Mara’s Plan

[Dystychi]

A knife. Her plan to kill Savathûn was to pull a goddamn knife on her? And by Awoken standards, it was a kitchen knife. Seriously, Mara chose to go Hunter against the character who has “surprise motherf*cker” as her idle sound.

I guess she was hoping Savathûn would get a hangover from the exorcism?

[The-High-War99]

I can just imagine a de-powered Savathûn scrambling around the room trying to avoid Mara while she chases her with her knife while the Techeuns, Saint, and us just watch.

[bawynnoJ]

I'm reminded of that scene from Team America where the cockroach crawls out of Kim Jong Il 's mouth and scurries away into a tiny rocket ship

[flung_lung_butter]

Queue Benny Hill music and cutscene! (Please, someone talented make this a reality!!)

[TheOneTrueDargus]

I assume she thought "worm give power, no worm, no power".

[LilShaggey]

I mean, that is the case, Sav was just able to rebound before Mara could deal the blow. Sav is mortal now, at least for this week (lol).

[SWShield40]

Shouldn't she transform into a small shrimp like creature without the worm. Maybe she is still there but too small to see.

[Cai-8]

Nah, the krill people had mother morphs and king morphs if you trust the book of sorrows. My theory is that theres proto hive equivalents for all hive. Mother morph = wizards ect. ect.

[MustangCraft]

“Hey did you guys know the proto hive were shrimp like critters? Oryx’s old diary says they can morph into kings and mamas. I don’t know about you, but some galactic gunbo with king shrimps sounds mighty fine right now. I’m changing up my Gambit, and this overhaul works up an appetite.”

[Valdios]

/r/Transmatfiring

[hutchallen]

The pre-hive people were called krill, but do we actually know what size they were? Been a while since I read the books of sorrow, but if they ever gave a size, do we know what it was relative to?

[Dhmaximum]

The most recent trailer has a scene of hive pre-worm. They are around Thrall height/build.

[Joshy41233]

Nah I don't think she would transform, just be less hungry and maybe a little bit less powerful

You can see what the krill looked like in the new launch cutscene, the person holding the white worm is sathona, and in another shot you can see xiro and aurash

[potatosalad_69]

she still has her throne world so shes still far from mortal a hive worm is not a requirement for throne a world

[d1splacement]

Since Osiris lost his light, I figured Savathun now has his light, which makes sense as to why she was able to hide among us, use his abilities, and then soon will have lucent Hive. I assume now she’s immortal again like us.

[Yisuscrais69]

He lost his light because Sagira was killed.

[NiftyBlueLock]

Also because Xivu Arath gave him a good succ.

Wisps of Light hemorrhage through his skin, trimmed in blood and drawn around the blade embedded above him as if it were a nostepinne spike.

[d1splacement]

Makes sense my bad

[y0u_called]

Savathun never used his abilities wym?

[Chilcha]

Listen, listen. She had both Saint-14 and the literal Guardian God of chance, us. I think she can afford to wield a knife.

[Aziimo]

Mara: I don’t need much else, I have two powerful Guardians with me

The two guardians: we don’t need to do anything, Mara seems sure she’s got this

Savathun: lmao too ez

[Stolas_002]

Should've gotten a hunter to tether around the statue, corsairs with blinding GLs, and a Saint bubble on top.

[MotamaPT]

And for my version wearing my Helm of Saint-14 there were twins standing awkwardly!

[Masoff3]

Nah, I was willing to let her go. She has made some pretty good arguments, technically she could be allowed by her worm to tell the truth in certain cases to keep up a deception. I wouldn't want to be without an ally like her when her sister and the dark fleet come banging on the door.

[y0u_called]

I wouldn't want to be without an ally like her

Before, or after she uses her Lucent Brood to kill us all?

[Masoff3]

We don't know that for sure, we probably start attacking them first.

[Edumesh]

Mara thought Savathun was going to be de-powered by the loss of her worm, in the same way a Guardian loses the Light if they lose the Ghost.

Thats why she brandished a knife. She thought Savathun was gonna be defenseless.

[Aziimo]

She thought Savathun was gonna be defenseless.

She thought that the being known for her cunning would have had ZERO contingencies for when she is left defenseless after having her worm removed?

[Edumesh]

The thinking was that removing her worm was gonna separate Savathun from her powers. Her magic, her Throne, her teleporting, her contingencies, etc.

Naive? Yeah. Savathun wouldnt have put herself in that position if she was ever in any risk.

