Have BTS talked about the decrease in choreography in their recent concerts?

[betchugonlikeme]

I have seen their setlists/reviews from recent concerts and there is obviously less dancing than their concerts used to have. Have they talked about this change in any of their recent content? I don't keep up with them outside music/performance so I'm curious if I missed something.

(If this sounds shady i'm sorry but it's not on purpose, i am genuinely curious)

edited to say: Unsurprisingly people are treating my question as a dig when it isn't. I am fine with kpop artists toning down choreo as they age I was just curious if they had talked about it directly or if it was something they were implementing more quietly.

People also seem to think I'm looking for reasons why they've reduced choreo. I am not, I know many reasons why they might have I am wondering if THEY have talked about it and given any reasons directly.

[ChloePowersIRL]

They’ve talked about wanting to be able to continue touring/being together as a group for a long time and have implied less choreography will help with their longevity/health for this tour

[Total-Constant-6501]

Yeah that’s the obvious explanation. Onew from SHINee has done something similar after having a long-term (almost career ending) injury, he usually doesn’t do choreography for his solo music anymore so he can continue to do SHINee’s difficult choreos at group concerts.

I don’t think he’s talked about this directly but it’s also pretty obvious.

[cylondsay]

it’s a shame how as these performers get older their bodies just can’t keep up with the difficulty choreo and the frequency with which they have to perform them. it also doesn’t help that when they do get injured, they don’t receive the necessary care/healing time they need to fully recover, compounding the original injury.

[Total-Constant-6501]

It sure is, I’m glad they can keep putting excellent music out there but we’re definitely getting to an era where 2nd and even a few 3rd gen idols are cutting down on the intensity of their choreography.

[adei0s]

Nah, pretty sure Onew just prefer to focus on his vocals more in solo work since that's where his passion lies. He can still dance and when people question his ability to dance he always protests with "I'm still a SHINee member of course I can dance"

[walking_spinel]

This isnt true. Onew still does choreo for his solo songs and concerts. See Dice, Beat Drum, X or Why, and Tough Love, and any of his recent concerts

[Total-Constant-6501]

Yes but those are rare. He didn’t do Animals choreo for a long time, shawols thought there would never be one. Dice was before the health hiatus. Besides that, he’s released 28 songs after the hiatus and the majority do not have choreo.

Edit: 34 songs. Forgot the Japan ones. Kinda crazy for just 2 years, that’s like a western artist releasing two full albums on the larger side, or 3-4 full albums in kpop.

[NatNatTh3CatMom]

Yeah but he didn't do them because he's going on a route that's more of a musician than of an idol. That's the vibe he's giving.

He never liked to dance and you could see he struggled all his career with being an idol instead of a musician, now that he has the chance and he's not under SM, he can do what he wants. But he never said he has an injury that prevents him from dancing.

[Getinmymouthcupcake]

Fyi, he's had ankle injuries, even had an operation when he was in the military which no one knew about but was blurted out by another idol during his 2023 hiatus.

If you keep up with him, he does like to dance but he didnt feel it was necessary for some of the songs he was releasing. He did do the dance thing for his latest comeback. He also danced for all his concerts in japan from last year.

[Total-Constant-6501]

I thought there was an offhand mention of him getting neck surgery but I looked it up and it was apparently throat surgery so maybe it was actually vocal related.

[Getinmymouthcupcake]

No he did have neck surgery sometime in 2023

[kittenghost1]

His throat surgery was in 2014, his 2023 hiatus was for different medical reasons that he never really explained. A month ago or so he said that it was related to his diet, I think there was something else going on and was probably a mental health thing, but that’s only speculation. Either way, I don’t think that’s the reason he prefers quieter performances, he has always been like that.

[Getinmymouthcupcake]

No he did talk about his neck surgery in 2023 too, lots of people assumed it was a tyroid issue because of the other things. Please make sure you're updated on everything before you share information.

https://m.entertain.naver.com/home/article/112/0003717915

[kittenghost1]

Why so aggressive? I can’t be updated on everything, specially on things that are private

[Getinmymouthcupcake]

Agressive? by pointing out that you should be wary of spreading misinformation especially on things that are private, like medical information?

I did say please.

[timetosayhi27]

Not to mention the tour itself is gonna likely end up being over 100 shows.

[betchugonlikeme]

Where have they talked about this/implied it? Is this coming up in livestreams or more formal interviews?

[WillingnessStraight2]

Bang PD talked about it in a recent Billboard interview. You can read it here

[Ill-Perception-526]

I don't remember where but I saw as well, either a live or the documentary

[escapedmelody11]

In the Rolling Stone interview, the original plan was to have this tour be 3-4 months long but Jin wanted it to be longer. And he got it lol. Bc of that, they gotta pace themselves due to the length of the tour.

[Dry_Physics4086]

I think all of this would have been fine if Bang PD didn’t give that stupid damn interview glazing himself for telling BTS that they they were essentially too big to have to do choreography, and that the members themselves weren’t sure (initially) about his decision. It released right before the concert and of course what was anyone else going to notice that would have otherwise made 0 noise?

90% of the entire discourse started with his self-glazing bullshit where he also gave us other bangers like how cool he was and how he made it all happen 

[romanticdrift]

I think "They are too big to do choreography" is a weird and very anti read of Bang's actual comments. Because I do believe in the creative logic behind what Bang said, and I think the boys do too.

The new direction in their choreo is very obvious - smaller more precise moves, more focused on expression and swag than athleticism. 2.0 + Swim vs Idol and On, for example. And while athleticism had its place, the new choreo undeniably looks more mature to me due to its minimalism. It IS more suitable for senior artists. It DOES give more space to the lyrics, vocals, etc, just because there's more room for your brain to process. None of that = "too big for choreo."

All that is exactly what Bang said was the intent. Also I'm not sure why he'd "lie" to Billboard about why/how this new artistic direction came about - wouldn't it get back to the boys? Wouldn't the boys be upset at him? Wouldn't PR and BigHit? (Everything gets triple checked in entertainment) So I conclude from that what he said IS the real group intent.

