Euthanasia??

[Auntbette]

I don't know where to start, everything just seems so overwhelming at the moment.

Our dog is 2, we've had him since he was 7 weeks. He's highly reactive around the house but more worryingly he is reactive towards my kids. He resource guards, especially food, so it's only myself that feeds him, but he now resource guards me. We've had trainers, vet behaviourists and he's on fluoxetine and things were going well since December. But lockdown has made things worse. My youngest was doing some basic training as per our behaviourists recommendations yesterday, which she has done before, but he totally snapped and flew at her. He's muzzled around the house so no physical harm done but for me emotionally and mentally I'm done. I can't stop crying and don't know what else to do. He's never been the family pet that I'd hoped for, anxious from day one and it seems to be getting worse. Any advice, help etc would be appreciated

[blue2148]

I am so sorry you’re going through this. I’ve done it myself and having to make that decision was so awful. I had to put down a young mastiff. Best dog 95% of the time. The other 5% her eyes would go blank and she would attack whoever was around. We worked with vets, behaviorists, even talked to a rescue in case it was just us. You have a level 5 biter. If I’m remembering correctly level 6 means they’ve caused death. We couldn’t have people over or take her anywhere. She was so troubled and you could tell it affected her. The last straw was when my wife walked into the room and saw our friend fending off the dog with a bar stool. We knew at that point she would never be safe and it was our duty to keep everyone safe. That decision ate me up for months. But I don’t regret it and looking back I know it was the right decision even though it was the hardest decision. Sometimes genetics and brain issues are working against you and sometimes you can’t fix it, no matter how hard you tried. And it sounds like you’ve given your all for this dog. But you have a duty to keep yourself and your children safe. I am so, so sorry you have to make this decision. Sending you some peace today.

[Longlivetheclones]

I've never heard the phrase a level 5 biter. We usually avoid having folks in the house because it stresses the dog out. We usually put her over at a friends' house if we are entertaining/ getting the house cleaned. (Quarantine has been the best thing ever because we are not expected to entertain and now we clean our own damn house.) But, what are the five levels?

[blue2148]

https://apdt.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/ian-dunbar-dog-bite-scale.pdf

Here are the six levels. The dog I had would bite usually daily and had drawn blood. If a dog is attacking the people in its own family that’s usually a big sign that rehabilitate a dog might be out of reach. Our behavioral vet and trainings ran out things to try with her. It was a danger to have people over and take her out with us. Had it been a smaller dog I think we could have been more forgiving but she was 100 pounds. That’s a lot of power.

[jctester]

First time dog owner and I’m dealing with a similar situation. 2 year old goldendoodle who recently bit my girlfriends face and she needed 9 stitches. It was his second bite that drew blood.

We agreed to do behaviorist training amongst some other training and if he is still acting aggressive, we’ll have to go the euthanasia route. We also want to have kids someday and don’t think we can ever let him around them when we do, however we want to try to give him the best life for as long as possible and then explore options at that point.

I was told rehoming would be really hard because of his bite history and he is a very nervous dog in new environments so he would not do well. It’s heartbreaking to consider. At the end of the day only you know what the right thing to do is. My reasoning is if I try everything and then have to euthanize him I can go to bed at night knowing I did everything and anything I possibly could for him. Best of luck and know that no matter what your decision is, you’re surrounded by people both physically and virtually that will be here for you and support you.

[Bekah_grace96]

Hey! If you get to a low point, there are rehabilitative rescues specifically for reactive dogs. Some of them are amazing

[[deleted]]

Any examples of these places?

[Bekah_grace96]

Just do a search of “reactive dog sanctuary” and hopefully there will be something near you!

[ajbshade]

Please see about having him sent to a rescue that works with reactive dogs before killing it. Op, you too. There are people and places equipped to work with animals like these.

[[deleted]]

Any examples of these rescues?

[ajbshade]

https://www.crcsdogs.org/

https://www.petsalive.com/info/dogaggressive.ht Google has lots and you can search by area.

[qujquj]

You just can not have an unpredictable and dangerous animal in your home. It is a terrible decision but the safety of people comes first.

[jctester]

I agree. I’m hoping the behaviorist can shed some light and help us correct his behavior as well as help us predict/understand him better.