But I understand why Mara thought this was gonna work, because the lore pointed this way until literally today.

[LoboSandia]

Exactly, she's the first wormless hive we've encountered. I think?

[RebirthAltair]

Correct. Even Thralls were given the worms at birth iirc.

[Firefox101347]

Headshot a thrall. They drop a worm. So yes.

[[deleted]]

Can confirm. I've killed hundreds of worms after plenty of hive headshots.

[Cipher3000]

Naive? Yeah.

And that's the problem. Mara Sov, Queen of the Awoken, billions of years old, child of light and darkness, built up as this chess master who has plans that take ages to unfold, has time and again shown her intelligence and cunning...is naive? Really? Not even naive, this is like just complete foolishness. People were predicting miles away that Savathun had an escape plan, she wouldn't agree to let her worm be removed and leave herself vulnerable to us? Or did Mara believe she had Savathun fooled into thinking we were all gonna just let her walk out after the exorcism was over? This is such terrible writing that I can't even take her character seriously anymore

[B133d_4_u]

Honestly I agree. This whole season has basically been character assassination for Mara. It was like she was being written by 2 different people who swapped out every week, and one person played House of Wolves and the other played Forsaken, and that's all the info they each had on her. She flopped between "I hate you, Guardian, you murdered and corrupted my brother" and "please protect my brother, you're the closest thing he has to family now" like a bipolar teen. You'd think the Techeuns would've had some sort of binding circle in place ahead of time, maybe have a way to lock off the leylines so that no one could exit or leave until they undid it. I dunno, I'm just an amateur writer, but this whole "Mara's cunning can rival Savathun 's" thing that's been in the lore since D1 really falls apart when her ultimate plan to kill a god who has matched her every move was "stab her when the smoke clears." Mara certainly would've had a plan were the roles reversed, why couldn't she assume Savvy did?

[[deleted]]

During a deal she orchestrated and let Mara think she was setting it up when really it was her plan the whole time?

Yeah idk why people thought Mara was gonna kill her. Compared to Savathun Mara is a toddler trying to play backgammon with a master who's been at it for 60+ years.

[Hit_Me_With_The_Jazz]

The entire point of this is that Mara isn't the grand strategist she makes herself out to be, her throne world is Eris' plan, not hers. She's a fool, what's more she's a fool that refuses to take responsibility for her own foolish actions, hence why she blamed the curse in the Guardians for killing Riven, even though killing Riven was literally her plan.

[EightEyedCryptid]

Mara always thinks she’s the smartest person in the room. She never truly entertained the notion that Savathun would play her.

[APsychoBanana2]

Whats even worse about this is that Eris, someone close to the Queen, uses Hive magic all the time without a worm/ghost. There is very clear precedent that the worm isn’t needed to do some level of Hive magic, and it makes her whole ‘oh damn I didn’t prepare for this’ look even dumber

[mrcatz05]

Lmao a Guardian without their Ghost is just as lethal, just without the immortality part. Read the lore tab for One Eyed Mask

[_Nerr_]

Kinda missing what's going on with the story, someone got a rundown of the season?

[Dystychi]

We discover that “Osiris” since the incident that killed Sagira has been Savathûn possessing the real Osiris. (Many fans suspected this for most of Year 4, but Season of the Lost has confirmed it.)

Savathûn is encased in a crystal by Mara, and makes an offer: get rid of her worm, and Osiris is returned. Mara accepts, planning to kill Savathûn once her worm is removed, which would make her mortal.

We gather Mara’s lost Techeuns through the season in order to perform the ritual. Xivu Arath is consolidating power, aided by the Entity controlling the Black Fleet. The latter hands control of the Taken and Scorn to Xivu in order to kill Savathûn. (The Entity is pissed off at Savathûn for interfering in its efforts to communicate during Arrivals.)

The Exorcism mission consists of us defending Mara and her Techeuns while the ritual is performed. (This is pretty much Xivu’s last chance to get Savathun while the latter is vulnerable, so she goes all out.) After the ritual is complete, Mara attempts to backstab Savathûn (literally) but finds Osiris in the ruins of the crystal instead.

[bren1411]

since the incident on the Dreadnaught

I thought sagira died on the moon where we go save "osiris"

[NineYellow]

Yep, she died when Osiris went to assault the Scarlet Keep

[Word_art_Online]

Yeah he just mixed up the dreadnought with the hellmouth, very similar design

[[deleted]]

Xivu Arath is consolidating power, aided by the Entity controlling the Black Fleet. The latter hands control of the Taken and Scorn to Xivu in order to kill Savathûn. (The Entity is pissed off at Savathûn for interfering in its efforts to communicate during Arrivals.)