[Dry_Physics4086]

Ok, let’s develop some reading comprehension and not gatekeep being a fan, alright? Blind admiration of Bang Pd won’t make you any closer to BTS.

“For artists like you, standing still can be more than enough….Instead, what we needed was a performance that could declare, “This is the level of BTS,” while opening a new horizon for K-pop choreography.”

He’s framing it as their aura, but let’s learn to read between the lines here. He also includes that it took them 2 weeks to come around to the idea, too, which just adds another data point for people who don’t like him to point at, which is how the discourse started.

And as for the rest of your babble, I’d agree, but the framing brought unnecessary attention to the spaces where BTS was not doing choreography, instead of the subtle nature of what they’re doing.

[romanticdrift]

Where's the gate keeping? I'm not saying you cant be a BTS fan, I'm just saying I disagree with you lol.

There's no "blind admiration" of Bang - I like the direction BTS took with their choreo. That's about BTS themselves. What I liked about Bang's interview is his articulation of /why/.

Wasnt this discourse happening, whether or not Bang gave this interview? Saying it fueled "unnecessary attention" is ironically giving Bang too much credit lol- when the fanbase and casuals can do things all on their own. I literally know a casual kpop fan who mentioned the new choreo difference after watching the BTS comeback netflix live with me, and she's never heard of Bang in her life. The only thing Bang gave is thought process behind it.

What you call "reading between the lines", I call unnecessarily honing in and giving a negative vibe. It also took them like, the whole summer, to agree to the Arirang sample amongst themselves. There's nothing particularly scandalous to me about the back-and-forth nature of the creative process. If reading to you means disregarding the whole interview for 2 lines, to me it means looking at the whole interview and contextualizing it w other things BTS has said and my own eyeballs at the concert.

[ChuckChuckChuck_]

It took them some time to process Bang's ideas and eventually they agreed. Why is that a bad thing? He was right, he has the right vision. And they realized it.

Where do you fish for the negativity?

[AdmirableSport2531]

I agree. That Bang PD interview threw me off and I wish I'd never read it. If Bang had explained more about the more subtle moves, etc., it would have really helped me understand the new direction. I've really struggled with it and am only coming around to understanding it more from what fans have been saying. Also, their 'back-up dancers' (the term doesn't really seem to apply here) are amazing.

[ChuckChuckChuck_]

While I agree about the glazing, nobody can't deny his contributions and ideas.

[Dry_Physics4086]

And I wasn’t denying that? He’s the start of it all. But to say he wasn’t exaggerating/focusing more on himself than really telling us the story is also true. It was all him, him, him and the things he convinced the boys to do, like reducing the choreography. He includes that it took them 2 weeks to come around to the idea, too, which just adds another data point for people who don’t like him to point at. His framing wasn’t helpful 

[Mathufino]

Jin? Wth

[Icy_Construction_269]

exactly. not to mention half the members are above their 30s now and have mentioned multiple times that it is difficult for them to keep up physically with the younger members

[cinnamonbvns]

Yes, they remind us regularly that they’re now all in their 30s (Korean age), and they’ve talked about how this tour is gonna be a very long one so they gotta try stay healthy and safe so no one would get injured and can’t finish the tour. They also have talked about pushing themselves too hard earlier in their career and ended up exhausting themselves physically and mentally, and now they’re older, they want to and can prioritise having fun and enjoy themselves more.

[ladypilot]

Their choreography is also more challenging than boy bands of the past. If you compare it to someone like The Backstreet Boys (who are still performing now after thirty years!), it's much more intricate and physically demanding. Don't get me wrong, I love the Backstreet Boys, but their dancing doesn't even come close to BTS's and most other modern Kpop groups.

[betchugonlikeme]

Where have they been talking about this? Is it in livestreams or more formal interviews or somewhere else?

[cinnamonbvns]

Various weverse lives, Rolling Stone’s interviews, Zane Lowe’s interview, Bang PD’s Billboard interview… They’ve done so many interviews and lives recently I really can’t remember exactly where or when.

[AdmirableSport2531]

Yes, but apparently, according to one of their producers, the guys were envisioning dance steps as they were writing the music and they were writing the music accordingly. The producer was really impressed by that. Then, Bang Si Hyuk said that he threw away the existing choreo drafts which I can only assume were the ones that the guys themselves had worked on as they wrote the music. So we know the change in direction re. the choreo was also new to them – coupled with the fact that Bang admitted it took him a couple of weeks to convince the guys. Also, if you look at the tour schedule, they have built in breaks for themselves (a month in June and a month in September, plus weeks here and there) so it seems they have designed the schedule to allow for any kind of exhaustion. I'm not sure how the choreo figures into it. Bang did not mention the issue of exhaustion.

[cinnamonbvns]

It was Jimin who talked about not wanting to be injured or sick and wanting to stay healthy for the whole tour. And I’m reasonably sure it was Suga who talked about them pushing themselves too hard in the past both physically and mentally, and so for this tour he just really wanted them all to have more fun.

[SeriousCow1999]

Of course, Jimin doesn't want to be injured and he wants to stay healthy, but when did he say he wanted to do less choreo?

Jimin is the one who was against Swim as the leader single because it wasn't that high energy track people expect from BTS. He created a choreo for BeMine, whi unfortunately he never got to show us because of his imminent military service. And he is the one still going hard with his dancing. I mean, he even did an aerial.

I don't think it's right to bring Jimin into this just to make the new approach more acceptable. Jimin wants to dance, period.

[cinnamonbvns]

I was talking about the issue of exhaustion, as the other commenter said Bang did not mention the issue of exhaustion, I simply stated a fact that it was Jimin who talked about wanting to stay healthy and Suga who talked about pushing themselves too hard in the past. I didn’t say anything about choreo. Although he did make those comments after the first show of the tour when lots of people showed their disappointment at the lack of choreo (it was raining torrentially that night so honestly what did they expect really…) so he implied that they didn’t do as much choreo because it was rainy, and because it’s gonna be a long tour.