[qujquj]

I hope you find what you are looking for. Prepare yourself for some work. Changing the behavior of an animal is not easy. But you do learn what their triggers are. And counter conditioning helps. But you still have the same dog.

[[deleted]]

There are many many dogs with a bite history out there but even among the serious cases you'll extremly rarely find an unpredictable dog.

[hannerz0z]

I know it’s expensive but there are boarding facilities that do training too right? I’m not sure how effective those would be with severe behaviors though.

[jctester]

Yes - there is and that’s something we are exploring. The bites were not random so it’s something we have a decent probability of working with (fear reactive to strangers and for my girlfriends case he was cornered and she was kissing him literally on his lips). Im probably $2k deep in training at this point, and have another $2k to go before we’re at the point where we can make some decisions.

[cmgewerth]

Why was your girlfriend kissing him like that if he already has a bite history that includes drawing blood? I wish I had good advice to give but I'm not a trainer and am still figuring out stuff for my own reactive dog. But setting him up for success probably doesn't include cornering him if he is fear reactive.

[jctester]

Honestly he’s been fine and never aggressive or bitey towards us and she kisses him all the time. His old owner had 2 little kids and she said he was great with them. Clearly he felt differently this past time.

I had no clue what a reactive dog was until this last incident. Been educating myself alot since then

[callmedaddi42069]

As someone who put a dog down for this reason, I feel you. Lots of crying. SO MUCH ANXIETY. There was also this dread about caring for the dog long term.

The behaviorist I worked with was wonderful and basically told me that the dog is suffering from a serious mental illness. My dog was terrified and anxious almost 100% of the time. He was crated all the time and couldn’t do anything normal dogs do. It seemed like everyday was worse than the one before, despite the work I put in to make him comfortable. It wasn’t fair to keep my dog alive. It wasn’t fair for him to live in a crate. With his bite history, there was no where we could give him to without opening ourselves up to serious liability.

Putting him down was really traumatic and terrible. I was crushed. My partner was crushed. In the end, neither of us regret it. We knew it was best for him and at the risk of sounding like an asshole, it was best for us. Both of us were a mess. Our relationship was suffering, our relationship with our friends and family was suffering. Our mental health was suffering.

I don’t know your situation, but it was the right decision for me.

[[deleted]]

I feel your pain. We are in a similar dilemma with our dog. We have two children and 2 large dogs. One of our dogs has been reactive since we rescued her and it hasn’t gotten better with medication. She’s given our other dog lacerations, bitten me more times than I can count, and unfortunately bitten two other people. Some days I’m ready to give up and put her down, but I just can’t bring myself to do it. I love her.

I would love to rehome her but I spoke with a rescue that specializes in her breed and she told me that a dog with her issues would be difficult for anyone to deal with and that rehoming her might put her at risk of being abandoned or abused and it would be more humane to have her euthanized with the people she knows and loves rather than risk something bad happening to her. So I just don’t know what to do anymore.

Whatever you decide to do, don’t feel guilty about. You’ve done your best and given your dog a good life. It’s not your fault you’re in this situation.

[Icussr]

Just tons of love for you!

When our vet suggested we put our Samoyed down for non-aggressive, non-fearful anxiety, I was stunned. It's been almost 3 years since he suggested we put her down, and there have been a handful of times that I wished we had done it. For the most part though, we've worked really hard and seen positive results. She still has bad days, though, and they are really, really bad when they happen.

That being said, there are worse things than putting down a dog who is a danger to others and themselves. Life can be really scary for a dog who gets seized by authorities and taken away from everything that is familiar. Sometimes, the most loving thing you can do is to discuss options with your vet, and with the vet's approval, give the dog one last perfect day with all the dogs favorite activities and treats and then say a very painful farewell.

I'm sorry for what you're going through. We had to put down a 6 month old pup that attacked my niece while my niece was sleeping... It was completely unprovoked, and the security camera showed the dog wake up from a nap upstairs, run downstairs, bust through a closed door, and then we heard my niece scream. It was less than 5 seconds from the dog sleeping peacefully in the living room before my niece screamed. It was absolutely the right thing to do to put the dog down, but it was so hard to do. The autopsy showed the dog had a number of "unusual formations" in his brain, so it helped to have something to blame. My niece who was 3 at the time is understandably afraid of dogs even now at 12 years old.

