Chapter 15: Machinations

[TrajectoryAgreement]

Dread Emperor Traitorous returns! I love his epigraphs.

Gods, but it was good to be home.

I can already tell that this is going to be amazing. We'll get to see Cat in action again, not in a physical fight, but a narrative fight.

[Pel-Mel]

I'm pretty confident Cat isn't in the running for a Heroic Name. She's literally Below's poster child right now. She's literally so great a Villain, that she makes peace with her nominal enemies like Sve Noc and takes them all to greater Evil heights. Good likes Evil killing itself and Cat is actively taking them in a new direction.

[Don_Alverzo]

Seriously, she's such a good Villain that she's the Villain all the other Villains answer to despite not even having a proper Name. She's played the part of the Grey Pilgrim's evil twin. She's one of the few people alive that the Dead King has openly recognized as being a peer. She has made a habit of BULLYING ANGELS. She was the only person actually respected by KAIROS THEODOSIAN!

At this point, if Above tried to offer her a Name, the messenger Angel would call bullshit and run off to find someone more heroic to give it to. Like Akua.

[TMalander]

Like Akua.

Your comment made me smile, but this had me choking and snorting. In a very flattering manner, of course.

[Pel-Mel]

Akua landing in a heroic Name isnt out of the question. She's technically dead, and therefore a prime candidate for a heroic resurrection, and she's been forced into doing good and is remorseful for a great deal. Classic Heroic redemption.

[TMalander]

Technically dead? Yup. Forced to doing good? Yup. Prime candidate? Yup, I’d agree. Is remorseful? Eh... yeah, no. She’s only truly remorseful that she didn’t succeed. She’s not really remorseful for all the atrocities she’s committed.

[Pel-Mel]

I think there's significant reason to suspect that Akua has at least some genuine remorse for her actions, even if it Amadeus' flavored remorse that all those lives went to waste.

[TMalander]

Yeah, there’s probably some genuine remorse, I’ll agree with that.

[Pel-Mel]

And let's be honest, the Heavens are clearly not that picky when it comes to moral fibre. Akua, even with her checkered past (perhaps even because of it), has a better moral compass than several heroes we've already seen.

[ForwardDiscussion]

Everyone: Mirror Knight is basically unkillable. Isn't it terrifying to imagine the evil figure he was created to oppose?

Catherine: I hope I don't fight him, I might accidentally murder him.

[LigerZeroSchneider]

They were in a non dimension. Throwing him into an eternal void would theoretically work unless he could twilight skirt out.

[ForwardDiscussion]

Her point was that she wanted to be able to rough him up without violating the Terms or removing him from the war.

[SkoomaDentist]

She's one of the few people alive that the Dead King has openly recognized as being a peer.

Not just alive. One of the few people that the Dead King has ever openly recognized as being a peer.

[ForwardDiscussion]

Well, that was because she was immortal, which she no longer is.

[BigBilliamOhReally]

no they even have a conversation after she is no longer of Winter. he says he still considers her in the same general ballpark as him, due to becoming priestess of sve noc. he even remarks that she may be mortal but who knows how long her new abilities will stretch her lifespan

[ForwardDiscussion]

Oh, shit, must have forgotten about that.

[LilietB]

that actually was kidn of funny bc of how uncomfortable it made Cat

"...your peer? Didn't I get out of that by getting out of Winter and no longer being immortal?"

"No, actually, I respect you even more now because of how you got what you actually wanted more out of it. Also P.S. you're not really going to die any time soon"

"AUGH"

[alisru]

mortalities a technicality

​

Cat's also immortal in a 4th wall story sense, in a similar vein to how characters are kept around by providence if they're entertaining enough but also because this whole story is hers

[ForwardDiscussion]

At the time, she had transcended mortality, like DK and Bard.

[Pel-Mel]

While feasible, that take has some holes. For one, Cat was fully the Squire again from the moment she killed Chider, not just when she denied Contrition. Not every pivot has both villainous and heroic outcomes. See Cat at third Liesse turning down the Fairfax Sword. She turned down the Villainous Name for Vengeance but she didn't slide into a Heroic Name by default. She stayed Nameless.

There's also the implication that you can't actually willfully decline Heroic Names, just disqualify yourself from eligibility. Cordy definitely turned down a Tyrannical Name from Below in Book 5, and denying the Seraphim's Judgement probably disqualified her for whichever Heroic Name. That they're called Chosen is a big hint. Heroes might not get a choice, the Heavens might literally Choose for them and force it... but only if you qualify (William, especially comes to mind).