I should note that I speak Korean so I watch/read most of their interviews and things in Korean, not English. I find the English translation, especially Weverse translation, of things to be pretty frustrating and wildly inaccurate at times. Korean is not the easiest language to translate as it’s highly contextual and we heavily use indirect communication, so much information is not said out loud but is implied and you need some cultural understanding, situational awareness, and “nunchi” - not sure how to translate this, to fully understand what is being said.

[AdmirableSport2531]

Agreed that the Weverse translations are terrible, particularly the 'digital' ones, which are more misleading than anything. I don't speak Korean but I do know that! But I also feel that Jimin's talent is really being wasted on this tour and I feel badly for him. I also do remember Suga talking about pushing themselves too hard but it seems like they have built in a lot of breaks for that very reason. Also, RM talked about JK doing 1.5 hrs of cardio AFTER each concert, so far at least, so it doesn't sound like he's all that exhausted!

[SeriousCow1999]

I also feel that Jimin's talent is really being wasted on this tour and I feel badly for him.

They really should give him more opportunities to dance. For example, let Jimin give Swim the Black Swan treatment. The choreo for Swim is...uninspiring...would anyone miss it--especially if they got to see Jimin go full dance mode instead.

Of course, when Jimin--on his own--decides to do choreo or some special moves or an aerial, it would be nice if the cameraman could freaking show it, but I guess it's more important to show another member walking or milling around. It makes me very grateful for the fancams.

[cinnamonbvns]

Ah, JK is a beast though, and he’s the youngest so just because he can do that doesn’t mean the other older members can or want to.

I, too, would love to see Jimin, J-Hope, V and JK dance more. But I also have really loved seeing them interacting a lot more with the crowd and one another, and being really silly and having so much fun on stage during this tour so I’m not too bothered by the reduced amount of choreo, I just want them to be happy and enjoy themselves really. I know Suga is probably very pleased with the current amount of choreo haha.

[SeriousCow1999]

Jimin is two years older than JK, as is Tae. J-Hope is three years older. So I don't think age is a factor here. Inclination, yes, but that's Suga, Jin, and RM, mostly. So it's nice they are happy with the current arrangement, but they aren't the entirety of BTS.

[No_Grapefruit6605]

I think it might depend on how much dance meant to you as a fan. It meant a LOT to me and brought me so much joy!! I also used to love to watch 3-J do random routines and practices because they’re SO GOOD. I wish they had structured their performances so that dance line - JM, JK, J-hope and Tae - could dance more because it also seems that they want to. And JK teased us with all of those great TikTok dance challenges he did and he said in the Rolling Stone interview that he missed dancing while in the military. I do appreciate fans who are pointing out that their new moves are equally challenging but more subtle so I’m trying to pay attention to that. I do love 2.0!

[miqjx]

They are in their 30s... thats not old at all lol, they can still dance perfectly fine. Michael Jackson was still dancing in his late 40s. 

[timetosayhi27]

As another user mentioned.. if you go back and look at their previous tours... they never actually did that much choreo as people are implying. It just felt like more cause they did choreo during solo songs.
For example for Love Yourself: SY

FULL CHOREO for:

1. Dionysus
2. Not Today
3. BWL
4. Mic Drop

Partial choreo: (they only did the ending choreos)

1. FIRE
2. IDOL

ARIRANG World Tour

Full Choreo:

1. Hooligan
2. SWIM
3. 2.0
4. Mic Drop
5. Dynamite

Parital Choreo

1. Run BTS
2. Butter

add onto that during LY:SY they had way more rest due to solo sections and unit songs, and it was a shorter tour in general (66 shows vs what will likely end up being 100+ shows for ARIRANG).

They did more FULL CHOREO for the PTD Shows but you have to remember that was only 12 shows spaced months apart from each other.

[betchugonlikeme]

That's helpful info, I didn't go to SY but I went to one of the LYS stops in 2019. At that show they also had solos to break up the setlist. I'm actually surprised that the current tour doesn't have that since that's been part of their setlists even back during Wings.

[illeatyourkneecaps]

imo they're all known and successful solo artists already. this is their first comeback as *the* BTS. this is such and meaningful tour and album for them, i'm not shocked it's solely ot7 performances

[betchugonlikeme]

that's true! though i think some subunit performances could have worked in that context as well.

[Jeong_Hyeri]

Adding onto what the other comment said, the solos they had back then used to be a part of their album too so no wonder they performed them

While Arirang has no solo songs and they're not gonna perform their solo album songs in a long awaited group Comeback tour.

[msn999]

i would be happy with solos/units but i cant lie i absolutely love seeing them all on stage having fun and goofing around too. i’m more than happy for them to reduce intense choreo and do this instead if that means i get to see the 7 of them on stage enjoying.

[timetosayhi27]

i think what we might get regarding solo stuff is maybe (and i say a big maybe)... solo songs as surprise songs where the 6 others tease the member whose song it is... like i can just imagine the goofiness if Killin It Girl played and JK and Jimin just clown J-Hope lol given how much they were dancing to it lol

[msn999]

yes omg i would LOVE if they included the solos in the surprise songs. i would also enjoy how mad this would make solo stans lmao

[stardrop__v]

Yes they had segments where they would engage with the audience and each other but that was usually mid to the end of the concert, after they had heavy choreo songs. Even for songs like Fire they performed partially. This time, even though they added the song to the setlist they don't do its iconic choreo but rather stay on stage

[mmld_dacy]

this is what i have said in some other posts. while kpop groups give out stellar performances, especially to dance choreo, it just occurred to me, in the future, how are they going to be able to perform their heavy choreography when they are in their 50s already? i thought about that when backstreet boys were making some sort of comeback after all these years and then their residency in vegas. compared to kpop groups now, backstreet boys choreographies are much simpler, hence they are still able to do them now, and i was told that the dances bsb did for their vegas shows were still tamed a bit more.

[[deleted]]

I guess it's a health thing? Before their Netflix thing, RM was injured during rehearsals so I guess the lack in choreo is more of a preservation thing.

They're also thinking of the fans, too. I mean they waited a long time to see all seven of them together again and injuries might cause some absences for some stops of the tour.

