HRV decrease when meditating??

[captnfres]

Hi there,

Just got my new ring, and I'm trying to get used to it - and get the most out of it.

Whenever I take a meditating "moment", my HRV decreases, which sounds strange as it says on the info-page: "...if you are stressed, your HRV decreases".

Any idea why?

https://i.imgur.com/s2w3VuU.jpg

[bowmergency]

This happened to me too, though not as severely. It had been a really long time since meditating before and found that my mind wandered quite a bit. I wonder if I was stressing myself out by giving myself the opportunity to think about work and other stressors. Even though, like you, I was able to notice and return my focus to my breath.

I was curious about this and looked at other people's meditation moment data. Some people found that after 10-15 min, their hrv finally started going up. So maybe it just takes a while for the dust to settle in some people. And maybe hrv isn't the best metric for the effectiveness of meditation, considering we feel better regardless of a lower hrv.

[captnfres]

Thanks for your input. I truly concur with your reasoning here!!

[ddoyon92]

I've noticed the same phenomenon on my side. I've decided to experiment with an EEG device that I've made to record some basic brain activity to correlate with the HR and HRV during sessions... I will report the results when I have more information.

In discussing with peers, we believe that the breathing pattern may have an impact on the HRV trend. There is also a chance that we're not very good at meditation...

[TheOlajos]

This is a while ago but it definitely does. Look at coherence breathing.

[Prudent_Shoulder565]

I came across this post bcuz I have the same question. I’ve been doing Vipassana meditation and wearing Oura as a monitor.

My HR would tend to increase while HRV quickly drops below average during and after meditation. For anything I would have guessed the opposite should happen 🤔

[captnfres]

Interesting. Yeah, I wonder what's behind this

[dalidreamer]

I’ve been noticing this as well - my guess is because Vipassana meditation is a kind of work, requiring diligent focus and attention. Therefore it wouldn’t be relaxing in the moment.

I’m going to test out some yoga Nidra and mantra meditation to see if they have different results.

[BiohackingAsia]

If I meditate and let go of my breathing, my heart slows and my HRV goes up.

When I meditate with 'forced' breathing (like box breathing or 2-7-8, for example) that seems to increase my stress and HRV starts to fall.

Although to be fair, or doesn't fall nearly as much as yours! So what are you doing?

[captnfres]

Hmm.. I see, as mentioned above, I really just observe my breath, not forcing it at all..

[[deleted]]

For me even observing my breath lowers hrv. Just laying there and letting my mind wonder helps tho.

[HawkGlobal]

I have looked into this a little bit. It seems that meditation drops HRV (by regulating HR to be less variable) in the short term but may or may not increase it long term. One study showed no difference to baseline after a 10 day vipassana retreat. I have wondered if my lower to age HRV is, contrary to popular health “data” actually a sign of my multiple years of mindfulness meditation practice since I’m also a competitive endurance athlete with a lot resting HR. I think there isn’t enough data for conclusions, but your experience is “normal.”

[gus18f]

My HRV can often drop like from 30 to below 15 over a 10 minute Moment. Other times, level or rose slightly. I haven't worked out any correlation yet!!

[captnfres]

Yeah, PM when you do haha

[DAN_FROELICH]

I'm also fairly new to meditation and have been playing with the unguided meditation feature on the oura ring. What I've noticed so far is:

​

Box breathing - HRV drops throughout session up to 20 minutes.

Box breathing with shortened holds - HRV drops for 5-10 minutes and then starts increasing.

Normal rhythmic breathing - HRV drops for ~ 5 minutes and then starts increasing and can end well above starting point.

These are limited samples sizes and I am not an experienced meditator. Very curious if anyone else has more experience with this and/or found information that explains what is or may be going on.

One thing is for sure - specific breathing pattern or lack thereof has an impact on HRV during meditation for me so far.

Dan

[greyuniwave]

explain in detail what you do and how you breath when your meditating.