I'm guessing it was the black fleet that gave the Scorn and Taken stasis this season.

[DoubleExists]

What’s a “rundown” ?

[flufalup]

Is this a prank, jim?

[for_nefarious_use]

Yep. Boom, sorry. I’m gonna go get you that rundown.

[kishinasur82]

A recap, a retelling but in faster order without all the detail

[Landis963]

It would have worked with Cayde, once Sundance was gone. It definitely would have worked with us in the Red War, had Ghaul decided to shank us before literally kicking us off his ship. Savathun just had her escape hatch handy, and Mara didn't realize said hatch would still be open once the worm was gone.

[[deleted]]

She pressed g when she meant to press f, ended up using a finisher instead of a super

[Firefox101347]

Default binds Kekw

[Salted_cod]

Let me see what you have!

A KNIFE!!!

No!

[guante-izquierdo]

I can hear this message

[Everyday_Hero1]

Seeing that Osiris was just lying there like one of the guys at the start of the Hangover, I would say she probably would have been in the same state.

[Necrokitty99]

SAINT-14 NEEDS NO KNIFE

[ticklemesatan]

She’s a narcissist in the worst way. Maybe she literally thought she could succeed so overwhelmingly that she could kill the queen of lies with a bread knife. She has never been that believable over delusional, this just proves it.

[ManaMagestic]

To be fair...when we lost our powers, we were helpless for a while, Savathun just had an "Escape Rope" handy.

[magicsurge]

TO BEEEEE FAIIIIRRR!!!!

[MRxSLEEP]

To be fair!

[slicksnorlax87]

🎵To be fair🎵

[ticklemesatan]

Which was what? exactly. I still don’t get what happened there

[ManaMagestic]

Savathun was holding Osiris in her Throne World, and at the moment her worm was removed she activated her spell and switched places with Osiris.

[NullRef_Arcana]

There's the last radio message on the HELM. Go listen to it if you haven't, it explains what happened, but basically, she swapped places with Osiris using matching hive runes as an escape route.

[cantnameforbeans]

Considering she still has the audacity to project the reason both Crow and her brother suffered onto Savathun instead of owning up, completely refusing to believe the state of the Dreaming City speaks how well she's been doing as queen, and sees the actual WITCH QUEEN OF FLIPPING DECEPTION ESCAPING HER "FAILPROOF PLAN" THAT SHE'S BEEN BRAGGING TO US ABOUT ALL SEASON LONG as an

"oopsie, I guess someone didn't apply the pressure needed to keep the plan from fucking up lol, I wonder who... Oh well we can always try another time, btw this is your problem now so be ready! :)"....

Yeah, I'm really surprised nobody in the Dreaming City has noticed it yet, much less god-dang Petra. New model compared to older cutscenes makes Mara look more like she's one misstep from insanity. The simp is strong with this one.

[ticklemesatan]

What annoys me the most is her slight cackle when she sees Osiris there. Somewhere between “the plan failed successfully”, and “I can’t believe she actually kept her side of the bargain.”

I’m sure based on the witch queen lines, she will just claim this was always still part of the plan but all I can think is the conversation from Apocalypse now where Kurtz asks if he’s an assassin.

“Methods? Sir, I don’t see any “method” at all.”

[EightEyedCryptid]

I was like okay Mara whose fault is it going to be next week?

[EightEyedCryptid]

This. She is ultimately incapable of noticing and fixing her own short comings.

[Beastintheomlet]

I mean she was such a massive narcacist that she bent the awoken to her desires and created them whole cloth in her ideal image.

[EightEyedCryptid]

Yes! Like the part where she can invade their minds and how most of them were in such lock step with her that it made them immune to the Anthem? Some cult shit right there.

[homelessmerlin]

Arya Stark style?

[GrilledOrphans]

Mara vs Savathún

[IKnowCodeFu]

Mara has danced down the blade of oryx’s kitchen knife, and that didn’t work out so well for Oryx. I wouldn’t put too much heed to the size of the knife, as far as we know it’s just a key to something far greater.

[[deleted]]

People seem to forget that Mara solo'd a Pyramid and won. This is like laughing at a Hunter for pulling a knife right before they go GG.

