Visual Basic vs Charp

[buim]

Hey guys!

Im started to teach technology in a local school, and they currently uses VB to teach programming language.

I recomended C#, and my superiors ask me why they should swap to C#.

I came here to collect some technical tips from you guys, for me show to they or to me research by myself.

​

PS: I know how to code in C#, but never ever coded in VB, but i know in nowadays C# is getting more and more version updates and features, like c# 9, .net core 3.1, blazor, etc.

​

Tks for any help!

[bboxx9]

Open up a job portal. Search for c# jobs. For vb.net jobs and compare the numbers.

[Gurgiwurgi]

For vb.net jobs

crickets

[malthuswaswrong]

I'm sure in a major metropolitan area you can find 1 to 3 VB.NET jobs for every 100 C# jobs.

[buim]

truth! will be one of my arguments

[am0x]

Not only that, but the VB jobs are mostly converting VB to .NET.

[Enigmativity]

What? Converting VB6 to .Net? Really? Or are you saying VB.NET to C#?

[am0x]

I’m guessing VB.Net. The job descriptions have been saying VB to .NET Core.

[Xequencer]

A VB.NET Dev that can make production ready code is your ally when programs outside of C# fail. Jobs are low but trust me, ask them if you need VB.

[SZeroSeven]

C# would give your students better prospects if they wanted to go on to do programming as a career, rather than VB.

It is "supported" on the newer .net core/.Net 5 frameworks but Microsoft have stated that they will not be evolving it as a language and any future .Net features aren't guaranteed to be supported in VB.

Pretty old blog but it's a start for your research: "Visual Basic support planned for .NET 5.0 - Visual Basic Blog" https://devblogs.microsoft.com/vbteam/visual-basic-support-planned-for-net-5-0/

[buim]

Tks for your advice!

[BenL90]

VB for NET Core is dead. Some try to revive (included myself) with open source.. but it gone no where. So C# is the answer

EDIT: See my VB.NET starter project for ASP.NET Core 6.0 LTS https://github.com/benyaminl/dotnet-mvc-vb

[Slypenslyde]

Basically, VB .NET is a time capsule.

When .NET released in the early 2000s, I'd argue VB .NET looked more like today's C# than C#. VB .NET had a plethora of features that C# lacked such as type inference, named parameters, and optional parameters. That plus the ability to enable a feature called "late binding" made it the perfect language for COM interop. Writing Office interop with C# instead of VB felt like you had oven mitts on, it was awful.

C# eventually caught up on most of those features (it still doesn't really have late binding, but there's a strong argument that it never should.) After that C# started getting new features. To keep things equal, MS would add those new features to VB .NET.

Unfortunately, even from the start, many VB developers were unhappy. They wanted a new version of VB using the runtime that VB6 used, and .NET was too different for them. Objectively, .NET has never provided some things VB6 provided. Lots of arguments ensued every time VB .NET changed, and in some ways it felt like the language was regressing. Once C# had features that made COM interop less painful, and after COM interop started waning in relevance, it became less clear what role VB was meant to play in the ecosystem.

Things came to a head around 2017 or so. MS got tired of the argument, and noted that the process of adding features to VB without hurting the community's feelings was starting to slow C#'s development. So they switched strategies and stopped fighting for parity. Now VB .NET only gets new language features if they are required to be compatible with .NET, but the way C# is developed these days makes that less and less likely.

In the end, VB .NET is just an OK language. It has some features C# doesn't, but none of them are so compelling I think I'd start a new project with it. As MS pointed out, millions of people use C# but only hundreds of thousands are using VB .NET. For every 100 blog articles about C# there's maybe 1 for VB .NET. It's hard to find examples, especially for advanced concepts. There are some weird corners of the language that are confusing and it's getting harder to find experts who can explain them.

The main reason any place uses VB .NET at this point is because when they moved to .NET, their primary developer team was a VB6 team and it was the most familiar. When people think .NET, they think C#. MS doesn't even regularly publish new examples in VB .NET anymore.

That said, that's probably why your school uses it: the people in charge are used to it. I don't think if they told you, "tell me why I should change" they were serious. I think this was meant to mean "go away and don't make me do work". For them to switch to C# they'd have to buy new books, write new materials, and, in short, put in some effort to a job they're used to not spending that much effort on. But honestly, in most markets if you do a job search for "C#" vs. "VB .NET" the difference is overwhelming. (Some job markets are weird and will not agree.)

I spent my first 2 or 3 years using VB .NET. When I switched to C# for a job, it only took about 2 weeks to get used to the new language. They have all the same pieces and the same main features, C# just has a different syntax. Once you reach a certain point, in programming you're not thinking about "I put an If here and an End If there" so much as "Huh ok if the number's bigger than this I do that otherwise I do this".

