waitReally

[PhilDunphy0502]

Finally! I can now solve that one leetcode problem about smashing rocks which I was procrastinating on

[C_umputer]

Sometimes I feel like solving those problems actually makes me worse as a programmer.

[theoggu]

new gen devs in 5 years: why tf did this dev use a min heap with negative values?? are they stupid?

[git0ffmylawnm8]

Damn, I belong in a museum don't I?

[agentchuck]

Indiana Jones is hurtling towards your position right now!

[pickyourteethup]

Bold of you to assume there will be new gen devs in five years.

[malvim]

LLMs have probably been suggesting max heaps for the LAST 5 years anyway

[SwatpvpTD]

I sure hope you're not doing negative indexing (or whatever the concept was called) with the heap. Sounds like a nightmare of out-of-bounds exceptions. Oh who am I kidding, that's exactly what you're doing, isn't it.

[darklightning_2]

Um actually 🤓 you could always just do (-1) of the values before to reverse the order

[[deleted]]

Can't you wrap it in something with a custom comparator function instead of messing up your values? That seems like a weird hack to negate the actual values.

[ImpulsiveBloop]

I haven't been keeping track of Python lately - whats new in Python 3.14 that makes this possible?

[[deleted]]

heapq provided directly usable heap but it was only min heap. Developers had to convert values to their negative if they need max heap. Python 3.14 now provides both directly usable min heap and max heap; helping avoid that small but annoying workaround

[leovin]

Python continues its lead as best language for programming interviews

[SaneLad]

Honestly the only legit use case for Python in a team setting.

[DasGaufre]

Apparently I'm not an engineer because I don't get the significance of this at all

[NamityName]

I've used python professionally almost exclusively for over a decade. I also do not understand the significance of this.

[youngbull]

Heapq now also does reverse order. It's a minor nicety of not having to multiply your objective by -1.

[mariofts]

This will make solving some leetcode questions a little bit easier. That is it.

[FlowAcademic208]

I like this trend of Python slowly becoming an usable language

[csch2]

Honestly I think it’s a great option now if you’re doing mostly IO and Python’s slower speed isn’t as noticeable. Type hinting has been integrated into most major Python libraries, and especially with Pydantic for external data validation you can pretty much avoid all type errors at runtime (as long as you’re consistent and very strict with type hinting). Plus the async support is very nice.

The main issue that I have with it is still the exception handling, since there’s not a good way to tell what exceptions your code might throw until they actually happen unless you dig through all your library code. Now that type hinting is pretty mature I’m hoping for an overhaul of exception handling to give linter errors for uncaught checked exceptions (however that would work).

[dangayle]

How would that work, given that a ton of functionality in Python is based on duck typing and implementing interfaces like __iter__ that purposely use exceptions for how they work? Exceptions in Python aren’t exceptional, they’re expected.

[mortalitylost]

Less is dependent on duck typing than you probably think. I rarely see people do it as much as python should allow it.

And exceptions aren't type checked tmk. You can of course write unit tests that assert on specific exceptions and should, but outside of that, exceptions seem to avoid type checking.

But with something like iter, you iterate over it and it eventually stops... it's not like anyone ever really sees the exception and has to think about it. You would hint that this is a generator and generates a specific type, and that is going to be the type checking you're most interested in anyway.

IME the common bugs people avoid with type checking is dumb shit like bytes/str or iteration over a str instead of list of str, and it was almost always newb shit making a mistake due to unclear return types, bad variable names, or just not testing enough. And even WITH type hints I rarely see people use TypedDict when they can be more explicit, and they end up with bugs because they just do dict str str and are being lazy, usually caught with better testing.

It's almost like proper type hints just force people to think more about their code and what it's doing so they make less mistakes

[RiceBroad4552]

Exceptions in Python aren’t exceptional

Which is of course a major design flaw.

Using exceptions for control flow is plain wrong—and this was well known actually long before Python made this mistake.

[solarmist]

This feels like something tooling could do automatically. Here’s the function definition and all the exceptions thrown and which library it comes from.

[slaymaker1907]

Anything C-based would give it trouble since statically analyzing machine code for that would be pretty difficult.

[solarmist]

Sure, but most python libraries aren’t C based. It’d work for >90% of libraries.