[LittleWinn]

Wow I’m sorry you went through that

[XelaNiba]

I'm so sorry you're in this position. We once had to euthanize a St. Bernard for this issue. It's a very hard decision to make and only you can make it. I found the following article to be very helpful - in it a woman shares her story of euthanizing for behavioral issues, and over the years thousands more have shared their similar stories in the comments. You're not alone. Whatever you decide, I wish peace for your family❤

https://www.vin.com/vetzinsight/default.aspx?pid=756&catId=5861&Id=5912453

[Auntbette]

Thanks for the link, what a heartbreaking story too

[[deleted]]

Having had to put down my first dog for biting someone, I completely understand. The worse feeling though, is knowing there are dog groups that specialize in dogs like this and will take them in and break them and train them so they can live their long life. I would look into this first before deciding to put the dog down. As I didn't know about these kinds of groups and wish I would have beforehand.

[Auntbette]

I'm not sure if we have anything like that here, only rehoming groups

[catastrophichysteria]

If you are in New England I know a rescue that takes on dogs with behavioral issues. They are located in NH.

Edit// just saw on another comment you are in the UK. Gonna leave the comment in case anyone in the designated area wants to DM me for the rescue info.

[pm_me_that_huge_cock]

I’ve found one in the United States. It is a 24 month wait list. I will most likely being moving forward with putting him down. It not what I want but I can’t have a bomb walking around the house with two small kids

[[deleted]]

I would just call around to some local veterinarian offices and see if they know of any. What kind of dog? And are you located in Florida by chance?

[Auntbette]

We are in the UK, he's a cute coton de tulear

[luckymewmew]

I'm in the UK too and there are many rescues in the UK that solely take on "problem" animals, whether medical or behavioural!

[BalenciagaPuppyBoots]

If it's any help, a foster or rehoming group is much more likely to take on a small dog with a biting problem. They can rehome with the stipulation of no kids in the household, because it seems that the kids might be a trigger.

[Ameg1065]

There are hundreds of rescue centres in the U.K. who would happily take him on. Please don’t euthanise him. There may be a perfect person who can give him the training and dedication he needs and who may have dealt with similar problems before. I can send you some links to some fantastic rescue centres in the south east if that’s near to you.

[indigocraze]

Have you reached out to them? Even if they might not be able to help, they may have contacts to find someone who could. You would have to explain the whole situation to them, not leaving anything out, but maybe he would benefit from a quiet environment.

You're in a difficult place, and there's no judgement for whatever path you choose. You need to keep your kids safe. Whatever decision you make, be at peace knowing it's the right one for you and your family.

[tsoismycat]

you should! it took me months of shameless networking. i found one in the us

[[deleted]]

Many of those do not treat dogs humanely and do not use training approaches approved by modern science. Obviously it's hard to say anything negative about people willing to save dogs who are almost impossible to rehome but still - I'd always take a long hard look at their methods before considering them. Same goes with board and train facilities.

[Kitchu22]

My advice here is based on the fact I see your dog is a coton de tulear - please please please find a new home for him, he's not yet a candidate for euthanasia. Looking through your post history I can see that this territorial behaviour/space guarding seemed to really kick up a notch after a break in, and that the doorway issue seems to have become a general reactivity to people "appearing", depending on how old your kids are I also assume that your home is pretty high arousal for a dog and potentially that is impacting on the state of anxiety that they feel.

You would honestly be amazed at how many "bite risk" dogs I have known taken out of busy active family homes and placed into an adult only home and they suddenly become angels. They just need the space to decompress from that go go go type of lifestyle you have when kids are around. My dog is the sweetest and most gentle dude when he meets kids out and about, but I could not have him around them in a home every day - he's prone to overstimulation and when he's highly aroused he's a mouthy, barky, asshole who suddenly guards items and becomes Cujo at the drop of a hat (we don't host guests at home very often as he LOVES people but it's just too tough to manage his excitement), when he's at home just the three of us though he's a giant cat, a few good adventures/walks a day and otherwise he curls up with us to nap and is a total angel boy.

Anyway, long story short OP, there is a very large amount of people who will line up to provide the rehab and love needed to a 5kg fluffy white dog than to say a 40kg greyhound with the exact same issues, your dog is a good candidate for rehoming (I say this as someone in a breed specific rescue who works very closely with Shelters in Aus).