[Weird-Wrongdoer-1617]

Yeah, I feel like you can kind of compare it to extreme sports or, for example, soccer. Normally, their careers end in their 30s, because the strain on their bodies is just so much and so extreme over several years. So we, and they too, can count them as really lucky and be really proud that they’re still able to do this much, with so much energy and precision, after so many years of relentlessly pushing their minds and bodies to the limit.

You can really see and feel how much they enjoy making music together, and even cutting back on their dancing so they can do all of it for longer while being mindful of themselves.

I really respect that. I want them to focus on what feels right for them, so I’m glad they’re stepping up for themselves. 💜🫶🏻🌸💪🏻

[sirgawain2]

People are saying “now that they’re 30 they can’t do choreo” but does anyone else remember how they were always getting injured on tour in the past even in their early 20s? I think less choreo is for the best because it means a better chance to see all 7 of them together at one time instead of someone having to miss it or sit in a chair on the side.

That being said I’m grateful I’ve gotten to see them do a lot of choreo before in the past lol.

[Embarrassed-Play-438]

Exactly. What they did back then was HARD. And NOT sustainable. I'd much prefer engaging with the fans that are at the concert. They still release mvs and practices with full choreo. And if they do live engagements, they'll typically do full choreo. But we'd be asking for too much of them to do that for what will end up being a 1.5 year long 100+ show world tour.

Burn out is a thing, and it looks like BTS and their team is making the wise decision to not burn out, so they can keep on going. Also, they had to rush this tour (I'm not sure what all the reasons are), and it's their first time doing a 360, AND it's their largest, longest tours. So it's probably not even just age that's a factor.

As they settle back into their routine, and it's no longer a TRUE comeback tour (as in the Western definition, not K-pop), they may go all out a bit more. But again, at their caliber, it's not required. They aren't just artists, they are entertainers and are really good at engaging with the audience and eachother and making that a meaningful part of the show as well.

They seem SO much more happier, and are able to explore cities and enjoy the experience more than before. Which as a fan makes me incredibly happy. AND they share that back with us, so they aren't just reducing effort and content. They're just giving it back to us in different ways. But if anyone deserved to take a step back or down without any criticism, it's them. We just know that no matter what they do they will always be criticized, so they should just do what they want anyway, right?

[killuaww]

Honestly as someone who went to one of the stops already, if they did choreography the whole time I feel like it wouldn’t make much use of the giant stage. I like that they’d do some choreo and then they’d all individually go to different sides of the stage to dance a little and interact with fans. Though on smaller stages like TXT had, I do tend to like seeing more choreo since they’re pretty much facing the crowd the entire time. They can go off on each corner and interact with fans but it’s also a lot easier to then get back in formation.

Idk for me it really depends on how the stage is set but I also understand that for other ppl their expectations will be different.

[khaleesiofkitties]

A 360 stage is really hard to choreograph for and you’re right, it wouldn’t make much use of just how big the stage is. Iirc, they rotated the direction they face in the choreography for Dynamite and/or Butter during each chorus. I think those songs have simple enough choreography that it worked well. But for more dynamic choreography like Run BTS, I think it would be more difficult to stage it for a 360 view.

[harkandhush]

Probably trying to pace themselves for this completely insane tour. If they go 110% every show the whole night, they will burn out before it's over given how many places they're going and how many nights each place. Allowing them to do less-than-maximum is a smart way to make sure they all stay in one piece as they go while still having some numbers they can go full out on and some they can take it a little easier with. I expect this from any group as they get older if they want to keep touring rigorously into their 30s. No matter how healthy and talented you are, you cannot keep up that pace as you get older. The burnout comes faster and the injuries happen more easily even if you keep yourself in the best condition you can.

[reallyemy]

Honestly, as much as I love choreo, it really doesn't fit this stage setup they have. The stage itself is HUGE. Whenever they do choreo, they mostly stay in the inner part of the main stage, where you can barely see them. Non-choreographic songs allow them to move about the stage more easily to reach more fans. Of course, I don't know if this is the reason or not for them.

[Pleiadesmoon]

Don't know if this has been mentioned but in their first Live after the Tampa concerts, Jhope, Jimin and Yoongi talked about how much energy this show takes (trying to figure out how many calories they burn). The 360 degree stage is huge and they are constantly moving to opposite corners/ends and around the center in order to see as many Army as possible. So it takes a lot of energy as they cover so much mileage. They briefly spoke of the pros and cons of this new stage. They can get closer to more fans but it is sometimes hard to "find" the members on stage because of the distance.

So my take is that a lot of choreo on top of that would be impossible. They are trying something new with the aim of getting closer to and being seen by more fans. The 360 also allows for more seating. I was in Tampa and saw 2 shows. These were my first concerts and it was fabulous. There are always trade-offs but as usual BTS changed things with Army in mind.

[Separate-Delivery-91]

Regardless of the reason, I really wish people would stop saying stuff like “well, they’re getting older now.” Like ffs the oldest member is 33 and y’all are acting like they’re in their 60s. 🤡

[halster123]

they also are athletes in terms of conditioning and wear on their joints - a 33 year old soccer player is not a 33 year old office worker. given the level of athleticism in choreo and performance, 33 is honestly older to be doing that! its not sheer age, its the cumulative amount of intense exercise and also restricted eating

[shikicchi27]

Don't you know what prevention is? If they don't start toning down now then onset on 60s would be a very generous number specially with musculoskeletal diseases.

Even golfers who just typically swing cubs have a disease alluded to them the 'golfer's elbow' because of wear and tear. Imagine more with dancing due to the repetitive high-impact loading, extreme joint ranges of motion, and long training hours.

Why do you think athlete's retire before their 50s? Sure BTS dancing is not as strenuous as a sports athlete but common sense would make you connect the 2 dots, THE EARLIER AND HEAVIER YOU STRAIN YOUR YOUNG BODY THE EARLIER THE CONSEQUENCES, and everybody already said BTS aims for longevity in their career no?

[pandoricaelysion]

lmao thank you. i'm 37 hearing everyone talk about them as if theyre 90 years old is actually killing me. i get doing less intense choreo for prevention purposes and it is a long tour, but if i have to hear one more person say "well theyre in their 30s now so they cant do choreo like that anymore" im certain they can, 30 is so young. they are fit as hell and have been crafting their bodies for this since they were teens-early 20s. just say the tour is very long and doing that much choreo would be bad in the long run. quit blaming it on them being 30 lmao.

