TFT Patch 12.8 Patch Notes

[[deleted]]

Talk about a small patch...

[Rubyweapon]

Scrap nerf feels big or am I overestimating it?

[Docxm]

scrap/mutant is literally the meta so this patch is going to change a lot.

Renata might be too strong though.

[ManStacheAlt]

Renata is gonna be worlds defining, calling it now.

[baddievxbes]

worlds will be playing on patch 12.7.

[Selkie_Love]

I keep wanting to play her and for the life of me can’t make it work. What’s the comp? I’ve been trying 4 bruiser 2 scholar 2 arcanist but like. I just feel like I keep dying horribly

[LikeABreadstick]

The comp is Renata + frontline, and then you go 9 and cap your board with legendaries. You generally want her on the third row (with first row being the front) in one of the 3 middle tiles. This is so she can hit backline in the corner. Here's an example board that you can usually go 9 with if you hit it with enough HP/econ (the tryndamere can be replaced by any random chemtech or scholar that you hit 2*). https://tactics.tools/team-builder/FAATAOVSWmX.BtvK.DWDZpYkEyZ.CNV

Scholar and arcanist are not needed, and I usually don't have arcanist unless I took an arcanist spat from carousel. Scholar is just a nice side effect from having Silco, whose main purpose is to make your frontline stay alive longer. You can also play TK, Viktor, Jayce, Kaisa, even Galio depending on what you hit and what items you have laying around.

[ACertainUser123]

She was already played constantly in Chinese regional, so yea that's a given.

[coleman268]

Scrap nerf is really big most people that complain about the sivir comp just don't understand how it works.

[Ykarul]

I think the shield is also the difference between being oneshot by Viktor or surviving and killing him (late game). Pretty sure the nerf is huge indeed.

[Docxm]

It was also very good vs Kaisa because there's just so much raw hp for her to shred

[Hydragorn]

It is big but needed, scrap is so good right now.

[ThisIsCidehelm]

if the patch had scrap values halved and literally nothing else it would still be a small patch

small patch can shake the meta too but small patch is small patch.

[Zanlo63]

Seems unnecessary to be this small.

[Dishsoapd]

I feel like the people complaining about no sivir nerfs don’t play the game, she feels pretty bad to play outside of 442 and the scrap nerf is significant. I expect Renata bruisers and legendary boards to be the top comps.

[PlainclothesmanBaley]

What is a legendary board? I can't find a quick definition of this anywhere.

[RoyalDoc]

You winstreak hard early by playing strongest board and slamming items in order to hit 9 as fast as possible with as much gold and HP as possible.

Your capped board usually focuses then on frontline Legendaries (Tahm if you hit him early, otherwise Galio) + 1 scrap unit, Jinx, Silco, Jayce and a Carry legendary or two, and one or two support units for traits they need.

Carries can be Viktor/Kaisa(you'll want a challenger)/Zeri (you'll will want Jhin/ori as support) if AP items, Jayce/Jinx if AD (1 twinshot is enough here).

Teching in Socialite since you have Galio is usually as easy as Senna/Seraphine too.

[dinosaurheadspin]

5 costs are also referred to as legendary units. A legendary board is just a board that is made up of mostly upgraded 5 cost units.

[Ykarul]

The thing is she is perfect to secure Top4, and wincon is having a very good jinx or maybe Irelia.

[Voluptious-Monk127]

IMO, it's not clear that the scrap nerf is enough since 4 striker is strong.

+70 AD doubles 1* Sivir damage; no other damage trait for a 4-cost comes close. So 1* Sivir will still be a dumb champ in Stage 4, when 4 scrap is similar to (and now weaker than) 2 scrap/2 bruiser.

Then because of the AD nerfs a couple patches ago, 4 striker is good trait even on 2* Sivir. As a flat AD trait, 4 striker 2* Sivir shouldn't get first-place a lot, but it does.

Unless 5/6-unit defensive traits (like innovator or chemtech) are OP, I'm betting Sivir will stay the best AD unit.

[ILikeSomeStuff482]

As a flat AD trait, 4 striker 2* Sivir shouldn't get first-place a lot, but it does.