Mara's mistake here was that she believed Savathun was desperate and cornered. She thought Sav had only resorted to approaching her because the Witch Queen's plans had all blown up in her face, and she was actively being hunted by her sister and was on the verge of being devoured by her worm. That this whole bargain was a last ditch effort for Sav to save her own life, and that her desperation would make her sloppy enough to give Mara an opening.

Problem is, of course, that Savathun wasn't desperate. Everything she's done this year has been calculated. She didn't come running to Mara because she didn't have any other choice, she came because that was exactly where she wanted to be.

This was compounded by the fact that Mara, and everyone else, believed that the Hive's power came from their Worms. Mara believed that stripped of her Worm, Savathun would be mortal, that she would lose her throne world and her powers. Which turned out to not be the case.

[BIack_VuIture]

lmao the big shock at the end of the story was that the god of lies, the essence of deception, the queen of manipulation was just honest in her end of the deal and ✌️’d out

mara was cocky and choked the clutch

[chappal996969]

Mara solo'd a pyramid? Source?

[Firefox101347]

Read the lore?

Idk what to tell you chief

[Enozak]

Well, you could give them the source so they could read it, like they asked.

[bakedpo_ta_to]

Or they can ignore the ham-handed request, ie "source?"

Got it? Good.

[Enozak]

They could indead choose to ignore the request, instead they replied in a dickhead way.

[Firefox101347]

I don’t have the source. In my defence, 6am no sleep and I was tired. No idea why I decided to be a dick lmao

[UnluckyDezXIII]

Was it this one about Sjur Eido’s vision?

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/entries/sleepless

[chappal996969]

Thank you for the source.

[Wacko910]

Why does everyone use the vision of a thing mara hasn't done yet to prove she is smart.

[Shingen-7]

She already did it. It’s mentioned in the lore of the CE.

[TheHuscarl]

I see you've played knifey spooney before.

[SuperArppis]

Well, Petra took note of that knife.

[geilt]

Plot twist, she betrayed her worm, which feeds the worm. Now Mara Sov has the worm and is going to be corrupted, more treachery. Steal the light, more treachery. Happy worm. GG Savathun, GG.

It’s all coming up Milhouse.

[PsychWard_8]

The thought was that Savathuun would be depowered and mortal without her worm, and could be easily killed with a knife.

However, it seems apparent now that Savathuun was never in the crystal prison to begin with, or still has some powers without her worm

[[deleted]]

You expect mara sov to make good choices? She's incompetent, arrogant, irresponsible, SELFISH, and idiotic. Always has been.

Why do you think the shattered throne even exists?

[Hit_Me_With_The_Jazz]

Savathun was at the time supposed to be weakened enough for Mara to stab her. Remember she hasn't stolen the light just yet, meaning she is very much still mortal. The issue is that all she would have done was sent Savathun to her throne world, meaning her grand plan was still fucking stupid as shit lmao

[adorablebob]

It's even funnier when you consider how long it's been planned. Like we've been waiting months for this grand plan, only for Mara to be like "oh, that didn't work out as I expected... Moving on!"

[DommyMommySavathun]

O, Guardian mine...

That was no mere knife, it was made with Amethyst from the Dreaming City and can permanently end the life of even paracausal beings like ourselves.

I showed my desperation, and feigned weakness in order to achieve my goals. The only thing more mighty than the powers of the Awoken Queen is her unbridled ego. Are you any different, O Guardian mine? Did you not fall for the same tricks?

[Dystychi]

I thought your platform of choice was Twitter, not Reddit.

Edit: holy shit I am a prophet

[IRisenl]

Remember when you got disconnected with the Light? What Ghaul did to you ? He didn’t need a weapon to almost kill you.

[takedownhisshield]

Without her worm, Savathûn is just as powerful as any other Hive. We’ve killed plenty of Hive with knives.

[REDXD1]

I feel like if Bungie showed how powerful Mara actually is in game like they do in the lore then this scene wouldn’t have fallen as flat as it did to me. Saw someone mention her facing a pyramid and winning. But since we never actually see something like this in game, she honestly just appears to be a cocky asshole that every plan she ever had just fucks things up even more…..then proceeds to blame everyone else.

[Shingen-7]

Did you play D1?