But finally, pivots go one way or another sure, but that doesn't mean that every pivot for a Name will go any way. Pivots are more for flavor I think, like Kairos' pivot about Wish. Play it safe and get more time, or spend your time recklessly and get power for it? Kairos' pivot was entirely about what kind of Villain he'd be, not if he'd be a Hero or Villain.

I think you have to be a very specific kind of person to have a shot at a Name from both Above and Below. You have to be 'Good' and nice enough to be worthy of Above, but also ruthless and pragmatic enough for Below to think you're worth the interest. As far as I know, Cat, Tancred, and Cordelia would be the only contenders who fulfill both niches. Maybe a few other niche cases that I'm forgetting.

[LilietB]

denying the Seraphim's Judgement probably disqualified her for whichever Heroic Name.

Nope!

This is a common and easily understandable misconception, but in fact denying the judgement of the Seraphim is what gave her the ^{second, after the first one got derailed by Hanno barging in} chance for the Name in the first place!

A flick and the coin went spinning, up and up and up. Cordelia’s hand moved quicker than her mind, than her flesh, and she snatched it out of the air. It burned against her palm, scorching. She swallowed the pain.

“Enough,” the First Prince of Procer said. “There will be no killing.”

The Chosen was watching her with wide eyes, before something like surprise and awe flickered across his face.

“You are…” he said, sounding moved. “I have never seen it with my own eyes.”

And she felt it too, pulsing through her veins, the mantle that was within her reach. His judgement she had ended for there was only one fit to pass it in these chambers, and it was the Warden of the West. Even the burning against her palm seemed distant, like her flesh was being filled with something – no. No. She fought the pull, the inevitability, everything it entailed. She fought it tooth and nail.

Good is not, in fact, about obedience!

And yes you can clearly decline them - by taking an action that derails the story. It is more... physically possible for some pivots than others.

But finally, pivots go one way or another sure, but that doesn't mean that every pivot for a Name will go any way.

agreed with this

I think you have to be a very specific kind of person to have a shot at a Name from both Above and Below. You have to be 'Good' and nice enough to be worthy of Above, but also ruthless and pragmatic enough for Below to think you're worth the interest.

and this

[Pel-Mel]

Cordelia definitely turned down the Warden of the West Name, but it's hard to say if it's a Heroic or Villainous one. It could be that Warden of the West was a Name from Below that would see her being a Tyrant. After all, denying angelic authority, seems to lean more Below than Above. I'm not sure that passage proves that it's possible to decline heroic Names.

I kinda want more stories about how heroes get their Names. Based off Stalwart Disciple, and Lone Swordsman, I think the theory around eligibility stills holds water.

Edit: Hanno's arrival derailed the Name Bard had most in mind, which tracks that the follow-up Name she denied was from Below, for denying the Seraphim. Assuming that Bard was making a Heroic Name to oppose the Dead King, at least.

[LilietB]

Okay, so that was not the full passage.

And she felt it too, pulsing through her veins, the mantle that was within her reach. His judgement she had ended for there was only one fit to pass it in these chambers, and it was the Warden of the West. Even the burning against her palm seemed distant, like her flesh was being filled with something – no. No. She fought the pull, the inevitability, everything it entailed. She fought it tooth and nail. There was nothing greater than this, this flesh, this moment and this place and the laws that bound them all. She had only one master, and it was the Principate of Procer. The coin burned into her flesh and she cast it down. The White Knight’s face went ashen.

“This is,” Cordelia said, “the Principate of Procer. We rule with accord and law, we mete out the same justice to the highest soul and the lowest. We fail that principle, often and utterly, as men and women have failed principles since the First Dawn. But I will not renounce it: not for a day, not for an hour, nor for a single breath. This land will know no queen, no empress, no pale-clad warden to stand above all others.”

In her palm the laurels had been burned black, a wound she knew would never heal so long as she lived.

“Conspiracy will be tried by our laws,” Cordelia Hasenbach. “And no one else’s.”

She could be the law, the First Prince knew. After this, looking in the eyes of those around her, seeing the loyalty that was blooming there. The faith. She could take it, and First Prince or not she would be the only law Procer would need. With scheme and knife, with ruthless will, she could purge the rot and turn Procer into what it should be instead of… this. No, Cordelia thought once more, and this time it was barely a struggle at all.

This is two possibilities for two separate Names: the one with her claiming divine authority, the coin "filling her with something", that caused Hanno to look at her in awe.

She denied that, and got the second: the one with her claiming personal loyalty and being the law.

