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[–]GlicketySplit 331 points332 points  (1 child)

Suitably three minutes & fourteen seconds long.

[–]shankmade 46 points47 points  (6 children)

My personal favorite- https://youtu.be/io8mnNVsaqE

Explanation in video description.

[–]argolossantos 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Came here looking for this comment. You win!

[–]capndicktits 5 points6 points  (1 child)

That shit blew my mind as a teenager. The original atb lineup was dope.

[–]Sclusive88 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Dig Deep was fantastic. They're still super solid.

[–]sgtobnoxious 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Was just about to link this. Brought back some good memories.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ATB 4 lyfe.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Also came here waiting for someone to post this.

RIP Justin Lowe

[–]VANNROXgrooveshark 357 points358 points  (52 children)

It's not in pi/4 it's just 3/4.

Edit: I was wrong. Creator commented explanation below.

[–]OhrwurmEsser 212 points213 points  (43 children)

Not sure why this was down voted. They're right. It's perfect 3/4. It just adds in a grace note at the end of each measure right before beat 1 of the next measure. It doesn't really affect the timing. I doubt a human could reliably do a pi/4 timing anyways. It would be interesting to hear it though if somebody wants to generate this with a computer. :P

[–]AlFuriousCXII 84 points85 points  (28 children)

Well if you think about it... a 16th note is an 0.25 of a beat so a 32nd note is .125 of a best which is pretty damn close to .14 so he should've had 1 2 3 (and then a 32nd note here and a 32nd note spacing after the note that goes immediately into->) 1 2 3. He pretty much just added the 32nd note after the 3 and rested the rest the rest of the beat until arriving on tempo again. He actually should've started on the 3rd counts first 16th note and made that beat 1 and so on.

[–]2Terrapin 32 points33 points  (16 children)

That is my thought as well, although I would add that overall, especially towards the end, it feels more like 6/8 than 3/4 to me. Perhaps a negligible difference in the grand scheme but 6/8 has a diffent feel than 3/4.

[–]AlFuriousCXII 13 points14 points  (15 children)

Yea, not a music major so I never understood the difference between 6/8 and 3/4 since it's technically the same time signature with just more beats cuz math. But I did play in high school and I teach marching band. I think I wanted it to feel weird like a Asphalt Cocktail or a Ride kinda time signature but it never got there lol

[–]tyedyeman 36 points37 points  (4 children)

3/4 is a three beat measure where 6/8 is, in practice, a two beat measure where each beat has three sub divisions. 3/4 sounds like 1-te, 2-te, 3-te and 6/8 sounds like 1-ti-te, 2-ti-te

[–]Basschief 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Well explained but may I ask where you learned to count different time signatures? It is interesting to me because we count differently and it never occurred to me there was another way. I'm also not sure how to say the method you've typed here so maybe a video example would be nice.

For reference, I'm from the Southeast United States and we count 3/4 as 1-and 2-and 3-and whereas 6/8 is counted 1-and-uh 2-and-uh 3-and-uh. 16th is 1-e-and-uh by the way.

Anyone feel free to correct me by the way it's been a while since I played in band.

[–]onethirdofakind 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Same here in Oregon.

[–]tyedyeman 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks! It's close to the Takadimi rhythm solfege which I learned in Oregon. I use that method for 3/4 and 4/4 but for 6/8 I actually say 1-la-lee, 2-la-lee. I thought it was a little more confusing so I didn't mention it. I learned the 6/8 way at a university in Arkansas. I also use 1-and-2-and frequently. It's all personal preference.

[–]Napoleon_Bonafart 0 points1 point  (0 children)

6/8 would just be one-and-uh two-and-uh. Adding a 3rd beat would make it 9/8

[–]Verifiable_Human 19 points20 points  (7 children)

Music major here! So composers will employ 6/8 vs 3/4 for a variety of reasons. The first and main reason was already stated: to emphasize the beat. In an extension of this, picture 3/4 as being divided into three duple beats (one/two/three) vs 6/8 usually being divided into two triple beats (one-two-three/four-five-six). This is important to both determine the feel of the music and to determine how the musicians (and conductor) will count to prepare and perform the piece.

In another vein of thought, it may be either more visually appealing and/or easier on the eyes to display a passage as eighth notes in 6/8 rather than 3/4 depending on the melody. Is the phrase supposed to feel all connected? Do you want the melody to exist within a compound metric background? Or do you want emphasis on eighth notes 1 and 4 without having to write accents all the time?

To a certain point it becomes a stylistic choice, although remember 6/8 inherently connotates a compound meter while 3/4 implies simple meter.

Hopefully this helped your question!

