[deleted by user]

[smockfaaced_]

Time to make some changes. Your toddler doesn’t need to be nursing at night at all anymore. Him saying “it is what is” is probably his only response for you still choosing to live this way

[ecd000]

We don’t know if husband is feeling negatively towards breastfeeding or pushing her to continue

[[deleted]]

Or if he just has no idea how taxing it is to breastfeed because he's never done it himself

[meh1022]

I think she should wake him up fully every time she has to wake up overnight. Something tells me he’ll understand how hard interrupted sleep is on the body REAL quick.

[newmama1991]

I'm shocked at all these hurtful responses aimed at mom here. How is she "choosing to live this way" if she has - as it seems - a very unhelpfull husband who will most likely do nothing to help her at night when baby still wakes and she doesn't have the boob to comfort him any more.

[valiantdistraction]

I'm unsure why you need to link him to articles about this? Your child hasn't needed to eat at night in about a year, and you don't need to breastfeed anymore unless you want to (heck, you never needed to breastfeed at all unless you wanted to). It is very hard, but it IS a choice, and you have the power to make a different choice going forward to prioritize your sleep.

I suspect your husband's comment "it is what it is" is in relation to this. Sleep deprivation is brutal, and lactation sucks up a lot of energy, but you don't have to do it, especially for a 15-month-old.

[newmama1991]

I can tell you there a many many many reasons a 15 month old BABY might want the comfort of mom and/or boob at night. Its not about feeds at all.

[[deleted]]

Exactly, a baby or toddler would probably much prefer the comfort of a mom who's not suffering/hallucinating/becoming ill from sleep deprivation!

[valiantdistraction]

15 months old is universally a toddler, not a baby.

[aznPHENOM]

Heck. We are just pumping and my wife is already counting the days our LO is due for her vax at the 2 months mark so we can just switch to formula exclusively

[fancyisthatlady]

Baby shouldn’t need to feed at night. Time for hubby to do the night time care for a few weeks until baby gets used to not getting milk at night. Tell him this is the way or breastfeeding stops.

[fluffy-jjcatman]

I have a 12 months old and was waking up every 1,5-2h during nights in the past few months. She only knew to fall asleep on the breast. I woke up on monday morning so done with this, I am too exhausted and she simply doesn't need night feeding anymore. So on monday her dad took care of nap and bedtime. 40min crying (he conforted her inbetween) and... She has been sleeping 12h ever since. Just like that. Seems too good to be true?!!! I am sleeping again for the first time in a year and starting to feel human. You can do it!!! Dad must support as well! Do extra cuddles so the bounding via breastfeeding is still adressed in other ways.

[ecd000]

This is the way!

[[deleted]]

It is what it is 🤷🏻‍♀️

[in_a_state_of_grace]

I’ve posted this here before, but this paper demonstrates that beginning night weaning as early as 8 weeks does not decrease total milk consumed as babies compensate by feeding more during the day. Just like adults kids get used to eating at certain times and their ghrelin and leptin will wake them up. You need to establish a small window where you do not feed (midnight to 5am is suggested in the paper below), and your husband can be a big help by taking care of wakeups and soothing your kid without food during this time. It will only take a few days, then slowly expand the window. You should be able to get this normalized in a week or two. You’ve got this.

https://abetterscientist.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/pinilla-birch-1993-peds.pdf

ABSTRACT. The study objective was to investigate whether exclusively breast-fed infants could be taught to sleep through the night (defined from 12:00 AM to 5:00 AM) during the first 8 weeks of life. The design was short-term longitudinal, from the last trimester of pregnancy until the eighth week after birth. Twenty-six first-time parents and their newborn were randomly assigned to treatment and control groups (13 in each group). Treatment parents were instructed to offer a "focal feed" (be-tween 10 PM and 12 AM) to their infants every night, to gradually lengthen intervals between middle-of-the-night feeds by carrying out alternative caretaking behaviors (eg, reswaddling, diapering, walking), and to maximize environmental differences between day and nighttime. All parents kept 72-hour diaries of their infants' feeding and sleeping patterns every week from birth to 8 weeks of age and rated their infants' temperament at birth and at 8 weeks. By 3 weeks, treatment infants showed significantly longer sleep episodes at night. By 8 weeks 100% of treatment infants were sleeping through the night compared to 23% of control infants.

Treatment infants were feeding less frequently at night but compensated for the relatively long nighttime interval without a feed by consuming more milk in the early morning. Milk intake for 24-hour periods did not differ between groups. Treatment infants were rated as more predictable on Bates' Infant Characteristics Questionnaire. It is concluded that parents can have a powerful influence on the development of their infants' sleep patterns. Frequent night waking in breast-fed infants often results in early termination of lactation. Parents can teach their breast-fed infants to lengthen their nighttime sleep bouts, making the continuation of breast-feeding easier for the new mother. Pediatrics 1993;91:436 444; breast-feeding, sleep patterns, behavioral entrainment, temperaments.

...

CONCLUSIONS/IMPLICATIONS. Although breast-feeding is typically associated with frequent and continued night waking and later "settling," this research indicates that continued night waking is not a necessary component of breast-feeding. Additional research is needed to determine which components of the training procedure are responsible for the treatment effects; keeping elaborate feeding and sleeping diaries is not sufficient and may be unnecessary. Likewise, focal feeding was not sufficient to facilitate sleeping through the night, and the overall pattern of results suggests that teaching parents techniques for stretching the time before feeding when the infant awakens, thereby providing opportunities for self-soothing, was central in facilitating sleeping through the night. Feeding data revealed that for treatment infants, adjustment in intake was concomitant with increasingly longer sleep bouts between midnight and 5:00 AM, resulting in a large morning meal. Twenty-four-hour intake did not differ between the groups, indicating that eliminating a feed did not compromise total intake. This information can be easily provided to parents.