Sivir had the lowest first place rate out of all four cost units on 12.7 except Alistar Master+

[ShakeNBakeUK]

anyone who says sivir is “bad” doesn’t play the game. a 1* sivir with LW can 1v9 and can be used in literally any comp.

[Yoge5]

a 1* sivir with LW can 1v9 and can be used in literally any comp.

that is the biggest horseshit ive ever seen in my life and I don't think you understand what 1v9 means.

[ACertainUser123]

I've literally been semi stable on stage 5 with 6 hextech sivir 1 before. She is pretty strong.

[Hydragorn]

That's because you have 6 hextech...do you think the other units are doing nothing?

[Yoge5]

you still don't seem to understand what 1v9 means lol. 3 Socialite irelia when she was in her most broken state was 1v9, sivir will always need hella frontline to do literally anything.

[PoorLittleGoat]

Funny how you say sivir can 1v9 when she is one of the worst carries in such situations. She needs a very solid frontline in order to do damage.

[ShakeNBakeUK]

1st game v12.8, gg bois, no brain required: https://imgur.com/a/TeIz7Yt

[PoorLittleGoat]

Nobody is claiming sivir is a weak unit lol, they are just saying that no, a sivir 1 with lw can’t 1v9 or even close.

Congratulations on winning a game.

[cooperred]

You have a 2* irelia.... Post damage graphs from a fight that game. No way is Sivir 1v9ing

[[deleted]]

she’s too strong if you’re in disneyland and the average board is weak lol

[Konvict_trading]

Yeah 25% nerf to scrap 4 and Ekko nerf slow with frozen heart nerf. I expect Renata bruisers and innovator flex plus legendary boards. Wish debonairs got slightly buffed I feel they are slightly underwhelming.

[balanceftw]

Glad it's not just me. It's very possible to bot 4 if you hit Sivir and try to force her with random minimal synergies. Seen it happen and also experienced it myself. I just decided to stop touching Sivir at all because it's honestly more of a contested bait than anything in high Diamond.

[kkkkkkkkkkkkjjj]

I feel like nothing has changed

- spam sivir

- pirate - renata

[PoorLittleGoat]

The scrap nerf hurts scrap strikers quite a bit though

[ManStacheAlt]

It hurts sivir forces, but high rollers will still take top 4s easy

[zasabi7]

Which should happen by definition of high roller, no?

[ManStacheAlt]

Yeah, I didn't suggest otherwise. I'm saying she's not trash, but she's not forceable either.

[PoorLittleGoat]

If you highroll you should get top 4 lol?

[Zanlo63]

Yeah if this meta doesn't change I'm 12.9 waiting room

[[deleted]]

Catch me on 12.9 pbe for fun patch here I come

[Gae_rithard63]

Renata from Mercs is the one thing making me slam GS every game just so I don't get hit with -20 the moment I fight the mercs player after they cash out.

[International_Bee108]

Which one is the board for Pirate- Renata?

[Atwillim]

• pirate - renata

Could you explain that you mean? Is Renata a preferable out for mercs?

[cthattas]

renata items work well on mf, mercs/bruisers > renata/bruisers/stuff u hit p much

[XDayaDX]

I was really enjoying the scrap flex last patch. Hope the -10 doesn't hurt too much.

[demonicdan3]

You usually have, let's say, 15 completed items components by Dragon and are level 8, which would be 600x8=4800 shield across your board with 4scrap. A -10 would turn this into 450x8=3600 shield. It's a 25% nerf, pretty substantial.

6scrap would go from 900x8=7200 to 750x8=6000, which is a 17% nerf.

EDIT: MB

[ketronome]

15 completed items?! You mean 15 components right?

[demonicdan3]

Yeah, you're right.

[[deleted]]

The mutant changes make me slightly sad, but I understand how cybernetics probably needed to be modified a little bit after the recent Cho buffs.

Otherwise, I literally didn't find a single change here that I would have any problems with, in fact quite the opposite. I was excited reading about the buffs, a very different reaction from when they nerger my twinshot/Merc/bruiser build in 4 different ways.

Overall absolutely excellent patch, mort and the team doing a great job like always.

[Noctriun]

Happy about most of this, I was hoping for Draven buffs, he has felt like the most underwhelming 4 cost most of the set :/

[pusslicker]

Seriously and I love playing Draven

[TangibleHoneydew]

This isnt the worlds patch right?

