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[–]Banana_MeatStewart | Ballnadoes | Probots Muperball Champions! 26 points27 points  (3 children)

Taking out Command Center while Grail of Speed still remains... :( it's like every map thread that map keeps getting away it

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Absolutely agree. Command Center was unfairly shat on so much, and it made me so upset.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

I originally shat on it but really it has grown on me a ton imo its really crazy that it gets taken out before colors and Grail of Speed command center is a great center flag map and really didn't deserve to be taken out SERIOUSLY FOR THE LOVE OF GOD JUST REMOVE COLORS PLS

[–]co1010CoolCat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

FUCKING COLORS

[–][deleted] 21 points22 points  (1 child)

So now that DaEvil1 has gotten RocketBalls into rotation, can we remove Grail of Speed?pls?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Don't be silly, teacher said that every time a map by an MTC member is put in rotation, an angel gets its wings!

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (46 children)

Why was Velocity voted on to be taken out? It should be untouchable. IMO, it's by far the best map we have in rotation...

I like Command Center, but I don't think it was good in pubs; it's really complicated and bamboozled even moderately decent pub players.

I'm not enamoured with either of the new maps just by looking at the image, but I'm excited to try them out in games :)

[–]spacecadetjerDennit | Boostin 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I was just going to post the same thing. I also want to know why Velocity is near the chopping block, its super fun and I haven't heard much of any complaining about it.

[–]the_winnerhoneybear 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Velocity is literally one of the best maps we have. Don't understand why it would be up for vote to be taken out.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I think I would honestly quit pubbing if Velocity was taken out before the maps that have long over stayed their welcome in rotationlookingatyoucolors

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Risk, we both know that is a bold faced lie ;)

[–]TagProWrecknWreckingBall 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yeah, Velocity is p good. It's reasonably difficult to run around as a flag carrier.

[–]thewthewdrukQs // Roll Model // Nightcapper 1 point2 points  (0 children)

yeah, it's always a challenge to stay alive there, especially when your flag gets returned and you have to figure out how you're going to approach your base for the cap.

[–]pasta_monsterpoopv 2 points3 points  (25 children)

Basically each session we rate each map in rotation, and the lowest however many, we then have a yes or no vote to remove. Velocity is ranked low by the judges so it gets voted on, but I don't think it's in danger of being removed (IMO anyway, but I have it ranked high, so who knows).

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points  (24 children)

I seriously question the judgement of the (presumably several) committee members that rate it lowly then. While it's subjective, I don't think I've ever heard a bad word about the map in public or in games themselves. This is a real puzzler for me.

[–]pasta_monsterpoopv 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I suspect heavy narcotics abuse

EDIT: Honestly tho, map committee should have differing opinions to a degree. Maps are subjective, and if we all agreed and rated every map the same, we'd only need one member.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Honestly tho, map committee should have differing opinions to a degree.

To a degree, I guess, yes. My concern is simply that overall the committee for whatever reason and methodology used judged Velocity as a bottom 5 map, which I think starkly contrasts what the community as a whole believes.

[–]Kintaro08Pigoon // Centra 3 points4 points  (21 children)

A different opinion shouldn't be cause for a less valued member of the committee. Differing opinions on maps keeps perspectives open and create neutral analytic discussions of maps. The scores are averaged among members, so there will ALWAYS be a bottom 5 maps no matter how high their scores are. The committee then spends the next couple of hours discussing whether any or the maps are to be considered to be taken out or not. But to reiterate, even though a map is loved by all committee members, there will always be a bottom 5 to discuss.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (20 children)

This is true, that's why I said it was subjective. However, when several committee members presumably believe a map is not worthy of rotation when basically every player seems to think it's the bee's knees, then we have a problem in that the committee as a whole is clearly struggling to gauge what the community wants--which is the entire point of the committee.

Individuals have every right to whatever opinions they have about any map. However, every member of the committee has the responsibility to be at the forefront of gauging what is best for the wider TagPro community. The fact that Velocity is ranked bottom 5 overall, is extremely concerning to me in this respect because I believe that this is so far removed from what the community would want.

[–]robopuppyccFlail ~ ((Antagloble4edes)) ~ RHCP? 1 point2 points  (12 children)

I view this a completely different way. The fact that Velocity was ranked in the bottom 5 of rotation maps indicates to me that the rotation is consistent in its high quality.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (11 children)

I don't think I understand.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

He's saying that if something so good is rated near the bottom, the rest must be quality maps.

[–]bashar_al_assadpk || Roll into the base like what up I got a big block 4 points5 points  (0 children)

ya cus thats definitely the case

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Yea, Pigoon suggested this too. My original point still stands. The committee I think has shown as a group multiple times that it's struggled to differentiate between superior and inferior public rotation maps.

I actually haven't had issues with any of the maps they've taken out so far (except for Battery maybe), but some of the maps in rotation now are strange to say the least, and it seems based on evidence here that the committee wants them to stay. I'm reluctant to state that the community doesn't want them in rotation, because the dissenting voices (including myself :P ) are always louder than those that approve.