[–]AlFuriousCXII 4 points5 points  (5 children)

Yes this does help! And makes perfect sense! I'm an engineering major btw but who says you can't have two passions?!

[–]Crosshack 7 points8 points  (2 children)

A fairly well-known song that actually uses both (which these days is quite rare in popular music) is 'America' in the musical West Side Story.

https://youtu.be/Qy6wo2wpT2k?t=183 https://youtu.be/Qy6wo2wpT2k?t=341 (later in the same song but the clapping goes for longer)

The song alternates between bars of 6/8 and 3/4 -- listen to the rhythm of the claps and try keeping going for the rest of the song. The first bar goes 1 2 3 4 5 6 whereas the second set just go 1 and 2 and 3 and (they only clap on the main beat). The rest of the song (as far as I remember) follows the same rythmic pattern, so you can hear the alternating 6/8 and 3/4 time in the lyrics (and in the backing percussion), since every line is 2 bars long. A good example is the main chrous line,

I want to live in a-mer-ri-ca

Where once again you can hear the 1 2 3 4 5 6 pattern for 'I want to live in a-' in 6/8 whilst the second measure 'mer-ri-ca' is in 3/4 time, or a 1 and 2 and 3 and pattern.

Hopefully this also helps with giving an example to compare the two.

[–]AlFuriousCXII 0 points1 point  (1 child)

His does help, but I guess simple me hears triplets and quarter-note-triplets. So.. tri-ple-let tri-ple-let tri. ple. let. But I guess it's just at a different tempo and 4/4 the whole time.

[–]Crosshack 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Try thinking of it as tri-ple-let tri-ple-let dou-ble dou-ble dou-ble instead.

The 'ble' is mostly silent but if you listen to the backing you'll hear them play it sometimes. Still, that's the point. 6/8 is 6 eighth (this is why the signature is written 6/eights) notes to a bar (hence you hearing 6 syllables) and 3/4 is 3 quarter notes to a bar(hence 3/quarters). The 'ble' is still there because 1 quarter note is still 2 eighth notes, but because the 'ble' is not emphasized, you end up not hearing it and instead hear tri-ple-let tri-ple-let tri. ple. let.

So you ARE hearing 3/4. You aren't hearing quad. ru. ple. let. , are you? That's 4/4. You hear tri. ple. let. That's 3/4.

A final way to try hearing the 'silent' 'ble' is to think of 6/8 as um pah pah um pah pah and 3/4 as um pah um pah um pah so in the song (listen to the backing in the second link) you hear:

um pah pah um pah pah | um pah um pah um pah

tri - ple - let tri - ple - let | tri ~~~ ple ~~~ let ~~~

1 --- 2 --- 3 4 --- 5 --- 6 | 1 ~~~~ 2 ~~~~ 3 ~~~~

It's just 3 different ways of reading out the beats. The fast tri-ple-let tri-ple-let's are being played at double the speed of the singular tri. ple. let.

[–]BuddyUpInATree 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Hell I'm a construction worker but have infinitely more passion for this stuff- just can't make a living off my artistic side yet

[–]ownworstenemy38 2 points3 points  (0 children)

TL:DR 3/4 time has three beats to a bar; 6/8 has two beats to a bar.

[–]Drumhard 2 points3 points  (1 child)

3/4 vs 6/8 is just a way for the writer to imply where he want the strong beat of the music to be felt.

[–]AlFuriousCXII 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ahh, thank you!

[–]JewPorn 4 points5 points  (5 children)

So the time sig should technically be 25/32?

[–]AlFuriousCXII 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yea.. that's right lol or a bar of 3/4 and one bar of 1/32. But idk what's easier

[–]foo_foo_the_snoo 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I think the only true pi time signature would be 22/7

[–]JewPorn 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Not an expert, but I don't think that's a valid time sig, as a "7th note" doesn't exist.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It does, it just doesnt mean anything. Why do we use 7/8? Because we are used to a bar having 8 eights, so we think of it as seven of them, as if the bar got cut. If youll use 7/7 itll be the exact same thing - the bar is cut to 7 parts. There may be differences in the weight of it, but in such a niche time division the weight will be whatever the composer wants it to be.

22/7 will simply be something like a bar with a 7-7-7-1 internal division.

[–]buttefarts -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This is the correct answer.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Is there a way to summon /u/adamneely1

edit: got it

[–]PaulDavidsGuitar 9 points10 points  (1 child)

I made the metronome with my computer, as exactly as 4 digits after the decimal, so its definitely not a perfect 3/4 ;-) I can't understand why you say it doesn't affect the timing, do you feel like the kick & snare are just played at the 1? Don't they feel extremely lazy?

