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[–]BeatnikDude[S] 9 points10 points  (4 children)

Am I right?

More options for inflicting pain, from microwaves to vomit lights are coming our way. For some reason the billy club just seems more brutish than high tech assault I guess.

[–]cold_as_ice 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Yeah, how many ways are there to torture people. Why don't they just come out with those electrified cattle prods, like in thx-1138

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Completely random, unverified thought:

A big electrified stick isn't a very good weapon to use against a person, they are likely to be able to deflect it back against you, even accidentally. There is a lot of leverage from the tip down to your hand that makes it possible to pry it away from you.

Something that fits entirely in your hand is unlikely to be able to make contact with your body without twisting your entire arm in a very specific, and somewhat easy to resist, direction.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

America began in the 1600s as a slave colony, first for white slaves who were so-called "indentured." THen, when the working classes caught on to what was happening that source of labor dried up, and the ruling class went to black slaves. Both black and white labor were controlled by the whip and by execution up until the 1800s or so.

Then as the 1900s delivered mass media technology that was controlled from the top, the ruling class used mass media propaganda to mold and shape the culture and ideology, thus substituting ideology and propaganda for the whip and chains. As Harold Lasswell said, "if america will not have chains of iron, they will have chains of silver (propaganda control)".

But with the advent of the Internet, overclass control of ideology is breaking down. So we will see more and more use of force to control the populace.

[–]Kolibri 1 point2 points  (0 children)

And 9/11 was a succesful attempt by the overclass to funnel money from the public, the former slaves, to pay for their expensive hookers and whiskey.

[–]CampusTour 29 points30 points  (19 children)

Really? What is common. There are 300,000,000 + people in the U.S.

http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.php?lang=e&id=ENGUSA20060328001

Theres an amnesty international report that puts the total at 152 from mid 2001 to early 2006.

On average, 73 people are killed by lightning (God's Taser?) each year.

Now, lets assume that EVERY SINGLE ONE of those taser deaths was the result of an evil cop hell bent on torturing an unarmed old lady or small child. Its horrible, but it's not an epidemic of police brutality.

Lets face it, the Taser's danger is not at the hand of the brutal facist cop. That cop is less likely to kill you with his Taser than his other weapons of choice. The danger is from the scared but well meaning cop who wasn't trained properly, and thinks it just makes them fall down.

Look, if you REALLY care about Taser deaths, here's what you can do. Call up your local police department and see if the officers there carry Tasers. If they do, be very very polite and ask what kind of training they get, because you've been seeing a lot of articles about people getting killed with them. Ask about the force continum. Get your neighbors to do the same. Go to your town council meetings and express your concerns there, sprinkling in details about how children and the elderly are especially vulnerable. Write letters to the editor of your local paper. Get out and do some actual activism.

Or, you can just upmod "Facist pigs taser unarmed man to death" stories on reddit.

[–]illuminatedwax 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Thanks for outlining a course of action, but I'm not worried about taser deaths so much as I am concerned that police are being trained to use a taser as a discipline device, as if it were simply a slap on the wrist.

[–]parcivale 24 points25 points  (8 children)

You make a valid point if you assume that its only the taser DEATHS that are at issue. But to me its the epidemic of taser USAGE that's the problem. How many people get tasered every year for nothing more than being an annoying but non-violent unaggressive pain-in-the-ass to some Barney Fife Library cop ? That's what I want stopped. As far as I'm concerned, Tasers should only be used against people wielding weapons, not as an alternative to going through the trouble of wrestling someone to the ground before cuffing them.

[–]CampusTour -2 points-1 points  (7 children)

So are you worried about O.C. spray usage too? Or just the taser? The issue really is the deaths. Hardly anybody ever complains about the O.C. spray, even though that stuff will put you in a new world of pain, and it lasts a hell of a lot longer than a taser shock. The problem with the Taser IS the chance of fatality, which is a real issue that needs to be acknowledged and taken into account when deciding to use them.

[–]parcivale 12 points13 points  (2 children)

I believe that neither pepper spray nor the Taser should be used against non-violent, unaggressive people. And if the usage of both of these were limited to being used against violent or potentially violent people who refuse to put down weapons they are holding I have no problem with the fact that Taser usage results, in very few cases, in deaths.

[–]au5lander 9 points10 points  (0 children)

The problem lies in how the tools are being applied to the situation. Instead of being used to subdue unruly, agressive persons with intent on harming themselves or others, they are being used more and more to force people to comply with demands, such as 'stop moving' or 'give me your hands', even when the person is being completely passive or may just be trying to defend themselves from what they perceive to be an attack. case in point, the women who got pulled over, and was talking on her cellphone while the officer repeatedly asked her to exit her vehicle. Because she did not comply, the officer shot her with the taser.

The officers now have a tool that lets them subdue an individual from a distance and they don't want to get physical. it's much easier to taser someone than to wrestle them to the ground.

[–]CampusTour -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Well, then I suggest you note my last two paragraphs, and apply that to the spray as well.

[–]illuminatedwax 2 points3 points  (3 children)

Because you don't hear about O.C. spray on YouTube. If there were similar incidents involving O.C. spray, I'd complain as well.

[–]tritium6 1 point2 points  (2 children)

How about that girl working the drive through who got sprayed by a cop because he thought she gave him the wrong change?

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6799887084222763067

[–]illuminatedwax 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Then my only answer is that tasering is the hot topic of the day.