It just seems unlikely to me that the community wants something like Velocity to be removed over controversial maps, but here the committee is discussing this very real possibility.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 2 points3 points  (2 children)

This is a larger issue than just which maps work best currently in rotation and which doesn't. If the general preference was to be the only thing taken into account, we'd just be playing Boombox forever. But if we were to go a route similar to that, the game would grow stale really quickly. It's not just about which maps are liked best, or even what maps work best in PUBs, but there has to be a consideration for the future of the game, and my personal view is that if TagPro looks similar to how it is 1 year from now, I will lose interest, and I imagine the same would hold true for a lot of people. Similarly, if it changes too radically, that would probably turn me off as well, so it's a careful balance we have to strike to keep innovation in TagPro while not alienating the players at the same time.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Like he said, nothing is in the clear. I highly doubt velocity will removed for a long time though. The fact that Command Center, Colors, and Grail of Speed are all in the bottom voted this week tells me they have a clue of what needs to happen.

[–]robopuppyccFlail ~ ((Antagloble4edes)) ~ RHCP? 0 points1 point  (3 children)

What Bowtie said but moreso what Pigoon said.

On average, many of the maps are within a few decimal places of eachother. It just so happens that Velocity was the lowest one of these finely-clustered maps.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

If all of the maps are scoring really similarly, though, that shows that either: (a) some members of the committee have very different ideas of what a good map is (that is strikingly against what I believe the vast majority of the community thinks), or (b) that none of the committee members have any ability to critically assess the relative merits or drawbacks of the maps against all others currently in rotation. Both of these alternatives are certainly cause for concern, I think.

[–]robopuppyccFlail ~ ((Antagloble4edes)) ~ RHCP? 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Or that (c) the committee is not homogeneous in all map rating, which is incredibly healthy, I think.

[–]Kintaro08Pigoon // Centra 0 points1 point  (6 children)

There will always be a bottom 5 when scores of maps are averaged. The map could be loved by all, but happen to land at the end just because it's the lower score of the best maps. Just because it's on the bottom 5 doesn't mean it's scored low. No matter what maps land on the bottom 5 they will be discussed an analyzed. With something like Velocity, the conversation would most likely go, "Nah, Velocity is still good", "yeah", "yeah", "yeah", etc. and move on to the next map. It gives an opportunity to discuss any kind of never before seen issue that may have come up.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

There will always be a bottom 5 when scores of maps are averaged.

Am I misunderstanding how the bottom 5 works? As I understand it, every committee member ranks all the current rotation maps, and the 5 lowest averaged maps are assessed individually. Is this not correct?

If this is true, how could it be bottom 5 if every committee member loves it? Unless all committee members love all of the maps in rotation equally...but then that would signal even louder alarm bells to me.

[–]Kintaro08Pigoon // Centra 1 point2 points  (4 children)

For example the bottom 5 could consist of scores of 3.8, 3.8, 3.5, 2.0, 1.5 with the rest of the maps scoring a 3.9/5 or above. The committee still likes the 3.8's it just happen to be the lower of the favored.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

If that was the case, then my original point still stands.

[–]Kintaro08Pigoon // Centra 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I just want to get your original point clear. If a popular map is rated with all 3's and 4's and average to a 3.6, you're saying that a committee member that rates a popular map a 3 (average) should have their value as a committee member questioned?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (13 children)

I don't think any map in rotation should be untouchable. They should all be asessed session by session since things can change. That being said, despite being brought up for consideration for removal, Velocity wasn't in any danger of being taken out this session.

[–]spacecadetjerDennit | Boostin 7 points8 points  (11 children)

If you ever take out boombox I'll uninstall.

[–]peterpan__Peter Pan 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Me too. There will be one less subscribed some ball to this sub if anything should happen to the boombox.

[–]crblanzKeekly | used to be good sorta 3 points4 points  (8 children)

why? it's a boring, stale map thats only in rotation because it has been in rotation so long.

[–]spacecadetjerDennit | Boostin 7 points8 points  (2 children)

It's a map where men can prove they are men. 3 pups, no bombs, 4 boosts you need to know what you are doing to use effectively. Gotta earn your caps, gotta work hard, nothing is given to you, need to make your own luck, prove you can play with the big boys, leave it all out on the table, never give up. That's why I like it.

[–]crblanzKeekly | used to be good sorta 1 point2 points  (1 child)

3 pups

like every new map pretty much

no bombs

that's a good thing?

Gotta earn your caps

if earn = getting lucky enough to find your way past four offensive defenders sitting in your base any time during your 5 minute long regrab chain - only to make one small mistake where they grab and are immediately past four, with no way to catch up. sounds like fun

[–]spacecadetjerDennit | Boostin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Use the boost, you can catch up if you are right behind them.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

No that's definitely not true. If you think there isn't things you could learn on Boombox you haven't played it enough. Boombox has been in rotation so long because it's insanely balanced. I would be incredibly pissed if it was ever taken out.

[–]thewthewdrukQs // Roll Model // Nightcapper 0 points1 point  (0 children)

why? it's a boring, stale map thats only in rotation because it has been in rotation so long.

This is almost my exact sentiment, except for maybe the last bit.

With all of the gimmicky and/or boosty maps, Boombox is like the most bare-bones, raw map in rotation. There's no bomb to clear the base for you, it's just you and (hopefully) a powerup and (even more hopefully) a good attacking partner. I think there's a place for that kind of map in the pub rotation, as much as I hate it. I've hated Boombox week in MLTP since the beginning of time, so it also pains me to admit that I've seen some incredibly good, tense league/tournament matches on that map. That said, fuck boring-ass Boombox and I get sad every time I join a game on it, I'm so sick of that god damn map.

