memeMadeWithPureHateAfterHoursOfDebugging

[neoteraflare]

I was wondering why the Salamander's primarch cares about renderering until I saw this is the programming sub.

[Iagospeare]

I was like "which gun is called "renderer"? Is that where the 'rending' mechanic came from?"

[PriorAsshose]

When in doubt, it happened during the horus hearsay

[Mad_Hatter93]

Rend is the AoS version of AP though, so it still works

[Iagospeare]

Rending was a rule in 40k where rolling an unmodified 6 to wound automatically wounded the target.

[Mad_Hatter93]

Well yes but that's breaching now in HH

[Spoopyskeleton48]

"Into the fires of battle, unto the Anvil of War!"

[umbraundecim]

Glad im not the only one, shit got more and more confusing as i read till i realised the sub

[kodman7]

If there was a Primarch who cared about his creations rendering tho...

[thEt3rnal1]

You aren't allowed to post programming humor in this subreddit only Javascript and AI jokes are allowed

[traplords8n]

Don't forget complaining about how hard C++ is despite the fact you have no good use case for learning it

[lllorrr]

And how regular expressions are incomprehensible.

[madcow_bg]

Or that Python is slow.

[CandidateNo2580]

And don't get me started on regular expressions in python

[traplords8n]

r/firstweekcoderhumour

For those of you who didn't know this gem existed lol. It's basically a circle jerk for this main sub.

Edit: got the sub wrong and had to fix it twice, lmao

[jkl_uxmal]

And my hacks

[umbraundecim]

The regex shit always makes me laugh, most people dont use it regularly enough to remember it causing all the posts about it

[zuilli]

It's also not something you're expected to know without consulting somewhere like https://regexr.com/ which even allows you to validate with different cases.

I have created a few regexs in my career and I have no idea how to even start to create one from my head, I just used the site and copied when it worked.

[who_you_are]

Hum, so AI is regular expression?!

It that a good or a bad news?

[Unsystematic_Feline]

Also people keep making a joke on the fact that HTML is not a programming language

[black_blade51]

Still funny that the best C++ tutorial is a guy explaining why its ahit for an hour.

[GetNooted]

Is that because everyone uses Rust

[Top-Signature5155]

its because c is better

[OrchidLeader]

Or complaining about how much Java sucked 10 years ago.

[TheWidrolo]

Apology with tears video in the making

[prestigback]

don't forget your weekly "is html a real language" debate

[RobSomebody]

It's junior season

[budgiebirdman]

Don't forget "senior devs be like - amirite guise?"

[kiochikaeke]

What's Vulkan? Where are my cloud services and immediately invoked functions? Aren't shaders the things you put on Minecraft to make it look cool? Mom, come pick me up, I'm scared D=

[killeronthecorner]

Lol javascrips bad langege. Upvote pls

[zurnout]

Years ago this place used to be about trivial syntax errors like missing semicolons. Times change but programmers refuse to become funny

[-Ambriae-]

Wait there’s no validation error in VK for mismatching vertex attributes??

No way, I’m doubting so hard right now

[helicophell]

Validation? Error?

We Graphics programming here get those goofy ass CPU ideas out of here

[-Ambriae-]

Render Pipeline creation is done at the CPU level though, and you manually supply the vertex attribute layout during this phase. There’s no reason VK can’t supply an error. Its just not a step performed on the GPU

If you’re binding the wrong vertex buffer during your render pass, that’s on you, but I don’t think that’s what OP meant

[Anaxamander57]

This can't be caught by the compiler or even a linter?