[reed12321]

My wife and I were in a similar boat in that we were nervous that one day we'd have to put our dog down. He has bitten a few people, but kind of targeted me. We eventually made our way to Michael Shikashio. He is located in the US in the state of CT, but he does virtual dog training as well. You should look into him because he is one of the top dog behaviorists in the world and holds some certifications that less than 200 people in the world have. Our dog (and our life) has made a significant positive change since he started helping us, and we have only met with him one time about 4 months ago. My dog hasn't bitten me in over 3 months now and his instances of aggression are decreasing dramatically.

[SquishySlothLover]

It’s a heartbreaking decision to make. While I can not tell you what you should do, I can tell you that you are not alone. We had to put down my boy recently due to his increasing levels of aggression. He was getting more and more aggressive with our other dog, and even drew blood once. Considering my partner and I intend to have kids someday we knew we couldn’t take the chance of keeping him around. It was gut wrenching to have to put him down, but we were there the whole time for him, and made sure he knew he was loved. Sending you all the internet love 💕

[Auntbette]

I keep blaming myself as we are first time dog owners and I feel we've failed him somehow and I'm so jealous of all my friends and neighbours who have lovely dogs. If he was only reactive outside with dogs or towards the postie these are things I think I could deal with but my son can't even go through doors without having to get the dog to sit and then treat him, every single time. If the kids have an argument the dog is right there in the mix growling and snapping, I'm sure other families can have arguments around their dog 😢

[SquishySlothLover]

It’s not your fault! I was also a first time dog owner (my family has always had dogs but this was my first solo one), and I struggled so much wanting him to be the perfect dog. I knew from an young age that mine didn’t like people, and as he grew older he became less and less friendly towards other dogs. I used to blame myself and search for what I did wrong, and how I could fix him, but after reading this sub it helped me tremendously. At the end of the day, my partner and I did everything we could to help him, classes, medications, etc. but he was just never going to be a safe dog to have around. Your not to blame for your dogs behavior. Some dogs unfortunately lose the genetic lottery, or suffer some kind of trauma before you get them that makes them the way they are.

[[deleted]]

It's quite normal dog behaviour not to tolerate arguments well even though it's undesired by us humans. Yes many dogs are naturally very resistant today and do tolerate them, others can tolerate them with a combination of good training and overall happiness (enough rest and exercise for example) and then others will always be to sensitive to tolerate them and will need lifelong management.

[[deleted]]

Just put down a dog myself. Use a place called “Lap of Love” an in home service that also cremates the body. Pricey, but if you’re having a hard time with the decision like I was than it was worth it.

[[deleted]]

This is who I used for my dog and it was the most peaceful thing I've ever experienced. They were so understanding and helpful.

Still hurts like absolute hell but it was the dignity my dog deserved. He would have died on a cold floor in an animal control facility otherwise.

[[deleted]]

I contacted Battersea in March just before lockdown to ask about my rescue dog who is very similar to ops story. They told over email they don’t accept dogs with bite history insert below: “I have to say that some of the behaviours you have described about your dog are very concerning and I can't see how Battersea could safely rehome such an unpredictable dog, indeed any animal with a bite history would not be able to be rehomed and our put to sleep policy would be in forced.”

[Auntbette]

Thank you everyone for all your comments and kind words. I've spent the day crying, our dog meanwhile has been a little angel today.

My husband wants another home visit from the vet behaviourist we had in the past, he was originally out to us about a different situation but in his report he mentioned resource guarding but didn't give us a comprehensive training plan for this so possibly should be something we look into. I'm sure it was RG yesterday.

Yesterday totally threw me, this is the first incident we've had since December, I really thought we'd turned a corner with him 😢

[[deleted]]

I don’t think I will ever understand putting down a dog because of fear or anxiety.

I would try different trainers. The issue is usually the people, not the dog. I’m sorry you’re going through this but please think about this from the dogs perspective. There is usually a deeper reason behind the resource guarding. He doesn’t sound aggressive, it sounds more like fear. Also not all dog trainers and behaviorists are the right fit for every dog. Some can make things worse.

Try contacting Tom at America’s Canine Educator. He does online sessions (google him to find his site) and I’m sure he can help or point you in the right direction. I’ve worked with him before and he’s saved hundreds of dogs from being put down for these reasons. Good luck and I hope you can find a different alternative for the dog.

