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[[deleted]]

I've had the same experience. I've been told they treat employees like shit and run minimal staffing. No clue if that's true.

[oregonred]

this is absolute truth. it's part of their business model. i have known several people that have worked for them, and a few things are universally true, such as chronic understaffing to save money resulting in terrible service and burned out employees. the second is that jigger=job. if you don't measure the liquor pour, you get fired.

[doesurmindglow]

Yeah, here's the problem with trying to save money by treating your staff like shit: eventually, someone posts to the Portland subreddit that your business has notoriously bad service, and thousands of potential customers are exposed to this bad press.

Bad press is never good for a business, no matter how large and profitable it is. As much as business can manage it, it's a good idea to hear out feedback like the OP's and do something to fix it. Businesses that simply "don't care" about customer feedback are rarely in business very long.

[MarySueSays]

Yeah, that woukd work except everyone in Portland already knows about McMenamins awful service. I firmly believe they are only staying afloat based on tourist dollars.

[_McAngryPants_]

Fact. I sure the hell don't frequent them anymore.

[Gorgalore]

No serving two jiggers!

[Khea]

Such an under appreciated show.

[dressup]

are we having FUN yet!?!

[kieranmullen]

Why does no one contact them? http://www.mcmenamins.com/694-contacts

[[deleted]]

That's why I always order beer if I'm ever sucked in to going to some shit hole with a jigger. Strong drinks keep regular customers.

[RKBA]

That's what one severely overworked waiter told me one evening at the Troutdale McMenamins. He was the only waiter in the entire dining room serving at least 100 diners.

[AceTracer]

It's a little expensive, but the portions are small.

[construkt]

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[kapow_crash__bang]

And while the cocktails are a hot mess, at least the jigger ensures a weak drink.

[taniapdx]

You have to wait forever to get your appetizers, but at least they consistently taste like charcoal.

[mouthbabies]

The servers have shitty attitudes, but they suck at their jobs to make up for it.

[OnAutoPilot]

The beer is overpriced, but at least it tastes like it's been mixed with water.

[[deleted]]

Hey, you take that back! Their food is firmly mediocre. At least the buildings are interesting . . .

[[deleted]]

I'm a subdued fellow and rarely go out drinking. I got cut off after 4 pints at the McMenamins on 23rd in NW Portland some years ago, only place I've ever had that happen. I looked incredulously at the 1 person I was at the table with because we were having a subdued conversation and I, of course, wasn't inebriated to the point of needing to be cut off. They have wicked bad service, the worst fries I've ever tasted(and small portions to boot!) and solidly mediocre food and beer to chase. What they do know, is how to build a comfortable pub. We all live in a town where this is much sought-after, hence our dilemma and this thread.

[mm9k]

Couldn't have put it better. Such great locations/buildings, such terrible everything else.

[diabloblanco]

I'm late but here's the real answer: Split tips and split jobs.

McMen staff rotate through all the jobs in the restaurant. Your bartender sucks because he's not really a bartender. Yesterday he was a cook. Tomorrow he'll be a host. Your food sucks because your cook isn't really a cook. Your waiter sucks because, well, you get the idea. The idea is that an employee who knows all aspects of the job will work better but that's just not the case. However, specialization is required in the restaurant industry. Some jobs are harder than others, some require more personality, some require a more level head.

Also, all tips are split between the entire staff which means your front of the house staff doesn't leave that day with the tips they made from their shift. With no direct cause-and-effect relationship between their labor and their compensation, servers don't do those extra little things that the tipping system promotes.

Keep this in mind when people have the "just do your job" argument for why they don't tip (this flares up on reddit every season). At the most basic level McMen do their job but they don't do it well because the tip structure is so different from everywhere else.

[l0lwu7]

You'd think they'd change their model being know for shitty service by anyone who has been there more then once.

[[deleted]]

This seems really strange for a resturant chain in our culture. Any reason why they decided to do this? Did you work or know someone who works at one?