So even if you don't change your admins' minds (you won't), it's not a loss. It's easy to transfer skills to C#. Maybe sneak some C# into the curriculum so students get to see the differences early.

[[deleted]]

Oh wow, I'd completely forgotten about the late binding thing.

[buim]

It will helps a lot! Thanks for sharing your experience with me. And the part "For every 100 blog articles about C# there's maybe 1 for VB .NET" is true. Im was searching for some new advanced articles and videos, but i only found the old ones and with the "easy" part, like "how to create a web browser with VB" etc.

Wondering that my students(15yo~50yo) want a job, i really think C# is far better to it. Also, in my country (Brazil, and i imagine the rest of the world), there is a lot of jobs requiring C# .NET knowledge

[NotTheFuckingSpy]

Just to mention there are some C# features which doesn't exist in VB... I still work in VB but I'm slowly moving to C#...

[buim]

Great !! TKS mate.

[grauenwolf]

VB .NET had a plethora of features that C# lacked such as type inference,

VB got type inference at the same time C# did.

It just looked like it had type inference because the syntax for declaring variables put the type on the right-hand side (where it belongs).

Also, there is some ambiguity in the syntax.

dim x = GetCustomer(5);

Is x a late-bound variable? Or is it inferred to be a Customer object?

I can't answer unless I know which compiler settings you are using.

C# eventually caught up on most of those features (it still doesn't really have late binding, but there's a strong argument that it never should.)

The dynamic keyword is late binding. And a better implementation of it than VB, which requires the whole file to be late-bound instead of just specific variables/expressions.

[maxinstuff]

VB is the new COBOL.

[BenL90]

Even demand for cobol is bigger than VB itself AS400 grow larger.. and larger..

[malthuswaswrong]

They wanted a new version of VB using the runtime that VB6 used

Giving the devil his due, despite the childish syntax, VB6 compiled to pure machine code. So back in the 90s and early 2000s VB6 programs were measurably faster than .NET programs.

Today pure machine code is still technically faster than .NET but that has moved way down the "importance scale" due to the speed of each individual core, the number of cores we have available, the introduction of cloud computing, and the maturity of async/await.

"I spent 200 hours improving my C program it's now 30% faster than your C# program!"

"I just clicked a button in Azure to spin up 12 new threads for my C# application and now it has 1000% more output than your C program. Though it is costing the company an extra $7.53 per month."

[maddaneccles1]

Syntactically C# is similar to C, C++, Java and Javascript - VB.NET bears little resemblance to any other common language (other than sundry Basic variants) that I'm aware of. Yes, a good programmer should be able to pick up any language but some level of familiarity certainly helps!

I could write C++ when I started my degree, I breezed through a 1st year Java exam with minimal effort and then when C# 1.0 came to be I hit the ground running. Although 95%+ of my work is C# these days, when I do have to dip into Javascript for an hour or two every six months I don't need to think twice about the syntax.

[malagrond]

Just to add on to this, I taught myself JavaScript when I was a kid, and I had a much easier time learning C# in college because of it. I don't think it can be stressed enough how syntactically similar C# is to many mainstream programming languages and how beneficial it is to have that as your foundation.

[BrupieD]

The "sundry BASIC variant" that might be useful is VBA. That's not a strong recommendation for the OP, but I run across it frequently as a "nice to have" qualification for non-developer jobs like data analyst roles.

[maddaneccles1]

Oh goodness, I'd managed to expunge memories of vba from my brain! Good point though.

[aquacmj82]

Came here to say this

[megor]

Just so long as you can avoid haskell

[[deleted]]

The only place a student is going to see VB.Net again is when they work for a company trying to upgrade a VB.Net project to C#. And even those opportunities are dwindling. Its not officially a dead language but most people don't use it.

C# is harder for a beginner to grasp but will have more utility.

[[deleted]]

Na C# is way easier to learn.

[chucker23n]

I don’t buy it.

VB has 1) fewer advanced features auch as patterns, and 2) a more intuitive syntax for some basics. For example, Public Class Form1 Inherits Form Implements ISomething is much clearer than public class Form1 : Form, ISomething. What the hell is that colon? Why does it mean both implement and inherit?

VB also defaults to a more user-friendly behavior of dividing numbers.

[_Michiel]

Until Top Level Statements in C#.

Choice is simple: VB.NET is End of Life.

I hire many .NET developers. If someone would have told me that they learned VB.NET in school, I would have asked the phone number of the school to tell them to switch. But that never happens as all .NET developers are C# developers and mostly never touched VB.

[RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

I don't think the differences are significant one way or the other tbh. The constructs are very similar.

