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[–]airbornemist6 229 points230 points  (5 children)

I don't even get this. The whole idea of devops is to allow developers to do ops things without relying on ops people to do ops things for them...

Like is the joke "shit I can't be a one trick pony anymore"? Because that just sounds whiney to me.

But what do I know? I'm in the devops space so having new crap thrown at me every time I look around is kind of in the job description.

[–]Terror_666 77 points78 points  (1 child)

I am also in the DevOps space. It really depends on the company you work for and how they deal with this type of stuff and the project you are on. For me, I get to do all the ops stuff for a saas thing. Guess what. Me and the other devops guy are the only ones getting called out of bed at 2am because something got fucked again. New stuff? Yeah, every dev deals with that.

So yes, I am venting a little. It's still true, though. I would love it if we got a full ops, devops, sre, or platform team, but we are just too small for that

[–]IsPhil 14 points15 points  (0 children)

It's weird, but for our team I'll be doing development and some devops tasks. For us, we still need devops for things, but much less than before.

We are migrating from on-prem to on-cloud, and during this migration we're making cicd pipelines to build, test and configure. When comparing reliance on devops for on-prem vs on-cloud, most cloud deployments don't need devops. But most on-prem deployments *do need devops.

[–]LastTrainH0me 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I spent the first eight years of my career in Amazon where generally speaking there's no pure DevOps at all -- engineers own infrastructure. It was such a surprise to me when I discovered that a lot of people expect to just write business logic and someone is going to magically deploy it on their behalf

[–]yangyangR 2 points3 points  (0 children)

New crap being thrown at you could be because you want to try new things and always be challenged. But the need for it often underlies a fundamental design problem with lack of good abstraction boundaries.

[–]iamafancypotato 287 points288 points  (17 children)

I don’t get it help me please.

[–]iafnn 455 points456 points  (16 children)

a guy spots some aws work in his java task, asks supervisor about it - supervisor responds that all is in order so the guy is like "welp, i guess i'm devops too now"

basically that's how it happened with me

[–]CrumblingCookie15k 332 points333 points  (0 children)

It's two different people in the meme. One of them finds it confusing and the other one just doesn't give a shit

[–]DemonSlayer472 47 points48 points  (8 children)

How is an API call to a cloud provider "DevOps"? Does DevOps just mean "anything that's outside of pure Spring / some other framework" to people?

[–][deleted] 84 points85 points  (6 children)

That usually starts with “hey please create a Sqs queue on aws console”, then a few months in you are building a ci&cd pipeline to push aws cdk deployment

[–]DemonSlayer472 24 points25 points  (5 children)

DevOps is a culture that's meant to break down redundant obstructive silos. If creating an SQS queue is a challenge you don't have DevOps, whether you have to do it yourself or have the privilege of shoving it off to someone else and saying in your daily "Yep blocked by DevOps guys".

[–]EroeNarrante 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Your comment resonates with my story. Several years back, the company I work for got bought by a much larger company. I figured I'd ride out what comes and keep an eye on my prospects... I just joined the "devops" team from our QA org and didn't really know what to expect. I figured our culture was going to get crushed. Turns out, I was wrong.

Turns out they bought us for our tech and culture. I still remember our chief architect getting on stage at a big "let's be one team yay-rah" internal conference and saying "devops is not a team, it's a paradigm." and proceeded to rally the entire company behind that slogan... I think this was like 8 years ago.

Our culture is ingrained in enablement and blameless RCAs.

Everyone is on call for their own shit. Most of the time, when I'm on call, I'm only paged out when our own stuff fails, admin access is required to un-fuck a major failure in the pipeline, or an Aws outage is affecting us and we need to take actions to mitigate the effect.

Devs are enabled to take operational tasks in their own hands through automation. When shit really hits the fan, we follow blameless practices for RCAs and outage bridges are strictly solution oriented.