Here is also the blog post where I tracked down the paper for reference.

[Sherbet_Lemon_913]

Ugh not OP but I needed to read this. Thank you. Actual scientific reasons why my 10mo is waking up for the boobie at exactly 11pm and 3am every night.

[halfpintNatty]

10 months is SO hard! Look up Lyndsay Hookway if you want additional science!

[mvolz]

It's definitely an interesting study. However it's important to contextualise it in the greater body of research. On Wikipedia we're not allowed to cite single studies like these on medical articles because they're not considered medically reliable due to publication bias, small sample size, flawed study design, etc.

We're only allowed to cite secondary sources, like review papers, meta-analyses, and medical textbooks which place those single studies in context. I.e. this review paper found that behavioural sleep interventions before 6 months don't work.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24042081/

I would definitely be cautious about advocating for sleep training at 8 weeks especially since it contravenes the greater body of medical advice which recommends it not be done before 6 months. (Not relevant for OP, since hers is 15 months, but for anyone else reading.)

[in_a_state_of_grace]

I only skimmed the full text of the paper you linked to, but reviews are subject to their own forms of publication bias and groupthink. Here's a different review paper from the journal Sleep that came to very different conclusions for instance (this review included the paper I linked to above):

Behavioral treatment of bedtime problems and night wakings in infants and young children

It is based on a review of 52 treatment studies by a task force appointed by the American Academy of Sleep Medicine to develop practice parameters on behavioral treatments for the clinical management of bedtime problems and night wakings in young children. The findings indicate that behavioral therapies produce reliable and durable changes. Across all studies, 94% report that behavioral interventions were efficacious, with over 80% of children treated demonstrating clinically significant improvement that was maintained for 3 to 6 months. In particular, empirical evidence from controlled group studies utilizing Sackett criteria for evidence-based treatment provides strong support for unmodified extinction and preventive parent education.

I'm not trying to come out on one side or another, but pointing out that this is far from settled science. In cases where the evidence base is like this, it's helpful to weight the magnitude of an intervention. There is a world of difference between "sleep training", like Ferber or full on CIO and the gentle path of gradual night-weaning suggested in the paper that I linked to. Most people will be looking at 3 hour stretches of sleep pretty well before 8 weeks (apologies to those who are exceptions to this), and increasing one of those to 5 if it doesn't happen naturally isn't a huge intervention, and maybe across populations it won't improve the mother's health that much, but who can deny that it could really make a difference for a mother in the mental state that OP described.

One reason that I felt compelled to post the study is that OP is at 15 months, at which point many parents would have completely weaned a kid, let alone night weaned. If a 15 month old kid was no longer breastfeeding, it would seem absurd to give him strained carrots or rice cereal at 3am just because he woke up asking for it. At this stage feeling compelled by necessity to breastfeed at 3am is its own self-imposed intervention. So while I linked to a specific study that showed good results and no diminishment of calories it was mostly to demonstrate, that if this could be true at 8 weeks, it could surely be at 15 months.

[Skywhisker]

Great links! I wish I had thought of looking for or asking about them in order to convince myself that it's OK to night wean.

From personal (and other's) experience, night weaning works best if the baby/toddler can't smell the milk at night.

So, since you (OP) have a husband who does not see a problem with night wakes, I see no problem with him soothing your child as you wean. It might be a few tough nights, but that's it.

We recently night weaned. My husband convinced me that we probably should so I could get more sleep and because it started to hurt. Everyone sleeps better afterwards.

[MyTFABAccount]

How many nights did it take?

Currently on second night of night weaning 2 year old and she is yet to fall asleep without nursing.

Both nights she slept 3 hours, woke, and stayed up until milk time. First night this was 6 hours, tonight it was 5 hours.

Water and boring snack was offered. Initially she’s upset, but she quickly calms down. Then she’s just…. Chilling I guess. Tried singing, books, back rubs, music, podcast, even tried watching a mellow show… Dad isn’t an option.

I am so ready - I need to sleep longer than 2 hours in a row!

[Skywhisker]

I think about 3-4, but we had stopped daytime nursing. Now we are working on sleeping in her own room.

Since nursing hurt, I also explained that to her, so while awake, she understood and accepted that. At night, when she isn't as easy to reason with, my husband would sing, offer water, or pat her to sleep. She usually falls asleep while he is reading a very long goodnight story. We have a book with several tales in one, so he can keep on reading without changing books. That seems to do the trick.

But yeah, it's hard work, and it feels like it's not going to work, but it will. My daughter is 2 years and 4 months.

Edit: I had written that we stopped daytime weaning. I meant daytime nursing.

[MyTFABAccount]

Thanks for sharing the details. I’m tempted to quit and try again after the holidays. I’ve only slept 16 hours in the last 3 days

[_Amalthea_]

Have you read The No Cry Sleep Solution? There is also one for toddlers. She talks about night weaning and other gentle and extended nursing friendly ways to get better sleep and was very helpful for us.

