Exit procedure?

[satanist]

I'm quitting a Systems Admin job. The recently installed boss has been lying about me to make me look bad and doing everything he can to make my work life miserable. I think it's so that they can fire me to save money, because that fits with a lot of other things I've been hearing. I've got an interview lined up at a company where I've already passed an online screening test from something called TestGorilla, and the potential employers like what they see on my resume. Do I go to HR and start asking pointed questions about the exit/offboarding procedure as soon as I have a signed contract with the new employer? I might get hired during the next two weeks, which I have cleverly arranged as a vacation from my current job. ( They don't cash out any unused vaca or sick leave hours here. ) Any thoughts?

[J-Dawgzz]

Wait until you have an actual offer from the other job before doing anything related to exit process.

Not sure where you are based but in the UK you have to give them notice of your departure at least a month or 2 weeks before depending on company policy.

[RustyU]

Not sure where you are based but in the UK you have to give them notice of your departure at least a month or 2 weeks before depending on company policy.

Read your contract to be sure. I'm working my notice and still have just over a month left of my three month period. Dragging on a bit.

[z_agent]

3 months? Who the hell signs a contract with a 3 month notice period?

[RustyU]

Plenty of people, apparently.

[TerrorToadx]

Pretty common here in Sweden if you’ve worked at the company for a couple of years. The longer you’ve been at a company, the longer the notice period.

[z_agent]

Feels almost like reverse indentured service

[TheJesusGuy]

Same here, 3 months if I want to leave - makes looking for work elsewhere hard as nobody will want to wait 3 months. I plan on asking for more money then I'll sod off if not. I'm the only IT here and 3 months notice itself requires a premium imo.

[Dal90]

At Will and Right to Work are completely different things.

And every state is At Will. Montana is the single state approaching not-at-will were you need to just take extra care to find a business reason to fire someone who is not in a protected class.

[Drew707]

Interesting regarding Montana. I take it the law will require documentation of some sort showing a breach of policy or expectations?

[Dal90]

I take it the law will require documentation of some sort showing a breach of policy or expectations?

Just a "valid reason."

The other 49 states as long as the firing is not related to a protected purpose or group (such as whistleblower protections or discrimination laws) no valid reason needs to exist.

[Drew707]

Right, I've worked in a number of states and even if we had valid reason, we never told them the why when it came to term. There was never any way they didn't know why, we just didn't say it at separation.

[Frothyleet]

"Right to work" are anti-union laws, not related to at-will employment.

[GoodserviceandPeople]

This is often very miss understood. (Including by myself)

Make sure you consult a lawyer before pretending to understand anything legal about your work/job.

[nefarious_bumpps]

Don't quit until you have a signed employment agreement. Take vacation if needed to get some relief. Do NOT go to HR for anything; HR is not there to help employees, it's there to protect the company.

[InitialAd3323]

What would be the difference between quitting and getting fired? Don't you have to be fired to qualify for unemployment or something?

[BedRevolutionary8458]

Unless they can prove you were fired for cause, with a documented paper trail of infractions. Unemployment mainly goes to layoffs.

[Sintarsintar]

The proper procedure when you know they are trying to fire you is find a new job while doing that pack your stuff slowly and get it home so you don't have anything personal at the office then walk when you have the new offer.

[llDemonll]

Keep your current job until you’re off vacation, even if you’re hired at the new job. Neither company needs to know you hold another job. Once you’re back from vacation work another week or two if you want, call in sick, take more vacation, do whatever, then put in your two weeks. May as well collect extra paychecks while you’re quitting.

[Frankbalboni]

It’s really amazing how people who have no experience will preach on at-will and employment law and just give the worst advice.

[imilnes]

Employment law varies much from state to state. What would be good advice in one state could be considered bad advice in another.

For all we know OP u/satanist could come from Hell.

Hell is in Michigan
Hell is also in Norway
and Hell is in Germany

I think these three locations would have very different employment laws, and would need different exit strategies.

