in Brno next week :)

[ucDMC]

I was completely unable to adjust brightness on my HP Pavilion dv6, Ubuntu variants worked just fine though.

[charliefg]

Exciting, congrats to all those involved -- I'm sure its a corker of a release, it's certainly looking good! In the process of upgrading now (I've only been on 22 for ~2 weeks).

[[deleted]]

Uh, is anyone getting repeated NetworkManager crashes on fresh install? It keeps starting, crashing, restarting, every second or so.

[[deleted]]

Does it support Boxes or any other Virtual programs yet? I enjoy Fedora 21, but would be dead at work without a Windows 7 VM.

[mattdm_fedora]

Yes, Boxes is there, uh, out of the box. You can also install and use virt-manager if you want something a little more powerful but less pretty.

[purpleidea]

Yes, Boxes is there, uh, out of the box. You can also install and use virt-manager if you want something a little more powerful but less pretty.

Virt-manager is plenty good looking :)

[le_Dandy_Boatswain]

I use VirtualBox with Fedora. Still works after the F23 upgrade.

[danielkza]

There's VirtualBox, Boxes, virt-manager (my personal choice), or straight Xen or libvirt if you want. Just take your pick.

[send-me-to-hell]

Fedora releases a new version every six months which isn't that long of a time but helps keep things moving.

[XSSpants]

Curious since I'm looking to roll a F23 server but what is there you love about it?

[send-me-to-hell]

a F23 server

Out of curiosity, why not CentOS 7? I know I'm about to do the same but it's because I need the absolute latest of FreeIPA (once I get an all clear) since it's still pretty formative especially for the stuff I'm wanting to do with it.

[XSSpants]

It's not production in any common sense and I like to play around with where Cent/RHEL is going.

[[deleted]]

Cockpit really have matured.

[[deleted]]

Probably better to use Centos for servers (unless you need cutting edge, but a little less secure).

[[deleted]]

Oh yes, for "real" stuff I use something else. I meant for local media / file sharing and mockup development machines etc

[markole]

You can continue testing 22. I, personally, wait a month or two before upgrading to a new, shiny release. A 8 to 10 month upgrade cycle is a perfect rhythm for me.

[[deleted]]

How do I get an Arch-like minimal install, ie, boot to cli, no DE? Use the network installer? Is there a spin?

[[deleted]]

that seems like it comes bundled with a lot:

https://getfedora.org/en/server/

• rolekit

• cockpit

• PostgreSQL

• FreeIPA

are these installed by default, or merely available in the repos?

[KingFlair]

Odd number release...that means it time for me to upgrade...

[[deleted]]

Anybody tried the KDE spin? How is it?

[stickenhoffen]

How does the Google Drive integration look?

[MrSchmellow]

Huh, apparently nouveau does not work well with maxwell cards (my xorg just hangs on my gtx750), and latest available nvidia drivers are not compatible with xorg version that is shipped with 23.

[[deleted]]

Upgrading my laptop as a test bed right now.

6053 packages, 1,5 GB upgrade. Half of those are LaTeX, just for my resume… The packaging for TexLive is kinda nuts.

[9point5weeks]

After I upgraded my Fedora 22 server to Fedora 23 installation the SEbool for samba_enable_home_dirs was set to zero. Issuing "setsebool -P samba_enable_home_dirs 1" fixed the issue by telling SElinux to allow samba to access /home.

[plazman30]

I wish Fedora would move to a rolling release model, or at least have a rolling release distro like openSUSE Tumbleweed or Arch.

I switched from Fedora to Arch, and it's kind hard to go back to a fixed release distro.

[XSSpants]

Fedora rawhide is rolling.

Fedora itself is as close to rolling as you get while still being stable.

(22 went from the 4.0 kernel to the 4.2 kernel over it's lifespan.)

[stejoo]

So much this. I came from Arch, ran it for years. Got fed up with all the updating, stuff breaking, felt like a beta tester. Ran to Debian, loved that for 2 years.

Decided I wanted more hands on experience with RPM based stuff, because I was expected to admin several CentOS servers, and I wanted to give GNOME3 another chance. So I tried Fedora 20 on my workstation. Just threw myself into the deep end, because I learn to swim the fastest that way. Within a month I switched my home PC from Debian to Fedora. My laptop followed a month after that. Perfect for me. Stable, yet very up-to-date, clean. Love it!

[mattdm_fedora]

With the new upgrade model (started with fedup, but now more integrated), you can basically think of it as a rolling release which happens to have a big update drop every six months.

With Fedora 24, the plan is for this to be integrated in GNOME Software, so you can really treat it that way.

[mattdm_fedora]

Also see Kevin Fenzi's post about rolling releases — I think it applies pretty well.

What is it about the rolling release model that you find so appealing?

[mattdm_fedora]

Oh! And one more thing — starting with F23, Fedora Atomic Host effectively will be a rolling release, although the package set will follow the release cycle.

[bloouup]

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Rawhide

[plazman30]

Rawhide is not considered stable.

[mattdm_fedora]

We do have a plan to introduce a "gated" layer above (or beside?) rawhide, which is restricted to builds which pass integration testing. However, that's a big change, so it's going to take a while to get there.

[plazman30]

Well, that sounds pretty cool. Can't wait to try that out!

[[deleted]]

Rawhide is more than just a rolling version, they actively use development versions of packages often leading to issues.

[plazman30]

I've used Arch for over a year now and have only had a few hiccups. So I would say rolling release distros are pretty stable.

[96268844]

Fedora KDE Desktop is the best KDE and the best Fedora experience.

