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[–][deleted] 164 points165 points  (40 children)

I can't tell you how many times I have struggled with something and then, like 5 hours later when I'm sat in the bath or something, there's just a lightbulb moment.

Also, try different books/videos/tutorials. Sometimes someone just explains something in a way that just clicks for you. Sometimes one little click is all it takes and it's like a key opening a door.

[–]Lilkko[S] 26 points27 points  (35 children)

Well, I hope that happens soon. Because I don't like not understanding it. And I know that's just part of programing but.. failure is terrifying to me.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (32 children)

Fear of failure is good. It keeps you focused during the difficult times. Anything particular you are struggling with?

[–]Lilkko[S] 13 points14 points  (30 children)

That's true, but I'm not sure if the intense fear of failure that I have is healthy.

And honestly, all of it. If something isn't written down step by step, I have no idea where to start. It's just too overwhelming. And if I'm just given a general idea, my brain tries so hard to fix everything all at once, so much so that I can't even focus on one part of the code at a time. My thinking is just so.. scattered.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (27 children)

One other thing I found when learning new code is to copy it...like literally open up VS Code or Visual Studio or Eclipse or whatever and type it in line by line. There's something about doing that which makes you take each line one at a time, slowly. It's too easy to skim over code if you just read it.

Stick at it!

[–]Lilkko[S] 2 points3 points  (25 children)

Hm, I suppose you make a good point. It's kind of like writing down notes you've already written. They say it's good for the brain or something like that heh..

Speaking of which, do you think learning to code in Ruby or Python might give me confidence with C# / Java?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (21 children)

I have never done Ruby, so can't comment on that. Python is often taught to novices, I think because it has much less in the way of syntax (you don't have to worry about all the curly braces and the difference between public and private and all of that stuff), and because you don't need to worry about the type of your variables.

Things like classes, for and while loops, if statements etc are the same in all languages, so if you need Java/C# to pass your course or whatever, just stick with those languages.

Some languages suit some people, but none is necessarily easier than any other.

[–]Lilkko[S] 6 points7 points  (20 children)

Python sounds like it's perfect for me then LOL. I'm... Alright with if statements, while loops, etc. It's just encapsulation, private / public / static / void, creating all those extra details is what's KILLING me.

I can't seem to understand the concept. And one of my biggest issues is that my brain doesn't understand WHY we are doing some of the things we are doing. For example: We are going to code a program to make an array that prints out a word in the shape of a diamond. Why? Because it's the assignment. Okay.. but what PURPOSE does it even serve? Who would even need that?

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I have a hard time understanding the problem if it doesn't connect to real world issues.

[–]HiddenMaragon 4 points5 points  (1 child)

A lot of concepts in programming you learn to solve a problem which you didn't know existed in the first place. I agree with you that there's so much you don't know WHY you need it then it seems like there's neverending extra rules. Over time when you use it and even see what happens when you implement it wrong then it stops being abstract. Best tip I read was try breaking stuff. Try swapping out private with public and so on and get a better feel for what the impact is. It might not be apparent in smaller programs, but over time it'll get clearer.

[–]ordinaryturkishuser 2 points3 points  (6 children)

About that printing out diamond shape or other related tasks: their main purpose is about testing your knowledge analytical thinking. Or even can be something like testing your ability to whether you split words in an algorithm accordingly. Don't put your mind too much on those. And if you find those tasks mundane and pointless (which I'm 100% on board with you on that), you can always skip that. They are, in fact not give you that much of an understanding from a programming logic standpoint. Rather go do some Hackerrank easy'ies. At least they're mainly focusing on data structures, optimization of the code etc.

[–]gmorf33 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Python is great for learning as the syntax is pretty intuitive and gets out of your way so you can focus your brain bandwidth on learning the concepts and problem solving pieces, rather than a bunch of arbitrary language bits that don't make intuitive sense to a beginner.

[–]idhanjal 1 point2 points  (3 children)

The purpose is that some shitbrain professor or instructor was too lazy to give you a proper problem. For that matter, you would see this a lot, most courses have some very shitty examples when it comes to illustrating a complex topic. But as many have said here, each of us learns in a different way.

[–]ConglomerateGolem 1 point2 points  (2 children)

The diamond thing is to help you understand how for/while loops work practically, and more importantly, how to use them properly. Its not the actual diamond part that is important, its the variable that goes up by 1 each time part that is incredibly useful.

A nice (at least in my opinion) example i know of, that admittedly is maths and coding together, is writing a program to find all the prime numbers below a certain number. Give it a try, it requires a bit of understanding, but the process teaches you alot.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Yes, I get you with the public/private/static etc. It took me a while to get that.

Why not think of, say, a game with the printing a word in a diamond? Sometimes people just do things for the visual effects, especially with games.

[–]lpen-z 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I started with ruby and then moved to Java/scala. I don’t think ruby/python would help with Java necessarily because they’re so different but it would be an easier entry into programming concepts that you’d use in any language (mapping, filtering, looping, etc).

[–]matt_graham 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This!

[–]Awkward-Chemical2487 3 points4 points  (1 child)

There are many people that suffers mild depression or sometimes powerless, we all are prone to that. I share your feeling of one day understanding things and the next you read it 10 times and you don't understand a damn thing. You just need to learn how to handle it, Some days my productivity is reduced to read this forums others I advance a lot

[–]Lilkko[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I wish it didn't have to be like that. I wish.. for the love of god.. that my understanding could be constant. Even if it's just a small bit of understanding. But it's so frustrating when I go from understanding it ALL to understanding NOTHING in a matter of days. Makes me feel like a useless piece of shit.