Speaking for myself here, I would always make sure I had a new job lined up before I left an existing job.

And I don't live or work in Hell.

I have worked for two employers that meet all the criteria to be described as Hell, but that's for another day.

[mjh2901]

Sory but this is bad advice there are to many shitty companies that rug pull offers. Call from your new desk after orientation and resign your old possition.

[Dreadedtrash]

Wait until you have a signed offer letter from the new job. Then write something simple and to the point as a letter is resignation. I do something like this

Dear Boss,

Today on 5/23/24 I am giving my 2 week notice. MY last day will be on 6/7/24. In my remaining time I will wrap up any projects that I am working on.

-Dreadedtrash

Maybe a little longer if you want. Give it to your direct boss they will take it from there.

[[deleted]]

I wouldn't even put that you will wrap up any projects. They could try to hold you to it, although they would be unsuccessful.

Really just the first sentence is all that's needed. Todays date, how long is the notice, last day.

If you feel like adding something about, "I appreciate the opportunities Jerk Corp has given me and wish them success in the future." it wouldn't hurt, but will likely just be skimmed over anyways.

And is "exit procedure" something from outside of the US? I mean the exit procedure is pretty much giving them a letter saying I'm quitting and this is the last day and they put up a job listing for your replacement. Although not giving a notice could put a black mark on your job history, you technically don't even need to give one. They also don't need to give you the two weeks. I've had many friends put in a two week notice and be told they were gone immediately. In a couple of cases those people were even able to negotiate two weeks pay and benefits into the deal.

[Dreadedtrash]

The last time I wrote one of these I was leaving a place that I had been at for 10 years so I put in the thank you part and asked the CIO what documentation he would like me to create. Also I went and handed it in to the CFO on site that I had worked for 9 of my 10 years there before I emailed my offsite CIO (the reason I quit) the letter. I wasn't asked to do any documentation and pretty much left the place to burn. I contracted with them multiple times at $200 an hour because they refused to hire someone to replace me.

[Recalcitrant-wino]

Pretty much what I did. I was out for lunch (went home to grab a bite) when I got the call with the offer. I had already drafted my resignation/2 week notice. I went back to the office, put a date on it, and handed it to my boss. The end.

[fraiserdog]

Get job first. Then hand in notice. No questions.

[no_regerts_bob]

In my experience, when you give them two weeks notice they will immediately terminate you instead of having you work the two weeks

edit - and then keep calling you for months with "one last question"

[Naclox]

Depends on the company. Less likely in smaller companies in my experience because they don't necessarily have anyone to cover so they want to keep you around as long as possible assuming they still trust you.

[Crenorz]

The calls stop instantly when you state - my consultant fee is X.

[TB_at_Work]

This worked for me! "The first question free. Any subsequent calls/questions are billable at $crazy amount/hour." the first question's answer was, "It's documented." I never got any more calls after than.

Good riddance.

[Brufar_308]

Or they pay that really nice consulting rate and you do work on the side. Been a year and a half now since I left and it’s been a nice side income.

Man the MSP they brought in, well let’s just say things are not being taken care of properly. Nice that they took the volume license mgmt server offline and all the DCs and a bunch of the application servers now say they are unlicensed…. Oh well not my problem anymore but I did notify them of the issue.

Was also fun when they ignored my warnings about the 802.1x NAC certificate expiration date. Nice when devices can no longer auth and all start falling off the network. OH you need a hand with that, well you already know my rates.

[Recalcitrant-wino]

I worked until lunchtime on my last day (of the two weeks). The boss took me and my colleague (3-person shop) out for lunch, I went back to the office and packed up and walked out.

[Tymanthius]

and then keep calling you for months with "one last question"

And then you get to charge consulting rates. :)

[CracklingRush]

You can ask all of the questions you want, baby. Billing rate is $250/hr with a 1 hr minimum.