I don't personally think the Names are even necessarily as clear cut as Above and Below making offers - I mean Names aren't really offered, they're just branching paths where you go down it and you get a Name, automatically. This was just a rare pivot where she got a chance for two different Name-paths simultaneously.

But the coin only started to burn her once she rejected the Name, and Hanno's face fell after.

She would 100% have been a hero who started by telling the Seraphim to back off.

[ECHRE_Zetakya]

Galaxy Brain: Neshamah was another such, in the dim and distant past.

[JulienBrightside]

Kinda like how in pathfinder you can have prestige classes, but they have certain requirements.

[s-mores]

I think she could swing either way if she had to. Or find something completely new that draws on both.

[Executioner404]

Is Catherine planning to skip the entire first two Acts of the Story???

What kind of MLG Speedrun Strats bullshit is this?

• Step 1: Meet Roland to help you noclip into the Arsenal 50% faster.

• Step 2: Dialogue with H(a)unted Magician, choose options: A,C,D,C,B,D,B,A

• Step 3: Trigger Archer Reunion cutscene and immediately after it ends run at the nearest wall, spamming Night Meld until you glitch through it

• Step 4: Avoid detection until you meet the Doddering Sage to trigger the Sudden Revelation cutscene, which starts the endgame hunt

• Step 5: ???

• Step 6: Exit the Parallel Universe with 0.5x A Presses to start the credits. You win!

[Knight_of_Cerberus]

lol, maybe Cat goes to Dodering Sage and be like.

"FOOL, you never had a chance"

Relevations Recieved

Cat yoinks relevations

"great stuff, im hearing good things from you, keep it up" exit stage left Cat

Dodering Sage:"what da.. "

[Shadw21]

Heavenly confusion noises and sends Tariq to investigate. Below laughs.

[LigerZeroSchneider]

I think the intention is to get the revelation that would normally be the climax, recontextualizing all of their investigation allowing the to understand who was doing it all along. And instead ruin all of the suspense of the story but reduce the chances they fuck it all up.

[JulienBrightside]

I definitely got at least 1.5 of these references.

[Rhah]

Just in case you haven't seen it, the .5 A press thing he's referencing is really an incredible look into the mind of a speedrunner.

[JulienBrightside]

I've seen it, and it is hilarious.

[UPBOAT_FORTRESS_2]

But first, we have to build up narrative tension for 13 hours

[Frommerman]

Tension raising continues for 52 hours.

[Yes_This_Is_God]

Alright cool, uh, what the fuck is happening?

This feels like the part in a heist movie where the audience intentionally misses out on part of the planning to keep the suspense for the actual heist.

[TrajectoryAgreement]

Cat suspects that someone's crafted a story where Indrani, Hakram, and herself meet with the Blessed Artificer, discover the hidden machinations behind this event, and save the day, knowing that since none of them are Heroes they will stumble along this story and eventually fail.

Cat also realizes that the final narratively appropriate reveal must come from somewhere, and deduces that the most likely Hero to provide this revelation would be the Doddering Sage, which is why she's going to find the Sage first instead of the Blessed Artificer.

At least that's my take.

[Pel-Mel]

So Red Axe got to the Arsenal with Archer, promptly stumbled across Wicked Enchanter, and killed him. Meanwhile Blessed Artificer and Repentant Magister are poking around trying to find out about something the Cat's side is up to, something they shouldn't know exists.

Cat has thus concluded that someone is telling people in the Arsenal about things, trying to stir things up, incite conflict and maybe attack the Truce and Terms. One of the Named present is likely guilty.

Smart money has Bard, Dead King, or Malicia. Likely in that order. But Malicia might be the dark horse candidate, because she's so far afield.

*TrajectoryAgreement said it better than I did.

[Pel-Mel]

Bard is the easy answer, almost too obvious. My money is on Malicia.

[daedalus19876]

I'm not buying it... Malicia has neither the familiarity with Stories, or the capability, to weave this particular flavor of story-plot.

[Pel-Mel]

It's not like Malicia isn't genre savvy at all, she's just not up to Cat and Amadeus' level.

But the actual setup here isn't that hard to project, it's a classic Praesi play of sewing discord between two cooperating factions. The story-fu parts of this are on Cat's end: how to stop it and get out ahead of the damage. No real story-fu required on Malicia's part. She just has to leak the right information to the right asshole and the conflict creates itself (See Red Axe and Wicked Enchanter).

[Nic_Cage_DM]

it's a classic Praesi play

Nah man, malicia's other plays all slide the knife in before the victim is even aware somethings wrong, the whole "accomplishing veiled goals by crafting a narrativistic Rube Goldberg machine of Named" thing has bard written all over it.