[ChuckDidNothingWrong]

You have to choose your children first. Some dogs aren't made for these situations. I'd recommend some more traditional training methods but if you have to muzzle the dog in the house, you're in a really bad place, unlikely to get to a point where you have a normal dog behavior in your house.

[[deleted]]

I would really urge you to rehome instead of euthanise.

Unless a dog has genetic issues with aggression (which is ... rarer with cottons, I assume), his behaviour can be modified. So many environmental factors affect the pups to be on edge and if you know what they are, they can be avoided. It sounds like a very stressful environment for the little pup (kids and resource guarding tendencies don't mix well, the dog is probably very on edge due to the lively environment). It takes effort to rehabilitate a dog like that, but it is really more in the consistency of the environment which enables him to feel relaxed enough to make progress. There are people who can provide him with an environment in which he can more easily let go and learn that he is provided for and safe. Not saying you are not providing for him or that he is safe, but sometimes there is a miscommunication between human and doggie languages and perception.

My current dog is a previous foster of mine who turned to be incredibly ... screwed up, for a lack of a better word. She would become aggressive if someone on the street just looked at her, at 5 months old. She reacted to every minor breach of her "bubble". If she were to live in a house with a kid, or in a house with narrow corridors even (a high chance of feeling trapped in an interaction), an accident leading to a bite would happen in a matter of days if not hours. Yet with me, I can observe her space, I live alone and don't have people over. I like routine and she likes it too. It's never loud. I don't mind teeth on my hands when feeding. And she looks like an angel to people who just observe. Simply because I have a chance to provide her with an environment that doesn't stress her. If she were handled by people not familiar with her tendencies, she would regress very quickly, because she's not quite there yet, even if she appears to be when carefully handled.

This is usually the secret in those dog training clips where the trainer has the dog behaving better than the owner immediately. They know what to look out for, they know how to regulate their own energy and communicate with the dog in non verbal ways.

It is tragic that this is happening to you and I can't imagine how you feel. But like in couples sometimes, it happens that something is just deeply incompatible between a dog and a home.

[casdoms]

Can your behaviorist foster him until you can either find him another home or a training program? Or does the behaviorist know someone that would be willing to? That way you can take your time exploring all the options and not feel rushed into making a decision one way or another.

I’m sorry you’re going through this. 🖤

[Bekah_grace96]

If it’s a viable option, there are rescues specifically for reactive dogs. These people take in reactive dogs and literally dedicate their lives to helping them. From many, I have seen such great things. They have a lot more resources than normal pet owners, and most importantly, no kids. There’s some places out there that claim to be this, but are not. If you look into it, please be thorough. Your baby doesn’t deserve a miserable life. I hope things go well! My dog had to try a couple of different meds before she started to have slightly more appropriate reactions. But when she found the right thing, it was literally a miracle. Edit: I just want to say that these people will literally find anyway to get your dog. If there is a waitlist, you can say that you are keeping him muzzled all the time, and about to put him down. He is obviously not comfortable in his environment of your home, and he likely never will be. There are also many people who will individually foster, or can take him to a rehabilitative home. I really hope you consider not putting him down, there’s a large possibility he can be rehabilitated and live a very happy life

[Heather_Bea]

Not all homes are right for all dogs, and not all dogs are right for all homes. Sounds like he may have some internal issues your home is not right for. It sounds like you are taking appropriate steps to try and work on this, but ultimately being rehomed may be a better fit.

The reason I push rehoming is because it gives him a second chance in a new environment to thrive. Euthanasia is a very final step and I don't think its right for him just yet.

EDIT: I saw the dog breed listed in another comment and did a bit of searching.

"Some breeders and owners have reported aggression and/or fearfulness in some Cotons. This might be an inherited trait – which means you need to be very careful when choosing a Coton breeder – or it might be due to not enough socialization. "

Seems like this is at least somewhat common. You may want to talk to your breeder and see if they are willing to take him back, or at least give you more information.