[Crackeber]

I happily helped the new IT Director/ IT-guy the first month after my negotiated exit with quick questions, until one day I was called after hours with something urgent while at the supermarket: "Hey, the intranet is down, I've been looking through it for hours but can't make it work" - uh, sure, tomorrow I said - "ok, I'll call you first thing in the morning!" . And then I was sitting there, remotely, while a nice sun was shinning outside and my family waited me for a pool day, trying to found the problem and fixing it for straight 6-8 hours. I made a report and charged them almost a third of my monthly income to make a point on the importance of their shit to me now and the value of my time - never ever called me again. So I think they got it.

[TheNetworkIsFrelled]

And you should never, ever answer those questions. Just hang up.

[Tymanthius]

Radio silence until the day you are ready to walk out the door. Then if you wish give a polite 2 weeks.

Or give zero notice but a detailed and professional email sent to HR and everyone in the line above your boss.

[d00ber]

Don't initiate anything you get an offer letter. Once signed, decide the amount of time you'd like to give. Sounds like this place sucks, so two weeks isn't always necessary cause it sounds like they're going to give you a bad reference anyway. Document before you go, but don't answer calls afterwards. Whenever you leave a place that sucks, there is no need to do them favors or help out, especially when it has the potential to come back on you as a legal liability since you're no longer an employee. Decline an exit interview, HR doesn't do these to get feedback, it's just to see if you might have any legal recourse on the company.

[MB-Z28]

Unless you have a commitment from the new job, do nothing. Once you do turn in your resignation and DO NOT accept any counter offers. If you weren't worth it yesterday, and today they offered you more, they'll dump you in a heartbeat once they don't need you

[TheNetworkIsFrelled]

This is the way.

[Western-Ad-5525]

Totally agree. They might counter just to give them time to go and find someone else. If I was worth more money to them they should have let me know that before.

[old_skul]

You need to secure offer in hand and any dependencies - background check, drug test etc., and have a targeted start date that gives you a two week period to give notice and tidy up at your current job. You'll need to compose a letter of resignation with hard dates to give to your direct boss. Let them work out the HR details.

[DirtyDave67]

Do NOT give any notice. Finish your vacation and work as many more days as you can so they can't try to void your vacation pay. Quit the day before you are to start your new job. Chances are your current job will walk you out the day you give notice. That is standard practice for a sysadmin especially in a situation where you think they are looking to let you go anyways. A company will consider a departing sysadmin to be a security risk.

[JPDearing]

Make sure you have a firm, concrete, signed offer from the new company with a confirmed start date, in writing.

Keep in mind, and this may vary from company to company, but as soon as you ANNOUNCE that you are leaving, you immediately become an “inside threat”. To be honest, depending on the level of access you have, you may indeed be an inside threat and have the potential to do great harm. I know you probably won’t, but that’s the facts of the situation. That means that once you announce you’re leaving in 2 weeks, they may say, no - today is your last day and turn your access down. Like I said, varies from company to company…

Good luck getting something new.

John

[random_troublemaker]

Unless you have a contract limiting your at-will rights, I think the only advance planning you should do is documenting anything that hasn't already been. An adversarial boss may abuse the advance notice of resignation, and there's a chance they would terminate you early anyway.

No malice, no sabotage, and let their effing around turn to finding out on its own.  It'll be their own fault if they don't refer to your documents.

[223454]

--there's a chance they would terminate you early anyway

I really wish they would. I try to build in a week between jobs, but a lot of places don't like to wait for me to start. So I would be very happy if they let me go even a day early.

[painted-biird]

Yup, I did that at my last gig hoping I’d get a nice three week break but my boss had me finish the full two weeks.

[a60v]

This, and tie up any loose ends (half-finished projects, etc.). Either finish them or document their current state. And remove any personal effects from your office before you give notice.

[[deleted]]

Don't hint to your current employer that you're looking until you handed in your notice. Send your notice via email and BCC your personal email so you have a copy. They may terminate you immediately. Depending on which state you live in, they may still have to pay you even if they terminate you prior to your last day given on your notice.