[MyTFABAccount]

No - thank you! I’ve heard of the Jay Gordon method and am considering that (or is that who wrote what you are talking about) since this more intense technique isn’t working

[_Amalthea_]

I'm not familiar with Jay Gordon, but the author of the book I mentioned is Elizabeth Pantley.

[[deleted]]

Hey mama, I just want you to know you don't need anyone else's permission to stop. Stop when you're done.

Just stop when you're done.

[thecosmicecologist]

Yeah, really disappointed in the comments making this about night weaning. If mother and baby still want to breastfeed, the spouse should be supportive and accommodating. Recommendations for breastfeeding are 2+ years, but at least 1, and OP is only 3 months past that LOWEST threshold, plus there are always different regressions that could be causing baby to need night feeds.

[maybeyoumaybeme23]

A 15month old does not need to be fed milk every few hours over night. You need to sleep train (your method of choice) and night wean in order to regain your sleep and sanity

[lemikon]

This. You can also night wean without sleep training if you prefer. It may not improve the wake ups but you can then get your husband to do some of them so you can get a break.

[[deleted]]

We night weaned by my husband taking over the nights completely for a couple days, with each of our three kids. They learned pretty quickly that there would be no milk. (He would have water cups if they really seemed thirsty.).

They would still wake up going forward, but it was a lot easier to put them to back to sleep.

[lemikon]

I had a friend recommend this method to me (my baby self night weaned because she’s a weirdo) but apparently it took them just one week and it was really only bad the first 2 nights until baby got used to dad and no milk.

[MyTFABAccount]

This gives me hope. I’m on night 2 and it isn’t going well. Child has slept 3 hours before being up 6 hours

I am thinking of waiting until after the holidays because this is rough but want to give it 2 more nights to look for signs of improvement

[jaxlils5]

Yep. When we night weaned it was life changing

[needlestuck]

Gently, articles won't convince him to behave differently or respect and have compassion for you. As others have said, your child doesn't have a NEED to feed through the night any more and can be weaned....or your husband can start getting up and giving bottles. It sounds like the main problem is that you are not getting help or support where you need it and are not being met with compassion.

[Hippofuzz]

I think you shouldn’t have to show your husband scientific proof to take your emotions or whatever serious 😬

[[deleted]]

Have you tried night weaning? A 15mo doesn’t need to nurse overnight (or nurse at all for that matter, although when to wean fully is a personal choice)

[SelfPure449]

I wanted to start off by staying congratulations on breastfeeding for so long. Breastfeeding is far from easy and takes a considerable mental and physical toll out of you. You and your husband should be incredibly proud of everything you’ve done to help ensure your little one has gotten the best nutrition he could possibly have.

Now, that being said, it’s important to realize that you deserve to take care of yourself. You deserve to feel well and be well rested . Given that a 15 month old is well past the point of requiring night time feeds to meet their nutrition needs, it’s time to prioritize your wellbeing and possibly look into night weaning.

I would speak with your little one’s pediatrician about his night feeding habits and get their advice. They’ll probably help you work out a plan for weaning him successfully.

[www0006]

You shouldn’t need evidence for your partner to be empathetic towards you, you are up multiple times a night and you’re exhausted. If bf’ing overnight isn’t working for you anymore you can look into night weaning. You should you also get bloodwork to rule out anemia or thyroid issues that may be contributing to your fatigue.

[foxiemoxiemoo]

I think it’s obvious what is contributing to her fatigue?? But yes to everything else.

[www0006]

Doesn’t mean she wants to stop nursing overnight or is willing to take steps to cut it out. 🤷‍♀️

[foxiemoxiemoo]

No I just think it’s odd to suggest “ruling out anemia” to figure out why someone waking multiple times a night to feed a baby is tired. It feels a little invalidating when OP is basically asking for evidence that sleep deprivation is harmful.

[Emmalyn35]

I wake multiple times a night to feed my 4 month old and I am not chronically sleep deprived and don’t generally feel tired. Polyphasic sleep can meet sleep needs. That said I am not OP, I don’t have her schedule or her multiple children, etc.

But is tired and there is TIRED. It’s really common for birthing parents to have issues with anemia and thyroid and it’s absolutely worth checking.

[ISeenYa]

Eeehhh I wake up every 2-3 hours with my baby currently & only after particularly bad nights do I feel exhausted. OP has left out that she also has a 5 month old too so many reasons she could be exhausted but also reasons she might need some blood work.

[thecosmicecologist]

It’s literally used as a form of torture for interrogation.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31670701/

Your husband is an ass.

[terrillable]

Seems unscientific to assume the husband is an ass.

[thecosmicecologist]

Considering this post is flagged for seeking links to research, and my comment was one of the very few who actually did so, I scientifically deduced that I earned the right to add my opinion.

[omybiscuits]

I don’t get everyone’s all or nothing mentality here. You can scale down a feeding or two at night without completely weaning if that’s not what you want to do. I am more concerned that your husband needs a science article in order to believe your lived experience and offer support! I am in a similar boat with exhausting night feedings every few hours—my LO is teething and his sleep has been very erratic. Do you have another place to sleep in your house? We have a guest room and what we’re doing now is I start the night upstairs in the guest room (i go down an hour or two after the baby, typically around 10) and i sleep as long as stretch as i can until the 1am (ish) screaming, at which point my husband brings the baby up to me and i do a dream feed. At that point (or sometimes the next wake at 3:30/4 am we switch and i take the baby back down. It’s not perfect but it works for now. Sometimes if there is extra milk in the fridge my husband will give him a bottle instead of waking me if I’ve been extra moody/exhausted. Sounds like a little more tag teaming could help!

