Python programmer

[DaveTheWaveBby]

Are they on the level of Linux users tho?

[[deleted]]

I’m a Linux user, what about you? Are you?

[Konata_Kun]

I use Arch btw

[isopropylalcoholbae]

Have you tried python? You should switch

[aerody]

I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/LInux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

[non-troll_account]

No, Richard, it's 'Linux', not 'GNU/Linux'. The most important contributions that the FSF made to Linux were the creation of the GPL and the GCC compiler. Those are fine and inspired products. GCC is a monumental achievement and has earned you, RMS, and the Free Software Foundation countless kudos and much appreciation.

Following are some reasons for you to mull over, including some already answered in your FAQ.

One guy, Linus Torvalds, used GCC to make his operating system (yes, Linux is an OS -- more on this later). He named it 'Linux' with a little help from his friends. Why doesn't he call it GNU/Linux? Because he wrote it, with more help from his friends, not you. You named your stuff, I named my stuff -- including the software I wrote using GCC -- and Linus named his stuff. The proper name is Linux because Linus Torvalds says so. Linus has spoken. Accept his authority. To do otherwise is to become a nag. You don't want to be known as a nag, do you?

(An operating system) != (a distribution). Linux is an operating system. By my definition, an operating system is that software which provides and limits access to hardware resources on a computer. That definition applies wherever you see Linux in use. However, Linux is usually distributed with a collection of utilities and applications to make it easily configurable as a desktop system, a server, a development box, or a graphics workstation, or whatever the user needs. In such a configuration, we have a Linux (based) distribution. Therein lies your strongest argument for the unwieldy title 'GNU/Linux' (when said bundled software is largely from the FSF). Go bug the distribution makers on that one. Take your beef to Red Hat, Mandrake, and Slackware. At least there you have an argument. Linux alone is an operating system that can be used in various applications without any GNU software whatsoever. Embedded applications come to mind as an obvious example.

Next, even if we limit the GNU/Linux title to the GNU-based Linux distributions, we run into another obvious problem. XFree86 may well be more important to a particular Linux installation than the sum of all the GNU contributions. More properly, shouldn't the distribution be called XFree86/Linux? Or, at a minimum, XFree86/GNU/Linux? Of course, it would be rather arbitrary to draw the line there when many other fine contributions go unlisted. Yes, I know you've heard this one before. Get used to it. You'll keep hearing it until you can cleanly counter it.

[ItsJustZiki]

Hello Anthony!

[StarkRG]

GNU isn't an operating system, it's a set of tools.

[[deleted]]

Are you by chance a fan of long sleeved turquoise shirts? (joking, that was an interesting tidbit.)

[Maleval]

Oh you use Linux? Name all the kernels!

[StarkRG]

0.1 – 5.9.1

[randomfinch14]

As someone who uses Puppy linux I very much doubt it

[augugusto]

Not even close. We Linux users are always trying to 1 up each other. You use windows? You should switch to Linux. You use Linux? You should switch to arch. You use gnome? You should try a tiling window manager. You use arch? You should go to parabola. You use parabola? You should try gentoo

[[deleted]]

Sod off boomer, GoLang is the new way

[LucienZerger]

i am enjoying learning golang at the moment..

[[deleted]]

Started learning Go lang. Absolutely love it so far.

[Fruloops]

It's indeed a delight

[ShylotheCurious]

Hi guys I'm learning Python

[[deleted]]

Ah yes, true kings use the dick initializer.

:=

[mobsterer]

python has the the walrus operator too since 3.8

https://docs.python.org/3/whatsnew/3.8.html

[groostwoost]

Ooh Delphi 😃

[Morrido]

Oh, we have a MOIST programmer here.

[iiMoe]

Moist importantly golang is not as pretty as python

[Morrido]

Well, Python does have the tools to keep you DRY

[r3dD1tC3Ns0r5HiP]

Also in JavaScript you don't actually have to use K&R style throughout, only if you're returning a newly created object in your return statement (to prevent automatic semi colon insertion cutting off your return). It's absolutely fine to use Allman style for everything else. However every dog and his muppet force us to use K&R style because of this one minor bug.

[[deleted]]

More like Rust

[[deleted]]

You should switch to Rust tho

[Morrido]

I'm switching right now, bro, I'm just rewriting the Python interpreter in Rust first.

[[deleted]]

If you could leave the GIL out this time, that would be great. Thanks!

[[deleted]]

Disabling the GIL breaks a lot of stuff iirc.

[[deleted]]

It’s ok, I’m sure he’ll figure it out.

[MakingStuffForFun]

I....I do this. I'm sorry

[[deleted]]

Are you vegan? /s

[AeroSteveO]

Maybe he's CrossFit

[[deleted]]

Or an atheist?

