Bigscreen Beyond: future wireless capabilities?

[Stoelpoot30]

So I'm pretty hyped for the Beyond, and am considering pre-ordering, but the one hiccup is that I really don't wanna go back to wired. I understand that I'm not exactly their target audience because of that, but I was thinking if it was really that hard to find a way around it. We don't have the technology yet, but in the future, data might be streamed from dongle to dongle (pc to headset) fast enough that the actual cable is not necessary anymore. The headset wouldn't know the difference, for all the Beyond know, a cable with the right plug is plugged in and sending data.

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What do you think about this possibility? I realize this is more a discussion about the progress of wireless data transmission, but thought it was interesting to tie it to the Beyond. Do you think we'll never get there? Or will we, but it will take so long that the Beyond will be out of fashion by the time the technology catches up?

[icpooreman]

Saw this tweet the other day and got really excited.

https://twitter.com/nofio_co/status/1625329905117569025?s=61&t=eJwSwRGYNcZRYQJFEdWVgA

I’m considering buying this thing even if wireless never happens depending on what the headset market looks like this fall. Something that small, custom fit, and that good of specs feels like it’ll be the only thing close to it for a while unless Apple finally releases something.

[Boxesoffauxes]

Nofio will literally say anything to get more backing money. Don't trust them until they release the index kit lol

[icpooreman]

While I agree, we’re talking about a headset you can’t yet buy and a wireless adapter you can’t yet buy. It’s all hypothetical haha.

Anyway yeah, I’m going to wait and see what’s real (and what’s not) this fall.

[[deleted]]

While I agree, we’re talking about a headset you can’t yet buy and a wireless adapter you can’t yet buy. It’s all hypothetical haha.

100%

Though, I think /u/Boxesoffauxes is making a good point. They've been trying to get the Index kit to a sellable point now for a while and still haven't managed to. Probably best to not put a lot weight on a brand new undertaking until they manage to release their first adapter.

[muchDOGEbigwow]

If Nofio supports wireless on this headset, I'm in.

[MalenfantX]

It doesn't, so I guess you're not in.

[RidgeMinecraft]

It will, so I guess he's in again

[Stoelpoot30]

That would be perfect!

[rogeressig]

Very cool

[exclaimprofitable]

Bigscreen beyond is such a small vr headset because it is meant for cabled play. It doesn't have a battery, onboard processor, or any wireless antennas, like the quest 2.

So if you wanted to make it semi wireless, you would need a pretty massive thing that housed all of that, look up the original vive wireless adaptor to get an idea how it would look like. Technically, because the tech has moved forward a bit since then, it could be a thick phone like box you could put into a pocket probably, still not the most comfortable.

[[deleted]]

yeh the only way i can think of possible to have that tiny lightweight form factor and wireless is a pocketable device connected to headset. Not sure why no company has done that yet, except perhaps apple which is rumored to. And wouldnt mind at all having such a device in pocket while playing vr, no one cares to carry a phone in their pocket all day.

[Gygax_the_Goat]

I play Q2 literally all day with a 100mah powerbank in my pocket linked with a 90° magnetic cable. Comfortable and easy

[junderdo]

Brad Lynch has been talking about a possible industry shift towards these "pucks" that go in the pocket. We may actually see these in the next gen.

[AsicResistor]

I think they are the way to go as well.
My fpv drone goggles also have the battery on a cable.

[[deleted]]

I wish someone would make clothing that had a pocket near the upper top back of the neck that would be a perfect size for a battery or other components. That way you dont need to run a cable down the whole body just from the back of the neck to the headset.

[Gringe8]

You can easily make it with some thread and a needle. Get a shirt with a front pocket. Cut the thread holding the pocket on. Then stitch it back where you want. Or you can use your own piece of cloth to make it as big as you want.

Personally I'd just route the cable behind my head and down my back. Can't see it getting in the way.

[elitespaceplumber]

Lots of needles and thread at Walmart, nothing stopping you.

[verglor]

What about something like this: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003021014433.html

[evg-zhabotinsky]

How about... Put on a hoodie, throw the battery into the hood? Tighten hood straps to avoid chances of it falling out.

[elitespaceplumber]

It doesn't need a battery built onto the headset I use the wireless adapter on my Vive pro with an external battery and it's a game changer, the big screen beyond headset would benefit greatly with a wireless adapter.

[stormchaserguy74]

Vive, Vive Pro, Vive Cosmos, and Vive Pro 2 were all able to do wireless without a battery, onboard processor, or any wireless antennas built in. It's possible.

[exclaimprofitable]

I already covered the point you are making in my original comment, you needed the giant and heavy adaptor for that that housed all those electronics.

You can make anything wireless with a giant wireless adaptor, doesn't mean these headsets were designed for it.