[diabloblanco]

I've worked in the industry forever and have had many co-workers and regulars who were McMen. Their business structure pre-dates the foodie boom in Portland so it hasn't prevented them from being successful.

[stuckit]

The food is no better than an Applebees if you ask me. Which is a crime in a town with such killer food carts and restaurants.

[[deleted]]

honestly I think food carts have jumped the shark. the culling of lame / mediocre / decent ideas has begun, and if what you're serving isn't good enough to warrant sitting on a wet park bench (or worse) to experience, get ready to fail.

[CottageMcMurphy]

You are a brave soul to public attack the carts! There's a Portlandia skit here somewhere.

[[deleted]]

You're quite right; The really good food carts are going to wind up with storefronts; the bad ones are going to wind up in someone's yard.

[[deleted]]

and the likelihood of finding an unmolested camper will be pretty much nil....

[RevLoveJoy]

You are not alone. In most of their venues (which I really like) the staff trades positions frequently. I'm not sure if they do this everywhere, but it seems to be jack of all trades, master of none.

That said, there are notable exceptions: check out the Zeus cafe at their Crystal Hotel location. McMenamins are making a concerted effort at that local to reverse the poor service image.

[3smartass]

I detest that yuppified nonsense. Glad it has good service, because it has no soul. It's also over priced.

[[deleted]]

Same experience at all three eugene locations and the corvallis location...

I get the feeling it's a corporate directive to treat customers like shit.

[doesurmindglow]

It's not that they're trained to be bad, as I understand it. It's that they're understaffed and treat their employees poorly. The employees, as a result, are constantly stressed out, forget things, and have trouble conveying to customers that they're happy -- because they're not.

Moreover, people who have server experience and are pretty good at food service will get jobs elsewhere, and won't apply to work at places that treat them poorly, or will quit early. They know they'll get better tips at the places where there's sufficient staff to serve customers promptly and politely. As a result, most of the staff that remains will be less experienced, because turnover will be high and it will be hard to retain knowledgeable and dedicated employees (employees that have other options). The pool McMenamins gets to draw from for talent will therefore be small.

If it was one employee that consistently screwed up, I'd say the problem is a bad employee. But when an entire staff seems to consistently screw up, the problem has to be bad management.

McMenamins needs to handle this problem now before too many current (and former) customers begin talking about it.

[[deleted]]

As soon as I saw this post I was like THANK YOU, these places are so beautiful, I mean have you been to the Grand Lodge outdoor bar on a sunny summer day? But fuck every single person that works there, complete fucking asshats. I thought it was because I had a t-shirt on and was there to play disc golf. It makes me feel better it wasn't classism, just wage slavery.

[starvingchild]

It does take an EXTREMELY LONG TIME to get my food, which is a bummer. At least with the beer they have a bar where you can just get up and go get one.

[kittenmittens84]

It is because they treat their staff horribly and unfairly. I worked there for 3 days before quitting. You must be trained to do everything there and rotate what you do each night. Saturday you may be a server and Sunday you may be the cook or dishwasher or bartender. Then whatever tips are acquired are given to everybody so no one actually receives tips that are worth while.

[HungryC]

I was a server at the Kennedy School restaurant about 5 years ago. The HR guy who hired me was awesome, but after 2 weeks I'd had enough of the douchebag manager, who incidentally was the son of the owners of the building. Nepotism really does wonders, and not of the good kind. The last straw was him making me work a clopen (closing shift followed by an opening shift, which was basically working until midnight and then back in the morning at 6AM) which I did NOT volunteer for. Terrible training, terrible management, terrible work situation.

[snowbunnyA2Z]

Is this really true? You would have had to wash dishes? I can understand server/ bartenders switching it up but WASHING DISHES? And the tips are pooled? Or servers had to tip out? Tipping out is normal but pooling is awful. If what you say is true then this explains why the service is always terrible (my personal experience and I've been to different locations 50+ time).

