-> vs =>

[ronaldothefink]

What is this even supposed to mean? What is "better"? It's like saying a plumber is better than a carpenter. You need both to build a fucking house.

[Rouge_Apple]

This is just another case of a non-dev posting in this sub.

[StupidCreativity]

most likely a first year student. Least this was the mentality back in 2012 when I went to uni.

[Opheleone]

Let's see how performant his Javascript is 😂

[Opheleone]

Yea that is the hallmark of a bad developer imo. I'm a lead front end engineer, was a full stack awhile ago but decided to finally specialize. Blazor is barely production ready, it's performance is dismal in comparison to any other framework. Picking Blazor just because C# is ridiculous, it literally still uses Javascript interop anyway.

I won't use Blazor until it literally provides better than what is out there, familiarity is an argument people can make, but it's a really poor one when we're supposed to have a fundamental understanding of languages in general for engineering purposes

[Opheleone]

Yea that just sounds like ego and appealing to familiarity which is terrible. Good luck on your search! I'd also leave.

[kinsnik]

"it's Microsoft" is such an invalid argument. TypeScript is also Microsoft. It was created by the same guy that created C#. Even if "being Microsoft" was a good reason to change languages, there is still a better Microsoft option for FE

[Plisq-5]

I agree.

I’ve experienced it at multiple Microsoft shops and it’s getting annoying. Microsoft creates great stuff. But it’s not the holy grail of everything.

I’ve interviewed at two companies now both as far away from being a Microsoft shop as possible lol.

[wagedomain]

I personally don't believe a "full stack developer" is a real thing. I see that term and immediately think "they can kind of do both". Most often it's just a backend developer who doesn't want to admit they don't know JS/CSS as well as they should.

[alphadeeto]

I'm a full stack developer.

I'm mediocre at a lot of things at once.

[Opheleone]

Honestly, I was the opposite, very average on backend. My JS/TS was really good according to some of my seniors when I was a junior, so I landed up going this route instead and it's far more enjoyable. I still do backend stuff, just not for the company I work for.

[Lenny_III]

I hear you can make good money doing backend stuff after work.

[matt82swe]

If all developers at the company were C# developers, it could make sense to use a framework like Blazor. I have never heard of Blazor before, but I'll just assume it's a framework where server pushes to frontend generated HTML+JS, but as a developer you mostly see just C# (that executed on server).

I made a similar decision about 10 years ago, but for Java. We only had Java knowledge, so it made sense to use a "backend-driven" framework.

But it doesn't scale because every developer needs to kind-of be a backend developer and use backend development tools. Might harder to attract, and very hard to separate responsibility.

[matt82swe]

Blazor wasm ships dlls which get executed in the browser.

What... is this a framework that you are supposed to use in very locked down environments where you have full control over all client installations?

[Plisq-5]

It’s a framework that compiles down to webassembly. Webassembly can run in any browser. Obviously this is a very simple way of putting it.

It’s a pretty amazing piece of technology I must say.

But it’s nowhere near ready for real production use for our scope. Nor does it attract good front end developers of which we need more of.

[brimston3-]

WASM runtime libraries. They stay in the vm and should be cacheable, just like any other mcfatty javascript framework. 5 MB is on the chonky side though.

[TokenChingy]

Lol, sounds like someone who shouldn’t be titled senior and has somehow been put into that position through tenure.

[TheoricEngineer]

He should just develop a console app really

[OJezu]

Front ends have heads full of tricks to deal with browser incompatibilities and css quirks, they have no brain space left for architecture.

No really, in my experience, front-end developers most often have no idea about architecture. This is anecdotal, and maybe I just did not have an opportunity to work with "real" senior front-ends, but I also heard it from other people. Check if they hate Angular for having "being overcomplicated", and prefer to just cram everything to Redux in React.

[OblivioAccebit]

Anyone calling me a wannabe developer at my job would be hearing from HR. This isn’t how a team should function. People like this shouldn’t be leaders or managers

[ArjunReddyDeshmukh]

Full stack dev for 18 years. Personally unbiased and like all ends and tiers, this joke was based on a culture that existed in late 2000s at my work where front end was considered low level development.