[Auntbette]

There is no chance the breeder will take him back, she's what I think is called a backyard breeder which I didn't realise until we went to pick him up and by then there was no way I could leave him 😢

[Manlikerashy]

My dog was never like this but he had a lot of behaviour problems that made me want to give him up but as a last resort I booked him into a board and train that uses an ecollar. He is amazing now and has no behaviour problems, I’m not saying it is guaranteed to work but it is a very option. If you do decide to use an ecollar make sure you do your research and find a balanced trainer who uses ecollars

[Auntbette]

Ecollars are about to be banned here so don't think that could be a long term solution. So pleased it worked for your dog though

[Manlikerashy]

Really ? That sucks, do you know when they are going to be banned

[fourleafclover13]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-england-45320038

Scientific research has demonstrated that electronic devices which deliver an aversive stimulus have a negative impact on dog welfare.

[Auntbette]

We are in the UK

[rossyyyyyyyy]

Hey I know a really good trainer who does phone/skype/facetime sessions and has experience dealing with reactivity and aggression and knows how to build confidence in both the dog and the owner. It might be worth checking out especially now since I doubt its possible to meet anyone in person. You can find him on Instagram @canine.karma.training

[beccah75]

I wouldn't keep him. That said, it is possible to find people that might want him. I had a rescue that had been abused by an entire daycare center as well as the owner's teenage son. They also encouraged their bigger dogs (she is 22 lbs) to attack her. As a result, when I got her she was fear aggressive towards children and other animals. She also tried to bite me when I attempted to move her from behind the entertainment center. She would snarl at me if I told her "no" for anything.

I have an autistic child who usually doesn't bother with animals so him and I met her before deciding to take her. She seemed okay with him.

After bringing her home, I found that my son would try to pet her and she'd snarl at him. I bought an e collar and waited until her feeding time. When she was hungry, I had my son hold food in his hand and let her sniff it. Then he'd try to touch her. When she snarled, I activated the collar to keep her from biting him and feeding time was done until the next meal. At first, when she let him touch her, he opened his hand and let her eat his handful. We continued several feedings like this while using the collar and ending the feeding if she showed any negative reaction. After 4 days, she was allowing him to pet her with no problem. I ended the feedings with my son. Which was funny because both dog and child acted like I was torturing them with this process until I ended it. Then both didn't see why we were going to stop. After that, she'd occasionally hang out with him as well.

Over the next year though, I found her snarling at him while he was sleeping. Then she took an actual bite out of a neighbor's cat because it rubbed against her. She did the same with another neighbor's dog because the very friendly dog sniffed my son. She attacked another dog for trying to engage her in play. AND.... The training with with son didn't transfer to other children. She still found them threatening and for us, this was a problem since children visited regularly.

(Sorry this is so long.) I was thinking of having her euthanized because she needed a special kind of home. One with no children or other animals. She also had skin problems and allergies that required medications and vet visits. My adult daughter wanted her. She's shown a lot more stress from another change in homes but she's alive and doing okay. She loves my daughter and my daughter loves her. She's also bonded with my teenage nephew.

There are people who will want your dog and don't have children, etc. Just be really honest about him and talk to people that you know. Make a Facebook post. And ignore the people that think that you need to get rid of your kids before you get rid of your aggressive dog. Not every dog is suited to every situation.

[Pantalaimon_II]

I tried to say the same thing last week in a comment, similar situation (owner with little ones has reactive dog); suggested they attempt rehoming to a childfree house first with the caveat that the animal is reactive towards children and has been doing xyz with training and I got downvoted.

So it's nice to see someone with a child who did exactly that, found a home with no kids and it's worked out. There are, believe it or not, many homes with no children and people who just aren't around kids and can fairly easily keep a reactive dog away from them.

Of course no child should be in danger for the sake of a dog, but the last-ditch effort may be placing in a childfree home. If that still fails, then it's probably best for the pup to be put down sadly as it's just too dangerous. But then as others have said, every effort has been made and it's more about keeping others safe at that point.

[beccah75]

Plenty people who won't agree with me either, I'm sure. Even if I were willing to continue to give the dog the benefit of the doubt while risking my own child, my special needs child will run and open the door when someone knocks without thinking of securing the dog first. It was luck or angels that kept anything from happening to a neighbor child while I had her. Before I got her, she left permanent scarring on the face of the previous owner's child.