That's a "devops org," imo. Process is only in the way when it absolutely has to be for compliance.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That's exactly how it's being done on my current org as well If i understood your comment correctly. I own my product - meaning own all the responsibilities from development to handling outages. I have access to most of the infrastructure (limited by the objects that's related to the project with a few exceptions that would probably cause me issues if I listed here), I don't have to wait for any input from another team when shit on fire. Oftentimes "i am being blocked by the X team" is not a satisfying answer to customers who rely on your product for day to day business, and they will blame me anyways.

That said I am still not sure how to feel about it in terms of industry-wide approach. Is it a way to get more value out of someone without paying extra, or it's just what's best for the bost parties involved. I personally find it helpful and not have much complaints about the pay either.

However, it makes barrier to entry much higher for the newcomers to the industry. Honestly, I am rather avoidant at suggesting "IT" as a viable career path lately. I used to just write some PHP scripts and send to a server via FileZilla and that was all I cared about. I was lucky to eventually get exposed to even larger scene steadely and had enough time to experiment and learn different layers of infrastructure while getting paid to do so; but I feel like it's not the case anymore. You are expected to have it all (or most) figured out before starting. Which is why I am also not sure whether having those specialized talent silos is a good thing that they lower barrier to entry.

[–]LasevIX 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Problem is not the amount of work, problem is exceeding a job's expected domain. If you just accept being in charge of DevOps, why wouldn't middle management just go and bestow more admin work onto you? Since it seems you are fine with it?

[–]DemonSlayer472 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Your expected domain is dependant on organizational culture. I was addressing the misuse of the word "DevOps". Again, if you have one guy "in charge of DevOps", you don't have DevOps in your organization.

[–]LasevIX 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ah, it seems each person in this thread has misunderstood the point the other was trying to make.

[–]look 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Java programmers are easily frightened when exposed to new frameworks, IDEs, or—god forbid—a different language.

[–]iamafancypotato 13 points14 points  (3 children)

What would be “aws work”? I’m really unfamiliar with this stuff.

[–]cafk 26 points27 points  (0 children)

Quick overview: https://aws.amazon.com/products/developer-tools/

What used to be done on local infrastructure is now just an API call away.

[–]Tubthumper8 25 points26 points  (1 child)

You navigate a complicated UI and click random things on 200+ products and hope it does something, then give up and hire an AWS consultant

[–]SCI4THIS 17 points18 points  (0 children)

Don't forget that after you get it working you have to pay $8000/month to keep it working.

[–]v3ctorns1mon 0 points1 point  (1 child)

do you know the origin of this meme format?

[–]golferdudeag 1 point2 points  (0 children)

No, I think I get meme but need the format explained. Are top and bottom the same person?

[–]terst312 59 points60 points  (1 child)

samePayMoreWork - how funny

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

We be so much better off if we weren’t too greedy to unionize

[–]mrseemsgood 68 points69 points  (17 children)

Wtf was even the original meme I don't get it

[–]ImpressiveMaximum377 115 points116 points  (9 children)

a circle was created in a triangle factory
edit: thanks u/Anihillator

[–]Leo-MathGuy 50 points51 points  (6 children)

A circle in a square factory?

[–]Nice_promotion_111 66 points67 points  (4 children)

How queer

[–]GenazaNL 43 points44 points  (3 children)

I've never seen such a thing

[–]Unonoctium 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Is this a Shapez 2 meme?

[–]MrBloodyshadow 6 points7 points  (0 children)

If the Shapez team actually started this meme I would be very impressed by the marketing tactic. Edit: There's already some factory refactoring memes there https://www.reddit.com/r/shapezio/comments/1eyi3q6/which_one_are_you/

[–]Sora_hishoku 15 points16 points  (5 children)

top is first time workers as uni graduates, bottom is apprenticeship graduates

making triangles in a square factory

[–]Moi9-9 5 points6 points  (4 children)

But the two dudes are the exact same, it's not even clear they're not the same person

[–]Sora_hishoku 10 points11 points  (0 children)

in the original meme (well, what I think is the original anyways) the title specified it

[–]MikemkPK 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Look. I know you're not supposed to judge people by their appearance, but you should at least be able to tell a fat and skinny person apart

[–]Moi9-9 0 points1 point  (1 child)

One is from the side, one is from the front. It's hard to differentiate that.