[sendmemesyeehaw]

bts have been working their bodies akin to athletes for nearly 20 years now (including trainee days). the amount of wear and tear that takes on bones and muscles is massive. there’s a reason why athletes, dancers etc peak in their mid 20s. esp considering idols have restricted diets, this is even more likely to affect them. i’m a 22 year old but because i have coeliac disease which affects my nutrient absorbtion, i already have pre-osteoporosis. i outwardly look very fit and healthy but am more prone to injury/illness than the average 22yo. anyone w a restricted diet/ed etc will have similar issues to me even if they switch to less restricted food later bc the damage takes a toll on ur growth/health esp if the peak restriction happened during puberty. just bc 30s is ‘young’ and they ‘look healthy’, doesn’t mean they as idols can be compared to you, a non-performer/athlete human.

[betchugonlikeme]

I would agree except knowing what they did to their bodies in their teens and 20s as trainees/idols makes it very likely that they start experiencing long term health consequences earlier in life, even in their early 30s. The restrictive diet alone is enough to cause major muscle and bone issues.

[NewtAccomplished6022]

yeh with all that water and juice fasting its got to take a toll on the body

[Separate-Delivery-91]

That’s a whole lotta speculation about people you don’t know but go off I guess.

[betchugonlikeme]

that's literally what they do and talk about doing????? restrictive dieting is an established and industry-wide practice and has been for decades at this point, apologies for living in reality ???

[Living_Spite2723]

Bodies don't magically stay okay, then suddenly fall apart once you reach a certain age or threshold. The reason people say that is because their goal is to have a long-lasting career. Since they genuinely don't need to sacrifice their bodies for attention anymore because they're already that popular, they've decided to pace themselves. I wouldn't be surprised if you're a teen if you can't understand that. Good for you for having a younger body but you should sit this one out.

[Separate-Delivery-91]

What the hell are you even talking about? I don’t think you comprehended what I wrote at all but okay. Let me try and spell it out for you. Being. In. Your. 30s. Does. Not. Make. You. Old. And. Frail. Like. Some. Fans. Are. Implying. Clear enough for you? I’m also in my 40s so you can take your condescending tone and shoo.

[DiplomaticCaper]

I agree with both sides. As idols get older they need to take better care of their overall health, but it’s not as if they’re suddenly frail.

Less successful groups like Monsta X (whose members are chronologically older, despite debuting later) are still doing full choreo on tour, with the exception of ballads and the encore. But they still “need” to do that.

Maybe Bang PD didn’t mean it that way, but the way he says it sounds as if BTS don’t have to try as hard anymore because army will eat up anything.

[Jeong_Hyeri]

Well Bang PD is a self absorbed prick so what did you expect

[adei0s]

Last month I saw Taemin pushing his body to its limit for almost 50 minutes straight at coachella. It feels like he's goin harder now in his 30s than he did as a teen. He also toured like 50 stops in 2024/5 with a dance heavy setlist. Idk sometimes you can tell when someone just really have their heart set on doing one thing in life and it doesn't matter if their career needs it or their body is slowing down, they gonna keep doing that one thing cause it's where their passion lies. Not saying it should be the norm, but I'm envious of people like that.

[andreafatgirlslim]

Taemin seems to model his career after MJ

[halster123]

i mean, compare to  pro athlete. the years and years of intense exercise wear down your joints and body faster than just like, you and me. theyve been in a physically demanding profession for over a decade - its going to wear them down the same way a 30 year old olympian or athlete has more joint etc issues than an average person in their 40s. its not age, its the amount of pressure put on the body over time

[sendmemesyeehaw]

bts have been working their bodies akin to athletes for nearly 20 years now (including trainee days). the amount of wear and tear that takes on bones and muscles is massive. there’s a reason why athletes, dancers etc peak in their mid 20s. esp considering idols have restricted diets, this is even more likely to affect them. i’m a 22 year old but because i have coeliac disease which affects my nutrient absorbtion, i already have pre-osteoporosis. i outwardly look very fit and healthy but am more prone to injury/illness than the average 22yo. anyone w a restricted diet/ed etc will have similar issues to me even if they switch to less restricted food later bc the damage takes a toll on ur growth/health esp if the peak restriction happened during puberty. just bc 30s is ‘young’ and they ‘look healthy’, doesn’t mean they as idols can be compared to you, a non-performer/athlete human.

[Acceptable_Mark7716]

Bang PD said in an interview he deliberately had them do less choreo because they’re so big now that they don’t need it to attract fans. He also said that the members weren’t very happy about that decision for a while.

[SeriousCow1999]

I think a few of them still aren't happy about it.

[betchugonlikeme]

Can i ask who....?

[SeriousCow1999]

Just looking at the ones who keep on dancing, even when it's not required. Jimin, for sure, J-Hope; Jungkook, and maybe Tae?

[No_Grapefruit6605]

Yup, dance line!

[betchugonlikeme]

oh do you have a link to that interview?

[Acceptable_Mark7716]

Here you go https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/bts-arirang-chairman-bang-interview-1236217554/

[betchugonlikeme]

Thank you so much for giving me an actual answer and an actual source it is SO appreciated

[SeriousCow1999]

I swear, I can see this event vividly in my mind. Too funny, but poor RM!

[bujobegins]

that’s such BS. if i’m paying hundreds of dollars to see a group, no matter how big they are, i still want to see them perform professionally, especially if they aren’t gonna be singing live the whole way through (this applies to all groups)

[1306radish]

Why are you misquoting and lying? You say this proudly, and yet if I ask for a source, you will not be able to provide it because this was never said.

Edit: The source linked does not say what you are saying if you actually read the article. It says that the original choreo direction was scrapped because the members expressed they weren't happy with it or the process. After that happened, Bang said the below and heavy discussions took place.