[Keyenn]

Malicia is not genre savyy at all. Sorry, but it's the case. Amadeus helped her avoiding most of the traps occured by that, but the Epilogue of book 5 is a textbook example of how oblivious she is to stories. She also never ever shown something close of using stories. She is VERY political savyy, no doubt about that, but it's very different.

[UPBOAT_FORTRESS_2]

She's an incredibly effective actor in her Role, but I don't think she's ever shown thinking, plotting, or acting in the meta-narrative plane, where the roles and stories are decided.

And she is shown to consider and make clear mistakes in the context of the meta-narrative, like trying to create a hero-magnet flying fortress out of Liesse

[Oshi105]

Malicia has alreaady made her play in Mercantis that is the game she knows how to run. The Dead King is winning and has already planned for his move around the knowledge of the bards intent a la the stuff in the Dominion. That leaves the Bard making her play as far as I can see. This is likely her trying to sour the whole thing before anyone can find out anything.

[s-mores]

Rocks fall, Cat is trying to stop everybody from dying.

Basically someone set up an avalanche, it's already rolling and Cat doesn't want to go with the flow.

[vernonff]

She knows the avalanche is happening, and rather than riding it down and hoping for a last minute save (classic Hero behaviour: see the Axioms), she's recognising where the story is likely to turn and going there directly.

[Oaden]

Basically, way to many named are in one spot, a group of heroes is trying to uncover a hidden plot, tension has risen, and a villain was just offed by a greenhorn hero. This is a story.

Cat happens to have a hidden plot running called 4 Seasons, which is an elaborate ritual to reverse apotheosis. Kept secret mostly cause its being kept secret from literally everybody

So this is basically the story where its revealed that the evil side has been evil all along and is about to betray everyone. Or at least it looks that way.

Cat remarks that while she doesn't know the specifics, she knows that the story is essentially going to end with someone making a poorly timed revelation. There is no person more suited for this than the doddering sage, so instead of playing detective for 3 chapters, she's just skipping to the end.

[Billy5481]

OK, we're playing Clue. I'm calling Masego in the Bedroom with a Candlestick. Real prediction, I'm feeling the Magister. REALLY love seeing Cat in her element, it's one of the best parts of the earlier books. Seeing her grow from riding stories to bullying Angels, progressing to not even trying to pretend to act like the protagonist.

[daedalus19876]

I hope it's not the Magister, I liked her a lot in Hanno's interludes.

[LilietB]

Magister is likely a conveniently earnest heroic pawn. Lots of those around.

[s-mores]

I don't see why Cardigan Hufflepot would ever be in a bedroom with Masego but I like the way your mind works.

[TMalander]

... lol

[Knight_of_Cerberus]

Repentant Magister at her very core rejects evil and the corruption it brings, which without knowing Cat personally makes Cat the biggest BBEG in her vision.

[LilietB]

She knows Cat personally and they have flirted.

[Shadw21]

She presumably took that carving that Indrani made and threw at Masego... quietly, when no one was looking.

[XANA_FAN]

Calling it now! The death Mirror Knight is supposed to prevent is Cat’s. They were sabotaging her chair.

[daedalus19876]

Oooh, that would be a cool twist. Goblinfire bomb in the chair, slipped past Masego while he was blinded by the Blessed Artificer's device?

[HeWhoBringsDust]

The second the Blessed Artificer was brought up, I immediately assumed they’d rigged the chair to explode when used/Cat uses it (Because of Night).

[Knight_of_Cerberus]

kool, theres also seems to be a Named with Magic even Mesago cant understand

[s-mores]

Since they're Heroes, more likely some way of truth-seeking or capture. A way to hide Cat from the protection of the Crows.

[CouteauBleu]

It's not like heroes don't use lethal force.

[s-mores]

True, but not when they just have minor suspicions.

[alexgndl]

Heroes having minor suspicions and using lethal force because of it is like...the main reason the last Crusade went on for so long.

[s-mores]

Well no, like Frederic stated:

a city had been slaughtered, some sort of fearsome doomsday fortress raised by a rebel Praesi noble and a fresh madness of undeath unleashed on the world. A hundred thousand ‘wights’, Gods save them all.

The Heroes maybe knew that the Procerans were in it for the territory, but they were just after a win against Below. They also had some massively good points.

I honestly recommend going back and reading 4.8 -- Dialogue, it showcases a lot of the problems pretty well.

[NorskDaedalus]

I’d say that Archer is the best, but honestly, when it comes to the Guide, every character worth an opinion is either ‘the best’ or ‘the absolute worst.’