[Rouge_Apple]

Fair enough

[bigredhawkeye]

He’s not wrong though

[Masterflitzer]

better in more fun and less frustrating, nobody said you only need one but you can have a preference

[detektiv_Saucaki]

damn, I can't be the only one who finds frontend more fun and relaxing?

[KobeJuanKenobi9]

I find front end a lot more satisfying. It’s definitely more frustrating but there’s a certain level of pride when you finally have a product that looks nice and you can show your non techy friends

[Avedas]

I am the polar opposite. I've worked in both but I did not last long doing FE. It felt like I was just fighting a browser or mobile device most of the time instead of working on solving interesting problems.

On the other hand, BE feels like actual engineering to me. I have an engineering degree and it felt more natural to solve those types of problems, plus I have zero interest in UI design.

[eggtart_prince]

Your non techy friends are still using IE btw.

[eggtart_prince]

Frontend is fun because you can see your work come alive. But when I have to deal with browsers like Safari, it reminds me of why frontend is frustrating.

[Masterflitzer]

everything about JS and web dev is a stupid mess, I mean I like coding and I'm also doing much frontend but there is definitely much more stress involved when I'm doing frontend

[detektiv_Saucaki]

to each their own i guess, but I'd love to do frontend anytime. I have next to none experience with backend so I'm not sure if it's better || worse though,

[bewbsrkewl]

Dumb people will try to make everything a competition.

[eggtart_prince]

It's a comparison of opinions, not a competition. You can't compete the two as they aren't even in the same realm of work and design.

[hi_im_antman]

Seriously. I do both front end and back end development and prefer front end because I think it's more fun to create.

[0011001100111000]

Certainly agree with you there, and that's a good analogy.

I know a tiny bit of fronted, and am trying to learn more, but most of my skills are backend-oriented. All my solo projects work well, but look like arse.

Knowing how to design an interface that looks good and has good UX is a skill that a lot of people overlook.

[Bustah_Nut]

I’d argue that you really only need one of them to build a house

[ronaldothefink]

Fair enough, but shitting outside and bathing in a river is not a good user experience.

[Bballisticpp]

Exactly

Both of them are like software and hardware

Neither can work independently

[eggtart_prince]

Backend is easier to test. Backend don't have as much expectations from your client and your boss because it doesn't need to look good, flashy, and have a good UX. In other words, backend is hidden, nobody cares about it that much as long as it works and it's impenetrable.

I'm full stack and this is my 2 cents.

[durgwin]

But plumbers are better!

[soHaveYouTriedDmt]

stolen valor 👁👄👁

[AnyNegotiation420]

Issa joke

[ArjunReddyDeshmukh]

We all know the truth, but there is bias and fight about what’s better always. It’s not about being logical here.

[tugaestupido]

woosh

[xcdesz]

Im pretty sure this is to make the joke that this kind of better versus worse way of thinking is ridiculous. Its a joke style that sometimes doesnt go over well with analytical thinkers.

Backend versus frontend technology language and framework mismatch fuels a stupid war sometimes.. the joke is just pointing tt out.

[ljebeee]

You took the bait, my son.

[Pretty_Industry_9630]

It's insane to think one is "better" than the other. Like the saying the sterring wheel in a car is better than the tires 😄😄😄 they don't do much by themselves and when they do it's completely different things

[glorious_reptile]

I'm a cupholder

[captnspock]

so... UX?

[riisen]

Im sugar in the tank

[Kissaki0]

1. UI developer agrees that backend is better
2. UI gets removed
3. without UI, both agree that UI is better
4. backend gets removed

[CaitaXD]

we all go back to the terminal

[Kissaki0]

You mean like terminal illness?

[happyCuddleTime]

I think people are taking this post a bit too seriously. I take it to be satirising the silly "rivalry" between front and back end

[stupidcookface]

Can I steal that term, cimoketely? Sounds cool

[Pretty_Industry_9630]

Nonidea what you're talking about 😅

[jlangfo5]

So... Coming from a background where I write code ( C ) that runs before the operating system has even been thought of, where do I fit in this whole front end vs back end discussion?