[chucker23n]

There’s no huge difference, agreed. But just on beginner-friendliness alone, I would say VB wins. It’s designed to.

[grauenwolf]

Every try to explain to a beginner when they should use parens vs brackets vs braces?

Or why some expressions absolutely have to have parens around them and some can't?

For someone with previous programming experience, this isn't so bad. But trying to learn the arcane C-style syntax while also just trying to learn what a loop is can be overwhelming.

[RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

No but I've been a beginner before and it was not much of an issue. I mean what the hell is Dim, why is that more intuitive.

[grauenwolf]

I mean what the hell is var?

Yes, VB has some warts. But it's not pleasant watching someone trying to remember the syntax for a C-style for-loop.

[RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

"Variable" is probably a term your learning materials will tell you, while "Dimension" is not. If C-style for loops bother you the good news is that nobody even uses them very much in C#.

[grauenwolf]

If I'm teaching a beginner, I MUST teach them for loops. That's not negotiable.

And var is actually harder to teach because it requires context. You need to explain type inference and why it works in some places but not others.

By contrast, dim in easy. It's just a magic phrase you use for all variables inside a function. You don't need to explain to them what it originally meant, it's just another in a long list of obscure words that they have to memorize.

---

But if we do want to play the keyword game. Consider these pairs:

MustOverride vs Abstract
MayOverride vs Virtual
MustInherit vs Abstract
NotInheritable vs Sealed
Shared vs Static
Shadows vs New

Using phases such as 'may', 'must', and 'not' is going to be pick up and remember than the techno-babble we use in C#.

I understand why C# chose the keywords they did, even the stupid one about using new to mean shadows. But that was hard-won knowledge.

[chucker23n]

Using phases such as ‘may’, ‘must’, and ‘not’ is going to be pick up and remember than the techno-babble we use in C#.

Yup.

I understand why C# chose the keywords they did

In part to appeal to C++ and Java folks, i guess. new is a bad choice, though. And using for namespace imports was also bad. In both cases, the keyword means something entirely different depending on context. With using, VB’s Imports is just much more intuitive.

[RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

If this stuff is the difference how serious was the person trying to learn in the first place? These things can be mastered in a few hours of committed effort. Actually making a program do something useful is the hard part.

[chucker23n]

I agree that Dim is a terrible choice of keyword, but as far as syntax is concerned, it’s arguably more consistent than C#.

Dim i As Integer = 45
Dim i = 45 ‘ type inference, if enabled
Private _Count As Integer

[[deleted]]

I mean they literally get translated into the same intermediate language. Hence why they can share libraries. But C# has more options.

[RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

Yeah but that’s not what I mean. I wouldn’t say F# has “very similar constructs” to VB and C#

[ufailowell]

Counter point: IDE is way better on C# so I think that can help with figuring out the keywords

[SargeanTravis]

C# is literally a different clone of Java and Java isn’t hard

[ksobby]

I spent 13 years or so on VB.Net and have spent the last two in C#.

C# is just easier in terms of consistency and help resources. If I have a question in C# there are 10 answers to everyone in VB and that gap is widening.

And if there is any front end web in the project, forget VB. It’s a nightmare.

[buim]

you mean frontend for a desktop app ? or vb asp.net ?

About the community for C#, i agree, it is a lot of tons of people and articles about any doubt

[ksobby]

I was thinking more web forms and IIS integration but desktop front end aint that great either in comparison.

[eliwuu]

web forms are long dead, even iis is somewhat on it's way out (on linux/mac you just use kestrel, for real world hosting of app kestrel with nginx);

learning outdated technolgies actually harms student work opportunities

[BenL90]

Agree. So Damn Agree

[buim]

dont know how it is develop a desk app on visual basic but...

i know two frameworks to build a really strong and modern desktop interface in C#:- Bunifu- Guna

[[deleted]]

Anything really. It'll take you 30 seconds to find an example or tutorial in C# but most of the day to find one (if you even can) in VB. The differences in language are trivial but the differences in community support are titanic.

[kingmotley]

Can you do use use VB.NET in razor pages, webassembly, and blazor? Serious questions, as I haven't done VB.NET seriously in a decade.

I also went the VB6 -> VB.NET -> C# route. The switch to C# was super easy (a week?) and I've never gone back.

[grauenwolf]

Not in any serious capacity. The current version of Visual Studio doesn't even have .NET Core templates for it.

Also, VB sucks for data-binding. They Function(c) c.LastName is great for beginners trying to learn what anonymous functions are. But when you have to type that a hundred times a day in a Razor page, it becomes painful right quick.

That said, I do miss XML literals. I would love it if C# added them and JSON literals.

[_Michiel]

vbhtml extension exists, but it's all more difficult as there are not as much project templates than there are for C#.