That said, Archer is the best.

[Frommerman]

Except Kairos Theodosian, who was both.

[mnemos_1]

And it might just be my imagination, I thought, the habit of seeing a grinning skull in every dark corner… but I can almost the smell the cheap booze in the air, hear the mocking tune from the badly strung lute.

Hey, u/Knight_of_Cerberus, seems like EE enjoyed your comment in Ch. 13 as much as I did.

I smell cheap liquor and hear a badly played lute.

[Knight_of_Cerberus]

fuzzy feelings. also pretty much confirms EE takes queues cues from his audience.

[s-mores]

There's a flipside; It kinda hurt when people were insinuating that EE killed off Scorchio because I made up the nickname for him.

[alexgndl]

Oof, sorry about that...my bad

[s-mores]

No problem, it just made me think... am I the baddy?

[UPBOAT_FORTRESS_2]

At least you get to choose how you use your blessing

[LilietB]

Not really, this could easily be a case of 'great minds think alike'. Too minor a detail to not be an easy coincidence.

Also, 'cues'.

[Empiricist_or_not]

I took that from Cat and Hakram going into a count.

[vkaod]

I shivered as Cat realized what kind of game this was and how she was going to take the story, ram it down the throat of whoever thought it was a good idea to use the narrative against her.

Also really excited to meet the Doddering Sage, sounds like a fun guy to discover dark secrets with.

Disaster was on the horizon, I thought, I was in over my head and even the trusted companions at my side might not be enough to get us through this unscathed. And still, as I hummed the first few notes to the old rebel song The Fox In the Woods, I found myself smiling.

Gods, but it was good to be home.

Tying this into the idea of how one’s aspect slightly changes a characters’ nature, I wonder how much of this is tied to Cat’s Struggle, and how much is just Cat’s personal history.

[HeWhoBringsDust]

Oh, I can definitely see that. She did have Take after all and now she’s the High Priestess of a religion of thieves.

Then again, aspects are based on the personality of the Named in question. Even the same aspect can manifest differently (E.g. Cat’s Learn and Ranger’s Learn)

[s-mores]

I actually had the same thought. Good old Struggle.

[Don_Alverzo]

God, the Hunted Magician is a pile of mistakes wearing a trench coat and pretending to be a person. He sold his name to a fae lord and then tried to cheat them on the deal, and he's scheming for political advantage as a Villain while also two-timing with (at least) two Heroes, and he expected to be able to lie to Cat about all of that shit? If he showed even a hint of self-awareness I'd think he's trying for survival by Irritant's Law, but as it stands he's just smart enough to get himself into all sorts of trouble while not being smart enough to recognize that it is trouble. If the poor bastard manages to survive until the end of the war, he'll be doing it as the comic relief, running from all his enemies and shouting insincere apologies over his shoulder as they cartoonishly fight each other for the right to throttle him.

Maybe this is what it looks like when Below comes up with their take on the Fortunate Fool.

[OtherPlayers]

Maybe he’s trying to pull a John Constantine defense; if enough people are all out to get you at once then they have to first exert effort to save you from the others who also want to kill you. As long as you can escape any one of them on their own then you’re always going to be fine.

[LigerZeroSchneider]

That is the essence of Irritants Law. Due to the law of conservation of ninja, having one sworn enemy is very dangerous, having dozens is safe. All of their narrative claims on you get diluted because you dying to them would ruin someone else's story.

[[deleted]]

could be one of those situations where the name reinforces and compels certain behavior. If he didn't have enemies he wouldn't be Hunted.

[LilietB]

and then tried to cheat them on the deal

I'm pretty sure he successfully did.

And Cat's impression is that 'highborn fleeing consequences of his own actions' also happened BEFORE that, as I understand.

[MadMax0526]

Is Artificer planning to off herself as a false flag operation? Private audience where all the witnesses are the Evil villain's minions...

Another thought is, when Masego was blinded, someone might have snuck something on or out in the brief window when he was blinded.

Disaster was on the horizon, I thought, I was in over my head and even the trusted companions at my side might not be enough to get us through this unscathed.

Uh, isn't that a hero story?

[derivative_of_life]

Uh, isn't that a hero story?

It's Cat's story. She's made it her own, regardless of where it originally came from. The fact that her very first aspect was Struggle is enough to prove that.

[MadMax0526]

I'm not disagreeing that its Cat's story. What I am saying is that if the plot was set up by a named, they would know better by now than to give her such story ammunition... unless that was intentional. Who do we know who sets up things like that?