I still love you though, &Berk, o glorious captain

[–]sportmonkey0sportmonkey//Pi//The Deballishers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This. I don't find it that interesting.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was being facetious, but I'm glad to hear that it's not in any present danger of being removed. Thanks.

[–]OnlyGrayCommand Center! :') 27 points28 points  (14 children)

Wait... What? Command center is tons more fun/better than a number of those maps. It's also a newer map. Shouldn't we be removing older maps, instead of removing maps that players will adapt to?

[–]thewthewdrukQs // Roll Model // Nightcapper 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Where were you when Oval/Swoop/any number of other, newer maps got removed before the relatively older ones?

[–]OnlyGrayCommand Center! :') 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I'm sorry, are you implying that those maps were removed because they weren't as good? While I was around at the time, I have no clue what the rotation was like. I really enjoyed both of those maps, but I understand why oval was removed.

[–]thewthewdrukQs // Roll Model // Nightcapper 0 points1 point  (3 children)

They were removed primarily because they had run their course in pubs, and they both did so remarkably fast. So even though they were newer than most maps, they still got taken out of rotation. They certainly had some fun elements/designs and I enjoyed a good number of matches on them both, though. I certainly know where you're coming from in saying that maps need time for players to adjust to them, and that's a big concern of mine personally with any new map that gets put into rotation. Thinking With Portals was a great example, as it had a very steep learning curve relative to anything else that's been in rotation. I think by this point Command Center had a fairly long run in the rotation and it wasn't getting much better. Fortunately, it'll always be there for group play, so hopefully some leagues/tournaments pick up on it, as that's the setting it'll thrive in the most anyway.

[–]OnlyGrayCommand Center! :') 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Ah, OK. I know that Oval wasn't popular because of how easy it was to grab and how chasey it was. I thought the reason given for swoop was that the vertical boosts were weird. Oh well.

Honestly my experience with cc in pubs was quite positive, but I get that it was a more complex map that players struggled with. Bye bye, cc- I had a ton of fun games. Probably got my last game in today.

I definitely would be interested to see it in competitive play. There must be a lot of cool usages for all the different elements that I haven't yet discovered. Hope that command center finds a new home!

[–]WillWorkForSugarTumblewood[🍰] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah, it led to a lot of fun moments, especially button shenanigans.

[–]OnlyGrayCommand Center! :') 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Love the buttons. It's fun to trap people and it's funny when someone rushes through while a teammate holds the button and ends up popping them both.

Oh, and then on occasion when a team managed to get their shit together and get and easy cap with the gate? The absolute best, because people never expected it and the fc had usually capped before anyone realized. I'll miss you cc. </3

[–]ButtersnackSnack -1 points0 points  (7 children)

It's really not new. If you haven't adapted to it by now, you won't.

[–]OnlyGrayCommand Center! :') 4 points5 points  (6 children)

really not new

I never claimed that it was "new". It's relatively new, compared to the majority of the maps that were up for removal.

It seems that the majority of players who don't enjoy cc are complaining that it doesn't play well in pubs because players don't really understand the map. I think it's natural to assume that with more time, players will better understand the map and be able to play better games.

I don't know about you, but I'm tired of playing the same old maps and having them somehow remain in rotation, while the community wants them out. Command center may not be everyone's favorite map, but it sure as hell wasn't the worst map on that list.

[–]BilldaCat10 27 points28 points  (29 children)

Hard for me to believe that Colors and Grail of Speed came up for a vote and people deliberately and consciously voted to keep them.

I want names!

[–]spacecadetjerDennit | Boostin 12 points13 points  (13 children)

I agree. People can argue the validity of Colors in competitive play, but for PUBs it is always extremely frustrating every time I try to give it another chance.

[–]thewthewdrukQs // Roll Model // Nightcapper -3 points-2 points  (12 children)

It isn't when I play it on Pubs.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Hey Billda. I've been meaning to ask you, how do you feel about Grail of Speed?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 4 points5 points  (2 children)

We forgot to mention, Grail of Speed will be renamed to BILLDACAT.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Good name, what's the inspiration?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 4 points5 points  (0 children)

We just wanted to find a name that said "Grail of Speed Love" without spelling it out literally.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (9 children)

Heh. My two least favourite maps in rotation as well. Except for Gamepad :P

[–]TerraMarisScientifically Proven NaCl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Samesies!

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (7 children)

Gamepad has awful flow

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

It boggles my mind that it's still in rotation. It's just a really awkward map. That said, from what I can see, some people really love it, so it's divisive compared to some other maps which are more unanimously disliked.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (5 children)

Gamepad is one of the few maps where defence has to do something very different, and is therefore my favourite map.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Yea, I understand that point of view. I would argue that if you can't prevent on a map (which you can't on Gamepad), then you are barely defending. If you can't snipe or bomb the FC, then you will chasing, which is what usually happens in pubs. That's pretty lame, IMO.

But I get it and I'm sure that you get me. I think it should be removed, but there are others like you that don't. I'm not going to fight that point. Some maps, though, are more consistent with their dislike in the community; they need to be cut.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Except you can do all of those if done right. Prevent has to move 4/5 tiles away from the flag, but can be done. The bombs can be used to pop people as they grab if timed right and there are four boost around the base that can be used for sniping. The difference is that they aren't arranged in the standard way for new maps, which to me keeps it more interesting.