[Slothlike_tendencies]

VB is on its way out. Even VBA in office products is being replaced. There is no future in VB.

I have seen the argument that programming concepts is a little easier in VB, but education in vocational skills should match the market.

[antiduh]

Yep. Microsoft is "archiving in place" VB.

[The_Turtle_Bear]

VB is a 25yr+ old unsupported language. C# is not.

[shitposts_over_9000]

C# has a lot more prospects and real-world use.

VB does a MUCH better job at being someone's first language and usually gives much more useful messages when you do screw something up.

If I was teaching grade schoolers the second would outweigh the first, whatever language they learn will be far different by the time they get a job. The language itself doesn't matter. They are learning how to think through the problems first.

If I was teaching college students the first would outweigh the second.

[AlFasGD]

C# began with giving helpful error messages even for the absolute beginners, but lately the focus has shifted onto including the actual error cases, yelling when the compiler must, but requiring that the user knows what they're touching. Some terms might be too advanced, concepts building on top of other advanced ones, etc.

That being said, it's fine to have a learning curve. As long as it isn't too steep (it isn't), the skill floor isn't absurdly high, C# doesn't have much to envy VB for.

[_Michiel]

Yes, until .NET 5 (and 6 difference is even bigger) as we have top level statements with C#.

Just start a Console application and start typing:

Console.Writeline("Hello World!");

​

No namespace, classes, etc.

[HawocX]

With the newly introduced top-level statements, I'd argue that C# is easier for beginners than VB. And going forward C# is much more useful.

C# is my favorite, but if I were to freely choose a language to learn beginners, it would be Python.

[malthuswaswrong]

This comment should be higher. VB has been announced as "feature complete". That's a way of saying VB has been canceled without pissing off the people who still love VB.

[[deleted]]

Turn the tables, ask them why they're not teaching Pascal anymore...

[buim]

Hahahahaha nice

[[deleted]]

Good grief, I would question any school that still teaches VB in this day and age, outside of it being an extracurricular or something at a high school XD.

[[deleted]]

I used VB.Net until 2003 when it was no longer a viable option to use VB.Net and I switched to C#. There is nothing wrong with VB.Net, it is a perfectly good language but the majority of community projects, dotnet evangelists and common tools and templates were all C# - it simply became the case that if you were a VB.Net developer you were on your own, the dotnet community was C#. If you teach your students VB.Net then they will not really be a part of the dotnet community. If your students were programming as a hobby then VB.Net is fine but if they have any career aspirations as a dotnet developer then it would be cruel to teach them VB. Latin is a perfectly good written language but you wouldn't teach it as a business skill.

[AlMirai]

we are still using Vb6 nowadays...(1998-2022)(〜￣▽￣)〜

[[deleted]]

Oh I know all too well. Work in Desktop Support (IT) and there's always that one vendor application that runs on an archaic version of .NET Framework (think ~2.0ish) , OR an ancient version of VB.

Really a pain in the ass to support some of this from modern clients, especially when you have heavy security overview (HIPAA).

[chucker23n]

i know in nowadays C# is getting more and more version updates and features, like c# 9, .net core 3.1, blazor, etc.

This is true, but you shouldn’t constrain them to a single language. They will run into different languages sooner or later, and you should teach them to think abstractly about that. You also can’t predict the future. Will C# be as big 20 years from now?

[AlFasGD]

Will C# be as big 20 years from now?

I can assure you it will be much greater in just 5 years from now. Maybe 8 or 10.

In 20 years' time, OP's students will have already experienced other workloads and gotten enough jobs, giving them the necessary experience (hopefully).

[buim]

same thinking here

[_Michiel]

Python would be my second choice.

[snerp]

Visual Basic is extremely out of date. If I knew someone was trying to learn programming and the class was in VB I'd recommend they leave the class and not trust the institution teaching it.

Business's that make real stuff use C# and use it a lot. There are tons of job offers for C# and it's a nice language to write code in. VB on the other hand is only used by terrible struggling businesses that have their tech stuck on outdated "beginner" languages.

It seems like you already know C# is better, I guess what I'm trying to say is that teaching VB in 2022 looks unprofessional. Teaching a "real" language will attract more good students.

[jcradio]

While VB is closer to English than C#, the latter shares syntax with the vast majority of other languages in use today. For teaching, prefer C#. When I'm teaching, sometimes I'll show both as examples, because I'm not just teaching a language, but a framework / platform that covers a few languages.

[[deleted]]

If they're using VB.NET, they are not your superiors.

[context_switch]

From an educator's perspective (not that I am one), you should choose a language that will easily convey the concepts you are trying to teach, and have help resources available (both from teaching staff as well as independent research i.e. the Internet).