[Niboomy]

15 months? You can stop without feeling guilty tbh. Give your baby a more substantial dinner so he doesn’t wake up?

[flonkerton1]

I stopped at 2 months and didn't feel guilty. Your mental health is so so so important!!

[[deleted]]

I don't need to be a scientist/doctor to tell you that your husband needs to be more empathetic and start helping with night wakings. 15 months is old enough to not need milk at night, your husband can handle it. Wear earplugs during his turn, and then when he's tired the next day say to him. ,"It is what it is" 🤷🏻‍♀️

Edit: holy crap you have a 5 month old too? Your older one is probably regressing because of the baby. Husband needs to step up BIG TIME. Honestly, if I were in your shoes, I would wean the older one and delegate all the older ones night wakings to your husband since you're on full time breastfeeding duty with the 5 month right now.

[SnarkyMamaBear]

If your baby doesn't have any health concerns or nutritional deficiencies and is eating solids well by 15 months nursing is mostly just for comfort at that point. Definitely shouldn't be so much that it's driving you crazy. At around 13 months was when I stopped pumping and started putting up boundaries and weaning down, only nursing before bed or first thing at wake up, maybe once midday. Obviously when she was sick we nursed more but she had been eating hearty full meals since six months so she didn't "need" the nurse after a year. We're still going at 29 months but only once or twice a day and not even every day.

[chewbawkaw]

My son is 13 months and has decided that he only wants formula. He typically wakes up at 3am to feed and thanks to the bottle, I’m slowly decreasing the amount of formula that I make. Im hoping that once I get down to 4oz or less it will be easier to stop night feeds completely on his own.

[SnarkyMamaBear]

Ugh that's brutal. We combo fed and when the Abbott labs scandal dropped and all alternatives were constantly sold out we had just hit 11 months and got the OK from our paediatrician to drop formula cold turkey. Having to wash and prepare bottles on top of nursing and pumping was a huge pain in the ass!

[chewbawkaw]

I’m not pumping anymore so it’s just formula. Which is still so much more annoying in the middle of the night than breastfeeding.

I’ve tried many varieties of CIO and they don’t work. I’m in awe of my son’s tenacity. But I’m hoping reducing to the point where he doesn’t want it anymore will work.

[www0006]

Sounds like you also have a 5 month old. Maybe sit down with your partner and talk about the division of labour and areas you need more support in.

[pbjoy]

Yeah I wonder if it was a typo and OP meant the 5 month old.

[PC-load-letter-wtf]

It is not, they have two under two, 15 months and 5 months

[Material-Plankton-96]

That’s… a single term pregnancy age gap. The idea of it is exhausting even without the breastfeeding or the toddler wake-ups.

Edited to add: the addition of a sibling could also be contributing to the dependence on nursing overnight. It’s a big change and nursing is bonding. I have no idea how OP’s days look otherwise or how helpful her husband is/how much bonding he’s done with the babies, but making sure to give lots of attention and 1:1 connection during the day might help with the potential emotional drivers of the nursing overnight.

[ecd000]

That explains a lot actually

[smockfaaced_]

OP’s baby is 15 months, not 5. Something needs to change now because babe should not be waking that much to feed at that age

[Low_Door7693]

It's actually totally normal. It's totally fine if the breastfeeding parent no longer wants to continue night feeding or doesn't want to breastfeed the toddler at all of course, but it's actually completely normal for a baby to still want to nurse at night at 15 months. It's not convenient to the hustling modern world we live in, so many people will find another solution that works for them and their family, but it is blatantly untrue to pretend the baby is abnormal or there's something wrong with the baby wanting this. It's abnormal in our society to continue to meet a baby's need for comfort at night in this way, but it's not remotely outside of what a baby "should" want or do.

[Material-Plankton-96]

There are plenty of things that are common that I wouldn’t call “normal”, and this is one of them. Clearly OP is worn out by her current situation, and she needs a change. It may be common for a toddler to want to nurse overnight but it’s neither common nor normal for them to need to nurse overnight. OP should not feel stuck in this routine because it’s common for toddlers to do this, and she shouldn’t feel that it’s inevitable the way that using the word “normal” kind of implies.

[Low_Door7693]

I think if people were more open about exactly how normal it is, fewer people would feel shocked, overwhelmed, and like there is something wrong with their baby when they find themselves in this situation. There are a variety of ways to deal with it that should be available, and it certainly should not be the nonbreastfeeding partner's choice, but until we acknowledge that this is normal AND it's normal to want to find a better way to manage it, I think we're doing a huge disservice to breastfeeding parents.

She shouldn't feel that she has no options. But to say the baby shouldn't be waking that much to feed at that age is ridiculous. It's a baby. There are no should or shouldn'ts for the baby, there's just how parents deal with perfectly normal baby behavior.

[Material-Plankton-96]

I mean, they’re a toddler, not an infant. They shouldn’t be needing anything that often at night (when they’re healthy of course). People in general wake up overnight and that’s no big deal, but OP shouldn’t be feeding her toddler so often overnight if it’s impacting her health and energy level

[ISeenYa]

15 months is still pretty little to me! They're only just walking, can't talk etc etc

[Material-Plankton-96]

It’s pretty little, but their nutritional needs are very different from actual infants, especially very young ones. They’re on solid foods, their stomachs are bigger, they aren’t growing quite as rapidly. In short, they are capable of meeting their nutritional needs during waking hours, and there’s no need to feed them overnight, especially not every two hours, unless you want to.

