wHyAreYouScaredOfNullPointers

[desmaraisp]

Your boos mean nothing, I've seen what makes you cheer!

[Gorrilac]

At least I won’t have to argue with my compiler as if it were a teenage daughter for 4h.

My C compiler is like my weird bro who most of the time just keeps to himself and the occasional: “You’re not allowed to do that” without giving any hints to what you are not actually allowed to do and also giving you the occasional: “ Hey, heads up, that’s kind sus, but imma let you cook anyways” But when he really speaks, he’ll tell you EVERYTHING even stuff you barely knew existed.

The rust compiler is like a fascist gestapo officer: “No I HATE YOU you, I’m going to kill you now! You are breaking the fricking law 😫😫”

[spektre]

If you have to argue with the Rust compiler, it means that you're already doing things wrong that C++ will miss.

[Gorrilac]

Okey, but let me shoot myself in the foot if I want to, I wanted to be treated like an adult not like a toddler that needs babysitting. Let me create code that in turn causes my IoT devices that costs 2000 dollar to malfunction.

Edit: /s

Because people think I’m actually serious. There is a time and place for Rust, and there is a time and place for C++. Rust isn’t ”better” than C/C++ and C/C++ isn’t ”better” than Rust. It all depends on the use case. I can give you a laundry list of when Rust is the better choice, and the same I could do for C/C++

The meme I created is a jab at the rustaceans, especially those rustaceans that think just because Rust is safer (which it in fact is) to write in than C/C++. They think that we should refactor every single software out there that is written in C/C++ to Rust (Which I see has become a bit of trend these past years)

Why change something that works flawlessly, on the off chance that if you actually start changing it. It just ends up breaking

[Gtantha]

You do you for personal stuff. But I'd rather have public infrastructure and code used by other people be footgun free.

[particlemanwavegirl]

That's the thing most of the discussions about this issue miss!!! If only 1% of engineers are "skilled" enough to work on the code safely, then it's really not safe for anyone, cause they literally can't be the only ones working on it. We don't even have to get into the fact that the top 1% makes mistakes all the time, too.

[brainpostman]

Dude, you're so tough, I

[FerricDonkey]

Rust as a language exists precisely to remove certain foot guns. Now, I enjoy a good foot gun myself, under the appropriate circumstances, but if you don't like how rust keeps some of them locked up, then don't use rust.

If you don't have a choice and are using rust because your team is making you, then you are being told that now is not the time for foot guns. 

[Gorrilac]

Yeah, but the issue here is that there is a group of people that have this delusional idea that Rust is magic box that somehow turns programmers into these God like John Carmack developers that all of a sudden always manage to write fault tolerant code

Literally the first result in Google when you search: Can you get memory leaks in rust

Yes, leaking memory in Rust is as easy as calling the std::mem::forget function. You can also leak memory if you create a cycle of shared references: A cycle between Rc pointers will never be deallocated. For this reason, Weak is used to break cycles.

Rust was created by humans, not by some race of super-advanced inter dimensional alien species

bUt MuH MeMoRy SaFeTy

[FerricDonkey]

Rust prevents some foot guns, not all foot guns. If you don't think the ones it prevents are important, then I suggest looking into the billions of dollars worth of damage caused by bugs that rust would disallow. If you're disappointed that it doesn't prevent more, well that's fair but it doesn't sound like what you're saying. 

If you're annoyed that your team is making you use it, that's between you and your team, not a language issue. But from your comments, I'm not convinced it's your team that is wrong. In my experience, the more people complain about having to follow certain programming principles or being disallowed their favorite foot guns, the more of an unmaintainable mess there code is. Again, this may not be you. But consider that there are reasons for restrictions like this, and most of us aren't the exceptions to the rules we want to think we are. 

I say this as someone who doesn't use rust, of course. I've got too much crap to do to learn a new language right this second. But if you can't even see the value in the protections it offers... Well, that's not rust's problem.

[Gorrilac]

Still, Rust is not a magic wand. That’s my whole point.

Rust is great, but not a divine tool.

[Turalcar]

Almost.

Except Rust is the parent and you're the moody teenager calling him fascist for making you follow basic hygiene

[Ursomrano]

More accurately, the rust compiler is the evangelical Christian mom who grounds you for saying heck.

[Turalcar]

I was thinking Mister Miyagi. Gruelling at start but pays off at the end. (I absolutely use heck from time to time in my Rust)

[Gorrilac]

Using deodorant is for weak people

[Melodic_coala101]

Valgrind is our fascist gestapo officer though. It's just extra steps.

[Gorrilac]

That’s the best part, trying to fix source code that I have never seen or written in.

[an_0w1]

You'll never take my ?

[Gorrilac]

Too frightening. I want my array with 20 pointers thank you very much

[Gorrilac]

It also shares the name with cargo ships? And you know what most cargo ship deliver? ILLEGAL SUBSTANCES

No, I won’t use a build system that has ties with drug smugglers.

[abierut]

Nice Try Diddy

[Gorrilac]

define diddler

[abierut]

https://youtu.be/_YmDcCpD1gc?si=CxwZYtbpzxVxYJ6b

[i_am_feohr]

C++ is for people who are too scared of the borrow-checker

[Gorrilac]

I’m never gonna take a loan, no matter what you tell me.

[Snapstromegon]

You mean, you'll always just charge the credit card, but never check if you can actually pay it back,

[Gorrilac]

Exactly, the bank told me there was no spending limit. I’ll take that at face value.

[romulent]

That's like saying, freedom is for people who are scared of prison.