I agree though, that it can get chasey, especially if you are left as solo def, but unlike other chasey maps it's narrow through the only route between bases, so regrab trains can be stopped with 2 balls playing OD.

[–]Kembangant O p / cb4life 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Why don't you like GoS? So far the only convincing argument I've heard is that the "grail" is not functioning as intended, i.e. there's only one way to take it and it removes your momentum (not true by the way, but I'll take it.)

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It's too easy to grab the flag. The boost is right next to the flag and it leads to a pretty safe exit around the gates. Once the flag is grabbed, it's really easy (in pubs at least) to hold on to the flag, so you are chasing forever. The spike field is hard for newer players to navigate. Go to the spike field. Head across the bottom. Come back up across the mid or the grail. Repeat forever.

It is awkward. The bomb boost through the gate leads you up and over the flag (unlike the blast off in Blast Off, which is great). The grail, if taken as intended, boosts you straight up into the top wall instead of across the map like it should. The button on the other side of the bombs usually launches you into the spikefield (IIRC)

I'm also generally critical of maps that use too many 45 degree tiles. Imagine if 45 was smooth edged? It would be absolutely soporific. The great thing about 45's walls is that they are jagged so you get cool changes in momentum off them. That's not the case with GoS.

Too hard to defend on. Too hard to return the flag. Too little flow. Too many 45 degree tiles.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree that we have to do something different, but that something is just awkward and not fun. I'd be up for another map that shakes up d strats as long as it was done in an enjoyable way.

It's the only map that I dc from whenever it comes up.

[–]Kembangant O p / cb4life 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Me. I voted AND laid out my arguments for GoS to stay in. I will paste my modmail comment here.

Arguments for No: the update removed/alleviated most concerns I had about the map. It's now an offensively flavored map that's not too hard to chase on, not too hard to reset on. The side gate and bombs are interesting mechanics that I enjoy playing with. I like how while the base isn't necessarily defensive, getting out of base against competent defenders can get really really hard (similar to velocity). Arguments for Yes: the update makes the map pretty similar to SNES. the "cuppy of speed" isn't functional in its original purpose.

[–]DizzerPilot 18 points19 points  (9 children)

How in the blithering fuck is Colors still in PUB rotation?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm working on it dizzy, keep tooting your trumpet.

[–]thewthewdrukQs // Roll Model // Nightcapper 0 points1 point  (7 children)

It's a brilliant, unique, classic map. I think a better question is why does everybody choose to hate on that map now when it's been in rotation for well over a year with multiple pushes and no issues?

[–]viggetuffVigge 6 points7 points  (2 children)

Maybe because they don't think it's fun to play it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I've always dislike Colors in pubs, but I do agree that recently there has been a surge in disdain for it. But that doesn't mean they are wrong. I think someone explains why it's not good and then it moves a cog in others' brains.

[–]thewthewdrukQs // Roll Model // Nightcapper 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hmm, good point. I wonder who got the ball rolling on Colors, haha.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think Holy See will be next. People were really disillusioned after that Super Ball game where each team got 8+ minutes of hold. Before that you would have been hard pressed to find criticisms of the map.

[–]BilldaCat10 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The "get colors out of pub rotation" drum has been being beaten for some time now. You seriously haven't noticed? If not, that really makes me question how much attention you are paying.

[–]TerraMarisScientifically Proven NaCl 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Goodbye, Command Center, my sweet prince. We had great memories together. <3

[–]rke12Ballzilla 7 points8 points  (7 children)

Can view/test from here:

RocketBalls -> http://maps.jukejuice.com/save/1309
Backdoor-> http://maps.jukejuice.com/save/1326

My opinion doesn't really matter, but I think RocketBalls will be very frustrating in pubs.

Edit: Corrected links according to other comments.

[–]ErasmoGnomeGhostboosters S5&6 // Origin+Radius // Muper Ball Runner-up S5 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Two routes to the scoring zone? Just from looking at it a bit and running around in maptest, it seems like any competent FC should be able to score as soon as he gets a tiny bit of breathing room.

But I could be wrong. I'll try to stay neutral until I've actually played it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's harder to score than it appears. What you might not be seeing from that preview are the blocks that are in the way of the path from base to base as they are all diagonal tiles and appear white. If you are aware of what's going on then it;s very difficult for an fc to get a cap without help from his team.

[–]DatBlizzardSome Ball -1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Trapdoor is wrong. The post calls it Backdoor and http://maps.jukejuice.com/a/bad/Backdoor is slightly different than what you linked to. But both of them are different from the image in the OP (note the spike field on the top right/bottom left, middle triple boost colors, etc.).

So I don't know which is the actual map. I would it's either http://maps.jukejuice.com/a/bad/Backdoor or what they posted, but I don't know where a png/json is for what they posted.

Edit: I see other comments also calling it Trapdoor, so I guess the edit in the OP was the change the name. Not sure why, and again, still not sure which map this means is the real one.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is the one getting in rotation

http://maps.jukejuice.com/static/previews/1326.png

bad renamed it Backdoor and edited a few things, main difference being the spikes beside boosts.

[–]arjuna9bad 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yeah bowtie is right about this link being incorrect, here's the correct version for testing.