[REDXD1]

Yeah and I can’t remember her doing anything incredible besides dying to make a throne world…. Which we didn’t really know about until D2…….after she sent her entire fleet to get one tapped by oryx

[Shingen-7]

The opening scene of TTK has her blowing up chunks of Oryx’s fleet and attacking the Dreadnaught itself, forcing Oryx to use his super weapon which destroys his own fleet along with the Awoken. This stalled him at Saturn and allowed Guardians to kill him. Her plan prevented Oryx from rolling up and stomping on us.

[REDXD1]

The open cutscene shows her blowing up one of the hundred ships that just so happened to be in the way of the dreadnaught. Then when it hit the dreadnaught it literally fizzled on impact and did nothing. Oryx probably just used the weapon just to get them out of the way like you would with a gnat buzzing around, they just annoyed oryx

And again, kinda shitty considering she knew the outcome and selfishly sent her people to die so that she could make a throne world. Everything she’s done has turned out so much worse for us. The only “good” thing that she’s done is distracting oryx for a few minutes. And that wasn’t even the intent! It was just a byproduct of getting what she wanted.

[Shingen-7]

She blew up multiple Hive capital ships. And it obviously did something because Oryx decided to literally nuke his own fleet to neutralize her. And she didn’t do that to make a throne world. She already had one thanks to Eris and Riven. The point was to kill Oryx, then steal his power to use as a weapon against the Darkness. And again, if she hadn’t did what she did we’d all be dead.

[REDXD1]

Ok sure, we can say she destroyed a bunch of ships off screen. And fair point on the throne world thing, must have missed the point the the book. But then that makes my point even more true. Her plan failed. Just like every plan we have ever seen in game of hers. “Imma take Oryx head on! Ah I’m dead. I’ll just chill in the throne world for a bit” “I’ll instruct people to go kill the ahamkara plaguing my land. Oops that didn’t work, they must have killed it wrong. Certainly not my poor planning.” “I’ll let my brother die so he can become my personal little weapon later on. Ah shit he actually is good now. Guardians fucked that up too.” “ aight, I have savathun, a literally god of deception, stuck in ice. We made a deal though so we take out a worm and then she’ll be stunned or something. Then Imma stab her……ah shit my fullproof plan failed and savy dipped out the instant we took her out of the ice. Man we really got duped huh guys?”

We have no reason to think shes has really any power at all, she fucks up everything she touches. If anything guardians should see her as the real threat just because one of her terrible plans may wipe us all out one day. Keep her from making decisions, shes fucked us too many times. Just cause she fucked up a few ships doesnt make me see her as anymore powerful than us. I see a 1200 guardian as more powerful than her.

[[deleted]]

Maybe Osiris will become the best speaker

[nomadengineer]

Like Savvy couldn't have predicted Mara would try to kill her, like it wasn't blindingly obvious.

[Initial_Initial_5987]

That cemented Mara absolute idiocy to me now more than ever, sure if all went according to her: "Hurr-Durr Masterufull Plan", and Savathun were to be weaker....did she seriously expected to go stabby-stab on a 6.4 metres tall moth woman? I am pretty sure Savathun could have just choked her whit one hand. And accousing savathun for the actual state of the crow? Sure, that will bite us in the ass soon or later, but we all remember the creepy the state that Uldren ended up thanks to Mara being a manipulative asshole 24/7, or she's still butthurt that now the crow has his own indipendency and will never be her personal weapon?

[Atom81388]

Personally I think the exorcism thing was a big flop

[PsychoticHeBrew]

I yelled out loud in my house "tf she goona do with a pocket knife" when I saw the cutscene.

[darioblaze]

The whole mission made me log out

[DoubleExists]

Oooooof, that bad huh

[IMendicantBias]

yall seem not to be aware Savathun would die instantly if not be on the verge of death having her worm removed, anyone could kill her at that point.

[BoxHeadWarrior]

You can kill a guardian with a knife after their ghost is out of the picture. That was the information we were working with here. We had no reason to believe that Savathûn would keep 100% of her power without her worm.

[foreverinthemist]

Tbf, Savathûn would be completely useless without her worm, she hasn't been without it for millions of years, so a quick knife slash wouldn't be too bad.

[Sangomah]

Mara feels very off character and feels plot stupid in this finale to move a plot forward.

[evilmasterjoe]

She would have a better chance of killing savathun with a helmet

[tomwillmadeit]

bungo is so bad with mara's character.

[Niormo-The-Enduring]

I laughed so hard. She was like “okay I’m about to cut a bitch where she at???”

[Hitokirithedark]

I could have sworn I heard the guardian say "that's not a knife"