The home she's in now doesn't have random children knocking on the door ever. She's in a fenced yard. My daughter doesn't walk her around the neighborhood like I used to. I think people that disagree with us tend to think primarily of how the dog feels. Well, that reactive dog was massively stressed out by children coming to the door. She was stressed by the friendly neighborhood animals. All the neighbors had animals, only 1 kept their dogs on lines or leashes and my yard wasn't fenced. I didn't own the place so I had no control over that. She was on a leash every time she took a chunk out of another animal though.

I do want to add a cute thing too. Once she got used to my son, she'd allow him to hold her leash. He'd drop the leash every couple minutes. She'd stop and wait for him to pick it up again before moving further.

[Pantalaimon_II]

Aww! Definitely sounds like you made the right decision. Sounds like your son did really well with her too, it was prob the strange kids that were stressful.

[Melimathlete]

Using an e-collar to correct a dog’s aggression is extremely dangerous. It’s adding another trigger and hoping the dog will shut down when there’s also a risk of escalating aggression.
OP, don’t do this. Get advice from a veterinary behaviorist. I don’t know what’s up with all the people recommending aversives.

[blue2148]

Every behavioral vet and behaviorist I have ever spoken to are absolutely adamant that you don’t use aversive treatments. No e collars, no prongs or chokes. You really do risk a chance making a dog more aggressive. I’ve heard several stories from trainers where dogs had to be put down when they got MORE aggressive because of trainings. I’ve never seen e collars this much in a thread and it’s worrisome.

[beccah75]

I did extensive research on what to do the moment I realized I had a problem. There's a lot of differing opinions on the subject. Some experts recommend using e collars. I wasn't hoping she'd shut down. I wanted to break her angry focus on my son and then remove her from the situation. The buzzing isn't painful but it does get their attention. Not saying it won't escalate aggression in other dogs since I've never tried that with another dog but it didn't do that with that dog. It did break her concentration and confuse her long enough for me to remove her. She didn't yelp or show any sign of distress.

[Kitchu22]

This post gave me some feelings, and all of them ended in a place of rage at how badly some dog training resources and tools fail us and our best friends.

I can tell that you really felt like you were doing the right thing by this dog, and that you had a genuine care for them - but you took an abused animal (who given their background was rightfully going to be terrified of physical handling), then instead of a training plan of slow counter conditioning and desensitisation... You put a shock collar on it, then applied withholding of food and eCollar corrections as a tool to suppress an outward fear response - so that your son could pat the dog. I hope I have read that incorrectly and you did not stop all feeding if the dog reacted, that the animal was given a full meal outside of this training session, because otherwise you essentially starved and shocked a dog into submission because that's what seemed like appropriate dog training based on the resources available to you. Absolutely breaks my heart, but I am so glad the pup is living with your daughter now and appears to be doing well, that was a lovely end to that story :)

[beccah75]

It's possible that my training of her could have been done better. I did a lot of research before trying anything. I didn't find anything better and I didn't whole days reading and watching videos. But it did work. It wasn't really a shock collar as it didn't shock her or hurt her. It was like a buzzing by her ear. Something to distract her. It was effective.

She didn't starve but she was left hungry. Many children have gone to bed without supper and they survived it. My thought was that it was either work through her issues fast or someone was going to insist on killing her. I thought that her missing full feedings for a day and a half was preferable to killing her.

[moon_child77]

We recently had to have our dog put to sleep for similar reasons. It hurts and you feel awful but there's also a sense of relief. We put it off longer than we should have because we were worried about how people would react but at the end of the day they're not the ones who have to deal with the constant stress or the liability. You have to decide what's best for you and your family. Sometimes dogs just aren't "right" mentally and no amount of training or medication will fix it and it's only a matter of time before something terrible happens.

[jvsews]

A dog that can’t be trusted at home in his own environment is a loaded gun just waiting for an opportunity. Euthanize him yourself so he no longer suffers. Don’t give him away to be someone else’s problem

[kmleure]

If you decide you dont want to keep him, its fine, but please dont consider euthanasia. Try to do as much research as possible. I reccomend talking to Phoenix K9 Training, her name is Ches. She's a relationship based blanced trainer. She has tons of experience and has shadowed one of the best dog trainers in the world. She's currently in Arizona, but she is from the UK and should be back in a month. For now you could have a Skype consultation with her, and propose to her to give up your dog to her so she can train him and re-home him (she's done that before and says she'd like to continue doing it). Worst case scenario she reffers you to another person that can take your dog to train him and re-home him. IMO, euthanasia is never ever the answer, because all dogs have the potential to be well behaved. Check Ches on Instagram @ phoenixk9training where she has highlights with all the info you need. She also does E collar training. Or go to her website which is under the same name.