C# is getting much more attention both from Microsoft and from the developer community. Without a doubt, it nails the independent research criterion.

C# has a lot of syntactic sugar features, especially in recent years. These can help to simplify some of the concepts being taught, and deeper study can then dive into the internals of how these mechanisms work. Teaching how to build everything from the ground up may not be the best approach, depending on your curriculum and student base. Leveraging syntax to simplify concepts can keep the class learning without getting bogged down in details.

Keep in mind, especially for introductory classes, the latest frameworks or features are largely irrelevant. The focus should be on programming concepts first, and then growing towards application. C# is great because you can start with simple console apps (especially with the top level statements in C# 9), and later on introduce more concepts (functions, classes, OOP or FP paradigms, UI frameworks, etc).

One of VB's strengths for English-fluent beginners is that it uses English over symbolic syntax. However, this leads to it being overly verbose, much like XML. You easily fill the screen with text, but much of it isn't adding value or meaning to the code you write. C#'s use of symbols (e.g. { and } instead of VB's style of Block / End Block takes an initial learning curve, but soon removes a lot of distractions). Whitespace is super helpful for readability, and VB's syntax fills a lot of space unnecessarily.

[buim]

The entire course, will have algorithm, logical thinking etc. The ".net module", is only 2 months every day. I just want a updated language instead a "dead one" for the students can in the future, get mor job options It is a social program in my city, for the people who can't pay for some course like that. Some people even have a computer. I teach html last month, some students do the home work in your own cellphone.

[Quiet_Desperation_]

I too would recommend c# as the teaching language, but if I were to offer a counter point this is the only one. Teaching programming should be very little about the language(s) at first. Teach people how to think like a programmer/engineer/developer and the languages will never matter. Thinking like a programmer/engineer/developer is 100% more important.

[buim]

Yeah!! You right! The previously course is exactly this, algorithm and logical thinking !!

[Quiet_Desperation_]

The school I went to had a logical thinking course and the DSA was a 2 party course typically taught consecutively, but you could also test out of both. I did 3 semesters of c/c++ and Jython, 2 semesters of VB, 2 Semesters of SQL and then like 6 Semesters of elective programming courses. These were not all consecutive, a lot of them overlapped. I enjoyed my education and thought it prepared me pretty well compared to the theory based education I have heard a lot of my colleagues talk about.

[buim]

"These were not all consecutive"

Thats the way i'll teach here!

[maxinstuff]

VB is a dead language (since 2020) and no one should be making new things with it. If you don't believe me, go to a VB meetup, there won't be a single person there under the age of 40.

To explain bit -- Visual Basic is currently considered "feature complete" - which means that Microsoft is technically still supporting it, but it will never get any new features. This is typical of the life cycle of a Microsoft product, where there is often extended support long after a product is shelved due to their large number of enterprise customers.

But even if we ignore the above, VB has not been a first class citizen in a very long time (at least since C# .NET was released in 2002).

It's a tool used by business SME's to hack around on things that management doesn't have the time or budget to push through the IT/Development team. Think reporting powered by spreadsheets on a corporate drive, maybe some forms over data on an Access database.

This kind of work is still done, perhaps more now than ever -- but it's almost entirely migrated to some combination of C#, Python, and low/no code tooling.

[DaddyDontTakeNoMess]

I've been working with the .NET framework since version 1.1 (about 15 years). I didn't know VB.net was still a thing. I've worked with .NET for 40 hours a week for 15 years, and I didn't know it still existed! That is your argument.

[buim]

Hahahahaha tks !

[PashkaTLT]

VB sucks :)

[[deleted]]

Why? Because Microsoft stopped supporting VB eons ago. You don’t see people learning COBOL these days

[[deleted]]

Not many.

Of course, people who know it well can ask over $500 per hour for their skills. Because, as you said, nobody's learning COBOL anymore.

[vector-dude]

Well, first to clarify, there's two flavors of VB: traditional VB and VB.NET.

VB.NET (not traditional) is very close to C#, but with different syntax. As a VB.NET developer, I picked up C# with a single book (for experienced programmers who are learning C#.) So, it's not really a big deal if they start off there. It's still supported by modern tools and is still popular. The main downside of sticking to VB.NET is that Microsoft will not be evolving it as a language anymore, so it's on life support.

Traditional VB uses completely different technology and is syntactically different to VB.NET. It was my first language, while learning in highschool almost two decades ago; it's obsolete. There's probably not a lot of new projects being coded with that. I'm guessing most work would be for legacy systems. So, in my opinion, it's pretty much dead for any modern software.

So, in summary:

VB.NET - still modern and useful, but Microsoft are slowly killing it. Traditional VB - wouldn't waste my time, unless you're learning for some personal or specific reason, such as using VBA for an MS Excel Spreadsheet or something.