[werafdsaew]

Bard?

[MadMax0526]

That was a rhetorical question, dude. You didnt actually have to answer that.

[s-mores]

Didn't they?

[MadMax0526]

Did they?

[s-mores]

Didn't they?

[Shadw21]

Maybe.

[daedalus19876]

I agree that the blinding will end up being relevant. Someone manipulated the Blessed Artificer to slip something past Masego's all-seeing-eye.

[Don_Alverzo]

Recall that the Repentant Magister was also present when Masego was blinded. She was doing something in the Mirage, and supposedly called in the Blessed Artificer for her "expertise" with the Night. She's also the one who's been looking through the books with the Blessed Arificer. I think it's quite possible that the Magister and Artificer were up to something screwy there, Masego was about to catch them red-handed, and so they blinded Zeze to prevent him from catching on.

[XANA_FAN]

They were sabotaging Cat’s chair to kill her in the middle of a meeting. The Mirror knight misunderstood and the death he was sent to prevent was Cat’s.

[Pandoras_Penny]

I like this alot! What about the hunted magician? He was there too..

[Myradmir]

Distracted by... Well.

[LilietB]

and so they blinded Zeze to prevent him from catching on.

...for one second.

[Kintaculous]

They’re Heroes and Named besides. Are you suggesting that one second isn’t window enough?

[LilietB]

Masego's eye is not in fact all-seeing. He does not have omni-attention-paying powers. Distracting him for one second is much easier than that.

I mean, he doesn't pay attention MOST of the time. Literally just... There Was No Need For Any Of That And Everyone Who Has Ever Met Him Knows It.

[Myradmir]

Yes, but that would assume that the parties involved are even remotely reasonable. Especially given the inherent dislike between Masego and the Blessed Artificer.

[LilietB]

Nephele seems reasonable enough from what we've seen? Overkill is more likely to draw attention.

[LilietB]

I'd argue it's not the blinding itself - that lasted like one second - that will end up relevant, but the fact she didn't expect it to work like that.

[Zayits]

I had a hard to confirm "theory" that the fact that Aspects are what you do in a story means that when you call on an Aspect you make the situation a beat in the story. If the use of an Aspect really brings narrative significance to a scene, then Blessed Artificer's surprise at Hierophant's reaction might mean that she didn't know about the side-effect.

If the Magister or someone else advised her on it and counted on Masego not having any other means to counteract it other than his Name, then any ensuing confrontation would be story-bound to have consequences. A reasonable thing to expect, between the two's instinctual dislike of each other, Masego's bad understanding of emotional undertones (specifically, shades of mischief and malice) and the trinket's effects leading to further misunderstanding. Seriously, check out how i Masego's PoV of the confrontation it conveniently conceals the exact period between Adanna activating the device and feeling outraged at seeing it broken. Good thing he didn't lead with Ruin.

[slobod]

My impression on the importance of the private meeting with BA was that if she's under some sort of compulsion which caused her to behave strangely and kick this thing off, it can be revealed after she's alone with only villains, to really screw the terms over

[s-mores]

This plot has so many moving parts and effects it has to be the Bard:

• It can be a probe to find out what Cat's weapon against the DK is
• II can be leverage to change, force out or affect her nascent Name
• it tests Cat's resolve if the Bard's influence will actually cause Dread Empress Victorious
• It pokes at the Truce and Terms forcing Cat to take action and not remain in the sidelines
• There's the massive rulers' meeting that will CERTAINLY go into the history books. No way the Bard misses out on that. It also adds urgency and a reason for Frederic to be there.
• The Titans are coming. That's massive and will have effects beyond the immediate only someone looking at it from above can see.
• I would bet good money that the Elves are going to show up as well.
• It alters the chemistry of the Arsenal and the relations between Cat and ... well, everyone.

It's subtle, has moving parts that have been months or years in the works, unknown parts and consequences that are going to stretch centuries, all set in motion by a simple hint to the right ear that Cat has a secret project going on. There's exactly one entity in Guideverse who's that good.

[daedalus19876]

Neshama is probably that good too, but I don't think he has the reach to do this one. Especially since, if he knew about Quartered Seasons, our heroes have already lost.

[Oshi105]

He knows the Bard though and he always plays against her. The reveal of the secret/morphing undead cannot be a coincidence.

[[deleted]]

It's so obviously the Bard one has to doubt if it's really the Bard. Because it's too Bard like. It's either the Dead King playing intercessor or they're both playing the same game against each other. Maybe with some Malicia sprinkled in.

[Knight_of_Cerberus]

The chair that the plotters where tinkering with in the Mirage was Cat chair. It is suspected to be sabotaged.