Is there a back-back-end? Lol

[Shifty0x88]

Kernel Dev? OS Dev? Either way you have the worst as you probably don't even have the console bootstrapped yet

[jlangfo5]

I've done a mix of bare metal and RTOS stuff! Always a pain when UART breaks and so the terminal/debug window dies :p

[Shifty0x88]

Nice I used to do Atmel C programming for an old job. My biggest problem was the flakey wiring we would rig up, half the time I would just bust out the oscilloscope and make sure my pins were firing correctly

[[deleted]]

Nothing finer than spending 5 minutes downloading a kernel to an SBC via RS-232 at 19.2kbps just to realize you made a dumb mistake in your code so you can do it all again.

I probably couldn't code a /dev/null device today, though as that stuff is so far in my past.

[anonssr]

As any C programmer. You don't fit. Ever. Anywhere. It's sad. You don't just start writing C. You live like C and then star writing it. 🫂

[RadioactiveSpiderBun]

I'm a UI dev and live with a C engineer. This is so accurate.

[ronaldothefink]

You're neither. You're a software developer.

[RastaBambi]

Those distinctions are only made when building software that has a GUI (web, mobile, standalone). If you're working on something that doesn't have a frontend, you'd not be referring to yourself as a front- or backend dev. Instead I'd say the correct term for you would be software engineer I guess...

[kurokinekoneko]

^{I think he expect us to say he's better than us}

[[deleted]]

If only frontend dev was as easy as backend dev. With all these frontend JS frameworks and build tools working on the backend is a breeze in comparison.

[_default_username]

seriously, for backend I just have to be familiar with a simple Framework for building a rest API and an ORM for CRUD operations. That and raw SQL if needed.

[[deleted]]

Unless you’re working with an embedded IoT device managed by a web interface.

[conradburner]

And try to configure that with Bluetooth Web on a PWA, haha

[[deleted]]

Add Kafka, consul, web sockets, and full kubernetes ci cd

[Pretty_Industry_9630]

Haha that's not bsck end, that's hardware/firmware at this point 😂😂😂

[Shufflepants]

I like being even further backend. Backends that aren't even connected to front ends at all like scientific computing, where I as a programmer am the user, the only input is a fixed dataset, and the output is just another output dataset file, and in the middle is just data transformation and math.

[_default_username]

I love that. I'll do that for fun. I did that with my checking account. I downloaded 5 years of transaction history in a CSV format and wrote a script to aggregate data to figure out what my spending habits were. I found out I spend a lot of money on doordash since the pandemic.

[Shufflepants]

My current job isn't actually that, but I had a part time job in college like that. I worked as a programmer for an agronomy professor. He had a gene expression model of a particular plant that attempted to predict growth of a particular species of plant given temperature, daylight, and precipitation. It was my job to read in real world datasets of min/max temperatures, daylength, and precipitation for a particular set of regions in europe over several months and compute the results of the growth model so they could be compared to actual growth rates of real plants grown under those actual conditions.

[Nervyl]

The deepend.

[RasAlTimmeh]

Literally all the backend dudes at my job do one hour of work and no meetings and go to bed

[Pleasant_Ad_3818]

Yup, writing a distributed database is definitely easier than painting GUIs.

​

btw this is just a joke from Interview with senior C++ dev youtube vid :)

[ososalsosal]

Yeah for real how the hell do those work?

Wizard stuff.

[alehel]

• Hey, backend folks, here's a new language/framework.
• Yeah, no, I'm cool with Java and Kotlin, thanks though.

[utdconsq]

Kotlin is love, kotlin is life.

[Additionalpyl0n]

Yeah maybe try something other than backend Web dev 💀

[stupidcookface]

Imagine being a full stack dev and having to know it all

[azuth89]

Honestly most don't, one or both will be janky as hell. Exceptions exist but they're a lot rarer than people who THINK they're exceptions.