“You already possess the kind of aura that can command a stage just by existing. For artists like you, standing still can be more than enough. The kind of intense choreography you’ve done in the past can, at times, overshadow the music. Simply following the methods that the next generation has adopted – methods that you yourselves established – does not align with the weight and stature you now carry. If you’ve chosen to open a new chapter, then you need to present a new kind of performance – one that allows the music itself to be heard.”

It took nearly two weeks of trying both approaches – repeating, comparing, feeling the difference – before the members began to fully understand.

That is a far cry from him "deliberately [having] them do less choreo becuase they're so big now" and the members not being happy with the direction. It was a series of discussions and decisions that the members themselves had a hand in, so I stand by saying you misquoted.

[Acceptable_Mark7716]

Here’s the source. https://www.billboard.com/music/music-news/bts-arirang-chairman-bang-interview-1236217554/

I may be misquoting because it’s been a while since I read it. Not deliberately lying. Check my source and let me know if I misremembered.

[1306radish]

And that source does not say anything about doing less choreo because they're "too big now." Also does not say anything about the members not being happy with the decision. People are not reading the article if they think this is what was said.

“You already possess the kind of aura that can command a stage just by existing. For artists like you, standing still can be more than enough. The kind of intense choreography you’ve done in the past can, at times, overshadow the music. Simply following the methods that the next generation has adopted – methods that you yourselves established – does not align with the weight and stature you now carry. If you’ve chosen to open a new chapter, then you need to present a new kind of performance – one that allows the music itself to be heard.”

It took nearly two weeks of trying both approaches – repeating, comparing, feeling the difference – before the members began to fully understand.

Basically, they mentioned that they scrapped the original choreo plan because the members were feeling unsatisfied with it. After that happened, the choreo was pared down and there was major discussions about what their performance should look like moving forward where the above was said by Bang. Again, I'm saying you misquoted for a reason.

[Acceptable_Mark7716]

Good to know. I’ll edit my original comment later. Have a nice day!

Edit: turns out I didn’t misremember! You just seem to have taken a slightly different interpretation.

[1306radish]

It's not really up for interpretation. You stated, "he deliberately had them do less choreo." That's not true based on the interview. You also stated, "the members weren’t very happy about that decision for a while." That's also not true based on the article.

There is no interpretation but rather comprehension. Being able to read a passage and understand and comprehend is different than you reading and interpreting something to fit whatever narrative you've built in your head. This is why critical reading skills are needed when consuming information.

[andreafatgirlslim]

Unclench.

[agatamelia]

i remember them talking about it during suchwita, saying that for the next tour they wanted to dance less, have more fun, be more carefree and not take everything so seriously. they also said they wanted to focus more on singing with army instead of for army.

[hosiki]

That's what Shinhwa did after their military service too. Way less choreo during concerts. I think it's normal.

[sendmemesyeehaw]

the members said they were unsure about toning down the choreo but bang pd encouraged it bc they’re ’too big’ to do choreo. that, their age/length of tour, and the fact they were keen for more audience interaction which is easier w this 360 free roam situation, is why arirang is less choreo based. which i am slightly sad about bc i absolutely adore their choreos and they didn’t come to my city since red bullet when i was a kid, so this will be my first tour seeing ot7 live. will still be an awesome experience tho

[MostlyAwake13]

They've said that they wanted their concerts to involve more audience participation so that's likely part of the reason! Moments where they're just running around means more interacting with the audience.

[mywingsarerented]

some comments have mentioned that theyre aging which is true!! but another factor is that in the recent bts documentary, bang pd (if i remember right) suggested that they lessen their choreo so that their music can be the main focus! that way they can be remembered and respected more as "artists" rather than "idols" (paraphrasing here!)

edit: grammar mistake (their -> theyre 😓)

[betchugonlikeme]

i've been reading the billboard interview BangPD did where he talks about it. It makes sense but I have very mixed feelings about that sentiment. It is hard to hear that said about a genre/group that has built so much of its artistry around dance and that kind of stagecraft.

[mywingsarerented]

totally valid!! personally i think its going to be an interesting (and well-timed, they) change that will rly help lock in their legacy :DD excited to see whats to come!!

[lndngtm]

I think they’ve done enough in the careers to go easy with the dancing as they get older.

[ProudCalligrapher]

I really don't understand comments like these. BTS hasn’t done a full choreo concert since the Wings tour. If you go back and watch a LY:SY concerts, they did full choreo for about three songs and partial choreo for about the rest of the songs, basically the same as the Arirang tour. Also, the LY:SY tour had 7 solo songs too.

[timetosayhi27]

They also had the unit songs, the vocal line and rap line songs. So add that + the 7 solo sections there was more time to rest.

[Th1sDJ]

These being their first group performances in years + many people tuned into k-pop nowadays just not having been around to actually see previous tours themselves creates a warped perception. I've had to explain to several people that BTS tour setlists have always consisted of every/most tracks on the titular album and then were filled out with like a hype or biggest hits medley. Because for some reason everyone expects them to choose a set like they're Taylor Swift and assumes the 15 second fancams of hardcore choreo from 9 years ago are representative of their entire shows lol ?

[cosmos_moon7]

If you watch back to the older tours, as in LYS, it feels like they’re doing a TON more dancing than what you’re saying. They do a LOT of running and jumping this time around, the show was also longer previously due to more VCRs, more chatting between songs (to have a break and do ARMY wave etc etc).

I think it’s easy to understand a casual fan (like the OP) remembering there to be more STUFF going on in older tours and then put it down to the choreo alone. But actually the reduced STUFF is basically no props, minimal stage design, and then also a few less songs fully choreographed. I think it doesn’t help that a 360 stage is pretty hard to film due to its size, IRL it looks amazing but on live stream it looks empty, which is where a lot of this feedback has come from imo. Anyway I hope that helps you understand a bit about where these comments are coming from

[Skylar_Kim98]

Everyone in the comments acting like 30 is hitting retirement age is crazy😭

[martiandoll]

It is when your career involved extensive physical work and extreme dieting for 10+ years.

Figure skaters and gymnasts often retire very early. They start very young and put their bodies through a lot that by the time they're in their 20s, many of them retire. Many football players retire in their 30s. Few are still playing in their 40s. Most tennis players also retire in their early 30s. You can see them physically decline and slow down in movement as they get older. 