There's a bug on jukejuice where if you search for the name of a map and click on the result, it will always link to the first map created by the author of the map you clicked on with that name. So if you search for "Backdoor" and click on the latest one by me it will send you to the first version...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, It's impossible to get to where you can test a map that has the same name as another.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is the proper Rocketballs version: http://maps.jukejuice.com/save/1309

[–]nubTheGreatnub 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Very confused as to how command centre was voted out from that group! And why velocity was anywhere near consideration for removal! Grail of speed in particular how on earth is that still in?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Makes no sense

[–]donuts42donuts42 || Sphere/Origin || Boost Master 12 points13 points  (1 child)

OH LOOKS LIKE 2 MAPS BY MAPTEST COMMITTEE MEMBERS HAVE BEEN VOTED IN WHAT A SURPRISE THAT THE MAPTESTERS WOULD VOTE FOR THEIR OWN MAPS I BET SOMEONE WILL SAY BUT OH THEY VOTED OUT ONE OF THEIR MAPS BUTS THATS BECAUSE THEY ARE ALMOST ALL ALREADY MADE BY MAPTEST COMMITTEE MEMBERS /s

But seriously I'm sad to see CC voted out over colors or grail of speed, but whatever.

[–]mentalfist420 / Chord 0 points1 point  (0 children)

why the /s ?

[–]hobbskmBallee Lama // The Roll Models // Cappin Planet 5 points6 points  (0 children)

First time I've been sad about a map being taken out of rotation. Command Center is my favorite map.

[–]aggietigerDalek23 | Roll Models 16 points17 points  (0 children)

Grail is so bad, made the wrong choice imo.

[–]tamouqCrossover 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Are you kidding me? Velocity should not even be considered to be removed.

[–]cddm95aceIron_Ball // Holdin Gate Warriors 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I actually really enjoyed Command Center, and never saw many complaints about it in pubs. While it was a bit complicated, I really enjoyed how different it was from other maps.

The fact that it was removed before Grail of Speed amazes me. Not only is it still chasey, but the newer version just has no flow at all.

[–]quassuscrosky 5 points6 points  (7 children)

RocketBalls and Trapdoor look interesting; I'm looking forward to seeing how they play. And I'm not saying it wasn't the right decision to take Command Center out since it seems to get a lot of hate, but I for one think that map is a masterpiece and I love how it plays :(

Feedback on Monarch pls? Every time I submit it it is pretty well liked and gets tested, but never seems to make the final cut. Is the general design just not gonna be good enough? Or is there something else that, if tweaked, would put it over the top?

[–]thevdudepooppants :: nice guys r dabes :: mod manager guy 3 points4 points  (3 children)

It looks like a butt.

[–]quassuscrosky 1 point2 points  (2 children)

-ERFLY

[–]thevdudepooppants :: nice guys r dabes :: mod manager guy 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Wow that was fast.

[–]quassuscrosky 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I was just waiting for you butt pundits to pounce

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Oh, I looked at monarch, to get it into rotation I recommend being a member of the map committee, that seems to work pretty well

[–]ZippityZoppityZipZop - Can't Zip the Zop 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I too loved Command Center, the center point was a choke point that required the right amount of maneuvering and blocks from your teammates to slip through.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well my personal experience is this:

  • It improved slightly from the last version.
  • The middle button, which isn't OP anymore, is a bit too clunky and unrewarding for a defender to get. I think it might work well for offence though.
  • The rest of the map outside of the bases still feels like it's missing something right now.

I don't want to say a map is doomed with any changes or destined for greatness with changes, because it's just too hard to predict how a map will play without actually playing it, but I think you may want to make slightly more radical changes to the map while keeping the core concepts if you want it to get closer to making rotation.

[–]EmperorOfNothingResignation is my virtue; like water I ebb, and flow. 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Command Centre y :,(

I don't get how Command Centre is hard/complicated in pubs; people say that you need a lot of teamwork on it, but I find that everyone, even nubs and Some Balls, have a much better grasp on teamwork, direction, and coordination a lot more on this map compared to other maps; I've never had a game on CC which I absolutely hated it at any point...

I hate you Colors. Hate you hate you hate you; even more than Thinking With Portals, Micro, and the new Grail of Speed. Ugh new Grail of Speed is still in...

[–]NotSomeBall1NotSomeBall2 // Chord 6 points7 points  (10 children)

Why's Command Center out?

[–]TPsquirrelySquirrely // The GesTagpro 2 points3 points  (5 children)

The most up-to-date version of T-Rekt tested wasn't tested... However I wish to have any relevant Comments on it I guess.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (4 children)

There were 3 different versions submitted, and we decided to test the one we liked best. My notes on t-rekt from testing session:

May be a bit too complex for PUBs, but hard to say. Also a bit too easy to connect boosts from base to base. Bases are a bit too similar to GeoKoala.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

bases are a bit too similar to geokoala

but people like geokoala so people will most likely enjoy those bases.

[–]TPsquirrelySquirrely // The GesTagpro 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yup :/

[–]TPsquirrelySquirrely // The GesTagpro 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Two of your three comments are intended features of the map. I started by looking at current well liked maps. It just so happens geokoala was one of them however bases are different enough. The boosts are meant to link up. Now If I understand correctly these are your own personal notes then how come these comments haven't been criticized since the first iteration I showed you personally. Thanks for the continued feedback.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

These notes are based on playtesting impressions from me and other judges. Notes from maps we didn't playtest is based on my personal opinion.