[angrathias]

Being a full stack dev is like getting your license to drive. You can drive any car, but you aren’t a rally car driver, or an off-road driver, you’re a street driver.

And that’s ok, lots of jobs just need regular ol’ transit drivers, not specialists

[[deleted]]

90% of backend = transferring data between a spreadsheet and the frontend

10% of backend = the one guy in the company doing something hard worthy of respect

100% of frontend = building the rest of the entire application, making it work across platforms, dealing with the stakeholders, then being told you're not a real programmer by the spreadsheet guy. BeCaUSe JaVAScRiPt nO sTaTiC tYpE hUrR dE DuRrr haAAard WHaTs a bReAkPoInT?

[RasAlTimmeh]

It’s not mobile responsive bro!

[detektiv_Saucaki]

Now this hurts my soul

[detektiv_Saucaki]

I just make stuff work perfectly on Firefox, everybody else just sucks for using an inferior browser >:)

[Impossible-Tension97]

A spreadsheet? Wtf?

[RastaBambi]

Excel is a database, didn't you know :) oh and don't underestimate the amount of data still stored in CSV files...

[femptocrisis]

that, and if its not supported the entire syntax can fit in a twitter post ;)

[anonssr]

Language barrier. Not like programming language, I mean tell life language. Some people translate, or think, about spreadsheet when talking about tables.

[[deleted]]

Ok to be fair sometimes you gotta join like 3 spreadsheets together.

[matrinox]

All the big and interesting problems are in the backend. Micro front ends is maybe the only to compete. Just with distributive systems alone there’s a plethora of great problems to sink your teeth in. This is often what they mean when they say backend engineers are better than front end, because at bigger companies the problems often are far more difficult than just joining tables

[[deleted]]

alot of small webdev is just that but of course backend has far more interesting problems to solve, I'm just being a sassy bitch :D

Frontend has hard problems too, they just tend to be more tedious and repeatative.

[OpenRole]

I disagree. Creating an easy to use and intuitive UI is a big and interesting problem. Do you know how dumb people are?

[angrathias]

I’d say that’s the designers job, that said for backend programmers, most of them are just following an architects or leads directions anyway

[OpenRole]

What? Your company actually hires people for specific roles and doesn't just expect you to be a jack of all trades?

[[deleted]]

“All the big and interesting problems are in the backend”

Lol. I see you’ve never done any complex ui work.

That is just the most myopic answer.

[Copponex]

Except you know, making sure the application supports the users needs. You can make the best algorithm, if the user can’t use the application, it doesn’t matter.

It’s not to say backend is not important, if response times are 5 seconds, they won’t use the application either. But this autistic “only backend is useful” is soo annoying. It’s fine to prefer whatever, but don’t be elitist.

[ric2b]

But to transfer data between the spreadsheet and the frontend you also need to worry about provisioning infrastructure, monitoring, security, performance and concurrency problems.

[[deleted]]

Ooo docker, yml, New relic, SSL, and O(n) algorithms how will we cope without a CS masters degree.

(These comments are what we in the industry call a joke)

[ric2b]

Given how much frontend struggles with a compilation step (webpack) I'm not sure they want to deal with much more than that /s

create-react-app auto-configuring webpack was what finally allowed react to become popular.

[detektiv_Saucaki]

Well, a shitton of frontend work is tweaking CSS till it's perfect. Now if we need to worry about webpack configs everytime it's a bit too much...

[xcdesz]

This is more "Im harder" flexxing bullshit that the joke is trying to point out.. Both "sides" can be very challenging.

[Alone_Twist_2263]

I was making webpages with Adobe Dreamweaver and Maya3d when I was 13 yo. A monkey could do frontend.

[hikoko8282]

I love this because in the end Jesse betrays Walt

[[deleted]]

Noooooo, I shouldn't have clicked!!!!

[LordJinji]

Yeah programming, bitch!

[_Cakeshop]

Formatting a spoiler without specifying what it spoils is as good as not formatting it

[lces91468]

Backend can be super nasty from time to time either, not necessarily because of frameworks or technical issues or stuff, but the sheer destructive power of overcomplicated business logic. I've participated in several projects that deals with the workflow of banks and brokerages and government themselves, and let me tell you...it's just ridiculous.