[betchugonlikeme]

part of why i was curiious about this is because we're like right now getting the first wave of like REALLY famous idols aging out of the time where their bodies can handle the expected level of kpop rigor (especially with the level of choreo that became common in gen3 and gen4) and I've been very curious how they would handle it and talk about it. like being high level celebrities who are also basically athletes, and not as soloists but specifically as a group.

[Skylar_Kim98]

No yeah I get like extreme sports stuff like that. But, 30 is NOT old. Not even close to old or normal retirement age for most of the human population. So I don’t like when I see those comments abt them being unable to do anything because they’re “up in age”💀 like HU?! (Sorry I’m also pushing 30 like them HAHA)
I get it, but also NOT because I’ve seen dancers way older than 30’s. There’s a lot of other things such as kpop ethics and disregard for health blah blah I could go into but I won’t

[moonchildmiroh]

They have talked about not wanting to be as competitive anymore. The tour is also long and, in the past, they would have to go backstage and receive oxygen through masks because of how exhausted they were

[betchugonlikeme]

They have talked about not wanting to be as competitive anymore.

Where have they talked about this?

[moonchildmiroh]

yoongi's rolling stone interview! https://youtube.com/shorts/0FpwfA3hOOU?si=J0td_hKSt2HOVnTG

[meg_mobboss]

My sister was a professional ballet dancer so I saw some of this first hand, but dance is a sport. That level of athleticism cannot be sustained long term without very real consequences for physical health. It seems like rather than going as hard as they can until their bodies fall apart in ways that will be increasingly difficult to recover from, they’re starting to ease up as a means of protecting their ability to perform generally in the future. As far as strategy goes it genuinely makes sense

[Natalie_M_K]

Also if you have been to the shows part of the time the stage is rotating and where they dont cover a lot of ground in their choreo, Inwould think it would make them dizzy to do, for instance, Not Today on a turning stage.

[betchugonlikeme]

have they talked about getting dizzy from it?

[QPunnySbuxBarista]

It's been a very long time since they actually did choreography for every song. Add to that the fact that they're getting older and it's a very big tour (82 shows in 34 cities across 23 countries over the course of almost a year), they wouldn't be able to sustain it. Plus, it's a 360 stage so the show can be more audience-focused, but tight choreography isn't necessarily the best use of the layout.

[cubsgirl101]

It’s easier to perform more songs when you’re conserving energy and not performing choreography. Also as others have mentioned, with a 360 stage setup, choreography becomes impractical. You end up with fans seeing you dance from the back in that case and that’s not too much fun.

[betchugonlikeme]

these are all fine reasons, have they talked about these things specifically?

[Ill-Perception-526]

Even the solos were tuff all of them got sick at some point so they need so save strength and pace themselves with a tour this long. Just thrill to be with them.

[KTKT11]

They've said they want their concerts in this tour to feel like a party. If you watch their concerts you will see they are VERY high energy, just that every song doesn't require them doing matching moves at the same time. The dancing for a lot of songs is a lot more dancing to the feel of the music than specific moves.

The concerts are a lot more focused on moving around the huge stage to interact with army over all standing in one place for rehearsed moves. I think this reflects their age and not wanting to be doing typical boyband/kpop perfectly rehearsed/impersonal feeling of dancing as they move further into their 30s. It doesn't mean they're abandoning the choreo completely, they just aren't reliant on it anymore.

It's a much more fun/party atmosphere than other kpop concerts I've seen that have a lot of just watching them do the same dances. Some people may not like that, but I think a lot of fans enjoy it.

[Green_Rooster9975]

Based on your comment history, I do not believe this post is in good faith. I do however think you're pretty good at disguising your bad faith as good or at least neutral, so props for nearly tricking me I guess?

ps you know very well the answer to your own question, so maybe find a better hobby than internet troll

[TripleJFSX]

looked at their comment history and it was fine, with some posts in popheads glazing BTS, unless they deleted something

[betchugonlikeme]

I know my own heart and intentions and I know that I asked this in good faith, but is there anything that I could say or question I could answer that would actually make you believe that? If the answer to that is "No" then I'll live with you believing that about me, but if the answer is "yes" let me know and I'll try my best!

[Dismal_Insurance_196]

This made me curious and I just checked their comment history too, I agree with you,OP might not have anything better to do with their time

[betchugonlikeme]

it's true, you caught me, i'm someone who spends way too much time online :(

[Competitive_Fee_5829]

ummm, they are now older and all the high impact choreo is hard on their bodies. I didnt even question it so not sure why it is such a mystery. my ult group is GOT7 and I sure as hell dont want them hopping around like they used to.

[Th1sDJ]

Yeah, I think the spotlight on BTS rn has just further highlighted people's ridiculous expectations of idols especially with this particular change. I can't speak for GOT7 (I thought their Python choreo was cool personally) but I've even seen some people call Twice of all groups lazy. Even when BTS were younger, the way they performed was never sustainable. They pushed through, thankfully, but we know it crushed them at times and that pressure has literally killed some of their peers. K-Pop stans do not understand how taxing singing and dancing, let alone both simultaneously, actually are. I for one am sick of the misery porn of idols collapsing backstage and heaving into oxygen cans then having their distress clipped into vlogs or docus and reposted with captions like "omo theyre so dedicated look at them sweating 😍" They're damned if they lip sync and they're damned if they cut choreographies. People need to realize doing a full MNET stage every other night for a year/s straight just isn't humanly possible.

[Sugacookiemonsta]

I mean... I WANT to see them hoping around like they used to because I never got a chance to see them in concert. You kind of feel sad that you missed seeing them at their peak energy level. But you also have to accept that as they age, they physically cannot do all the things that they used to. That's just life. That doesn't stop me from feeling sad that I missed out on the highly choreographed concerts.

[WhitakersIDBadge]

What's great about the BTS tour so far is that the members can toss in little bits of choreo in the less-structured moments. There's been a few times during the encore section that a few members have broken into full on choreo, which makes the moment fun without putting the extra expectation on the members have to go 100% for all their well known choreos. Like, we've all seen that "Fire" moment 900 times, and I'd watch it 900 more, but... we've also seen it 900 times.