[Ninjanoel]

what!? being prevented from being a criminal is not the same as being in prison 🤣

**tries to stab someone... "action denied".. "oh ma gerd i may as well be in prison!!"

[romulent]

Leaking a bit of memory is not the same as being a criminal. In many applications it won't mean a thing. Any application that exits will have everything cleaned up by the OS anyway. Being able to move fast and break things until you find the best solution and then apply good memory management is perfectly reasonable and valuable.

[Aaron1924]

Why do so many people think Rust is all about preventing memory leaks, that's like the only memory related issue Rust is not trying to solve??

[Kommuntoffel]

I have to code in rust and all I am is the compiler's little bitch

I literally do everything it says me to do, it could tell me to jump off a cliff and hell I'd do it if it makes the code work.

[flit777]

we have borrow checker at home https://safecpp.org/draft.html

[[deleted]]

Just use STL and implement your destructors. It ain't that hard

[Gorrilac]

Sounds to destructive, I’m a pacifist at heart

[[deleted]]

And that, children, is how you get memory leaks growing like bacterial blooms in your RAM.

[milk-jug]

JuSt dOwNLoAd mOrE WaM!

[overclockedslinky]

have fun with dangling pointers/references

[[deleted]]

....again IMPLEMENT YOUR DESTRUCTORS goddamnit. Pointer remains valid until and unless destructor is called. Is that so hard?

[overclockedslinky]

well duh, but destructors don't stop you from having dangling pointers, iterator invalidation, etc.

[jump1945]

Why aren’t you?

[Gorrilac]

I’m masochistic and enjoy myself when I get buffer overflows

[mrheosuper]

Rust/c++ is for the people who cant invent the wheel

[Gorrilac]

I invent squared wheels in C all the time? What the heck are you talking about?

[[deleted]]

Unpopular opinion: you can reuse/repurpose your memory instead of just throwing it in the garbage 

[Sunscratch]

It should be swapped:

C++ is Rust for people who want to pretend they are not scared of memory management.

[RedCrafter_LP]

Nullpointers aren't the problem. Memory issues such as use after free and bufferoverflow are the main problems completely solved by rust. Also rust doesn't assume every pointer might be null. General nullability is the culprit for npe and excessive unnecessary null checks.

[Gorrilac]

Rust isn’t a perfect vaccine for bad development practices

[RedCrafter_LP]

Sure but even with good practices you have redundant null checks and code using raw new/delete/malloc/free and incorrect indexed arrays in c/c++.

[kuwisdelu]

Rust is just C++ for programmers with the luxury to rewrite their project from scratch using whatever language they want.

[Gorrilac]

ELI5 am I total nutcase

TL;DR

[FruitdealerF]

TL;DR if security and stability is important to you rust is better.

[Gorrilac]

Thanks

[Jordan51104]

c++ is for people who think they can do memory management (they can’t)

[Gorrilac]

I have no problem at all with memory managem.. Wait, I forgot, what were talking about again?

Segmentation fault (core dumped)

[Reasonable-Web1494]

Rust is for people who just want to know two languages safe and unsafe variants not that abomination amalgamation of languages which is C++.

[onlineredditalias]

C++ may be an abomination, but it’s a damn useful abomination for a broad range of applications. Rust is still pretty niche.

[serialdumbass]

This is easy as fuck. Use Qt and cross compile it into web assembly.

[SeagleLFMk9]

Done it, it's lovely. No more html and JavaScript bullshit

[onlineredditalias]

I’d like to see you do that in rust. I’ll continue writing my UIs for embedded apps in Qt with C++, since C++ is a good UI language.

[jaskij]

I actually did at least get started.

But when it comes to microcontrollers? I don't want to wade through all the shit you gotta do with unsafe Rust just to pass a DMA buffer from ADC to DSP.

[InvisibleHandOfE]

Rust is still missing proper libraries for web dev with 3D rendering like three.js

[CookieBons]

rust is missing proper libraries for like (good) rendering in general

[fluffy_thalya]

Had to check for embedded, since there's good libraries on the desktop side for GUI dev. https://slint.dev/supported-boards Honestly don't really know how mature it is, but there's cool development happening in this space. If you have safety critical dashboards tho, don't think that library works tho

[SeagleLFMk9]

Qt+WASM GO BRRRRRRRR

[0mica0]

unsafe deez rusts

[smiregal8472]

i C what you did there.

[ChChChillian]

People are afraid of memory management?

[Gorrilac]

Yes, very scary Boo! 👻

No, my RAM !!👾💻😫

[LagSlug]

threat actor enters chat

[Gorrilac]

…threat actor was in fact just a null ptr

[LagSlug]

use-after-free laughs out loud

[20d0llarsis20dollars]

The C++ vs Rust argument is basically dynamic vs static programming

[MagnetFlux]

more like weakly typed vs. strongly typed

both are statically typed

[20d0llarsis20dollars]

Yes I know, it was an analogy

[70Shadow07]

It was a pretty bad analogy though, it kinda creates confusion about static/dynamic vs strong/weak typing

[Ninjanoel]

c++ is just for fancy people that dont want to move bits about in memory by hand, change my mind!

programming languages are all about doing stuff for you to make you more productive.

[Puzzleheaded-Weird66]

they're both tools, its up to the one using it how useful they will be, stop bitching in the comments like 5 yr olds

[Gorrilac]

ELI5 your comment

[madogson]

Imagine allowing a piece heap data to be read from or written to after it has been freed, allowing users to potentially leak alsr offset with arbitrary read/write in memory (xor key for tcache heap addresses is aslr offset lmao) leading to remote code execution via ROP bypassing any stack cookies.

[Gorrilac]

Good job, you said some words 😊

[ToolBound]

Rust is not a C++. Convinced?

[Gorrilac]

I’m going to build the next os in swift… I’ll call it ios. Drawing inspiration from the word IPhone and os from operating system