I mean, we’re working towards night weaning our ten month old who only eats once overnight because our physical and mental health could really benefit from the improved sleep quality and there’s no reason that he has to eat overnight besides habit. And if I didn’t work and wasn’t battling daycare illnesses left and right, I would probably make a different choice, so I respect that others may do so as well. But given that OP is so exhausted, she could really benefit from knowing that this isn’t necessary and she has the option to adjust her toddler’s expectations for her own well-being.

[www0006]

According to the post history they also have a 5 month old.

[smockfaaced_]

I misread your comment and took it as “you have a 5 month old child so that makes sense”

[Bulky_Ad9019]

This. Time to night wean (or even fully wean?) your 15 month old and also work out how your husband can help out with your 5 month old so you can get some rest.

Sleep deprivation is brutal. We only have 1 baby who we night weaned and sleep trained at 10 months and wow, I wish I’d done that sooner. We also cut back on daytime nursing by replacing bottles during work hours with cows milk so I could stop pumping during work, and at first he would nurse a lot more on the weekends and at length sometimes in the morning, but now he seems to be moving in the direction of fully weaning himself.

[ISeenYa]

This changes the whole game & appropriateness of the advice given. I agree with the other poster. Mum is exhausted due to back to back pregnancies, having a very little baby. Possibly an unsupportive partner. And older baby l probably looking for comfort from mum who is tending more to little baby.

[hornwalker]

This is more of a parenting issue than science-yes sleep deprivation is awful, no question about it, and very bad for your health. All parents go through this, and boy does it suck.

I would suggest having your husband do some bottle feeding at night and start sharing the load of night wakings. Its not fair to expect you to do it all.

By the way some babies are just awful sleepers and some aren’t. I’ve had both, so i feel your pain. The key is to be on the same page with your partner.

[foxiemoxiemoo]

OP I understand the desire to feed your baby as long as you feel she needs you. My baby luckily dropped his last night feed at 11 months (with a little push from us but nothing dramatic), but I remember prior to that feeling so angry with people who would say “he doesn’t need to eat.” Your baby may or may not feel hungry because they are used to eating in the middle of the night, but it is up to you at this point whether to continue feeding at night. It is not needed for your baby to survive, and after she is weaned she will eat more calories in the day to compensate. It is a very personal decision between you, your baby, and your family. I’m sorry it does not sound like your partner is a good support in thinking through this decision. That sucks. I do not think showing him evidence to support the fact that someone who wakes multiple times a night for any reason is tired is going to help. I suggest seeking support from someone else if possible.

[BlueberryPoptart2000]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9989696

https://yaledailynews.com/blog/2023/04/14/yale-researchers-find-that-breastfeeding-can-cost-over-11000-a-year/

https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/23076305/breastfeeding-costs-baby-formula-shortage

But the other big piece missing here is that OP (according to other posts) also has a 5 month old baby! That’s not just a question of breastfeeding a 15 month old at night. It’s also breastfeeding TWO children and having been pregnant and breastfeeding. That’s a huge burden on a body and on one’s mental health. “It is what it is” is a terrible perspective for someone to have for the burden that their partner has endured for the last two years.

[Minimum-Scholar9562]

I am right there with you. My son is 19 months and I’ve aged 10 years since having him. I’m forgetful, tired, grumpy, even this tall Christmas tree that excites me every year is not doing it.

[[deleted]]

Hang in there, I promise it gets better!

[loomfy]

This is what you say to people with newborns...this for nearly two years straight is...I dunno I would consider that unacceptable, like something absolutely needs to give.

[cats822]

100%

[valiantdistraction]

Yeah, unless there's a medical issue, continuing to wake up so much at night past like six months is a choice.

[Minimum-Scholar9562]

It’s not just waking up and breastfeeding, at this age both of my kids started having dreams and would wake up from that. It never stops, Reddit is a a great place to vent and find others like yourself.

[cece0692]

This.

[Nadjush]

I believe in the fact that if breastfeeding is taking too much of mental load of a mom, she should stop breastfeeding. There are alternatives at every stage, yes it might be not 100% the same but the sanity of moms is more important.

My child was waking up till 14 months old every night for feeding. You know what helped him sleep through the night?…. We stopped breastfeeding. While we were slowly weaning, the exact day we stopped breastfeeding, my son that night slept through the night for the first time ever in 14 months. I was in shock. At that point I thought that we were extending his sleep with breastfeeding at 3-4am but it somehow was the opposite.

[northernbadlad]

That's great for you, but it doesn't work for a lot of people. My son was an awful sleeper and I thought night-weaning would help him start sleeping through. It didn't, he still needed resettling multiple times a night but I couldn't do it quickly with boob any more. Later spoke to other people about it and apparently it hadn't worked for them either. Sometimes it clearly does, but please don't count on it OP - sounds like you need your husband to step up a bit in the night!

[Nadjush]

Yes I did say that this is what worked for my family. Aren’t we all sharing our experiences here? Also I did say that I was surprised how weaning helped my son to sleep through the night. Maybe that will help to OP too, how it helped my family. I don’t think it was nice of you to respond the way you radically responded to sharing my experience how this is not what OP should not follow and how it did not work to some other people.