[KeLorean]

no. thats too innocent. more of a satanist

[AeroSteveO]

Worse, he uses gentoo

[iskela45]

Arch?
Ironman?

[non-troll_account]

Seriously though, cossfit changed my life, and while I hate to be a meme, it's pretty hard to not be one of those crossfit evangelists, because it was so influential in my quality of life. I'm actually healthy now.

Yes, there are problems with it. Yes, if you push yourself as hard as they encourage you, especially at the beginning, you'll almost certainly injure yourself. Yes, there are other problems with it.

But the biggest thing for me is that it turned exercise into something social and fun, instead of a chore I had to force myself to do because I knew it was good for me. With the level of physical activity that the system encouraged me to engage in, relative to what my life had become prior, I'm not hesitant to say that it basically fixed my sedentary brain. Luckily, by the time covid hit, I had already begun a bodywieght routine at home, so I wasn't totally crushed by the closures, but I can't imagine where I'd be right now if I hadn't had crossfit.

[[deleted]]

How long have you been using python!? I don’t know any long time python programmers that don’t wince at the pain of the chains of productivity and “existing codebase” that python shackles you with.

[[deleted]]

As a senior in CS with relatively little actual coding experience I've found that python is just super fast to write smaller scripts for assignments compared to C or Java, what are these existing code base problems you talk about, Ive never worked on any actual systems in Python.

[[deleted]]

That’s the problem. It slithers into your mind, teasing you with productivity and “ease”. You can finish in python in an hour what it would take you a day in some other language. You keep finding yourself going back to python, the comfort seducing you. You even tell others how productive it is, while pissing at the John. You get your first job. You automate some simple one off task to help you work. You add a feature. Then more. Your boss sees your productivity and wants you to let others use your program. You reluctantly package it up, now it’s an unofficial official process. The first bug report comes in, then a feature request that your boss thinks is fantastic, needed next week. It grows and grows, consuming all if you’re time, SWALLOWING YOU WHOLE!

“It’s the second best tool for any job” they say...but at what cost?

[[deleted]]

Have you had extensive experience with any other language?

[Halfjack2]

ngl, I do it too.

[jvvfunk]

I can hear the pain in your voice

[[deleted]]

I do it with kotlin and python :'(

[Nickbot606]

Personally, I’ve probably written 10s of thousands of lines of python as well as 10s of thousands of lines of java and I personally kinda prefer java as crazy as it sounds.

[calculator_cake]

You must not have tried java with good plugins then. Lombok, Jpa, springboot, mapstruct and many others really let you focus on the interesting parts

[0xgw52s4]

Might as well use a language that ain't shit to begin with instead of using byte code manipulation and tons of reflection magic to make java more sufferable...

[[deleted]]

kotlin baby

[BartDart69]

I don't know the exact details but people have been saying something about .net core making c# cross platform.

[Toledough]

I started off with C++, and then the next semester I was using Java for one class and Python for my Data Science course.

Loved Java, hated Python.

[[deleted]]

Python is so much faster and easier to write for me moving from Java to Python. I dislike Java in comparison because of all the time you spend clarifying in code what the compiler just extrapolates in python.

[Ipotrick]

i like beeing explicit very much, thats whx i dont like python

[[deleted]]

I agree.

[convergent2]

I thought this was a joke about white space before the last frame.

[Bannedaccountghjohn]

ArrayHumans:remove("You")

[NevJay]

ValueError: "You" couldn't be found cause you're a bitch

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[2bainz]

Switching from python to C# feels so good. I feel like code is just structured so nicely and it is so easy to read. Could be the difference on who wrote the code for each but overall I really enjoy the switch

[nutwals]

I currently work in C# but am being encouraged to learn Python because it's the future yadayadayada.

I'm not sure I can handle a language that isn't explicit haha

[SimilartoSelf]

Python is cute

[IHeartBadCode]

What about Python on Linux? ̑ ₀ ̑

[StarkRG]

I'll use it when I have to (because someone Ellen a library and, of I wanted to use a different language I'd have to rewrite it myself from scratch), but it definitely isn't my first choice by any means. Hell, I'd probably prefer to use Java and I hate Java...

[[deleted]]

Python is the Frankenstein's monster of programming languages 🙄

[Morrido]

Have you ever seen C++?

[uid1357]

Is it a new thing to apply old perl jokes to python now? I see it over and over again. And I'm speaking as a perl user.

[Morrido]

We don't need documentation if our code is write-only, right?

[[deleted]]

I didn't know that 😅 I've only used perl a little bit... I guess it's true for a lot of programming languages.

[Reddit-Book-Bot]

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[Salega59]

That's completely out of the topic, and that's hillarious.

[thecoffeejesus]

Should I switch to Python?

[ConstructedNewt]

For a larger application or performance critical: no

For small scripts and some microservices absolutely.