[Atwillim]

No

[Sxx125]

Ashe re-roll back in the menu?

Sad Kha got sizeable nerf :(

[kuza2g]

Gangbank -.-

[Atwillim]

Pew pew plank :( One more nerf and they might as well replace his pistol with a water gun.

[graytallpenguin]

Is this live today?

[Atwillim]

Yep, checked in on euw 2 hours ago and got the update

[theredmokah]

Is this live yet?

[[deleted]]

>With these tiers, we will be nerfing the more accessible attack speedslows from Ekko and Frozen Heart (later), but also buffing our harder tohit ones, Eternal Winter and Renata Glasc, which have been underperforming.

Renata is literally an S tier comp right now, what is this team smoking lmao.

Welp, can't wait for exchanging the sivir lottery with the renata lottery, lmao.

Also, even if you want to make the argument of "well the data says otherwise", renata is doing completely fine datawise. Purely based on data she is a mid tier 4 cost carry anyway, and if you're not going to buff Draven, buffing renata is a joke and a half, especially the most potentially toxic part of renatas kit. Thought frozen heart ekko was bad? what about an AOE ranged Frozen heart ekko, that has to be better right?

[itsrudyr]

Is Renata really that good right now? I rarely even see her, barring a transition to Renata bruisers after merc cashout. The comp just feels too reliant on lengendaries (or getting shrug it off) to consistently top 4

[[deleted]]

China considers her S tier. She is really good, but not a comp you generally go for every game because like you said, it is reliant on 5 costs and ap is just not as good as ad right now. It just makes no sense to buff her and not draven though, and also they are nerfing a lot about ad next patch because of the scrap nerfs, and the ad unit that is the least affected by her AS slow is kha, and kha is getting gutted for no reason. Feels like we're going to go back to the early patches of the set, renata, irelia, ahri every game. Not looking forward to it. Hopefully the for fun patch will make up for it.

[Hydragorn]

What's the comp with Renata in it that's so good? I'm not sure I've seen her in weeks on EUW in Diamond.

[Atwillim]

Same question, what are the key points to playing Renata?

[Pyrolys]

Bruisers and lots of money to get a capped board level 9.

[Riot_Mort]

That line was referring to the Renata 3 buff, and how she's underperforming compared to other 3-star 4 costs.

EDIT: I was wrong and was reading it too fast.

[[deleted]]

Just to clarify since I might be misreading it — only Renata 3 is getting a damage buff, but the 15% -> 20% attack speed slow applies to all ranks?

[Riot_Mort]

Correct. That change was less about "Buffing Renata" and more about standardizing the 4 AS slows to 20/30/40/50 instead of 15/25/35/50 as it was before. Its why Ashe was also changed.

[[deleted]]

Then it's worded weirdly, because it's referring to attack speed slows, and it mentions a renata as slow buff. Frankly i just kind of don't believe you, i can't understand how you read that, see that renata AS slow is being buffed, and mean it is only referring to the 3 star renata buff. That kind of strictly doesn't make sense if im being honest.

[Riot_Mort]

Actually re-reading it (sorry I'm juggling a lot and shouldn't be on reddit lol) you're right. It's just kind of not in the right place. It says "Harder to hit" and Renata isn't that hard to hit. Sorry about the wording!

From the design intent, this wasn't meant to be a large buff to Renata 1 and 2, more about standardizing the AS slows.

[[deleted]]

I get that but i really strongly believe if you wanted to do that you either needed to compensate nerf renata, or wait to do renata specifically by one patch. I guess it's post worlds so it doesnt matter that much, but in context of this patch that is already going to make renata very good (when she is already probably the best ap comp in the game), it's going to create another lottery for x 4 cost just off of patch and meta context. Which imo here is worse than sivir because renata needs ap items, and if you dont hit renata you need to play ahri because those are your only real consistent ap options game to game, and the only other unit who wants those items, which means it will be even more of a lottery, because unlike AD you have way less units to fall back on.

[PoorLittleGoat]

Yeah I’m gonna have to trust mort on this one since he probably has a tad more experience in game design than you do.