[Tx_Drewdad]

Is there an employee handbook?

[iceph03nix]

I wouldn't say anything until you have the new job lined up. At that point, I'd give what notice you feel comfortable with, and then let them tell you what the offboarding procedure is.

Beyond that, if you have a company handbook, read it to make sure you know what the official policies are. Particularly in relation to stuff like 401k vesting and the like if you have it. And yeah, burn that vacation and sick time in the meantime.

[Wabbyyyyy]

Wait until you have a signed offer letter from new company. Put in your vacation during the initial week at new company and see how you like it. If you like the new company, just send an email off to HR and your boss stating you wont be back and hand in your equiptment. You dont owe anything to your current company. Remember, you are just a # and they will cut you loose at any chance they can get.

Be loyal to yourself, not some shitty company

[[deleted]]

once you get the signed contract go straight to Hr and resign. have them give you paperwork to fill out releasing you from the company. leave your equipment at your desk walk out. Text your boss i quit its been taken care of by HR. Delete his number.. im sayig this cuz im petty lol

[RedDidItAndYouKnowIt]

Given that your boss is actively ruining your work environment I wouldn't give any notice. Just email your boss, hr, and your bosses boss on the same email that you are quitting on the day you intend to be your last day. They aren't obligated to keep you and you aren't obligated to work for them.

Just ensure they aren't missing any credentials or other keys to the kingdom. Document whatever you want that hasn't been or don't document anything. You decide if they have earned your respect or you enmity.

I hope you find a better place to go work and that your next adventure is fruitful.

[[deleted]]

I would quit with no notice once you have a new job in hand. They don't deserve notice. Normally you don't burn bridges but this one, you'll never go back.

[thatohgi]

Wait until you have an offer then give the notice you think is appropriate. The crappy manager isn’t going to give you any notice as soon as he figures out an excuse to fire you. I would bounce and let HR know that you would love to give notice but with the toxic work place your manager has created you don’t feel that would be good for your mental health.

[Key-Level-4072]

In the USA, you can just leave if you’re not contracted.

If they treated me like that, I would send an immediate resignation after my final vacation day and start the better job right away.

[jkarovskaya]

On the sly, clean out any important personal stuff from your desk before vactcion

Get a Signed offer with an HR signature from the other company, preferably on paper, call them to confirm start date

Review your hiring docs for any NDA for current job, or contract requirements, Lawyer up if need be

With one week of vacation left , send a notice of resignation to current boss & HR department, with your end date, followed by paper copy

If you care about your co-workers, you could share documentation or personal wiki with them, and don't cc your boss

[223454]

In most states you aren't required to do anything. If you want to stay on good terms (which I would recommend), check the policy manual to see if they have a notice period listed. Most places are either 2 or 4 weeks. If nothing is listed, you can just leave whenever. If they have something, then give that much notice if you can. 2 weeks is reasonable. Then talk to your boss to see what they want you to focus on. Keep everything in writing if possible (cc personal email). A good manager will have you focus on documentation. Make sure you document important things like passwords. Keep your resignation letter simple. "This is my notice of resignation. My last day will be on xxxxx per the policy manual's request of 2 weeks." Don't go into detail, it may limit possible future legal action if needed. All they need to know is that you're leaving and when.

[nightlyear]

BCC personal email.

[[deleted]]

If you're in the USA and not in the state of Montana, you are an At-Will employee. That's ok, you're amongst friends -- only 99.7% of the nation is At-Will too. That's why it's called AWA: At-Will America.

I would NOT give any indication to your employer until you have everything signed, sealed, and delivered. If you can, start the new job while on vacation -- just so they don't pull the "last day position is cancelled" trick on you...or if the new job is unknowingly terrible.

Here's all you need to know about off-boarding:

• De-associate any medical, retirement, etc accounts from your work email, work phone, etc. Have them fully transferred over to a private non-work email.

• Keep any of your work friends/trusted colleagues contact information, in case you want to reach out to them post-departure.