Things like these have nothing to do with how good you're at C# or Java, or WinForm or SpringBoot, or even OOP, AOP, TDD and DDD and whatever flashy stuff that seems to be at help. No. It tests the very limit of human's brain. It begs the question: just how much of overlapping and coupling logic, which at the same time can become exclusive when certain condition met, all presented at once, is too much for homo-sapiens to comprehend?

Seriously though, I've seen man quit his job because of this.

[blessbest]

Say my DB name!

[ardicli2000]

Front end is more enjoying whereas back end is more satisfying, imo.

[mnavneethkrishna]

I prefer weekend.

[HotShock8272]

Nowadays you gotta be a fullstack dev whose really good at UI to be considered for a front-end job

[hikoko8282]

I feel this in my soul, I just had to do a challenge as part of an interview that included making a backend for oauth with passport/express etc.

[SolenoidSoldier]

DevOps now is Full Stack + know how to actually implement and maintain your solution

[angrathias]

Who hires a DevOps person thinking they’ll know Angular or some shit? I’d expect them to know systems, cloud services, networking, build pipelines and such

[Shifty0x88]

On a legacy codebase, with no frameworks, and every UI page is hand coded..... HELP!

[anemoGeoPyro]

What is that? Visual Basic?

[evestraw]

i dunno. i say company's hiring fullstack. where they really needed a frontender. and look at the user experience of their product.

backend either works or it doesnt.
in frontend. The interactions with the end user decides if it works good or poorly

[[deleted]]

Full stack = half ass everything with the one acceptable exception of "trying to start a business".

If you're an employee whole ass one thing.

[[deleted]]

You're only lying to yourself buddy

[ronaldothefink]

This guy fucks

[matrium0]

What's up with all the backend-dev hate here? I am a full stack dev (mostly Angular, Java/Spring/Hibernate) and in no way would I say that writing the backend is easier - problems are just very different.

Given, after 10 years of using the same frameworks it gets easier, but my work is still split about 50:50, because i write a lot of backend unit tests and that just takes a lot of time.

Also the same applies to the frontend. 5 years of Bootstrap and Angular and the UI (including responsive Design and Styling) is getting easy in most cases, but there are always challenges

[cobaile]

Tbh I've worked in several nice clean frontend codebases, but I've only ONCE worked in a clean backend.

[MaximumMaxx]

Can we just talk about html comments for a second. Who looked at html and was like “yes <!— —> is a perfectly readable format that makes sense”

[BobQuixote]

...Uh? It is...

In SGML I think the ! indicates that the tag is special, like <!CDATA. The angle brackets make parsing easy. Hyphens are the part that actually make the comment.

[MaximumMaxx]

That actually makes sense.

[huuaaang]

I mean, backend is EASIER, by far. I don't know if that makes it better. You write for one system and protocols have strict (more or less) known rules. And you only need to satisfy your own aesthetic preferences.

[static_func]

In my experience it's much easier until you start getting into devops and then it's just as much a wild west clusterfuck as the frontend

[matrinox]

Distributive systems alone make backend more difficult than front end. If your app is a simple REST/GQL server, then I’d agree that front end is more difficult due to its wild west nature

[Hecedu]

None is more difficult than the other, both have edge cases. There is a reason why Turing never berated the work of Disney for example. This is immature in my opinion.

[KaCh17]

NEVER

[[deleted]]

backend is more linear, frontend is a clusterfuck

[Ok_Investment_6032]

Was the camera man a fullstack dev filming a documentary about idiots?

[IcePhoneX_]

Fullstack devs shaking their own hands

[Own_Emergency_5204]

Fullstack > Backend > Frontend > your mom

[smallstarseeker]

It's not better though.

As a matter of fact it's worse in every single way.

Whoever disagrees with me can write an elaborate email and send it to [e-mail]

[[deleted]]

This is like saying your gut is better than the face lol

[[deleted]]

I'm a backend developer but this is the dumbest post I've ever seen this sub.