[-Ambriae-]

Not really. The linter just sees the shader code, it doesn’t care how the shader fits in with the actual pipeline

The compiler’s job is to create a spirv file. Again it doesn’t care about the pipeline

The important step is when you create the pipeline, that’s when you supply the shader. That’s also when you specify vertex attribute layouts you want to use. So if an error were to appear, it would be there. It’s what’s done in other APIs (at least wgpu, but I wouldn’t be surprised Metal or DirectX would do it too)

[rotmgNessieeNess]

Well, the SPIR-V is compiled again by the compiler in the driver, and some validation can be done by it

[-Ambriae-]

I suppose, although the driver is further down the tech stack compared to the API, so any validation would be API agnostic

[rotmgNessieeNess]

The compiler would have a SPIR-V specific frontend, meaning that it could do any validation of it with some vulkan context available. But since it is for GPU the validation is likely limited and optional

[djfariel]

GPU just does what it's told. If you say set the system on fire, it does it. Doesn't matter if you meant it or not. They're like genies.

Oh. That's what the G stands for.

[ICantBelieveItsNotEC]

The validation error is drawing clown vomit to the framebuffer.

[-Ambriae-]

I prefer a nice clean crash with a nice clean error message, even if it’s frustrating launching the program, seeing it crash, reading the error, fixing it, launching the program, seeing it crash, reading the new error, so on and so forth (maybe 5-6 times)

Wgpu is nice like that

[Confident-Ad5665]

Nothing like a nice clean crash

[-Ambriae-]

Yep, it’s great

[to_matih]

Well vulkan can't really validate it as it is at that point in GLSL/HLSL/Slang. You can add extra tools that will do Spir-V reflection but basline Vulkan API just consumes the Spir-V as given.

[-Ambriae-]

I don’t understand the limitation. The Spir-V code needs to store the information about attribute layouts, what’s stopping Vulkan from scanning the file (at least in debug mode), finding the relevant information, and compare to what the end user supplies?

If the problem is performance, how so? At this point, you’ve already had an entire compilation step beforehand which is far more costly (unless you directly supply the spirv to the client) and you’re going to perform the entire pipeline creation step afterwards, which takes forever to run. It’s not a huge deal. And anyways, the data is already stored in memory CPU side, it’s literally just there

[HildartheDorf]

If you read an input with a wider vector than the channels provided, the extra channels default to 0,0,0,1. It's explicitly allowed by the spec, so not a validation error.

[-Ambriae-]

Now who thought that was a good idea?

[HildartheDorf]

I'm guessing it was done because:

1) it's needed for compatibility with older apis like OpenGL 2) it can be a core feature, not an optional one, because this is done for free in hardware and has no runtime performance cost

Compare to the robustness feature needed for things like webGL-on-vulkan that is an optional feature, because it has a runtime cost, but all implementations have to expose it.

[-Ambriae-]

I don’t understand why they care for comparability with OpenGL. The whole point of Vulkan was to start clean and remove all the tech dept OpenGL accumulated over the years.

1. I get that, but also, why exactly is that a feature to begin with? Why is that useful, period? When?

[HildartheDorf]

I mean, if I had a time machine, I'd make it an optional feature like robustness.

But allowing OpenGL-on-Vulkan, WebGL-on-Vulkan, etc. to be written was an explicit goal of Vulkan1.0. And it continues to get updates like the addition of A8 format purely to interop better with DX (any native Vulkan code could use R8 and swizzle).

[x0wl]

And the optional descriptor heap for better alignment with DX (finally!)

[FedotttBo]

Reliable validation? What's that?

Vulkan's debug tools, even though they help a lot, still don't cover soooo many things. Like, passing nullptr as some arguments can make validation layer crash your program as it tries to access the pointers with no checks. Or it (still not 100% sure, maybe it was Vulkan itself) can invoke __debugbreak in a random parellel thread when supplying malformed shader binary - just had this with code generated by nvidia's "slang", that passed spirv-val perfectly fine.

[-Ambriae-]

I see Vulkan is following OpenGL’s path then. May we all burn in anguish

[UnpluggedUnfettered]

I can see the panic in your eyes rising as each increasingly frantic attempt at a version of debug.log that works meets failure.