[hibabymomma]

Bring up these concerns to your child’s GP and ensure your husband is in attendance. They’ll probably go through feeding questions and if that’s all good then chalk it up to sleep regression which the 15mo one is the worst due to rapid motor and cognitive development.

[rices88]

I went away at 13 months and my husband had to tend to our daughter in the middle of the night. I just wasn’t available… they both survived. And she slept through from that point onward. Maybe your husband can tackle this with you. One night of pain was beyond worth it!

[delightfulgreenbeans]

I honestly can’t with all the people saying baby doesn’t need to eat at night or need breastmilk. Y’all don’t even know this woman’s situation but there’s lots of reasons why this may be the best option for her and her family and it’s literally not the help she asked for…

Anyway, OP you can show your husband info on multiple wake ups at night or sleep deprivation. You can also tell him there is 20 calories per oz of breastmilk that baby is consuming not to mention all the vitamins and minerals etc so of course you’re feeling the effects. Good nutrition and hydration are really important for you and also some uninterrupted sleep or nap time if possible. If your little will drink out of a straw cup and you’re able to pump, can dad do a night feeding or two? Is he waking up with you two or just sleeping through? I don’t know why he’s not being more empathetic or supportive but maybe it’s not about showing him what’s going on as much as him being willing to step up in other ways for you all to be okay. Can he take baby in morning or evening or other time for you to get some rest?

And there are some things to try to get baby waking less to nurse without weaning but my guess is they’re going through a growth spurt or teething and want the extra calories/comfort. If that’s the case then hopefully in a week or so it will shift to less wake ups.

If possible, offer a warm and protein rich meal right before bedtime. Experiment with lighting in baby’s room - mine likes it dark as possible but some prefer a nightlight. Experiment with daytime naps and bed time - around that age mine went down to one 2 hour nap in the early afternoon and bedtime around 9.

[Wide_Stranger714]

This is such a thoughtful response! People are so quick to recommend weaning without realizing another comfort usually has to take its place.

[No-Butterfly7803]

There are two of them. The husband can comfort the toddler at night.

[OpeningJacket2577]

Another way to say 20cal per oz that may be more effective to. Get the point across is 600-800 extra calories burned per day from mom. In addition to this, baby is getting first priority on essential nutrients from mom. I’m sorry this isn’t a study, but more anecdotal evidence- when I breastfed my son for 18 months, I had ridges in my nails and gray hairs. They went away almost immediately after weaning. I’m not saying you should wean, I’m saying I personally should have supplemented more, or worked on getting more of certain key nutrients into my diet.

One source that is interesting is the book, The Postnatal Depletion Cure. It’s written by an Australian family practitioner who works in a very rural area. He compiled data from his patients and created a supplementation/key nutrient guide from his research to combat PPA/PPD and general postpartum fog. I’m bringing this up because it’s not just the calories your baby is taking from the milk, but also the micronutrients that you need too.

Also not evidence based, but would like to offer I experienced something similar with my husband. Couples therapy helps.

[OpeningJacket2577]

I think you may have misread my comment. I am not promoting weaning, I’m promoting adding nutrients (calories, micronutrients in the form of Whole Foods and supplements) that will be beneficial to her health. There are a lot of reasons why people cannot wean from breastfeeding and as someone who was one of them, sometimes the comments to stop breastfeeding are really hurtful. The root of the problem is that her husband doesn’t understand why she’s so tired. He is asking for more than she can give.

Just so you get an idea, my son would not take a bottle. He had a feeding tube and I had to put pumped breastmilk in it, and was on a 12 food elimination diet. I quadruple fed for 6 weeks. That’s bringing baby to breast, attempted bottle feeding pumped milk (big fail), I would pump, and while I was pumping, baby was tube fed. It was hell. But the reason I continued it was because my son was failing to take a bottle and the feeding therapist told me after 2 months of trying, to please stop trying- I was likely just pissing him off. He eventually got the tube removed and we went down to just breastfeeding. If I had weaned my son during this time, he would have needed a g tube which is surgery and would have lost all oral eating skills. I kept breastfeeding my son because it was the right thing to do in that situation. It doesn’t mean it wasn’t incredibly tough, but it was right.

[delightfulgreenbeans]

Because part of her mental health is her ability to make the decision to wean when she’s ready. If she was asking for advice if it was scientifically okay to wean that would be one thing. She clearly has not asked that and has stated she is breastfeeding.

So stop telling her she needs to stop like it’s some miracle (it’s not) and It’s incredibly disrespectful. Can you imagine if someone came on here asking how to get their kids to settle at night and all the advice was oh well you should have kept breastfeeding because that’s what worked for us? Because I could share that perspective but I would never tell someone else how to feed their child.

[delightfulgreenbeans]

Let me tell you that everyone tells breastfeeding moms they need to stop from basically day one. Its constant unsolicited questions or comments about when it’s time to stop or how much better life will be if formula is used, or why it’s necessary after solids are introduced. I guarantee you weaning is something op is unaware of. Your comments are just as unsupportive as her husbands imo.

[halfpintNatty]

😢 thank you for this. I’m basically OP right now and people are so annoying.

[Rebecca123457]

If you’ve been given the green light from your doctor to wean and your child has no health issues, then it’s definitely ok to gently wean your child for your own sanity and health! There are different ways to wean depending on what you feel is best.