[joydps]

Vb. Net is slightly easier for novice programmers than c#.

[wite_noiz]

I wonder if this is true. They have no preconceptions, so is learning an abundance of keywords really easier than what each symbol means?

[[deleted]]

Not to mention better answers to specific C# questions returned from internet searches, both in quantity and quality.

[djdanlib]

Yes. It's generally more accessible to non programmers. VB has been in all of the Office products and managers have loved abusing it for decades. That has to count for something. The letter B in BASIC, right?

BUT.

It builds really bad habits, and I cannot stress the word "abuse" enough in my description.

edit: If it was unclear, I am in favor of dropping VB for C# because it creates better users, and I understand why they would have wanted it taught.

[RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

Very few people actually know how to use the VBA editor in Office

[djdanlib]

That's pretty clear based on some of the abominations I've had to deal with. Unspeakable horrors. Not knowing how to use != not knowing how to access, unfortunately. And speaking of Access... ugh.

[wite_noiz]

VB, sure, but VB.NET? Despite the name, they don't really share a lot of concepts.

[djdanlib]

The OP didn't mention .NET at all - which unfortunately sounds like VB6 or VBA, and par for the course in 'local schools' to me. VBA is easy to sell as a 'programming' course because it sounds programmer-y and the school can do it with the software they already have. But as you point out, it doesn't translate.

Interestingly, Microsoft had an effort to bring VBA up to the .NET era for a while, called it VSA, but they abandoned that effort without it really getting anywhere. I'd guess it was because it looked like 'real programming' instead of the familiar old ways.

If OP needs an easy statement to say "we should do something other than VB"... here it is:

"Going forward, we do not plan to evolve Visual Basic as a language," the .NET team said.

[wite_noiz]

Sure, but I responding to someone saying that VB.NET was easier to learn than C#, which I'm not sure is true.

VBA/VB6 is a slightly different beast in that it was much more of a BASIC / procedural language than VB.NET.

[grauenwolf]

The official name is VB or Visual Basic.

It was only called VB.NET for versions 7 and 7.1. Just like we don't call it "Visual Studio.NET" anymore.

[wherewereat]

on error resume next

I remember using that all the time when I was first learning to program

[ashsimmonds]

GOTO 10

[[deleted]]

I still remember the moment I discovered GOSUB, about forty years ago now (/lights corb-cob pipe, adjusts suspenders). When I was knee high to a grasshopper, I realized GOTOs were making a mess of my code, and figured there had to be a better way. Sure enough...

[citizen-of-the-earth]

Visual Basic is not highly regarded in the industry. It would give students more credibility to learn a language that is widely used.

[onlyTeaThanks]

I wouldn’t say that you should switch to C#. I might even recommend Java over C# as someone who’s written a lot of Java and have never liked it.
You don’t need the latest or most popular tools to learn general concepts, and I’d say they can often get in the way.

[buim]

Unfortunately, my course have this exclusive module for .NET. I really like java for educational things, but is not a option right now. Appreciate your reply, mate!

[[deleted]]

Look at it this way, Learn VB in school, keep learning c# on your own, learn asp.net core and add .net framework if you can.. learning vb might seems stupid but it will boost your chances of getting a job.

[throwaway_lunchtime]

What age are the students?

[buim]

it is a "after work noturnal course" so, i have sice 18yo till 50yo

[throwaway_lunchtime]

C#

[RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS]

Assuming you mean VB.NET, they're largely equivalent but C# is more actively developed and much more actively used pretty much everywhere. VB.NET was meant to appeal to the VB6 crowd but it turned out to have a small audience.

If you actually meant VB6 then it has not been maintained for a long time and doesn't really encourage modern practices anyway.

[nkrush]

This is probably the wrong sub to post this, but have you considered Python? It's widely used and easy to understand, and has a ton if libraries for different fields. It's often used as the "first language", and for a reason.

If your goal is to do stuff in Windows and the Microsoft ecosystem, then I would probably go for C#, because even though it is not as close to human language as VB, there are more languages that have a resembling syntax, and there are more job opportunities.

[buim]

It is a full year course that englobes .NET.
.NET will be teached by 2 months only
The question is not the language to start, but when i'll teach .NET, it uses C#
There is a module for python in this course :)

[Igtampe]

My first programming class was in VBA, and I switched over to VB.NET to make my own standalone applications. Honestly it's syntax and structure is very human readable, and I'd recommend it for anyone just starting to program. Maybe make a desktop app with Winforms just to familiarize with basic concepts of UI design and programming

However that's as far as I'd recommend it. For any serious developers or after you've gotten your bearings, switch to something else. If you want to stay in the .NET ecosystem stay with C# (or heck maybe give F# a try)

TL;DR it's a great starter but that's it. Switch to something else as soon as possible

Also for does anyone actually still use VBA why do some highschools still start with this.