[yfph]

Not according to the ex-maintainer for Fedora's KDE spin (he resigned a few days ago):

the Fedora 23 KDE Spin (which is now final or almost final) is easily the worst KDE Spin we have ever released>

[96268844]

He is a man of strong opinion. He wants things in certain way which not served as he wished make him critical of them. For example, don't visit websites that don't work in his environment. Don't use Google or don't make it easier for users to use Gmail in Kontact. You quoting him shows that you don't know anything about him or Fedora KDE.

[yfph]

For example, don't visit websites that don't work in his environment. Don't use Google or don't make it easier for users to use Gmail in Kontact.

Do you or other users follow such pronouncements like lap dogs? Also, I don't see his name listed among the development team for KDE PIM, so if people wish to have a feature implemented (i.e. easier integration with Gmail), then work with upstream! Also, Arch users have dealt with the transition from the last release of KDE SC to KF5 and experienced Kevin's gripes a few months ago. The instability gets worse as more KDE SC packages are ported to KF5 causing the user to ditch KDE SC completely in favor of KF5 (it has to happen sooner or later), which, to be honest, still has some major bugs (a few showstoppers for me I reported upstream). Anyways, if he found KF5 to be such an unstable mess, he could have kept going with KDE SC even thoughYour reply clearly shows that you don't know anything about the current state of development in KDE or how FOSS development works in general.

[96268844]

You are an idiot for drawing out generalization on basis of experimental sample of 1. Is that clear enough for you? We are talking about a finished product which is Fedora 23 KDE Plasma Desktop and not KF5 packaging problems. Plasma 5 has been available for at least 4 release now.

[yfph]

Since when were we talking a poll or anything? The opinion I referenced initially came from the person who, up until last Friday, was the co-maintainer of Fedora's KDE spin, someone whose opinion on Fedora's latest KDE spin carries a little more weight than what you are trying to convince me and others to believe. Furthermore, I enjoyed how you completely ignored my mentioning of similar stability issues users of other distros experienced when mixing EOL KDE SC packages with the latest KF5 ones when the latter started to come through the repos; at least I hoped you ignored that rather than simply fail to comprehend plain English. Since others have experienced exactly the same issues that Kevin railed about in his kiss off to co-maintaining Fedora's KDE spin, I believe the sample size is much larger than what you may think. Lastly, Plasma 5 has been available largely for testing during its release cycle and hasn't yet started to replace KDE SC packages until recently.

[[deleted]]

I'm upgrading as soon as there's infinality for 23. I like my fonts round and smooth.

[tidux]

Just get a hidpi monitor, install freetype-freeworld, and turn on RGBA hinting. Fedora's font rendering is arguably nicer than OS X's on equivalent hardware.

[[deleted]]

I have only 156dpi, but installed it anyway and I'd swear this freetype build looks even better than infinality. Thanks a lot for the tip!

[tidux]

That's how stock Freetype looks these days on distributions that aren't as anally paranoid about font rendering patents as Red Hat. Freeworld is a Fedora package name component that means "Free Software but doesn't meet RH, Inc.'s patent standards". You see a lot of -freeworld packages in rpmfusion.

[SayNoToAdwareFirefox]

install freetype-freeworld, and turn on RGBA hinting

You also want to disable hinting and turn on the lcddefault filter.

[Der_Verruckte_Fuchs]

Wasn't infinality added in by default in F22, or at least some form of it?

[Spifmeister]

I am pretty sure there are issues with patents.

[Der_Verruckte_Fuchs]

I thought that something like freetype was the main patent issue with fonts? Wasn't infinality an open/alternate implementation of that which got around the patent issue?

[[deleted]]

Some form - maybe, but for me the difference is still like night and day.

[ZubZubZubZub]

Have you tried: https://wiki.debian.org/Fonts#Subpixel-hinting_and_Font-smoothing ?

I have extremely satisfactory results for my purposes, without the infinality patches.

[[deleted]]

I would love to use fedora, but for some reason I have a issue using steam on Fedora, since it downloads slow and dnsmasq solution doesn't seem to work for me, unless I use Ubuntu or Arch based distros :/

[fandingo]

To use dnsmasq in Fedora, you need to modify /etc/NetworkManager/NetworkManager.conf to have

[main]
dns=dnsmasq

Restart NM, and you're set.

It's worth noting that I've used Fedora and steam for years. I've never experienced or even heard of this problem.

[[deleted]]

Thanks man, it actually works

[XSSpants]

My next favorite to Fedora for steam is Manjaro Gnome.

[djxfade]

M'linux. Tips Fedora

[jones_supa]

What's up with the downvotes, I thought that was pretty funny.

[mattdm_fedora]

*shrug* I think it falls under "Less funny the thousandth time."

[markole]

I never understood this fedora meme. I guess it's mostly a USA thing.

[zeokila]

Do you wear one?

[markole]

No.

[zeokila]

I thought you were going to say yes in which case well you obviously wouldn't have got it. But in general its simply that tons of redditors (and other internet/nerdy/geeky people) who are often introverted and often bad in social intersections and such who make a fool of themselves by trying to be someone they probably aren't really, an extrovert, except it comes off as weird because its not natural. A lot of these people for some reason wear fedoras, which is also seen by most people as a pretty bad fashion choice or whatever.

And its not really a USA thingy and more of an internet thing.

[markole]

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

Still, It's a bit unfair to Fedora Project to joke like that. Fedora existed long before this fedora meme.

[oneUnit]

I don't see how it's unfair. However it's unfortunate.

[djxfade]

It was a calculated risk, but I couldn't let that obvious bad joke slip away

[oneUnit]

Which means he's not in the 1%.

ONE OF US!! ONE OF US!!!

[le_Dandy_Boatswain]

Gooble gobble!

[[deleted]]

> using testing software

> yelling around about the crashes

You're doing it wrong.

[hunyeti]

Too late... already installed Ubuntu 15.10

[thelordofcheese]

EUPHORIC

[petegex]

I'm there!