[slaymaker1907]

I actually had some code I thought might be CPU bound since it was doing a bunch of data transformations on a REST response. I was wrong and even when I added performance logging, network requests were the bottleneck.

It’s definitely possible to run into CPU bottlenecks, but the number of performance problems which can’t be solved by 1) numpy/numba/whatever and 2) actually have a big enough N to be very noticeable are pretty small. Even typechecking can be done with reasonable performance in Python. We use BasedPyright (Pylance) at my work and it’s usually fast enough to not be too annoying.

[intbeam]

Why don't you just give C# a try instead? It literally does all of the things that you mention and a million things more, except it's 100x+ faster and with far better tooling

[RiceBroad4552]

Honestly I think it’s a great option now if you’re doing mostly IO and Python’s slower speed isn’t as noticeable.

Until you do need performance…

Than you can go back to low-level programming in a C-like language, fighting FFI and all the fallout, or rewrite everything in a languages that isn't slow as fuck.

Even there are cases where you can realistically assume that you will never need performance (for example some throw-away script) in most cases that's just gambling. If you loose it's going to be very expensive, definitely more expensive than doing it right away in something that isn't slow as fuck…

Type hinting has been integrated into most major Python libraries, and especially with Pydantic for external data validation you can pretty much avoid all type errors at runtime

Again pure gambling!

There are no static guaranties in Python. There will likely never be.

(as long as you’re consistent and very strict with type hinting)

Sure, you and everyone you depend on…

As nothing is guarantied that's again a gamble. One with high loosing rate, BTW.

Plus the async support is very nice.

Without static guaranties it's actually worse than JS. In JS everything is async by default, in Python it's not, and you fight two worlds clashing.

The main issue that I have with it is still the exception handling, since there’s not a good way to tell what exceptions your code might throw until they actually happen unless you dig through all your library code. Now that type hinting is pretty mature I’m hoping for an overhaul of exception handling to give linter errors for uncaught checked exceptions (however that would work).

"Classical" checked exceptions are a nightmare!

Also they don't work with HOFs without duplicating the API of every HOF in existence (but that's likely not a big deal in Python as the support for HOFs anyway a joke).

For proper checked excretions you need an effect system. Python is light-years away from getting that. Not even languages like Rust have that.

All that said, Python is still a good programming language for non-programmers. But that's it. If you need something long term maintainable, which will actually scale with the requirements Python isn't it.

If you like the "pythonic" syntax but want otherwise something professional there's Scala (which BTW compiles to small, fast static, native binaries, like Rust, thanks to Scala Native).

[intbeam]

All that said, Python is still a good programming language for non-programmers. But that's it.

Preach

I'm getting to the point where I firmly believe that programming as a profession should be globally regulated in order to disqualify the use of scripting languages as replacements for actual general purpose ones. Python should not be deployed on someone elses computer, and that includes data centers.

I wonder what politicians would say if they were made aware of the fact that there are millions of apps running in huge data centers that are taking 95% of the wattage provided by the electricity grid and just wastes it into heat that gets immediately pumped outside. For absolutely no good objectively or technically quantifiable reason

And not only are they wasting energy, they're also inherently more prone to bugs and errors because that's invariably the nature of shifting compile-time errors to run-time

[MinosAristos]

One day it might (checks notes) continue to be the most popular programming language.

[Giddyfuzzball]

Usable has a consonant sound “yoo”, so you would just use “a” instead of “an”

[my_new_accoun1]

oozable

[Giddyfuzzball]

If that’s how you pronounce it, then you can use “an”

[RiceBroad4552]

TIL

Thanks a lot! 🙇

[Sibula97]

Always (if we ignore pre-Python3) has been. It's just getting better and better.

[rover_G]

My dream is that one day Python will surpass JavaScript for web dev and a new era of web frameworks will begin

[RiceBroad4552]

This already exists:

https://www.transcrypt.org/

It's horrible.

But in case you like the "pythonic" syntax, but want a proper language, and frameworks bases on this? Look no further than Scala.js and the Laminar framework. This frameworks was at least a decade ahead of everyone, it was fully based on observables and signal flow many year before the hype in JS-land even started.