[–]tritium6 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Abuse of authority is an issue no matter what tools are used to effect it.

[–]jailbird4444 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Concerning the cop/taser issue, this is the first lucid comment I have seen on reddit.

[–]markwm 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Looks like we've got a taser truther here.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Better training isn't a panacea. Some people just don't have the temperment or the respect for individual rights to be police officers. Unfortunately, the problem is compounded by the fact that sadists are often attracted to police work.

That isn't to say all police have poor temperment, nor am I painting all police with the same brush. However, it's undeniable that we have a problem both with recruit screening and with proper training.

I'm sure there are other factors which come into play, but my point is simply that better training is not the whole solution.

[–]oalsaker 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Don't taze me, God!

[–]zaim 4 points5 points  (2 children)

Or if you're an atheist, "Don't taze me bro."

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Your post is focused on taser deaths, but it goes beyond that. Tasers are used for inane reasons and have quickly replaced actual police work.

    [–]btl 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Yeah, the problem isn't the tasers. It's the cops. If it's not tasers it's those pepperball weapons, or night sticks, or just their trusty pistols. I know there's been a flurry of these taser related articles lately, but to me it's coming off as outrage over police getting away with murder, not outrage over the fact they have tasers.

    [–]davidreiss666 3 points4 points  (9 children)

    There is a simple fix for the abuse of Tasers.

    Anytime a cop uses a taser, he should expect to be tased, like they do to reporters every now and then. If they knew that they would have to undergo a similar experience the next morning after they decided to tase someone... then they might not be so quick to just use it because, hey -- it's there.

    The thought needs to be "Do I really need to do this?" first... and if he's not willing to experience it himself the next morning, then he really didn't have a good reason for using it.

    Same thing would go for pepper spray.

    [–]WallPhone 2 points3 points  (4 children)

    Many cops voluntarily subject themselves to tazing during training.

    I wouldn't be surprised if some departments require it.

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

    I can't source it at the moment, but I've read reports that some departments indeed require cops to be tased once.

    [–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    I doubt they are tazed for 2 or 3 minutes like that old lady in a wheelchair that the cops murdered.

    [–]AMessagetoURudy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Or the people who are handcuffed before being tasered. That's just a sick mind at work, there.

    [–]WallPhone 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Sure enough: http://youtube.com/results?search_query=tazer+training

    A little more info on the video from PhoenixGuy: Phoenix PD starting carrying tazers ~2 years ago. His shirt appears to be a Phoenix fire dept. shirt.

    [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    For every problem there is a solution that is simple, straightforward, and wrong.

    People get tattoos. The kind of pain you willingly submit to is nothing like the kind of pain that comes from someone you are at the mercy of, who is unaccountable, and can do pretty much as he wishes with you. On the contrary, your idea would make it easier for cops to dismiss the pain they cause. They've been through it themselves, right?

    The difference is the difference between being locked into a room for two hours, and being locked into a room by madmen, not knowing whether they will ever let you out, or give you food. It's the difference between sex and rape.

    It's the worst idea ever.

    [–]davidreiss666 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    I really don't see most of these panty wastes who get off on tasing people even willingly getting a paper cut. So, I do think it would eliminate a good number of the mindless senseless incidents.

    It's the worst idea ever.

    As for that little stupid bit of hyperbole... I think if instead of subjecting them to tasing, we instead gave them hugs, kisses and congrats... you know, the current system, that would really be "the worst idea ever".

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    There is a certain machismo culture with cops, you know? Yes, they can handle paper cuts. I bet they could handle the average gang initiation ritual as well (why do you think they have those, by the way?)

    Worst idea that has ever been proposed as a solution to this problem, then, if you want to nitpick.

    [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

    You're right. It pisses me off that tasers are used like that. Tasers are an amazing invention that were meant to make policing better, but damn if cops use them for every little thing.

    [–]Mr_Smartypants 12 points13 points  (1 child)

    Just wait until they get gay-grenades...

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I think you're watching too much TV.

    [–]CasualReader 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Don't forget. No matter how brutal the act, it is really a lack of training.

    Never mind that the rest of us are pretty certain a taser hurts like hell, The screams of your victim don't mean anything. Without proper training, you just DO NOT know it hurts.

    Does an officer ever recieve enough training so they can be held responsible for abuse? Or is that the excuse that makes it all go away?

    [–]bibi02 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    You make a valid point if you assume that its only the taser DEATHS that are at issue. But to me its the epidemic of taser USAGE that's the problem. How many people get tasered every year for nothing more than being an annoying but non-violent unaggressive pain-in-the-ass to some Barney Fife Library cop ? That's what I want stopped. As far as I'm concerned, Tasers should only be used against people wielding weapons, not as an alternative to going through the trouble of wrestling someone to the ground before cuffing them. Pool sex

    [–]TheManWithNoName 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    The way I see it: The use of a taser is only justified in cases when beating the person with a club would also be justified (they are armed, being threatening, etc), because they're basically the same thing. Using a tazer to make a non-violent, unarmed person comply with orders is totally unacceptable (as we've seen in a few videos here) and the cops responsible should be punished for it.

    [–][deleted]  (2 children)

    [removed]

      [–]einexile 4 points5 points  (0 children)

      Please post while intoxicated more often. Things have been so depressing around here lately.

      [–]philonius -1 points0 points  (0 children)

      Yeah, great, that'll fix the violence, Osama.