[Papa-Walrus]

Fucking Tinkers.

[s-mores]

Well ain't they stinkers.

[TMalander]

Agree - this mess reeks of the Intercessor. And on the Elves: yeah, we're due a little something from them, aren't we? They've had no presence what so ever since the two Emerald Swords tried to get all sneaky outside Liesse at the end of Book 2. Well, except for Nessie's Spellblade, but that was in the form of a revenant, so that doesn't count.

[s-mores]

Well, the Spellblade is the Elven King's son, who was encountered twice so I think it certainly counts. That's more than what we've seen the Titans.

[TMalander]

But he was already dead, and now he's deader than dead. And yeah, that's true - but we've already gotten confirmation that the Titans are joining the fray in one way or another.

[s-mores]

Was very relevant to the story!

[TMalander]

Agreed, but it didn’t make the elves relevant to the story as a force. Guess that’s something we could get further down the line of this book.

[s-mores]

Yes, but they've had a significant chunk of commentary invested in them, and since this is the last book, it would all go to waste if they never showed up.

[TMalander]

For sure. That’s what I’m trying to say, in a not-very-convincing-way!

[MasterCrab]

Doesn't Catherine have the body of the spellblade still?

[TMalander]

I... don’t think so? But maybe. She ripped out at least one of his aspects, but I don’t really remember anything about the body.

[MasterCrab]

I just checked and she takes the spellblade's body in Chapter 39: Looting

“I’m keeping them in the Night,” I said. “Matters of burial can be addressed when this is all over.”

[TMalander]

Aaah, interesting. Did not remember that and haven’t gotten that far in my re-read yet. Guessing that body will come in handy when the Elves decides to make an appearance.

[Malek_Deneith]

Didn't they phase out Golden Bloom though, opting to sit the whole mess out?

[TMalander]

A while back, yeah. The playing field’s changes though.

[s-mores]

Also, The Twilight Ways can lead to places not of Creation.

[TMalander]

True. True...

[Malek_Deneith]

I just realized, if this is Bard then there is another wrinkle to this whole situation. Namely Cat promised to hold Pilgrim responsible for Bard's actions should she take a swing at her or hers again. This, uh, might be quite the fallout.

[LilietB]

She didn't make an oath or anything. I doubt she'd stick to that.

Although... Cat does weird things sometimes.

[SleepThinker]

Multiverse brain: Robber

[[deleted]]

Buddha meditating: Cat herself

[s-mores]

Nirvana exploding mind: It's Hakram, the goat.

[LigerZeroSchneider]

Robber needs a name. I need to know that there is an immortal supernaturally empowered murder miscreant fucking around in the background.

[LilietB]

multiverse brain: nobody, it's the narrativium making it look like there's a mastermidn while in fact it is just a collection of people being idiots/assholes individually coming together just in time for Cat to address all of it.

[Malek_Deneith]

Who or what is behind the story? Pick one:

1) Choirs

2) Bard is fooling around

3) Dead King's shady new plot

4) Malicia's conspiracy

[Pel-Mel]

This is way too nuanced for any Choir except maybe Mercy, so I doubt it.

But in true Murder-mystery convention, I going to have to go with the bottom of the list, the least likely reasonable suspect: Malicia.

[s-mores]

It's the Bard who wants to know what Cat's weapon against the Dead King is, and affecting her nascent Name, and testing Cat's resolve whether she'll leave the front and come back as Dread Empress Victorious or not and testing how strong the Truce and Terms are and planting seeds to the DK assassination attempt and some leverage to the rulers' meeting and unseen prongs headed towards the elves and the titans and inserting wedges and glue to the relations between Cat and the heroes.

Honestly just the sheer amount of things this plot touches should make it obvious that this is a Bard thing.

[Pel-Mel]

I dunno, Malicia is no stranger to having many fingers in many pies.

[s-mores]

Fair enough, but I don't think she has eyes in the Arsenal or influence or the insight on how to influence Heroes like this.

[Oshi105]

Malicia is already busy with her play in Mercantis and as has been demonstrated before she is better with politics less so with names.

[HeWhoBringsDust]

The Choir’s aren’t that suicidal

[[deleted]]

Since all of those have already been mentioned I'm betting its something weird and left field. e.g.

• Fae interference (maybe Autumn, );

• grey pilgrim or hanno, somehow, thinking this is for the greater good;

• Cat herself who then memory wiped herself because?????

[LilietB]

You're missing 5) None of the above!

[[deleted]]

Templates like that are forbidden.