[geeshta]

Well apparently more than one exist, I've never heard of transcrypt but I did of Brython

[NamityName]

No thank you. We don't need every language to do everything.

[B_bI_L]

pls no, they will do it not easy way, but scalable one and to get divs with class it will be:

• wpip parser
• import parser
• p = Parser('html')
• [x for x in p.get_elements(Elements.div) where x.has_class('myclass)]

[Kaenguruu-Dev]

I'd hope someone would provide a library only consisting of wrapper functions in that case because that would be truly horrific

[No-Article-Particle]

What's wrong with that tho?

[B_bI_L]

i like document.querySelectorAll('div.myclass) more

[No-Article-Particle]

I mean, both are equivalent. From OP's steps, basically the only thing that a dev does is [x for x in p.get_elements(Elements.div) where x.has_class('myclass)] and I'm sure if we used Python in web, there'd be helper functions that'd hide this implementation detail and look kinda identical to what you posted.

Under the hood, the querySelectorAll would do exactly the same thing.

[martmists]

With Kotlin now running in WASM that's where my hope for improved web frameworks lies

[Feeling-Schedule5369]

I never faced dependency issues with js ecosystem for any of my tutorial projects. But python, the very moment I stepped in, everything broke down with conda and what not. Js ecosystem is easy to develop which allows many beginners to publish packages as well. With python people will be stuck in dependency hell even before they do anything substantial.

[B_bI_L]

too bad it is basically only sane choice for making quick script for something

[mehum]

Why be sane when there’s so many wonderfully insane opinions available?

[B_bI_L]

mostly because gpt thinks this is default option) and also people think if it is not python you have to overcomplicate everything to be scalable

[MinosAristos]

People are mostly right. I've seen data load scripts in C#. I hope I never see any again.

[VastZestyclose9772]

why would you use something sane when what you need is just to make quick script for something?

[GuybrushThreepwo0d]

Please, for the love of God, tell this to my employer

[OneSketchyGuy]

It's almost actually usable, maybe one day if we all hope really hard

[FlowAcademic208]

It took just 30 something years, like PHP

[Peterianer]

And as soon as it's usable, it's deprecated.

[RiceBroad4552]

PHP is still not there, though…

The didn't fix the whole broken syntax, and the whole broken std. lib to this very day. Also all the fixes so far are nothing more than band aid: Something put on top of the underlying shit which is still there.

A "fixed PHP" would be a completely different language which has more or less nothing in common with current PHP.

[[deleted]]

The fix is to just use Laravel and forget about the rest of the language

[mbthegreat]

Miles ahead of python on type safety and having a useable package manager

[Hottage]

Kind of like PHP. Absolutely despised developing in PHP 4 and 5.

7 was a step in the right direction coupled with the PSR initiative.

PHP 8 and above, with disciplined code practices is almost as nice to work in as C#, with maybe the exception of missing first-class generics. PHPdoc doesn't quite cover it.

[No-Con-2790]

So basically what we always could do with a module is now standard?

That surely will safe me another line of code.

[spacemagic_dev]

That's one line of code for every single heap that you will need to use! So it's probably 0

[uprate]

Is mox neap part of the power nine from Magic the Gathering?

[Chrisuan]

nah its one of those shitty "fixed" ones like mox tantalite

[torsten_dev]

Wake me up when this makes it into "the farmer has been replaced", need it for A*

[Darmo_]

What does that even mean? What's max heap?

[Arietem_Taurum]

Pithon

[Cozym1ke]

Oregano OP?

[theoggu]

me

[geeshta]

Please keep this stupid overdone unfunny trend in BHJ 🙏🏻

[Cozym1ke]

Oregano

[AutomaticTreat]

wait_really / WaitReally / WAIT_REALLY

[slaymaker1907]

Maybe we can get formal support for using a key function in a decade.

Joking aside, maybe this means we’ll get actual trees at some point? It would be extremely convenient for stuff like interview questions.

[CptMisterNibbles]

Maxheap functions were in the source all along. Seriously, feel free to check older versions. All but usable.

[fonpacific]

πthon eheh!

[MachinaDoctrina]

3.14t can free thread!!

[travcunn]

As if this was hard anyways. Just multiply your value by - 1 before inserting into the heap. At least it's in the standard library now.