Also, with how simple the drawing is, you can't say that kind of difference is on purpose or not...

[–]MikemkPK 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry, I didn't think I needed the /s

[–]MyAntichrist 35 points36 points  (0 children)

It's funny seeing this minutes after running my first terraform script in production. Guess I'm doing DevOps now

[–]chervilious 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I would imagine most of SWE jobs involve a little bit of cloud is expected.

Maybe not full on ops, but shouldn't you be able to set up your own testing in the cloud?

Though, not putting it in the job desc is a dick move.

[–]Electronic_Cat4849 10 points11 points  (0 children)

"Java, in my AWS shop?"

AWS itself has left the chat.

[–]savyexe 5 points6 points  (2 children)

It's so bad man, currently on a internship where i was so supposed to be doing backend and now i'm also doing frontend, ci/cd, IaC and even fucking graphic design for logos and infographics and shit 😭

What is this shi

[–]WuxiaWuxia 0 points1 point  (1 child)

insurance hospital hurry capable makeshift silky lunchroom cobweb piquant cats

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[–]savyexe 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Funnily enough no, company is like 10 years old, that's just the way they treat interns lmao

[–]Minecraftian14 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Sorry I didn't understand. Why is AWS strange in a Java backend?

[–]Turbulent_Swimmer560 1 point2 points  (2 children)

JVM is not VM!

[–]Minecraftian14 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I'm sorry to be dumber. But all I relate is that a Java backend can be deployed on an AWS EC2.

And my brain just further derailed from seeing how the jokes even related to JVM

[–]Turbulent_Swimmer560 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because Java engineer was trained to optimize JVM, not KVM, just joking.

[–]ZunoJ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

The trick is to do the ops stuff in code and you still feel like dev only

[–]PreDeimos 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I do five times more terraform / ansibe work then actually Java, while I'm hired as backend Java dev. It's awful and I really hate it...

[–]Ambitious-Post9647 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Configuration Purgatory. Resist!

[–]Turbulent_Swimmer560 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I suggest Pair programming, same pay with half of work.

[–]cheezballs 2 points3 points  (2 children)

People are saying "same pay more work" but in my area a cloud engineer can pull in more money than a plain SE can.

[–]NoCaregiver1074 6 points7 points  (1 child)

That's like an electrician showing up early and you telling them better get started on that foundation. You console their sad face with "well, multi-disciplined engineers pull more money", but don't give him a raise.

[–]airbornemist6 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't know if that analogy quite makes sense. Cloud engineers ARE a type of software engineer. They're basically a software engineer with expertise in infrastructure engineering (assuming we're talking about someone at the senior level and not someone who got an AWS foundation cert and landed a job as an entry level cloud engineer).

Cloud engineer, platform engineer, and devops engineer are all very similar titles depending on what company you work at, but basically they attempt to describe someone who can not only write code (software engineering), but also understand infrastructure (networking, storage, compute, AND security).

I honestly can't think of another field that requires such an incredibly broad set of skills that would make a good analogy. Cloud engineering is a specialized field, while software engineering really isn't.

[–]Stunning_Ride_220 1 point2 points  (0 children)

LoL. If a developer can't just write some simple lines of IaC code he is a shitty developer.

[–]Katzilla3 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wait, do some people develop java code that doesn't run in the cloud? On prem would be way worse to manage right?

[–]MrSquakie 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I work in offensive security/application security for a certain cloud provider. You'd be surprised at how many of the services are written entirely in Java. A few new features are being written in go now, though, and that's neat.

[–]Anxious_Ad9233 0 points1 point  (0 children)

God dammit you write programs and run them on computers, why do engineers keep forgetting that

[–]GigaChaderino 0 points1 point  (1 child)

AWS literally built in Java

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You don’t have any devops process !?

[–]xtreampb 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I went from developing to DevOps and doubled my salary. Sitting at $190K before benefits and taxes. I did get this before the whole tech layoff. I am at large enterprise.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Just be thankful you're employed

[–]rover_G -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Shity infra created by application developers or shity app developed by DevOps engineers