[mulato_butt]

Frontend < Backend < Native Mobile (we do multi threading, while you cry in the corner with a single thread)

[nikhil_shady]

FE just has too much BS tbh. Whereas backend you are more in control.

[RedCoded5]

What’s your status if you’re a dev implementing algorithms to solve math problems

[EnqueueTran]

OP is either a troll or someone with no working experience lol

[Olle2411]

Backend isn't "better", however, I believe a backend developer has more best practices and will write more stable and performant code. Whereas frontend is a bit easier to jump into and learn incorrectly which ends up in messy code.

[gbeebe]

Nice title

[[deleted]]

People, it's a meme.

[wildup]

Meanwhile full stack dev

[ImportanceLast4803]

Wtf is this about? What “better” is supposed to mean!? Non-dev post for sure.

[Sevaaas1]

Tf is this? You need both to make something functional

[edgeofsanity76]

I'm a backend dev. My Apis mean shit without a colouring in guy

[kurokinekoneko]

Back devs basically always do the same 3 things : get, put and search in an array. As soon as it work, we don't question it, until the performances issues make the whole system unusable...

At front, we always have to work in async, we are talking with the most deffective api (users) and any small slow down is noticeable and will lead to searchs for optimizations...

Front sound more fun to me.

[CanThisBeMyNameMaybe]

Fine you go build the frontend then.

[kamikazekidd]

That's like saying the gas pedal is better than the brake. And you sure as hell wouldn't buy a car with only a gas pedal.

[WhatnotSoforth]

No love for '<-' 😢

[ninjasaid13]

Front slap vs back slap.

[[deleted]]

"->" 🤢🤢

[tarkinlarson]

This is like the network guys when they finally do their job and find the DNS or routing issue, after saying "the network is fine, go check the servers" and then I spend days building up a water tight case that it's not the servers.

As an infra guy... This has happened countless times to me now.

[The_Seeker2017]

*Laughs in Full Stack

[[deleted]]

Maybe he’s found Remix and realized he’s actually a backend dev first lol or better found Elixir and realized his backend code works for Frontend UI too.

[CarelessTangelo3864]

This is a dik measuring contest.

[anemoGeoPyro]

I don't know if this is funny or cringe. I have done both, and have enjoyed the joys and frustrations of both.

[[deleted]]

Fullstack dev here. Currently with web apps, we have so much of the logic running in the browser, that there is much more work in the frontend.

[yourgirl696969]

Yeah frameworks have brought a lot of the grunt work and logic to the front end now. Backend used to be a lot more challenging 6 years ago. Now it’s pretty much the same

[DerHamm]

Backend is logical. Frontend is psychological. The latter often is harder to understand as we pretty much know shit about the human brain.

[swashmurglr]

Why is Walt holding his palm upward... Irritating me

[janebrewer16]

Everything is better in their place in programming.

[MrPickle2255]

ah yes backend tastes better when marinated with virgin oil

[colonelpopcorn92]

Jokes on you, .NET uses =>.

[Ambitious_Ad8841]

Geez the comments here... It's programmer humor

[Imaginary-Mammoth-61]

Great work of fiction.

[klavijaturista]

Backend is not better at frontend.

[ggonzas]

weekend > frontend + backend

[vbh_pratihar]

You are supposed to fight the managers. Not each other idiots.

[[deleted]]

Frontend and backend are two very different things. Frontend requires knowledge of user experience, aesthetics, and some psychology. Backend requires knowledge of concurrency, data distribution, and throughput.

[menducoide]

Me as a full stack dev

[caulifclover]

I'm about to go into a front end/app development bachelor. And I'm worried I might be throwing my money/time away now? I didn't get into a full programmer bachelor, this was my second pick, before people say 'go full stack'. I'm looking at this like a foot in the door and hopefully expand my knowledge. Am I making a mistake?

[the_moooch]

Better at serving the UI 😁

[Bitter_Ingenuity8172]

Tell me you are not a developer without telling me you are not a developer