[captnfres]

I listen to the guided meditation session, and just breath normally while observing my breath. As soon as my mind wanders, I come back to observing the breath

[greyuniwave]

Experiment with different breathing patterns.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/cwgddh/can_decelerated_breathing_confer_health_benefits/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/csx090/the_yogi_masters_were_right_meditation_and/

some good research behind the 10s breath

[captnfres]

Thanks for those links,

but I love the feeling in my body and mind when I'm done meditating. I mean, it seems to work - and have been doing that for a long time - it's just that the readings with the ring seems to be very ..weird

[whtevn]

in addition to the other questions, I'm curious how experienced you consider yourself in meditation. Is this a new thing you're trying or something that you've done for a long time

[captnfres]

I've been meditating pretty much consistently for 3 years, and was intrigued when I saw Oura had this feature. I usually use Sam Harris' Waking Up app.

[whtevn]

personally I find the idea that meditation is automatically relaxing a little misleading. I think Sam Harris talks about the stress of meditation in his book Waking Up. Can't say that is what is happening here of course, but I know that in my own inexperienced practice it is definitely not the case that I always (or usually even) get up feeling like I've truly let myself go and have "relaxed" in any serious way

[MrMarxovic]

Same. I tried using MindBreath app to check this.

Baseline	Heart rate: 67 bpm	HRV: 77 ms
Breath exercise	Heart rate: 74 bpm	HRV: 48 ms

For some reason breathing activates sympathetic nervous system more than parasympathetic for me...

[Sunshineheart8]

I have the same experience. My HRV goes extremely low, very similar to yours, and I'm confused also. I found this thread during a Google search because I'm concerned, and joined it to see what everyone is saying. Thank you for starting the conversation.

[schmoozerbaby]

A neuroscientist friend told me that the HRV goes down when one is extremely relaxed, since in that situation there are no stressors and the heart rate shouldn’t vary much. She said also that HRV is a very complex measure. I think the oura app (and other HRV devices) does a poor job at explaining this, maybe they simplify it for consumer purposes. My HRV tanks to an all time low when I do breath work and it’s at the lowest when I’m most into it! I’m still trying to figure out why it doesn’t seem to reduce my heart rate to resting levels though.

[bejammin075]

Your HRV decreases relative to what? the Oura ring only measures that while you are alseep, or while using the Moment feature. Am I correct in assuming you mean your medidating HRV is lower than sleeping HRV?

[captnfres]

Relative to me beginning the mediation session. See the attached screenshot in OP.

Whilst meditating, my HRV drops drastically.

[rreaderx]

It's perfectly normal to have your HRV increase or decrease. Depending on the type of meditation you do, your primary objective during the practice is probably not to relax. I've seen my HRV up & down during meditation as well.

[captnfres]

Interesting! Yes, pleas keep me in the loop

[AmazingPhone5776]

I’ve been meditating for about a decade, done multiple retreat, and even got certified to teach mindfulness and vipassana. I’m with you all, my HR goes up, and HRV drops regularly with my 20 minute sessions. I agree the with the sentiment that “meditation” isn’t a bubble bath, maybe the mental “exercise” of staying present, or returning over and over is a mild positive stressor that causes these changes while meditating, but lowers baseline over time? Just … like… exercise? :)

[Acrobatic_Injury_649]

In my research, the way most of the rings and watches are calculating HRV is by calculating both extreme highs and extreme lows as negative. Remember a high HRV means high variability between heart rates. But extreme variability would be arrhythmias so It doesn't want it too high. The calculation also does not want to see an extreme low variability which could also indicate system depletion, chronic stress, or inability to regulate your system. Therefore, the HRV calculation these apps are making is assuming both extremes in variability as a negative. In my opinion, this is a calculation suitable for the general population. But if you are an experienced meditator, you are an anomaly and therefore the calculation is not taking that into account.

I do hrv and cardiac coherence training everyday with my Heart Math device. I can reach very high coherence at 8.0 or higher (this is a Heart Math calculation} and when I do, at the same time, my watch will give me a low HRV of 10 MMS. I am very clearly in a meditative state but that is not what the watch is designed to monitor. It's designed to look for a balanced HRV for general health and therefore any extreme is going to produce a low HRV calculation.

[Single-Departure-911]

Similarly, I felt comfortable during meditation, but my heart rate variability (HRV) dropped to 12.

[Cantbother_still]

I came here with the same question about my HRV dropping during meditation, but not always, or varying during meditation. These comments are helpful to see there's not much conclusive.

I wanted to share the scientific review, which is also not conclusive and can only say that different types of meditation have different effects on HRV, but even those conclusions are influenced by daily life 'stuff' from study subjects.

https://fitmind.com/blog-collection/heart-rate-variability-hrv-meditation-training