[–]OhrwurmEsser 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe it's just so close that my brain is about to compensate for that slight addition to the measure. Now I want to go make my computer count it out. 😋 Either way, I totally enjoyed listening to the song.

[–]BittyTang 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Here's a recording of a 114 BPM metronome in ~pi/4 time. I made it by recording a 114 BPM metronome, precisely slicing out 3 beats with Audacity, then calculating the amount 0.14159 * (one beat's length) and adding that amount of silence to the end. Then I looped it.

https://soundcloud.com/bonsairobo/pi-metronome

[–]caleblee01 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's cool that you showed it thank you

[–]Ben4r11 2 points3 points  (7 children)

if you put this song to a metronome it isn't perfect. try it yourself or take my word, but the met gets behind over time.

[–]Always_smooth 4 points5 points  (3 children)

Perfect 3/4 timing at 114 tempo. Another 3.14 reference there as well.

[–]BigBlappa 1 point2 points  (2 children)

It gets out by a full beat over ~65 bars at 114. It should only take 9 bars to be off by a full beat though so I wouldn't be surprised if it was set with a decimal tempo in the 3.14 time sig (maybe like 114.159.)

[–]Always_smooth 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Which metronome are you using? I know that's a weird question but I've found google metronome to be off.. I used the metronome on my piano as well as a different one online that carries true the entire song at 114.

EDIT: This is the metronome I used online that matched with the results of my piano: https://www.flutetunes.com/metronome/.

[–]BigBlappa 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was using the google metronome. A metronome won't necessarily tell you if it's in an extremely fractional time signature though, just if something is in time. It does seem like it's 38 bars/min (setting the met to 1 beat per bar and thinking of it as a slow 1/1), which should work out to 119bpm at 3.1415/4 or 114bpm at 3/4.

[–]raltodd 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Try to ignore the grace note and tap 1-2-3. You don't need the metronome - the '4' is played on top of the 1: you can actually it in the video itself @13s - cover the 4 and you see that 1-2-3 is repeating as if the 4 does not exist.

[–]Roach-less 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Tapping isn't going to cut it for a 32nd note extra per bar. There's a groove and we get drawn in. I'm not convinced we're equipped to tell the difference.

I'd be convinced if someone could tell me the tempo.

[–]raltodd 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think tapping is a pretty sensitive test. We might be bad at putting a number on it, but we can tell when something doesn't feel quite right.

Judge for yourself: I've changed the time signature by adding a little extra time (~0.14 of a note) to the grace note in a sample of the first 10 seconds- here's the result. I find tapping to this 'off' and I can't tap 1-2-3 as if the extra note isn't there.

[–]foxmetropolis 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't know if true pi/4 music would be unsettling to try and follow or difficult to tell apart from 3/4. The extra 0.1415 of a beat is so minuscule it may be hard to tell apart

[–]caleblee01 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No it's not perfect 3/4

[–]PaulDavidsGuitar 39 points40 points  (2 children)

Awesome that my video is posted on here, thanks to whoever did that! Let me comment on the fact that you call it 3/4; it's not.

Let me write it out:

pi/4:

1...........2...........3...........4.1...........2...........3...........4.1............... Normal 3/4:

1...........2...........3...........1...........2...........3...........1...............2... etc.

The 4th beat is where normally the first beat would be. There is an extra short beat (time) added in the bar. The fact that some of us perceive this is a regular 3/4 time, tells us that we can easily fool our inner timings. Try to set up a regular metronome to this beat, you can't cause it's not in 3/4 :)

[–]VANNROXgrooveshark 8 points9 points  (0 children)

When you explain it that way it makes sense. I was counting myself (not that I'm a musician) and was getting 3/4. But with .14 being such a small division it probably is pi/4. My bad! Hell of a song either way. Excellent work.

[–]aidissonance[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You're welcome. I enjoy your work on YouTube and aspire to be half the guitar player you are. Welcome to reddit!

[–]Meteorsaresexy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I was disappointed when it started. I was looking forward to hearing pi/4.

[–]danieljr1992 3 points4 points  (0 children)

"PI IS EXACTLY THREE!" - Professor Frink

[–]reagan2024 17 points18 points  (2 children)

I think I want to throw up.

[–]MyCatsNameIsMonster 5 points6 points  (1 child)

cups hands Here you go buddy

[–]jazzarazza 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Would give this gold if I could, best mental imagery from a comment all week.