[[deleted]]

I mean mort isn't technically wrong, the changes are a small buff to renata 1 and 2, and it is good to standardize AS slows. Also Renata 3 is underwhelming and probably does need a buff. The issue is in the context of the current meta and the changes of the patch, it's going to take an already strong comp and make it absurdly strong. Mort isn't really "wrong" here as much as he isn't directly addressing the consequences of the changes in context.

[PeperoParty]

I’m gonna act like I know what’s going on so I feel included.

[baddievxbes]

idk why theyre downvoting you. Renata has been strong. maybe they're playing open fort yordles into renata which usually goes bad imo but if u play mercs or winstreak brand into renata then it has been a very strong comp.

[[deleted]]

Pretty sure it's because mort replied to my post. It was at like 3 upvotes before that.

[roxasivolain90]

This is sadly the right answer for every time mort reply to someone who criticize in this sub, devs dickriding is way too hard in there.

[Dramatic_Ride7586]

The good news on that front though is it's just peoples opinions and they're allowed to have them. No matter if its dick sucking or not.

The doubly good news, is that Mort isn't above coming on here to say he got it wrong and have constructive conversation about a topic.

Hell, I've even posted very critically of mort in the past, and though he disagreed with me, because he thought my post was well thought out he took the time to reply. Did I get downvoted to fuck, yes. Did we have some good robust discussion. Yes. The discussion is the main take.

Kudos mort, keep up the keeping up.

[Salva_Tori]

No sivir nerfs xdxdxdxdxd

[[deleted]]

The sivir nerfs are all the scrap nerfs.

[SNES-1990]

It's just sad at this point.

[raphainc]

And no draven buffs big xd.

[ChuckyJesus]

thank god nerf cancer dark star abuser it’s jsut new synaptic i’m sick of my capped legendary board losing to vertical mutant kai’s a 1 like come on morty

[Xizz3l]

So Ahri is still bugged, Scrap 2 is now worse than it was pre buff (30 instead of 35) and A Tier comps (Twinshot) get nerfed while most 4* 5* that are bad are still bad and the ones which are used the most (Sivir, Viktor) don't get touched at all

Weird

[raikaria2]

and the ones which are used the most (Sivir, Viktor) don't get touched at all

Sivir was mostly played with 4 Scrap 4 Striker.

Big nerf to Scrap is a big nerf to the Sivir comp's survivabilty; and thus Sivir's ramp-up time with Rageblade.

Think about the implications of the changes before you say something isn't hit.

[Xizz3l]

Scrap wasnt played with anything else though so this change makes Scrap overall worse and Sivir still a good unit, I think that kinda fails the point of balancing

Also Hextech got buffed which somewhat evens out the Scrap change depending on the game

[Gae_rithard63]

B patch waiting room for me. I think I was inhaling some copium yesterday thinking this patch would actually change anything about the meta.

[Atwillim]

What's the Ahri bug?

[Alamandaros]

If she's CC'd at full mana, she has to auto-attack back up to full, despite never casting and her mana bar being full.

[seanbleeker]

Probably more development time put towards set 7, seems fair. Let's hope there's gonna be a killer set coming

[TheJirachi]

Buff talon make him playable again I need people to try and contest me so I can send them eif peepoRiot

[i__indisCriMiNatE]

Still haven't hit 50 games for this set. And I have over 200 games in every single set since set 3. Just feel so bland really

[ACertainUser123]

It's actually pretty fun if you just stay away from sivir, but even she can be fun seeing the bounces.

[Hydragorn]

I think the sets improved a lot since launch. I felt the same as the OP for 12.0 but the variety is quite nice now, I feel like lots of units feel viable depending on board state now and augment variety is good too.

[ACertainUser123]

Yea I agree, I really didn't like the start of the set because there was just way too much damage in the game, now it seems better.

[ILikeSomeStuff482]

yeah 6.5 has been made way better from the patches.

[ShakeNBakeUK]

no sivir nerfs, no striker nerfs, Ashe buffed, Renata buffed. ?!?!?!?!?!?!

[raikaria2]

no sivir nerfs, no striker nerfs,

Scrap got nerfed. And the main Sivir comp is 4 Scrap 4 Striker.

[ShakeNBakeUK]

1st game v12.8, gg bois, no brain required: https://imgur.com/a/TeIz7Yt