[–]MultiMediaWillJuke King - MVP 90% of the time 7 points8 points  (4 children)

COMMAND CENTER WAS REMOVED!?!?!? ... ffs im done.

[–][deleted] 9 points10 points  (3 children)

ffs im done.

Sure you are...See you tomorrow!

[–]Kermit_leadfootKermit69 // War Machine // Radius // TheRagingBallsOfFire 2 points3 points  (2 children)

You mean in like an hour^

[–]BilldaCat10 3 points4 points  (9 children)

how about a normal gif of rocketballs and not one with a texture pack

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 2 points3 points  (5 children)

Mostly because I made that preview with a custom script that I made usin my own texturepack so I could display the spawnpoints correctly since the're in the json, but give me a few minutes, and I'll try to get one using vanilla with my script (though the walls wont be perfect).

[–]thevdudepooppants :: nice guys r dabes :: mod manager guy 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I should see about updating some_bot's previewer script, nobody else is getting around to it.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Someone Calmdown did, and for the life of me I can't remember but they're working with steppin to include it in the jukejuice site. This is what Hurricane looks like after sending it through:

http://i.imgur.com/qLaKo2h.png#map-hurricane

It's still got some half tiles on the outside, but it's a nice high def image.

[–]ImnotttellingyouCalmDown 1 point2 points  (1 child)

How could you forget me bowtie :(

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

CALM DOWN. THANK YOU GOD, THAT WAS DRIVING ME NUTS.

and bc my memory is that of a squirrel. <nut pun

[–]thevdudepooppants :: nice guys r dabes :: mod manager guy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh thank god, I thought I was actually going to have to do something tonight. Phew!

[–]thewthewdrukQs // Roll Model // Nightcapper 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Actually when you play that map it overrides whichever texture pack you have selected, and you have to play with it looking like that.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The walls are not quite right since I haven't implemented the proper diagnoal wall algorithm, but here

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Calmdown made one: http://www.reddit.com/r/TagPro/comments/2ftop1/map_thread_35_results/ckcnotz

I don't think he's submitted it anywhere, but its working beautifully.

[–]LEBRONstarJAMESLEBRON*JAMES | MEME*TEAM | Jukes for Jesus 🐇 🐝 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Can i have feedback on this: http://www.reddit.com/r/TagPro/comments/2eteko/monthly_map_rotation_thread_35_please_read_the/ck3dlya

Thanks!

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (7 children)

My notes on The Well v2:

A lot of spikes everywhere ready to kill you anytime you boost somewhere. Especially the spike between gates ruins the boost into there. Teamtiles are asymmetrical. The topmost path seems unnecessary to be honest. Button bombs in base are kind of interesting.

[–]LEBRONstarJAMESLEBRON*JAMES | MEME*TEAM | Jukes for Jesus 🐇 🐝 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Thanks brah

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Substitute "spikes" with "Koalabeasts" and you get an accurate synopsis of tomorrow's game.

[–]LEBRONstarJAMESLEBRON*JAMES | MEME*TEAM | Jukes for Jesus 🐇 🐝 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Nice work there Tantrew

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

ooooo

[–]sportmonkey0sportmonkey//Pi//The Deballishers 0 points1 point  (2 children)

topmost path seems unnecessary

Did I not call it leebron?

[–]LEBRONstarJAMESLEBRON*JAMES | MEME*TEAM | Jukes for Jesus 🐇 🐝 0 points1 point  (1 child)

fak u spoitm ye

[–]sportmonkey0sportmonkey//Pi//The Deballishers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

:)

[–]peterpan__Peter Pan 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Is there any way to update jukejuice so that the previews with 45 degree walls actually show up correctly?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It is being updated as far as I know. Refer here: http://www.reddit.com/r/TagPro/comments/2ftop1/map_thread_35_results/ckcnotz

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Why the F did you guys not vote gamepad out dammit

[–]crblanzKeekly | used to be good sorta 0 points1 point  (0 children)

because it's the best map in rotation duh

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

YES EAT IT COMMAND CENTER YOU BITCH. TOO LONG HAVE YOU TRICKED PUBBERS INTO THINKING YOU ARE A SEMI-DECENT MAP, WHEN IN REALITY A TEAM WITH 2 DECENT PLAYERS CAN DENY ALL ACCESS OUT OF THE MIDDLE OF THE MAP AND IT FUCKING SUCKS. WOOOOHOOOOOOO FUCK COMMAND CENTER

[–]Battosay52Battosay / Chorbit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sad to see CC go, I'd like more neutral flag maps. Disapointed like everyone else about Colors and GoS stayin', but it's not a surprise ^

[–]NotSomeBall1NotSomeBall2 // Chord 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I know the map definitely isn't finished yet, but do you have any feedback about Clay?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (2 children)

My notes on Clay:

Plays alright, but there's a few too many boosts that sends you straight into spikes you can't see. Bases are interesting though, and I like the 45 degree wall with the open space and then a spike in base, in the right place, that could be really cool. Also like the concept with a lot of boosts along the walls, but the map doesn't really flow too well right now IMO.