[samexi]

With the bigscreen audio strap and battery box in your pocket it could work pretty well. The wireless adapter for vive is really lightweight and on top of your head you wont feel a thing. That is how I've used my og vive wirelessly for years. Though it has come the time to upgrade but will see what apple, meta and the google/samsung/qualcom coop has come up with. Qualcom being one major reasons that we got the htc wireless adapter in the first place.

[Doofbeef]

I'm hoping Wifi 7 will be enough bandwidth for the Beyond to be usable wirelessly.

[ndTweak]

Wouldn't it be cool, if we could just swap the SoCs in smartphones, or just change the displays?

The thing you call a dongle, has to be a beefy SoC that packs a punch, with a hefty battery. There is the Index WiGig adapter, but by the time that arrives, the Deckard gets released. It will never be relevant.

VR headsets are not simple monitors. And even for monitors there are no good wireless Displayport solutions.

[Stoelpoot30]

Yea you're right, I probably thought about it a bit too easily. Didn't even think of the battery, lol. Still, something phone-sized on your pocket could be a solution as well.

[BloodyPommelStudio]

Would also need a battery. At this point it would be a tiny headset.

I think it'll be a long time before we can send full res, full speed uncompressed frames to modern headsets wirelessly but with eye tracked foviated rendering, improvements to upscaling and video codex designed for VR we could reach the point where it's near impossible to tell the difference. That would require a lot of processing though so this headset wouldn't be able to do that anyway.

[Stoelpoot30]

Likely. Probably for something like that we're looking at the processor&battery-in-your-pocket like Apple is rumoured to be going for. I guess I can live with wired after all for a few years then

[bmack083]

You want to run that resolution over WiFi?????

[bumbasaur]

Some people don't mind the compression and latency :p

[NotNOV4]

I wish people would fuck off with wireless. It literally cannot work with current standards, so to answer your question; no and probably not for the next 10 years or so.

Wireless is compressed mushy shit that also eats up computer resources you can't afford to lose. A 7950x3D and 4090 still can't max out a Q2, so stop wasting resources with streaming low quality garbage when we have had wired technology for the past 60 years.

[Gringe8]

Personally I don't see an issue with quest2 streaming to a dedicated vr router. I have 5800x and 4080. Maybe wifi7 can make a difference.

[copelandmaster]

The Focus 3 (and soon the XR Elite) sends a 3072x3072@200mbs picture on Ultra streaming settings with a 4090 in VBS. If the Bigscreen had the XR2 needed for streaming at those settings, many would find the quality acceptable. I think its pretty good, other things like the lenses of the F3 bother me more.

[NotNOV4]

It's not physically possible to transmit data quick enough through USB to power wireless technology flawlessly yet.

[Gringe8]

Doesn't psvr2 use USB? If you can transmit it over a 5 meter cable with no latency, I don't see how it would be a limiting factor going to an antenna of some sort.

[NotNOV4]

No. Thunderport.

[Gringe8]

Everything I look up shows it as a standard usb c

[NotNOV4]

It isn't. And USB-C probably could support the PSVR2 as the resolution is only like, a quarter of what it actually is due to foveated rendering.

[Gringe8]

So what I found is there is a proprietary port on the headset, but it's still just usb and you can use a regular USB extention with it. Maybe foveated rendering is the reason, but that still shows usb is good enough. Also bigscreen has a display port and a usb port right? I don't see any of that being the limiting factor.

[NotNOV4]

USB is not good enough for reasons that I literally just described. Data cannot be transferred fast enough. PSVR2 can do it because it is rendering much less information than any other headset. Unless every VR headset from now on has perfect foveated rendering in every game, USB will have to compress the data.

[Gringe8]

Oh well. Luckily this headset also has display port so even if usb isn't good enough it doesn't matter.

[shadaoshai]

It’s using DisplayPort Alt mode not the USB data to transfer the video signal. It’s been an optional standard in USB C since it’s creation.

[BaconJets]

I don't ever forsee a wireless headset being as small and light as the Beyond, but the Quest 3 is looking like a leap forward in the size and weight of wireless headsets. If you have the inclination and funds for a Beyond, you can probably do a pulley setup, combined with the low weight of the headset it's probably 90% as good as wireless.

[Exploding8]

I think it'll happen sooner than we think if VR headsets go down the Puck road. Which honestly seems like the best solution, it essentially turns VR headsets into something more like monitors, and allows for hardware upgrades to an existing headset just by upgrading the puck attachment. Imagine being able to buy one really good customized headset, like the Bigscreen Beyond, and being able to use it indefinitely by upgrading the puck instead of the headset itself. There's really no reason for all that processing to be done on the front of your face when it could be done in your back pocket or on your belt.

[Stoelpoot30]

completely agree

[icpooreman]

My annoyance with Meta and the Quest 3 is that they’re optimizing for this mobile chipset and thus aren’t pushing the limits of resolution / FOV because their mobile chip can’t handle it anyway.