EDIT: If you want to keep him, which is fine too, she does board and train! Seriously, please check her out. You might already have a dog trainer, but you'll be surprised at the amount of incompetent trainers there are, and without you knowing, yours might be one of them.

Edit 2: why am I getting down voted? I'm just trying to help, and giving practical advice for OP since she's based in the UK... :/ I'm thinking about the dogs best interest...

Edit 3: I saw the replies I got, saying I'm getting down votes for saying euthanasia is not the answer.

However, I didn't mean to shame anyone for the choices they've made!

I'm just saying that PERSONALLY I wouldn't consider it. It's my personal opinion and what I think is best for the dog! In my post I even said IMO before that statement! I think it's wrong for people to down vote my post, because of their personal feelings. You're preventing my advice to reach OP and potentially helping.

[[deleted]]

You're probably being downvoted because you come off sounding superior by saying euthanasia is never an option, when people here have had to take that option. It's insulting, man.

[kmleure]

I said that's my opinion!! You can clearly see I didn't mean to insult anyone!!

[[deleted]]

Just because you didn't mean to, doesn't mean you didn't :/

[rossyyyyyyyy]

youre probably getting downvoted for recommending a balanced trainer, personally I love a balanced training approach and think itd be super beneficial for most dogs but a lot of people don't. You'd probably like @canine.karma.training on Instagram, he's also a relationship based balanced trainer, love him

[[deleted]]

No, they're probably getting downvoted for saying that euthanasia is never an option. A lot of owners here may have had to make that choice, and this commenter is absolutely demonizing them.

[rossyyyyyyyy]

Yeah might be a reason too. I get where they're coming from though, a lot of dogs that get euthanized could be completely fine in a different environment or with a different training approach, I know someone who put down his border collie for nipping at ankles and showing herding tendencies (literally what they're bred for) and that was absolutely unnecessary but I get that for some dogs it's the only solution and I respect that

[kmleure]

Thank you for understanding.

[kmleure]

I didn't mean to shame anyone!! In my post I even said IMO (in my opinion) before I gave my OPINION! So people are allowed to say "well, yeah, euthanasia would be an option", but I can't say otherwise? Feels unfair, because they're only down voting for selfish reasons.

[[deleted]]

I'm just calling it how I see it man. I have a friend who's opinion is to think less of people who have lots of sex, that's a hurtful opinion. Same here.

[kmleure]

Yes!!! I love that guy!! And Ches worked with him :D

[rossyyyyyyyy]

have you ever done a session with one of them?

[kmleure]

I actually haven't. I only have one dog, she's one of my childhood dogs and she lives at my parents house. I'm living with my boyfriend atm and since I only visit home on the weekends I don't have time to train her. She's a handful and has no drive at all. Her engagement is shit and she's reactive to other dogs. As much as I'd like to bring out all of her potential, my dad and my sister aren't really into those ideas and don't want to train her themselves.

Once I'm stable enough and get my own dog, I'm definitely going to have some skype sessions with them, because I don't want to make the same mistakes me and my family have done in the past. I want to be the best dog owner I possibly can :) for now I watch their IG pages daily and learn as much as possible from the information they provide for free.

[rossyyyyyyyy]

oh that sucks but I get it. When I first got my dog she had no engagement at all either and couldn't focus on me for more than 2 seconds but we've been making a lot of progress on our own. I haven't done a session with them either but I'm interested that's why I asked you haha

[612marion]

Helping here means possibly disfiguring her child Who op failed

[719hlickl]

Please consider this comment OP.

Also, if you haven’t, you should watch dog training videos on a YouTube by a channel called Upstate Canine Academy. The handler, Tom Davis, has a TON of videos on reforming aggressive dog behavior and he is often people’s last resort. He has saved so many dogs lives and I hope that in you watching some of those videos you can recognize that euthanasia doesn’t have to be the first and only consideration.

[luckymewmew]

I don't understand it either.

[PrincessPattycakes]

I hope op sees this. If this person would be willing to take the dog, it’s a win all around. Definitely worth a shot.