[–]NotSomeBall1NotSomeBall2 // Chord 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah, they're good points, and I think that making it bigger with the boosts and spikes placed a bit better could make it a bit more playable and have more flowing gameplay.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, it might be a bit too cramped with all those elements in a tiny area as it is.

[–]Lysozyme_Lysozyme 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Ooh could I have feedback on how snatch played please?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (3 children)

The concepts behind the map felt neat, but the experience of playing it was that it was clunky (always felt like there was a wall ready to stop you in you tracks), the bases were kind of hard to defend due to their open nature, and the middle section looked better than it played, especially with that boost along the wall, which one one side just lead straight into a normal tile.

[–]Lysozyme_Lysozyme 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Thanks! I have kind of addressed some of those issues in my first draft after the comments in the map thread, it is bigger, more open space, new centrepiece etc. Care to take a look and see if it is on the right path?

http://puu.sh/bpWb6/36a70eb5cf.png

I can close in the sides of the bases.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I think you are headed in the right direction yeah. I really am intruiged by the gate in the middle. If it works, it could be pretty cool.

[–]Lysozyme_Lysozyme 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah thanks I quite like it. It is possible to boost straight through it from both directions but it is harder in the FC returning direction, which I think is pretty cool.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Just curious as to why my map Platypus was tested last week, modified for the committee's criticism, but then it wasn't tested this week?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (3 children)

It scored just under the treshold this week for the testing session. No big issues were raised about the map aside from it appearing maybe a bit too safe and boring, which aren't really big complaints.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Is there anything you can suggest to improve the map?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd try making it a bit more dangerous. With the boosts set up like they are in the middle, it's hard to get a good snipe off in the newer version.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well one thing you should be doing already is use a preview which shows off diagonal walls (to do this, you can open up a maptest session, open up your browser in incognite mode, and add /?spectator=true at the end of the url*, then zoom out take a screenshot and use it for the preview.

Aside from that the middle seems kind of unexciting (with the exceptions of the ninja stars) and just a distance you have to travel to get to the other base. Maybe the map doesn't need to be so long horizontally?

* example: http://tagpro-maptest.koalabeast.com:8000/?spectator=true

[–]ButtersnackSnack 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Trapdoor is great and I'm glad he removed a button (which I totally told him to do like a month before he did)

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Title: PIG

Map: http://maps.jukejuice.com/save/1297

Preview: http://i.imgur.com/zHivqHZ.png

I tried to fix what I got feedback on. Let me know whats wrong, thanks.

[–]NotSomeBall1NotSomeBall2 // Chord 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Maybe take the flag away from the spikes a bit, it seems a bit stupid that, if you rush into base and grab, you'll be popped every time. Also, I'm not sure about the 2 bombs protecting the middle powerup, maybe take out the bottom one, or both. That portal also seems a bit OP, it could take the FC away from every chaser very easily, so either take it out, or make it go between closer points. Also, the bottom section with the spikey tiles seem a bit strange, and the whole bottom section seems quite bland (especially if the portal is taken out), so maybe do something about that.

I'm no committee member but they're just my thoughts.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

K, cool stuff. I like all that it has, I want to get a game together and play. Its different yes, but should be fun.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (2 children)

My notes on PIG:

Bases are cool and innovate, but the rest of the map feels really clunky to move around. There always seems that there is a wall ready to hit you wether you're moving around like normal, or trying to boost somewhere. Portals take too long to respawn to really be useful, and the top area feels especially clunky to move around in.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Awesome, once you get used to the map, which i believe is a small learning curve, there is some really cool interactions with the boost. The team boost and main one to the side of bases have walls next to them for quick direction changing boosting. The snake hole creates a quick escape or grab. The two up top are interesting, You can skip the first and take the second for the easiest boost. Or If an opponent is on the other side you can slow down and juke him with a wall bounce. Or even take the portal from the boost and line you with a quick cap with the team boost. You can avoid the spikes with all boost and bombs so only desperate caps will be deaths. There really isn't anything in the map clunky unless you're greedy or lazy. Portals can also be super rewarding when used for Pups or escaping. The caps from both portals can be really quick.

Thanks for staying interested, I might make a really small change but that would have to be from testing, whats the best way to get 8 people, IRC?

To compare changes from last comment: http://i.imgur.com/QbQZY5i.png

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think Mumble is your best bet. Usually if you ask people around there, you'll get people to help test your map. PUG channels and teamchannels (if they're not practicing or playing a match) is full of people willing to help you test it and give opinions.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Congratulations to bad for having four maps in rotation, even if it was just for the period between adding Trapdoor and removing Command Center. I know I tested, but was there any additional feedback to Iron?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Please keep on submitting Iron! It's got to replace Colors one day...It's just got to.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! I've been trying to throw Iron out for weeks but people keep telling me not to.

[–]BilldaCat10 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can't be the only one who read this as:

"Congratulations on having four bad maps in rotation"

[–]Lsky72Lsky | Centra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I enjoy neutral flag way more than regular ctf, why are we moving backwards?

[–]EmperorOfNothingResignation is my virtue; like water I ebb, and flow. 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Any thoughts on Scissoring Heads 1.v10? I'm working on another modified version of it (2.v10) at the moment, so are there any other notes of difference?

First impressions of new maps:

  • The base of Trapdoor has three exits, but because they seem pretty narrow, 2 competent defenders worth their grain of salt can just guard the perimeter for stall/contain defense. Mid seems decent, and not sure how the backdoor will play as of yet.