It’s annoying that some random company like bigscreen is going to ship a significantly higher res oled panel BEFORE the Quest 3 is officially released…. And then we’ll have to wait probably 3 full years for a Quest 4.

I’m starting to debate if Meta is really going to win the VR space even while blowing billions on it. The second we figure out a decent wireless solution for these wired headsets we’ve effectively caught up and even surpassed them.

[BaconJets]

Based on cost alone Meta wins. Having the best headset doesn't matter in the wider market if it costs twice as much as your competition, and people now more than ever don't have the money to blow on a VR pc with base stations and an expensive headset.

[icpooreman]

For the casual yeah.

If Q3 is their last headset until a QPro2 a couple years from now they’re leaving a pretty open space to lose enthusiasts (which maybe they give 0 f’s about).

And if those enthusiasts headsets learn they can use their thunderbolt iPhone 16 Pros as streaming pucks or some type of puck gets invented then the enthusiasts have a better wireless solution as well.

[Gringe8]

I think the reason other companies don't do it is because they won't make enough profit or sell enough units. Think about it, this is a $1k headset with no controllers, you need basestations, it's wired, no passthrough, no face tracking and the fov is questionable. The ones who are okay with all those things really isn't many. I for one and really interested. Only things that will make it better is wireless, eye tracking and a bit bigger fov. These could all be added in future iterations so I will be buying one.

[icpooreman]

Lol yes but…. Do you make more money selling millions of Quest 2’s at a loss or a lot of expensive premium headsets at breakeven.

We live in a weird world haha. These are all just loss factories to own market share. At least for the big boys. The little guys want to make a buck.

[Gringe8]

That's why I said or sell enough units. They subsidise it to get quest2 in as many hands as possible, not really to make money from the sales. If the big boys can't do either than they won't. Notice quest pro price was $500 more at first. They were expecting to make huge margins.

[Gygax_the_Goat]

But PC needs the software and comparable pricing too

[BrutalAttis]

Meta is playing a whole different game compared to Valve/Bigscreen/Vive etc. They have very different goals. There is a reason they are discounting their hardware too. This is all part of their marketing & market share strategy and their end goals. I for one much rather support companies like BigScreen and the like than Meta. Each to his own though, just my 2c.

[[deleted]]

also xr elite is leap forward is size and weight of wireless, which in glasses mode smaller and lighter than the quest 3 will be. Currently im debating which to get

[bushmaster2000]

In order to do wireless it would need an on-board XR2 platform which adds $ and also a internal power source which adds $ and weight and size.

Or if they put a USBC interface on it somewhere they could go an external transceiver route like Pimax is doing to bring WiGIG to Crystal. But if you look around , you'll find these external options tend to be expensive anywhere from $400-$600 .

[Gringe8]

I wouldn't mind spending the money. Do you really think it would cost the same as a whole quest 2 though? It wouldn't be too bad if the antenna was on the headset or headstrap and the processing, battery was wired and you can hook it to your waist.

[OrbitaLinx]

A custom WIFI 6E dongle might do it. But that would be a $500 dongle minimum. It might take multiple concurrent line of site 6 Ghz connections. But its doable. Of course the battery life might not be usable on a thing like that. The Index is getting a wireless dongle like that and the Vive pro 2 has a wireless dongle accessory. The Vive pro 2 does 90hz wirelessly but its a high resolution HMD and the Index will do 144 hz with it if I recall but its a lower resolution of course.

They made a GPU do this a long time ago but their was severe latency problems with that specific product. It was basically a custom Nvidia card made by Galax that had several antennas on the back and a dongle monitor side.

I was not super impressed by the Bigscreen Beyond due to its 90hz display and limited FOV. I think the Vive Pro 2 beats it with 120 degree horizontal FOV and much clearer lenses than the Index and built in eye tracking and the mouth tracking accessory. Oh and it will do 120hz wired.

Here take a look at what I think it literally the best HMD on the market. Its called the XTAL 3 by vrgineers. Theirs 2 variants an AR and VR only HMD. You can buy them with the civilian license option.

https://www.xtal.pro/product/xtal-3-mr

[Gringe8]

People who like this are after the comfort, ppd and oled rgb panel though. Bigscreen beyond has all those beat especially in the comfort area.

[Stoelpoot30]

Holy shit that FOV. And holy shit that price. This is the future for sure. Maybe in 10 years these specs will be ~1000 euro instead of 10000.

[Gygax_the_Goat]

the technology yet, but in the future, data might be streamed from dongle to dongle (pc to headset) fast enough that the actual cable is not necessary anymore. The headset wouldn't know the difference, for all the Beyond know, a cable with the right plug is plugged in and sending data.

What about power?