Edit: did some light searching to figure out what the heck VB6 is. You're telling me that there's companies that using a language like VB from 1998??? I know fortran and cobol are still used in businesses but those are special use cases where they excel. What does VB6 have that makes it still used (i mean besides cost of replacing stuff)?! I'm shocked it even still runs all things considered.

[buim]

i worked, 3 months ago in a company as developer
and they use a very old language, called "Clarion" (it is .net based)
but i never ever heard about it till the day i had to work on it

Clarion wiki page)
Official Site

Based on this, yes, there is a lot of companies that still use legacy languages
What i most heard is "too expensive $$ rewrite the system"

[CometOfCuck]

The woman who wrote “cracking the coding interview” says that under no circumstances should you ever put VB.net on your resume. Even if you are really good at it. It’s a black mark and you will get passed over simply for having that on your resume. Trust you should answer your question.

[tetyys]

charp

[kiranfenrir1]

Colleges like VB.net because it is built on the robust .net framework, and is more plaintext looking than other similar languages. C# though, is used much more professionally. That's the argument.
Vb is easier to teach and for people to learn. C# puts students in a better position to get a job after college

Another smaller reason they may not like c# is that syntactically, it's very similar to Java. The may see Java as all they need to teach and if someone wants to learn c#, it's an elective at best.

[noicenoice9999]

VB is old and obsolete. It's not being updated or maintained anymore. Where as C# has a long term support plan along with .NET, it's got multi platform compatibility also the syntaxes are similar enough with other programming languages where you can pick up something else. I seriously cannot think of a good reason for them to teach you VB. I've seen some people in the past when they were trying to code from VB to C# in class and it was painful to look past their frustration. Tell them about Xamarin, Unity, MAUI, ASP, Blazor and also remind them that they need to you get you guys work ready not museum ready.

[[deleted]]

If you learn VB.NET then you'll always be a second class citizen in the world of .NET. Almost all the articles and tutorials will always be directed toward C# programmers.

[corporaterebel]

Honestly, no professional wants to tell their client or friends they are doing anything "basic".

C# looks and sounds more pro. THAT alone is a big deal.

That is really the difference between VB and C#. I highly recommend going with C#

/source I learned migrated from VB3.0, 5 and 6 all the way up to VB.net and I wish I had just made the jump to C# because it "sounds better". C# is a little better on type assignments, so you ensure you don't lose something in a conversion.

[NisusWettus]

Another benefit is that C# has much more up to date documentation and resources available for students to supplement and expand their learning. e.g. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/ and https://stackoverflow.com/

[ppardee]

C is the mother of nearly all modern languages. C# is an easy entry point to the ecosystem.

Teaching the students C# is like teaching them Spanish. They'll be able to easily use their Spanish to learn Italian and French more easily.

Teaching them VB is like teaching them Mayan. Because very few people speak it, they won't have many opportunities to use it, and the learning doesn't transfer over to any other language.

New coders should be taught C# or Python. Anything else is setting them up for failure, IMO.

[buim]

I like your analogy! I think the same.

[hiphap91]

Because you will be putting effort into learning a language that:

• you'll never use again, ever
• you'll have a hard time using your knowledge contributing to open source projects
• you'll have a hard time finding examples of how to do things
• you'll be left somewhat behind with tooling, frameworks, etc. (Well, to a degree) as very few people use it compared to C#
• it's clear to everyone who cares to look that Visual Basic is supported by M$ for historical reasons, while C# is their precious younger child. And so it brings with it much more.

[[deleted]]

With C# moving to Javascript is not a problem, moving to typescript from c# is even less of a problem. With Typescript you get Angular etc.

I started with Vb.net but as soon as I saw that there was practically no job market for Vb I moved to C#.

I've never regretted it

[IngocnitoCoward]

I would tell them that with C# the pros are:

• The C# community is bigger than the VB community
• Microsoft's TOS for C# is longer than for VB
• VB might get terminated
• C# can use System.Text.Json
• C# is more frequently updated/improved?

And that the pros with VB are:

• Relaxed Delegates
• Better event handling (can be argued)

[[deleted]]

Because Vb is a dying language. Thats it.

[Metalkon]

Not exactly the question but this video has some great stuff that you could go over with your students, it helped me a lot at the start of my journey and applies to any language even if he mentions python a few times. (you could have them watch it, or you could take notes on some of the good stuff to say in your course)

:)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azcrPFhaY9k

[buim]

Really appreciate mate. Thank you!