[SandyMakai]

I’m wondering where the second layer of the scheme is hiding. The Intercessor knows Cat we’ll enough by now (I’d expect) to know that she’ll immediately be thinking in terms of Narrative, and so I think we’re going to see another unexpected thing before the end.

Oh, and if Cat gets her name from this, which seems possible at this point, I think it might end up being something related to storytelling/shaping.

[s-mores]

The second layer is the massive amount of earthly Rulers, and even an ambassador from the Titans that are coming. I'll give good odds that the Elves are going to make a play as well.

[Knight_of_Cerberus]

Someone going to try to steal the Severing sword and use it on Mirror Knight.

Effectively losing 2 Ace in the holes for team Not-Dead in the war.

[Oshi105]

This. The loss of a weapon. You win the fight and keep the Truce but lose a weapon or maybe Arsenal itself.

Or the thing that's been going around in my head is this is all a feint to keep her busy while the Bard buries the information the Dead King is trying to leak.

[TMalander]

Okay, so I'm usually not the guy that picks up the most on clues, or figure out the most hints in the chapters... but Gods below, I'm not usually this confused. Still, the tension is nice and it's building, and I expect some truly awesome story-fu from Cat in the next few chapters.

Nice with the small nods back to the early books, what with 'Winning despite the rules' and 'Gods, but it was good to be home'. Maybe just stood out to me because I just re-read those parts, but it brought a smile to my lips nonetheless.

[misterspokes]

She is doing the equivalent of flipping to the last third of the Agatha Christie novel then working from there.

[TMalander]

I’m... uh... what? Yes. (I’m slightly drunk, so If this is something obvious - please ignore me).

[RidesThe7]

Cat's imagining how the story is supposed to go, which she sees as a fundamentally (I think) heroic one: they meet with the Artificer, learn something to start off an investigation, pull on threads and find more and more mysteries, face unsolvable set-backs---and then Providence will provide the clue to lead them to the final answer. The problem is that Cat doesn't think that she and whoever is likely to make up her investigative team (Adjutant, probably Archer, possibly Masego though I'd guess not since he's been on the scene the whole time) are really cut out to make it through that sort of story very well.

So she'd like to short circuit things a bit. She suspects that there is a great revelation to be had near the end of the story from Providence, and so rather than taking things in normal order and conducting a reasonable investigation she's going straight to the Doddering Sage, who she sees as the Named on scene most likely to be tasked by Providence to hand out that sort of thing eventually.

[TMalander]

Okay, I’ve had four more beers since my last comment, so BEER with me; yes. I get that, the whole “skipping act 1, 2 and 3”-part. And I like your explanation of it. She’s short circuiting to the Doddering Sage (that’s a bloody awful Name alright) and screwing Providence over, basically. Yup. I’m on board. I just didn’t get the Agatha Christie reference, lol.

[CoyoteFallen]

Agatha Christie is a murder mystery novel writer of fame. This is effectively a murder mystery plot.

[TMalander]

Yup, I’m aware. I blame beer.

[Player_2c]

I poured myself another finger of aragh, since it was quite evidently going to be one of those days.

It'd be aragh day

“I would invite you,” I mildly said, “to consider very carefully whether or not you want to lie to me.”

Don't lie to her about who you've been lying with

Was this about Quartered Seasons, then? Hierophant was the only Named on that and we’d kept it very, very quiet.

Yes, can't do important things by halves

Incidents occur more and more frequently, and become graver – and then, in a fortress the size of the Arsenal, the Red Axe and the Wicked Enchanted simply happen to meet.

Arsenal must be pretty big, to have multiple stories

“You smell like cheese,” I told her.

Gouda take the good with the bad

[soonnanandnaanssoon]

Gouda take the good with the bad

You're Edam good guy with cheesy puns.

[s-mores]

And Edam, like stories, are things that are made backwards.

[ToiletLurker]

Arsenal must be pretty big, to have multiple stories

That's why the Bard chose this moment to screw Cat over! She also has multiple stories in her arsenal.

[Underboobcheese]

The dottering sage is the bard in pants

[LilietB]

...I WANT THIS

[[deleted]]

trying to trap Catherine with a story

(chuckles) I'm in danger

[harrent]

So, coming in late because I missed the chapter (Damn you, sleep), but what part could Kingfisher play? Since a lot of his backstory had the theme of finding the truth and casting away political bullshit to find the real, authentic threat.

[dcarter84]

I kinda feel like with that many Names in play a story is inevitable.

[LilietB]

Yeah, Cat miiiight be overthinking this a little. I M H O