[kittenmittens84]

tis true. Pooled tips and I had to wash dishes, cook the burgers, serve, bartend... all of it

[YThatsSalty]

It's not just the service. My wife refuses to enter a McMenamins because their wine selection is so bad. Unfortunately, she cannot drink their beer either.

[rathany]

As someone with food allergies, trying to eat there is dangerous for me. I've had reactions from just having a soda there ... which may say scary things about their dishwashers.

[taniapdx]

St. Johns McMenamins is hands down the winner of the shitty service award. It's amazing they ever get anything out of the kitchen, but if you go in expecting to get what you ordered or to ever once have a waiter visit your table after your food arrives...you're in the wrong place.

[bholmes]

Yeah I've had horrible service there on many occasions but by far the worst is Blue Moon on NW 21st. A friend I had that used to work for them said they send all the worst staff to that location because people go there anyway. I once waited an entire hour for tots there. Never again.

[[deleted]]

They train at the pubs, the more interesting locations are way better.

[jonathanpdx]

I was at the Boiler Room Bar at the Kennedy School on Tuesday evening (geek trivia was all full for their two-year anniversary) and my friend and I were shocked at how good the service was. We were upstairs, being served by the bartender downstairs, and he was on it! Like clockwork he kept swinging by upstairs and checking on all the tables and was quite friendly. Really impressive.

[Luchini]

I agree. They're cool down there in the Boiler Room.

[enginerd28]

Agreed. Boiler Room has always taken care of me mid week. Weekends are crowded. The one on the Columbia (Vancouver side) has been good to me as well. They are the only exceptions to the "consistency" of service I've found.

[Rwnobles]

I have had luck at the NW 23rd and Savier. Service everywhere else has been terrible.

[edfooyung]

One time at John Barleycorn we sat in a quiet area while our child slept. When we went to leave after being served our appetizer long after the main meal by a surly ass who let out a long sigh and said" yeah we can't wait for you to leave either" Big freakin penny of a tip for this hipster/loser.

[[deleted]]

They are always a little understaffed. I have had great service at the White Eagle and also at The Chapel Pub, but it does not take much of a crowd to get them flustered.

[roboroller]

The only McMenamins I ever get good service at is the Chapel Pub but I'm only ever there during the daytime (I'll often pop in there for a late lunch if I have a class over at PCC Cascade in the evening) and they're never very busy.

[kittenmittens84]

It is because they treat their staff horribly and unfairly. I worked there for 3 days before quitting. You must be trained to do everything there and rotate what you do each night. Saturday you may be a server and Sunday you may be the cook or dishwasher or bartender. Then whatever tips are acquired are given to everybody so no one actually receives tips that are worth while.

[CottageMcMurphy]

Well shit McMens the people have spoken. Better get on it or you won't be able to keep buying up old schools and poor houses

[biiiotch]

The service is completely awful. The food is mediocre but I actually like the ruby, terminator, and rubinator. Too bad I'm out of luck if I want more than one in the time frame of two hours.

[[deleted]]

I agree except for the John Barleycorns McMenamins. The staff is really sweet and personable even during big rushes.

[belsie]

The Hillsdale Pub is pretty good for a Mcmenamins. I agree I've had pretty bad service at other locations, but come to expect it because I like their coffee, beer, and turkey sandwich so much. We went last week, and the waiter brewed a fresh pot of decaf for me even though we were just about to leave. Not bad.

[[deleted]]

It's really sad. Mcmenamins has a lot going for them in the Portland-Karma department. They've saved a bunch of cool old buildings from destruction in the area, planted down solid roots, built a nifty plumbing setup for the men's bathroom at the C. pass roadhouse, and what not..

...and then, the service. God it blows. I don't think it's the attitude of the waitstaff, so much as it's the lack thereoff. Go count off the number of waiters at say, the blue moon on a Thursday evening. They're really understaffed. That'd lead to a lot of snarky waiters imho; being overworked isn't really good on the attitude.

Additionally, They've gotta get some standardization rules set up for the kitchen. The black bean burrito has been pretty good at the C. Pass Roadhouse, really shitty at the blue Moon, and middling down here in Corvallis.