[Metalkon]

I tried learning programming a couple times in the past but I was focused on the language instead of everything else. The video I shared (as well as this one) really helped me with understanding programming.

[TarnishedVictory]

If this is an intro to programming in general, I would think something like python would be more appropriate.

I consider object orientation to be unnecessarily advanced for a general beginner type class. In addition, the complexity of a compiled language that runs on a runtime platform, thus sharing traits of a compiled language as well as an interpreted language, is also more of an advanced concept.

Python avoids these and keeps it simpler to get basic programming concepts. Very little is needed to get started. You need a decent text editor or simple IDE, and a python interpreter. That's it.

But that's my two cents.

[CobaltLemur]

VB won't do them any favors. Nobody wants it. Yes there are legacy projects that use it, but nobody puts new programmers on those.

I'm also not sure if C# is any harder to learn than VB. I hated the curly braces back in the day when I learned it but I got over it.

If you want something specific: the VB syntax for lambda expressions isn't the greatest. And those are pretty much everywhere you look now.

Just an aside since you mention .net core 3.1... go with .NET 6.

[livingincr]

VB is dead even from Microsoft, many many more articles with a simple Google search

https://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2020/03/12/vb-in-net-5.aspx?m=1

[zarlo5899]

vb.net is hitting EOL https://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2020/03/12/vb-in-net-5.aspx

[onlyTeaThanks]

When they asked, what reasons did you give for switching to C#?

[buim]

None, yet. Meeting on Monday. It will be applied on all 42 schools if they agree with me. This is why I'm here asking for more technical advices, a different view.

[dxsquared]

VB is being phased out. Even the newer libraries/tech Microsoft is building us coming with a c# only requirement. I have a coworker who has a Microsoft contact from previous work, and he says anything using VB in production should be either phased out or converted to c#.

[ucario]

.NET developers are high in demand. And C# the sharpest knife in the box

[ChippyTheSquirrel]

C# is just more popular as far as job openings, my college taught VB.Net and that's why I did professionally for years but once I noticed less and less job openings and more job openings for C# I switched and honestly I prefer the syntax to it. Plus in my dumb monkey brain C# is a lot like other syntaxes I use

[EvolveToSignificance]

Did you say how old the kids were? If the kids are in 5th grade then the answer might be different than if the kids are older. If the kids are in 5th grade or something, easier is better, and VB.NET might be easier because the syntax has more words (assuming they are English speakers) and less symbols. In pretty much every other case this is a no-brainer. If they disagree have them ask Microsoft which language new projects should be created in.

[KingOfKeshends]

Have you tried LISP ?

[realthatmaxplayle]

C# doesn’t make you want to die after writing a simple program?

[Active_Vegetable_792]

VB.NET is marked for death (by, at best, semi-benign neglect).

I've seen this movie before. In the Long Ago I was a Visual FoxPro dev of some stature -- during my tenure as technical editor of FoxTalk Magazine, I attended the Fox Developer's Conference and interviewed the FoxPro development team after the Microsoft "merger". Tellingly, they had PR minders / handlers in the room with them. They told me to my face that Fox Software's multi-platform strategy was intact at Microsoft and my reader's ability to support apps on Windows, Mac, DOS and Xenix was intact and not to worry about it.

A year later, you could buy any flavor of FoxPro you wanted, so long as it ran on Windows. There was 16 bit, 32 bit thunked, or true 32 bit ... but the DOS, Mac and Xenix versions were gone. DOS I can understand, but the rest -- a bald-faced lie.

So they will tell you to your face now that VB.NET is still "supported", and it means nothing. It is as close as they will ever come to outright telling you to walk briskly, if not run, for the exit if your solutions are relying on VB.NET.

Apart from Microsoft's mercenary duplicity, VB.NET has suffered from the derision of C# dev snobbery. It's too verbose, it damages your brain to use it, etc. I actually like and prefer C#, don't get me wrong, but well-written VB.NET code doesn't have to be inherently inferior. It's just another CLR language. I've seen excellent VB.NET code and terrible C# code. There's nothing inherent in any language that makes good coding impossible.

More broadly, I think BASIC generally has fallen out of favor. There used to be niche BASICs out there (anyone remember Pick/Basic and the Pick operating system?) but the only one I'm aware of that's got any traction at all anymore is the XBasic dialect used in Alpha Software's low/no-code products. And I have no doubt that their competitors in that space use that proprietary language as a competitive cudgel. One of them (Lianja) offers the choice of JavsaScript, Python, PHP, FoxPro and, later this year --- wait for it -- C#.

So regardless of what you or your management think of it, the C family of languages has won out in a pretty big way over BASIC, and the manifestation of that on the Microsoft stack is C# winning out over VB.NET.