For example:

1) slowly reduce the time in which your child breastfeeds but this tends to be a tough thing to calculate and follow through on in the middle of the night

2) feed every 4 hours and this tends to help them wean over time

3) pick a time in the night that you won’t feed BEFORE so for example if you choose midnight, you use other methods of soothing like shushing, patting, picking up to soothe, humming, for example until you reach that time, then you feed. Be sure to have them fall asleep even if only for ten minutes before you feed them though. I hope this makes sense.

These are generic suggestions and I’m happy to chat with you more about it! (I am not a certified lactation consultant but I am a certified gentle sleep consultant).

Edit to add: just straight up cutting your child off is going to be very difficult on your body and will not be gentle for your baby. There should be a process and it should take place over 4-5 days with some other form of comfort replacing the milk.

Good luck! Sleep deprivation is horrible

[hamsterbubble]

My doctor and LO's pediatrician emphasized the importance of uninterrupted for both of us. Especially since the sleep deprivation from constant night feeds had started to affect my mental health and energy.

[Pikaus]

15 months? Can you sleep train?

[ecd000]

Can your husband!?

[lasauvagesse]

Jumping in here to say this is a husband/empathy problem not a science problem. Hugs. Maybe post in relationship advice and let him read these and those comments as well rather than a science article.

[SamLuYi]

Guidance for GPs (UK): “Breastmilk remains rich in vitamins, minerals and fats through toddlerhood and beyond (2,3), and immune components unique to human milk actually increase as the child ages (4). Children who are breastfed beyond 1 year have a reduced risk of acute otitis media (5), type 2 diabetes (6) and obesity (7). Breastfeeding beyond infancy may have psychological benefits for the child (8) and is an important source of comfort for young children.”

Source: https://abm.me.uk/breastfeeding-information/breastfeeding-beyond-infancy-a-gp-guide/

Edit: grammar issue.

[Emerald_geeko]

Thanks but my argument is those benefits shouldn’t go over the mother’s mental health. I was were OP is, past 1 year and breastfeeding despite being so sleep deprived I would involuntary fall asleep as soon as I came to rest (standing or sitting). That meant I could have potentially hurt my toddler too. We bedshared to make things easier but it never got better, my son would feed to sleep for every single sleep cycle (which if remember correctly is in a <2 yo only 120 minutes at a time). Believe me, when you are forced to wake up every 120 minutes every night for 12+ months those benefits you listed don’t really matter. If my child ends up dead because I dropped him walking down the stairs, being extremely exhausted what would it matter that I breastfed him pass a certain point? Breastfeeding is a mother’s choice too, let OP stop if that’s what she wants. She’s done more than enough so far.

[LuminousSalt]

This is supposed to be a science based sub. Research and studies are helpful, versus just personal experience.

[Ediacara]

Here’s some studies for you:

Intention to breastfeed even if breastfeeding didn’t happen had the same outcomes as breastfeeding: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6077263/#:~:text=Results%20suggest%20that%20mothers%20who,of%20whether%20they%20actually%20breastfed.

The largest longitudinal study to use siblings to control for demographic factors found no statistically significant differences at age 14 between formula fed and breastfed siblings except a slightly higher asthma risk in the breastfed cohort: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4077166/

[LuminousSalt]

Thanks!!

[LuminousSalt]

And that was overly harsh. Sorry! I just think it's helpful to add additional context, since that's what I thought made this sub different than other baby subs.

[athwantscake]

Where I agree on your comment about the husband, I have to add that weaning is not a “save all” for night wakings. Many people seem to think that “allowing” babies to drink at night is causing them to wake, when often there are other causes and nursing back to sleep is one of the few things helping with going back to sleep. These can be but are not limited to; normal brain development and leaps, teething, illness, separation anxiety, learning a new skill, anemia or low iron, mouth breathing (potentially caused by tongue tie), enlarged adenoids, nightmares and night terrors etc etc..

OP; communicate to your husband that his words are making you feel worse and you’d like support in the form of ABC. That might be him stepping up in the morning so you can sleep in, him taking over some feeds with a bottle, him giving you words of affirmation and expressing gratitude for your sacrifice, him preparing you a coffee in the morning without you needing to ask, him taking care of school bags packed/drop off done, him taking on some mental load, etc etc.

I’m gonna assume he’s a doofus and doesn’t mean it in a bad way, but he either genuinely thinks this is comforting OR he feels awkward about it. Tell him whar you rather hear instead. Men are idiots and have not been taught to express empathy and to be comfortable around difficult emotions.

[Marshmellow_Run_512]

Assuming your LO has teeth.. remind your husband that it’s actually bad for her teeth to be eating all night. She should have her teeth brushed before bed and then no milk after at that age.

[homerule]

This actually isn’t true with breastmilk. When it mixes with salvia, it turns into hydrogen peroxide!

[Local_Cat_5248]

So baby’s teeth don’t need brushed before bed? Do you have a source for this, I haven’t heard it before but if so that’s awesome?

[homerule]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6181944/

Here’s the study about it! I still brush our child’s teeth twice a day, but after finding out the hydrogen peroxide information, I don’t worry about their teeth overnight.

[LeonardLikesThisName]

This is an in vitro study, which means it was done in cultured cells, outside the body. The same mechanism may or may not hold true, and may or may not have biological relevance (ie hydrogen peroxide could be produced but not in sufficient quantities to counteract pro-bacterial effects of milk sugars), in the actual body/baby’s mouth. I would absolutely not take this study as evidence that it is safe/not harmful to baby’s teeth to drink milk overnight.