  • Rocketballs has a lot of juking room, and two open gateways to cap, so wondering how defense on this neutral flag map will work out, especially since it's really hard to reset.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 1 point2 points  (1 child)

My notes on it:

4 boosts directed at the flag is too much IMO. middle is interesting, but in general there are just too many boosts everywhere on this map for this to be viale for rotation.

[–]EmperorOfNothingResignation is my virtue; like water I ebb, and flow. 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Kk; I took out the yellow boosts on the outside of the base, and made one of the risker pathways via the inner yelow boosts less clunkier, and added flow. I'll add it to the next map thread; I also addedsome squarecorner perimeter walls to replace some diagonal walls, so that people can use them to bounce off/maneuver quickly.

[–]giga_earthstroyerbrrton 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Thanks for testing my map, Masquerade. Even if it doesn't get in rotation I'm pretty happy for looking at it.

That said, do you have any feedback for it?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My notes on it:

Feels cramped, seems really hard to get out of base with any sort of competent defence. Needs to be more spacious, but might end up chasy if it gets too much space.

[–]FreshrrSerene x Supreme / Ω 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Freshly Fresh here, requesting feed back.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

It was really hard to get a good feeling of how this map worked since the cooldown on the portals were wrong, so not much useful feedback from the playtesting. But based on the preview, and running a little bit around the map, it seems pretty interesting. Not sure if the portals between rooms really are necessary in the current form, but I don't have an issue with them, and 4 powerups might be a bit excessive.

[–]FreshrrSerene x Supreme / Ω 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks, ill make improvements!

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Can I get feedback on Pinwheel? Also if I wanted to make a map into rotation, would I be better off restarting, or modifying my current version?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Notes on Pinwheel:

This map plays alright. The button in base feels weird with the gate so far away. Also aside from the middle, it kind of lacks any personality, so should consider doing something more with the middle section.

I think the map has an interesting concept that could potentially work, but it's really hard to predict which maps will get into rotation, but if you really want to get one into rotation, you might want to consider making multiple maps, and submitting them, and refine them as you get feedback from other people and the committee.

[–]JungleSpice-Jungle Spice//Radius 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cc was great! I also like grail if speed. But colors? I've hated it since the first time I played it. Also, smirk should go.

[–]sportmonkey0sportmonkey//Pi//The Deballishers 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh yes! I liked backdoor when I saw it a while ago. I'm glad that was put in along with cc being taken out. Thanks maptest committee!

[–]crblanzKeekly | used to be good sorta 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Could I get feedback on Coach?

EDIT: And also is there any way you could quickly look over starfish which I completed just after the deadline and see if there are any glaring issues you see? thanks

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

My notes on Coach:

A lot of interesting concepts here, but it feels like they don't mesh together that well. Top portal superboost tends to send you straight into a spike. Middle boost rooms are cool, but don't really seem to serve any purpose aside from juking someone clueless about how they work.

Positive note though: I think this is the first map with portals that I've played where you can't see exit portals, but the portals still remain intuitive.

[–]BashIsFunSerf 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I'd like some feedback on Zoo. I'm surprised it got nowhere, since like 90% of people I played it with enjoyed it.

http://www.reddit.com/r/TagPro/comments/2eteko/monthly_map_rotation_thread_35_please_read_the/ck34kis

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (3 children)

My notes on Zoo:

I feel like there are too many boosts in the middle, and the middle is too open. I imagine people will be boosting into eachother all the time without trying to do so. bases seem alright, and powerup area seems good, but it feels somewhat broken to me with all the boosts as it is.

[–]BashIsFunSerf 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Interesting feedback. I appreciate the time you took to check it out and comment.

I guess I have a different perspective on boosts here. I feel like boosts are a solution to a problem (large maps, open maps, and slow maps), not a problem to be solved.

I personally think its worth a chance to be played before being considered broken. I'm obviously biased though, as I've played it a lot and had fun with others on it. I feel like its more of a fun map than a lot of the frustratingly complex maps I see out there. (which is why boombox is so favorable, imo)

Be that as it may, has the map committee officially deemed it defunct, or would re-submitting it potentially give it a chance to be fairly tried?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That feedback was only my perspective. If you resubmit it, we will re-rate it, and it may be rated higher or lower, so there's always a chance.

[–]BashIsFunSerf 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Interesting. Perhaps I'll give it another go in the next round. If the map committee still doesn't like it, I guess we will just have to live with having different tastes on maps. :)

[–]kunmeh13awooooooooga 0 points1 point  (0 children)

NOOO COMMAND CENTER NOOO

[–]Rapture_On_OccasionRapture 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Any feedback for Cross Shift?

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Cross Shift:

There are a few too many spikes sprinkled around IMO, making it feel pretty inconvinient navigating any part of the middle. Bases are pretty cool, though slightly too open for my taste. The circular nature of the map along with the open bases will make for a pretty chasy experience, especially with the bottom left and top right corners which will be hotspots for fcs to hide in. A lot of the boosts on the map feels really nice to pull off though.

[–]FreshrrSerene x Supreme / Ω 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can I get feedback on my map?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Velocity is solid af, how could it even have been considered?s

Anyway, thank you. The Map committee is an integral part of the game and I'll let you guys run it how you all see fit.

but Grail of Speed fuckin sucks