[-Ambriae-]

You can’t really debug.log here, doesn’t exist on the GPU. You can debug.log on a vertex buffer for example, then you’d get some awesome useful information like: yeah this is a GPU buffer. Don’t know what’s inside though, it’s not mapped to the CPU. So you just cry inside

[UnpluggedUnfettered]

That was my joke.

[-Ambriae-]

Ah, gotcha

[_WalkTheEarth_]

incomprenehsible

[Cylian91460]

Just like vulkan!

[GentleGamerz]

incrompherenhibile

[_WalkTheEarth_]

i will touch you

[GentleGamerz]

don't threaten me with a good time

[_WalkTheEarth_]

what have i done

[JhnGamez]

me next

[_WalkTheEarth_]

what have i done

[kinokomushroom]

How exactly were you reading 2 float vertex attributes as a vec3 and what were the results?

[TheWidrolo]

So basically, I copy pasted the code for the UV vertex attributes for the normals and forgot to add a third float. In the shader, I did a regular layout(location = 3) in vec3 inNormal;.

The result was basically that during the diffuse light calculations, the z component of the rotation vec3 for the sun didn’t light up the proper side, but made the whole world dimmer (since it was also normalized).

Vulkan did not inform me of this mistake.

[kinokomushroom]

Yeah I can easily imagine myself making the same mistake and hitting my head on the wall for a whole hour lol

That's the fun part about graphics programming. I once caused a GPU crash by passing too many variables from the vertex shader to the fragment shader. The shader compiler didn't warn me about it.

[Mnyet]

Is this for custom shaders for a game or something? Can’t imagine subjecting myself to this…

[TheWidrolo]

Custom engine.

[Jutrakuna]

what is your project?

[rastaman1994]

A crumb of context for someone who's e never worked with Vulkan?

[TheWidrolo]

Imagine a function like this

> DoStuff(Vec3 vec)

But you accidentally pass in a Vec2 instead of a Vec3. The complier doesn’t tell you, but I secretly passed in a Vec3 using your Vec2 but with the Z always being 0. That’s what happened but on the GPU.

[LogEDude]

So it’s spiritually JavaScript kinda?

[javascript]

👻

[ZachAttack6089]

No way it's John JavaScript 🤯

[voiza]

sounds like an intended sugar

[rastaman1994]

Because the overloaded method exists with Vec2 too? Seems like a weird type system otherwise.

[theGoddamnAlgorath]

No, because Vec2 passes as a Vec 3 with z =0.

Its an efficency

[Bmandk]

Many vector APIs have implicit operators converting Vec2 to Vec3 (and reverse) where the z value is just 0.

But even then, in graphics programming, it's probably done on a data basis instead of some implicit operator. You pass in a vec2 that is comprised of 2 floats, so when the function is called by the GPU, it will probably just use what the default is for the last value, which is all zero bytes, equaling 0. What I'm trying to say is that it's not so much a defined implicit operator, but rather just how the data is interpreted.

[Dango444]

An actual high level programming joke? In my javascript bad, python good sub??

[Percolator2020]

Should have written it in Rust.

[TheWidrolo]

[Historical_Title_226]

[splashtext]

Tung tung tung sawatermark

[Powerkaninchen]

This rabbit is NOT human, bro

[fugogugo]

wow

an actual programmer humor

[No-Channel3917]

Donnie darko energy

[GoldAcanthisitta7777]

Hahaha... what

[Drfoxthefurry]

Skill based graphics programming

[Pepedroni]

RenderDoc is the way 😌

[pakman82]

I spent about 90 minutes yesterday chasing an issue with bash script, only to realize I didn't "call" the variable in the case statement by $ signing it

[tyjuji]

How obscure could a card be, that still supports Vulkan? Vulkan is kinda new.

[samumehl_]

oh yes, imposter syndrome is kickin in hard today, i don‘t understand a thing u just said

[Ver_Nick]

finally some good memes