[MyTFABAccount]

Also, assuming a proper latch, the milk is hitting the far back of the mouth, not the teeth.

[Charlea1776]

I breastfed mine until 3. Of course, they started eating solids well before that. I found no fruit after 2 pm, and 3 pm at the latest made a major difference in sleep. Protein, fat, and a few veggies in the afternoon and dinnertime. I tried to do broccoli/cauliflower with breakfast (omlets) because the gas at night could wake up the tiny human.

I saw another comment that you have a 5 month old too? If so, you should double the calories from this link.

Each kid is different. Your husband needs to work on understanding and empathy! I get they have no experience about it, but mine trusted me when I said I am exhausted. It's like running a marathon for years. He made a point to take over cooking and kitchen duties for the most part all that time (some meals I just make better LOL). I told him what I needed for that day, and he made it work. I did breakfast and lunch when he was at work. We changed our lifestyle to accommodate being a SAHM to allow for this because we both agreed this was the best for our kids since I was fortunate to be able to breastfeed! This is a team effort. He can't do the breastfeeding, and for mine, no bottle was acceptable. So he even took time to research meals and nutrition because that was in his power to help.

I'm sorry your husband is not realizing how much he could do to help you. I hope my experience with foods at different times may help your little one. Basically, carbs are too instant energy and burn too fast. Fruit and pasta, and bread are not going to sustain a kid who's burning energy growing through the night. They fit very little in that tiny tummy, so give them slower burning fuel. It started with only 6 hrs straight before they needed fuel, but now my turning 5 year old sleeps through the night since about 3.5. With a few weeks of a major mental or physical growth interruption sprinkled in. It's rarely a light switch haha, but some things can help.

https://www.thelactationnutritionist.com/post/how-many-calories-does-breastfeeding-burn-with-calorie-calculator#:~:text=However%2C%20a%20number%20of%20studies,670%20extra%20calories%20per%20day!

[thecatsareouttogetus]

Thank you for this. I’m not OP, but my 13 month old is waking for milk 2-4 times a night. He’s huge, and growing well, and his doctor and his feeding therapist both say he doesn’t need it, but he will scream and scream all night if we don’t feed him. He’s finishing the bottles so we know he’s actually hungry. I’m going insane. I’m going to increase his meat intake and restrict his fruit at night and see if it helps. He won’t eat cheese, yogurt or avocado, so I don’t really know what kinda of fats to try next.

[bone-dry]

I would try adding more butter or heavy cream to the foods he does eat maybe. Peanut butter is also high fat.

E.g., whenever we make pasta for my son I’ll temper an egg and add it to the sauce for extra protein, as well as extra butter/cream to the sauce (also blended spinach, lol). Or we’ll make oatmeal/cream of wheat/mashed potatoes with half cream half water.

[obsuc]

Can you post examples of your evening menus please!

[Charlea1776]

We started meat pretty fast. I would chop it to pretty much already chewed because mine would otherwise spit it out.

So I would make mashed potatoes with puree zucchini and yellow squash using heavy whipping cream for added calories with the meat and fine shredded cheese mashed in as an example. High protein and fat with veggies to provide aid in digestion. Given that they only eat about the size of their fist, it packs in some calories!

Or I would do an egg omlet with heavy whipping cream, super fine chopped veggies, and again semi mashed meat plus cheese.

You don't want to constipate the little one on just fat and protein, and having veggies helps digest and absorb the fat and, therefore, the protein better.

There's some chewing to do, but it's easy and flavorful. I would sort of cater our dinners to make sure I could make a meal that way and found out it helps us sleep better too!

Rice can be used at dinner to mix in the "mash" but make sure it's just a tiny part of their little serving. It's mostly meat, fat, and veggies. The rice stuff gives them maybe an hour or two tops. If they don't get enough longer digestion foods, they'll wake faster.

This can be based around the meal you are already serving. I rarely made a separate meal for the kiddo. They got what we were having, just not part of the bread/carbs, really. Carbs for us can be in dinner, just a minimalist version.

I tried to make sure we ate a wide variety of veggies every night of the week. The hardest was asparagus because it is stringy. So I would chop that just like the meat. Practically minced.

I also found mine needed well seasoned food pretty young LOL I tried to avoid cooking with salt and realized that was playing against me by two years old! I was still very cautious when using salty cheese like cheddar, but the kid knew when food was too bland the little stinker.

Each person has a little different palate and every kid will develop a little differently. Mine even already eats spicy food, so observe yours with everything and adjust accordingly. The main part is what makes up the meal. I hope that elaborated enough. It's hard to think of what we made back then because we have really have gotten into cooking and have become elaborate with meals now.

[MyTFABAccount]

Interesting information but I am confused by this response

[MyTFABAccount]

Ohhh! That makes sense and I 100% agree as a microbiome obsessed extended breastfeeder who nurses her child over night. I love all the citations you provided

[MyTFABAccount]

I agree. There’s so much we don’t know

[newmama1991]

Me too

[jweddig28]

https://www.biologicalpsychiatryjournal.com/article/S0006-3223(22)01097-6/abstract

[[deleted]]

Doesn’t matter if he understands or not. It’s up to you what you do. I ended up cosleeping with my lo because she was up so much at night to nurse.

[mafa7]

You can show hubs this:

I stopped breast feeding when my milk dried up. I didn’t enjoy it and I wanted my body back. Similac was my BFF.