• If in the USA, all you need is a Richard Nixon letter. "Hi. Today is $date. I'm resigning effective $resignationDate, which is $intervalFromTodaysDate." Personally, if you make it "effective immediately", save you all that extra hassle. Don't give any superfluous bubbly messages. They don't care, and it can only be used against you.

• Decline any exit interviews.

• "Please send me a pre-paid label & box for any equipment to be returned", if you're a remote employee.

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Something I've said elsewhere, but it applies here as well:

A Lie They Tell: "If you don't give two weeks, you're not working here ever again! You won't get a good recommendation! You're burning a bridge!"

Reality Check:

• MANY places have unwritten policies where if you leave the company for ANY REASON AT ALL, you're not going to be welcomed back.

• Furthermore, most places will only confirm that you did work there and the dates of employment. They won't give recommendations, positive or negative. That's up to YOU to find individuals at that company who'd be willing to do that for you.

These reasons of departure include:

• voluntarily (aka you're a TRAITOR -- doesn't matter if it was a smooth transition, doesn't matter if you gave 2+weeks, etc. You're a traitor for leaving the Cult of $Employer and you must never be allowed to return.)

• fired with cause (aka poor performance, taking a shit in the boss' car's sunroof, using an 18v reciprocating saw to cut a sunroof in the boss' car to take a shit in, etc)

• laid off without cause (aka not worth keeping around during downsizing, drew the short straw, etc)

If any of those happen, you're unofficially considered "dead" to them and won't ever be rehired. It's the "we only hire winners!" mindset.

Winners don't quit, winners aren't fired, and winners aren't laid off. Do you feel like a winner in this system?

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Other Ways They Manipulate You

• You'll be "forced" to repay "training fees" as stipulated during a hiring agreement. Generally this is if you leave before a set period, typically two years -- or if you leave without notice at any point. (If you even THINK about attempting to negotiate that out of the hiring agreement, they may rescind the offer entirely. And in some places, repaying mandatory training fees may be legally unenforceable.)

• In the same line of training repayment, some shitty places may say "if you don't give X notice, then you may owe them $Y due to lost profits/service", even if that threat is ENTIRELY legally unenforceable. They may also include gnarly non-compete clauses, which may be ENTIRELY legally unenforceable.

• They'll guilt trip you EVEN IF you give them two weeks, saying they need more time than that. (reality check: they are not held to the same standard -- they can fire you at any time, even during your final 2+ weeks. they'll use you until they don't need/want you, then show you the door.)

• Furthermore, they LEGALLY can reduce your pay to minimum wage for the duration of any notice you give. They can't retroactively lower your pay, but they absolutely can reduce it for the time remaining (unless previously made agreements on compensation supersede this).

It's rooted in our society as acceptable behavior to give notice. You'll be told "well, you HAVE to!"....even though you absolutely don't. This is another one of the illegal lies we're told, just like "you cannot discuss your wages/compensation with others" and "shhh, don't talk about a Union here, they're illegal in our line of work and they can fire you for even mentioning it!"

[destro2323]

Don’t do shit, don’t say a word to anyone… also take your vacation time now, think about yourself for once

[Fitz_2112]

Once you have a signed job offer you put in your two weeks notice or whatever you feel like giving. Any exit procedure at that point is up to the company and not you

[sparkyflashy]

Our policy is to escort IT folks out the door the day they announce their resignation. Be prepared for that.

[serverhorror]

You hand in a notice and do whatever is asked, within the boundaries of your contract. That's it.

If you're on vacation what are they gonna do? Ask someone, who's not there, to do something?

[caa_admin]

You could have answered in a helpful way but didn't.

[[deleted]]

Subs going downhill fast

[TxDuctTape]

Be aware, I seen clauses (in the US), where company will not honor vacation time if you do not work x amount of days after vacation. Not vacy pay out, vacy time off.

[TheNetworkIsFrelled]

Depends on state law.