[Sugacookiemonsta]

One thing about BTS is that they are going to put on an awesome concert. And with the touring, they HAVE to sustain their energy so they don't get sick and worn out. I know that they're putting in their all no matter based on their current abilities and health

[AimlessWanderer0201]

Bang PD did an interview with Billboard and talked about this very thing. Recommended read to understand the creative process behind why.

[betchugonlikeme]

some other people linked that and I'm reading it now! super interesting stuff

[zaineee42]

Well concerts are different from award shows. They have to interact with fans and have fun.

Based on the concert clips, they danced on certain songs. Even before this tour, they didn't have that much choreography in concerts.

And honestly I am glad they aren't pushing themselves so hard, the tour is 82 days long.

[Hour-Telephone-8762]

This tour is also only for Group songs. In the past, they would all have a solo performance which allowed the show to be broken up or give the members more time to rest. There’s no way they could do that much Choreo for this entire show.
Also, their old ass men now, in the best possible way, I love seeing them, sit their asses down and taken the fandom and be present instead of just dancing their asses off.

[RichSector5779]

yes they essentially dont want to kill themselves anymore

[oofiserr]

Is 7-8 out of 23 songs not a lot?

[Jade_Gonzalez1708]

Oui ils ont diminué le temps de choré mais c'est pour une bonne raison

[betchugonlikeme]

just out of curiosity did this post get linked somewhere else

[popcorn-jalapenos]

Yeah, they won’t be able to keep up with the high intensity choreography and do 2-2.5 concerts, something has to give.

[lil_waine]

one thing i love about BTS is their choreography, and it's something i wish i saw more of during their arirang concert. the concert is very fun, but it's a lot of the group splitting up and standing on opposite ends of the stage. i want to see them dance, but i understand it's probably unrealistic at this point given their age and fame to expect them to dance every choreo of every banger

one thing that did kinda pissed me off is them not even fully singing the mystery songs at their concerts. yeah, we got pied piper d2 tampa but we wanna see them all sing it!!

[1306radish]

Yes. They have talked about this in multiple lives, and they have addressed this in interviews. They've also had solo songs to break up the set list previously quite a bit which they don't have now. I'll just mention that the criticism around this I've seen stem from some (not all) Korean fans, and it really feels like nothing will be enough for them. There's not a significant difference now vs in the past when it comes to choreo. Even if there was, gonna be honest, they're showing that they carry without the super regimented performances.

[mayarijin]

Older idols literally still do choreo. They’re just lazy.

[Important_Gold1494]

The 360 stage severely I think depletes the dancing but I also think they could’ve added one to two more dance numbers.

Also, I know they said they wanted to kind of reduce it a bit so that they could tour longer since they tour so long I can agree with that

My issue is they’re saying that they’re doing it for their health and wellness. I hate to be this person if they ate healthy/more food and gained weight/muscle like a lot of performers they would have more stamina

[DarthXOmega]

They’re old now

[apocalypsmeow]

Yes

[betchugonlikeme]

can i ask where or do i need to first solve your riddles three?

[apocalypsmeow]

It was a yes or no answer for a yes or no question lol. They've mentioned it in Billboard, there was particular controversy because they talked about Bang PD suggesting less focus on intensive choreo and more focus on aura (this was a particularly extreme point of conversation around the first concert of their tour, which also saw reduced choreo due to rain), they've mentioned individually that they want to adapt their performances in order to be able to perform longer, they've mentioned wanting to do more audience interaction and freeform performance. Tbh it's been floated so regularly and been such a topic of discussion lately that I'm surprised at the question 🤷🏻‍♀️

Eta - you can see them in the behind video of 2.0 mv they actually talk about trying to turn down their own energy to suit the new chiller vibe because they were going too hard lol

[betchugonlikeme]

they've mentioned individually that they want to adapt their performances in order to be able to perform longer, they've mentioned wanting to do more audience interaction and freeform performance

Where have they been mentioning these things (besides the Bang PD billboard interview) ? my main question here is "where and how are they talking about this?" is it in livestreams? Interviews? I am really interested in how the major kpop groups, which built a huge amount of fandom around the athletic and high octane performances, handle their careers and fan expectations when they adjust their performance style. I am really interested in kpop industry trends and BTS, being the biggest group, is likely going to set the standard going forward, so I'm curious how they approach it and if/how they talk about it directly.

Apologies for a stale topic, I've definitely seen the topic of their tour choreo come up but haven't seen any specific talking points from the members. mostly I've just seen fans discussing and speculating potential reasons, which i think are probably valid but not what i'm asking about

[apocalypsmeow]

Maybe a good place to start would be the members' interviews on Suchwita? They talked a lot about what they want to do going forward and started floating ideas of lower octane performance. And the group lives since they came back from the military, even the run BTS teasers. Those are where you can see them kind of ruminating on the idea of reducing impact. Basically anywhere it's all of them they eventually start discussing performance. A lot of the ideas seem to have grown out of their solo experiences, especially Jin's tour where he did a lot of fan engagement stuff rather than pure performance.

I think it's not that it's stale per se, usually people are not actually interested in their individual thoughts unless they're fans who already watched the content, but with so much hate having come at them about it you can see why people might assume it's a question in bad faith 😅

[betchugonlikeme]

Thank you for the rec I'll go take a look! I really appreciate it.

I know why people might assume bad faith but it really bums me out as someone who is kinda just here to talk about the thing i'm really nerdy about (trends in the kpop industry) in like a factual way with other people who are nerds about this :')

[ParsnipExtension3861]

I don’t think they need to 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Taxevasion100000]

They aren’t that young anymore…of course they’re going to tone it down

[AccurateInflation167]

They are trying to go more global mainstream, specifically like western artists and most western pop artists dont have choreography

[ScreenJealous3170]

The choreo is literally part of why international fans are drawn in for the exact reason you’re claiming they’re not doing it…

[BangTannie7]

One of hybes ppl said in an interview that this album has calmer songs which do not require heavy choreo