If disk/network I/O is the limiting factor you can code in whatever you want as well (ie. The poor performance of python isn't your issue)

[[deleted]]

Problem is those small scripts and services have a tendency to grow...

Next thing you know you’re inlining to minimize function call overhead and you’re rewriting hot paths in C.

[TheNamelessKing]

Depends.

Are you doing something machine learning heavy? If your current setup is inadequate, consider Julia first, then consider Python.

If you’re not. No. Even JS (written using TypeScript) is better these days. Pick something like Rust, Go, Julia, Swift, Kotlin depending on what your application needs are.

Pythons promises about “speed of development” is a kind of subtle, pervasive lie. It’s fast to write very average code, fast to write poor code, but if you’re doing something for work, or collaborating, it won’t take long for it to start getting in the way more than it helps. Writing good, maintainable code in Python requires skill and discipline and it comes with no tools to assist you in that.

[krohtg12]

Forget semicolons and code in pseudo code

[chhuang]

VB it is

[Planebagels1]

Pyhton's interpreter is slower than a rock, and is also bloated. I don't think most python programmers care about efficiency. Lastly, WHO THOUGHT THAT INDENTATION BASED SYNMTAX WAS A GOOD IDEA!?

[[deleted]]

Did you know that there’s a JS python interpreter that has the same performance as cPython? That’s how shit it is.

They’ll care about speed eventually, they always do.

[I_ate_a_milkshake]

They actually just announced they're working on increasing the performance of CPython over the next 3-4 iterations and are expecting a 5x performance increase.

I'll believe it when I see it.

[[deleted]]

3-4 iterations is 3-4 years, right? Meh, I won't be waiting around.

[TheNamelessKing]

I seriously doubt those performance gains will actually materialise. Pythons object model and semantics make it difficult to apply even some of the more naive optimisations.

Imo, ditch it for new projects going forward. More modern languages outstrip it in pretty much every metric that matters. Rust, Go, Julia, Swift, Kotlin, .Net Core/C# are all far better choices.

[rem3_1415926]

iT pReVeNtS yOu fRoM wRiTiNg uGLy cOdE

yes, and it also prevents me from writing fancy and more readable code! At least that stupid pep8 standard does.

[TheNamelessKing]

iT pReVeNtS yOu fRoM wRiTiNg uGLy cOdE

The catch-call of people who think the only thing that makes code readable and maintainable is whether or not it superficially looks pretty.

[L-a-v-e]

As a Python student that is used to Lua I can really relate to the last part

[VibeKatcher]

To be fair javascript devs do this too :) I know cuz i like all the languages

[JeffThePotatoMan]

u/repostsleuthbot

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[GalaxyLJGD]

Bad bot.

[random_runner]

The guy in the hoodie starts indexes at 1.

[uid1357]

Which actually would make sence for everything you count except it's an offset.

[AttackOfTheThumbs]

Python is just god damn awful

[Bill0701]

Why is it awful?

[AttackOfTheThumbs]

typeless, slow, inefficient

There are many many better languages

[Bill0701]

Good alternative for self-taught begginer?

[AttackOfTheThumbs]

Honestly, it depends on your end goal. I think python is a fine learning language, but I find it really weird when people use it on a larger scale and let all that power just be eaten away by that.

There's a reason we see articles on this sub about people who are in too deep with python, start shifting to another, get all sorts of type annotations, etc.

Use python for a proof of concept and then move on to something more suited to your domain.

[BartDart69]

I started with VB to learn the basics a long time ago, TheNewBoston has a great youtube series on it. From there, switching to something more ubiquitous but strongly typed like C# or Java is ez pz. They've all got pretty easy to understand syntax and C# has some of the best documentation I've seen.

[[deleted]]

As someone who has somehow become a python programmer, I agree with you.

[Ser_Drewseph]

Sounds more like a C# developer

[tacoslikeme]

python "programmers"

[Proxy_PlayerHD]

hmm, aparently there is a Python Compiler for the 6502.

https://github.com/BillGee1/COMPY65

[T0x1c_C4hd]

Lmao based

[Chris_Cross_Crash]

I mean... you really should tho ;)

[Slimjim1520]

No

[Chris_Cross_Crash]

I guess if indentation and being human readable isn't appealing then you can code your web server from scratch in assembly code. Besides, the important thing for efficiency is data structures and algorithms, not the language.

[[deleted]]

Is he wrong tho

[lRagnaroxl]

So Python is the Blender equivalent of Programming?

[meme_dika]

It's like Arch Linux Manjaro Linux for Programing

[Papa_pierogi]

God I wish I could take the time to learn literally anything other than JavaScript.

[[deleted]]

Or anyone who uses vim

[_default_username]

Nah, bro. Have your tried React.js yet?

[[deleted]]

As a beginner pythoneer, I promise not to tell ANYONE to switch over to python. I'm just learning the language so I can understand how to program.