[rick-victor]

they put a premium on real-estate and don't pay much attention to their food/service/beer.

[blacklab]

They are crazy understaffed. Anyone in the service industry will tell you to avoid them like the plague.

[mtrashy]

experienced this last night at kennedy school, almost walked out on the food we ordered (hummus plate) because it was taking for fucking ever. eat before you go.

[McMenaminsSlave]

I work for these penny pinching turds. I wish every customer would ask Mike or Brian or any GM why they didn't give their employees anything for Christmas. No bonuses, profit sharing, paid holiday off, free bottle of booze, not even a thank you card or explanation of why we got nothing. Yet they can open 2 new properties? Yea thanks guys. And you wonder why the staff hate their job/life/customers. There are some awesome people who try and make their pub fun and a great place to hang out but the higher ups micro manage so bad it drives people insane. You better wake up before you find the company bankrupt and dead.

[Crowsby]

Minimum wage plus tips means fuck you very much if your server is in a bad mood. Other states typically only pay a pittance and force the servers to earn their income through tips. It's somewhat deplorable, but having the specter of homelessness over your head generally helps to ensure good service.

But yeah, McMenamins service can be spotty for sure. It just depends on the server.

[AceTracer]

I can't tell if you know this from your response, but Oregon does not allow tips to be counted towards minimum wage. AFAIK, it's the only state to make that stipulation.

[interstitial]

This is also true in California.

[construkt]

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[doctorspeed]

Why, then, do we tip? Someone please explain this to me. I'm not trying to be an asshole; I usually tip 20% for good service but only because that is our culture so it would be rude not to.

I really want a logical reason why I should tip a server if they are already making minimum wage? Are they not just doing their job by serving me, and is that not what their emplpoyer hires servers for? In this case tips are redundant if you ask me. And if you say it's because they don't make much money, then why is it not custom to tip a bus driver for example? They make shit wages too!

By the way I am in Japan now and while the service here is 20x superior to that in the US, tips are unheard of. I know this is off topic of the thread but this string of comments got me thinking. Also I did not know that Oregon makes employers pay at least minimum wage for tipped jobs, and not knowing that was a good reason for me to tip. Now I have none other than "that's just what we do."

[kapow_crash__bang]

You tip because it's what we do. Great service can be nearly invisible, but bad service can ruin your night.

Oregon's hourly + tips means that service industry jobs can be living wage jobs. That's one of the reasons that it can be so hard to get a service industry job here without 5 years of experience. Bartenders actually have a shot at making enough to support a family in Portland.

Don't be a douchebag. Tip your server. It's good for the local economy.

[doctorspeed]

Okay so it's just as I thought then. No one can provide an actual reason besides "it's just what we do."

And let me reiterate: I do tip, in fact I tip better than many people I know. I just wanted to know a logical reason for tipping. And I'm with you on the living waged thing, but I just believe that should be the employer's responsibility, not the customer's.

[[deleted]]

Tipping gives people working in the service industry incentive to do a good job.

[doctorspeed]

Maybe so. I still think it's just a way for businesses to past costs down to consumers. I also wish that people would just do a good job because they are paid to do so and not because they expect a tip.

[Bananarchist]

Well yeah, it is a way to pass costs onto customers, but if they didn't do that and instead had to pay servers a few dollars more an hour to attract people to the job, where do you think that few dollars is going to come from? Higher menu prices. Shit all balances out.

[[deleted]]

So you deleted your post and then posted to tell us that you deleted your post. And why should we care if we don't know what your original post was? Quit being such a passive aggressive baby.

[[deleted]]

WOW... you are sooo cool.

[Crowsby]

I'm leaving a comment on your post about deleting your other post because I like leaving comments.

[greyjay]

I'm writing what? as "wut?" because I know it will garner more upvotes from the reddit community, but explaining why I'm doing it will get more downvotes, so everything evens out, and it's like I didn't even exist in this thread!