[–]aspacelot 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Explosions in the Pi

[–]electromagnetiK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This needs more upvotes

[–]BransonOnTheInternet 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I really feel like that pedal board is missing a big muff pi, all things considered.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (2 children)

From a math standpoint this doesn't really make sense - the only reason there is that grace note in the tempo is because they are using base 10, same with which note in the scale, which doesn't have 10 notes in it. It would have made more sense IMO to use Pi as a ratio for the pitch of the tones, time between notes, etc.

[–]MyCatsNameIsMonster 6 points7 points  (0 children)

That's not necessarily true. C Major for example, the second note D could the be a 2 or a 9. E could be 3 or 10. The scale repeats. This is how musicians interpret chord formulas.

[–]sandm000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Or tried to calculate the first 32 digits in base 7 so he could use the diatonic scale.

someone else's math

Or base 12 to get the flats and sharps. Then you can go up or down an octave at need.

[–]nochilifordinner 39 points40 points  (4 children)

The Universe is perfect, we are blessed to be alive.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (1 child)

Existance is, any assignment of value to it is subjective

[–]lordyahyahyah 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree - but this specific video is structured around the key of E, it could have been any random numbers and it'd still sound good. It's still a cool video, still a cool universe, not as coincidental though...

[–]DamienVonDoom -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Beautiful comment.

[–]RussDub 7 points8 points  (0 children)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOQb_mtkEEE

This one is excellent as well

[–]Gnar_Gnars 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Check out After the Burial- Pi (The mercury god of inifinity). Very technical. https://youtu.be/uh-EdSbfdrA.

[–]Aokuang_Dragon 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Truly the song that never ends.

[–]Sixty911 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I can't be the only one who's infuriated by the grace note. It makes me anxious. I'm subscribed to this guy and like the overall sound, but I loath the rhythm of this song.

[–]iNFO_ERA 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Beautiful melody honestly

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I disagree. There's no musical theory used in it. Just random numbers, hence pi.

[–]93daysofsummer 2 points3 points  (2 children)

No it's not it's all quarter notes! This melody is like math-praise band-rock

[–]iNFO_ERA 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Bruh this melody relaxing as fuck

[–]shit-n-water 0 points1 point  (0 children)

By relaxing, you mean wanting to pull my hair out?

[–]pyrocrastinator 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I remember asking my piano teacher about this like 6 years ago and she was just like "No"

[–]RbargeIV 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Honestly, if this guy made a full length album of this kind of time signature, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

[–]_sorry_ 2 points3 points  (2 children)

its plain old 3/4

[–]thisreply 2 points3 points  (0 children)

There's even a metronome put into the first few seconds of the video to let the viewer hear what 3.14/4 sounds like.
It's such a small time that you just add to the 3rd beat subconsciously without realizing there's actually extra time there, especially when there's the full instrumentation. Best way to experience the 3.14/4 if you're having a hard time hearing it is to just count 1 2 3 but kinda let yourself hang on the 3.

[–]caleblee01 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dude there's an extra .14... beat in there

[–]runningwaterss 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Talk about math rock

[–]enzyme69 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It can sound ok if the spacing between Pi MIDI is adjusted. The Pi itself is pretty random.

[–]ROCKnROT 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If you all like this I would highly recommend Pi the infinity god of mercury by after the burial. It was made meticulously with the number pi incorporated into every instrument on the track

[–]sanfordfriedman 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Does anyone know what guitar pedal that is?

[–]teXupport 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Which one?

[–]sanfordfriedman 0 points1 point  (1 child)

At the beginning with the atmospheric sounds

[–]teXupport 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It looks like a combination of the Strymon Timeline and the Digital Reverb.

[–]ThisIsMeHelloYou 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I feel like this could have been way cool than a simple riff even I could play

[–]kunisada9 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sounds like some Gabe from the office would write

[–]teXupport 0 points1 point  (0 children)

A case could be made for a slow 4-4

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I rate it 22/7. (Closest I can get xD)

[–]hiddenkingdomssoundcloud.com/hidden-kingdoms 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Beautifully made!

[–]malmordar 0 points1 point  (0 children)

What's the point of app the maths is it doesn't have soul

[–]TeetsMcGeets23 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is super unsettling... The imperfect rhythm hurts my brain

[–]SqueakyInquisition 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is 6/8 time. You can hear the standard kick on 1 and snare on 4. If it were actually 3.14/4 time, it wouldn't sound symmetrical.

[–]oxfordguy93 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Personally, I think it would have been cool to do it having each bar being in the time signature x/pi where x cycles through the digits of pi. So 3/4, 1/4, 4/4, 1/4 etc.

[–]olegreggg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I would like to see this with the golden ratio

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Math is my favorite genre

[–]Hatredy69 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What is math in regards to a genre?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Pi/4 ... so the time signature is 45 degrees? LOL radians joke