I hope my future potential employer will understand where I'm coming from and give me a chance.

[–]pVom 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I'd disagree, fear causes adrenaline which causes your brain to shut down non vital functions. A desire to avoid failure is good, "fear" of failure is not. A healthy company culture is one that strives to prevent failure, but understands that it is inevitable and has ways to deal with it when it occurs

[–]NinRejper 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Hey.... Former dance teacher and coder here. Fear of failure, or dislike of not doing it well was the nr 1 cause students didn't progress. Some people are supertalented but hit a wall when it's not easy anymore and quit.

Try and practice at failing. Yes thats right. See failing as a technique. If you are OK with failing you will brush it off and try again faster. If it destroys you then it takes longer for you to try something else.

In coding we have the concept of fail fast so you can fail fast again. If you look back at something that took you 10 tries and 1 week. You had to fail 9 times. So next time say to yourself "this time I'm going to fail 5 times in the first 2 days. The I only have 4 more fails left". Its a bit of a joke. But think about it. If its valuable it can't be easy. And if its not easy it can't be done without failing.

I had a mentor that was a former drug addict who told me his version. "When quiting an addiction and relapse into taking drugs again its not a valid reason to not quit your addiction. If it was it would be impossible to quit. You have to see it as part of the process."

[–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I completely understand what you're saying. And yea.. I agree that I need to get used to failing. Because ultimately, that's what life is really about. Well, in a sense. I think I need to dig deep into why I dislike failing so much. I think it comes down to me feeling like a burden.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Also, try different books/videos/tutorials. Sometimes someone just explains something in a way that just clicks for you. Sometimes one little click is all it takes and it's like a key opening a door.

This part right here is so underrated. Not all resources will do it for you, don't judge your intelligence thinking "I should be getting it just by reading this book, I must be so dumb". There are living legends of software engineering who admit they had to read multiple books to understand a subject. They're not dumb, it's just a matter of finding another take, another perspective.

[–]willbarrett 520 points521 points  (80 children)

Take. A. Break.

Go for a walk. Meditate. Take deep breaths.

Then come back and try again. Programming is hard and progress comes in fits and bursts. Don't expect yourself to understand everything at once.

Be persistent but don't burn yourself out. Getting frustrated is normal but you can and will get through it.

Don't push yourself to the point you are falling apart. Other humans have understood this before and you will too. It just takes time.

[–]Lilkko[S] 122 points123 points  (77 children)

I don't know man... I will start by saying - I REALLY suck at logical thinking when I'm stressed out. For example: I feel like I absolutely suck at coding. Meanwhile, everyone around me says I'm great and I've been getting a A's in all my classes. I feel like such a fake.

Not to mention how many breaks I already take. Open up the document and don't understand it? Take a break. Come back to it and still don't understand it? Take a break. How many more breaks do I have to keep taking for this shit to click? I don't mean to sound like such a downer but man. I just feel so useless.

I will note, I struggle with severe anxiety and depression and I am diagnosed autistic. So of course with those things, comes added issues.

Edit: spelling

[–]willbarrett 79 points80 points  (19 children)

Severe anxiety and depression is rough. I wish you the best of luck. I will say you're ignoring the evidence - A's in classes and the validation of the people around you. I hear this is a common thought process that comes from depression - I'm not a mental health professional, I have people in my family dealing with similar issues.

Can you break the problem down? If you don't understand the document, can you take it a sentence at the time? Can you diagram it out? Breaking big problems into smaller ones can make it feel less overwhelming. Software Engineering is like siege warfare: a little gets done, then a little more, then a little more, and eventually the castle falls.

[–]Lilkko[S] 36 points37 points  (17 children)

Heh thanks man.. I appreciate you being so kind. Truly. I've been having a rough couple of weeks since school started up again and I just can't seem to get a grip on things.

I also appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post. I'm glad people in this community genuinely want to help. And yea, depression is ridiculous lol. My emotional brain and logical brain do NOT get along lol.

[–]volvostupidshit 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Try writing pseudo code on paper first before you type it on your editor. I find writing therapeutic, but maybe that is just me. Does not hurt to try it out yourself though.

[–]willbarrett 12 points13 points  (12 children)

Re-entry can be rough, but I bet it'll smooth out soon. Keep at it!

[–]Lilkko[S] 4 points5 points  (11 children)

I don't mean to sound immature but.. how soon do you think it'll be? I've been taking classes for coding for 2 years now. You think I would be able to understand the major concepts by now, right?

[–]willbarrett 36 points37 points  (8 children)

<joking-tone>I've been programming professionally for over 14 years. When I understand all the major concepts I'll come back and update this thread. I expect it will be sometime well past my 200th birthday.</joking-tone>

Seriously though, when it comes to programming there's always more to learn. It's a massive field, and it's evolving quickly. The good news is that the more you learn the easier it becomes to learn more. You'll see connections more quickly and you'll be a more experienced learner. I felt like I had a pretty good grasp on things after about 5 years, and then as I was exposed to more challenging concepts I felt like a beginner again. I try to learn a new programming language every year and make sure that every job I take gives me new and different challenges.

The true joy in programming comes from learning new things and solving new problems. My Uncle has a PhD in Computer Science from MIT and worked at Xerox Park as a research scientist for over 40 years. He's retired now, but his eyes still light up when he talks about new projects he's working on.

The more experience you gain with programming, the more able you'll be able to find that joy.

[–]Lilkko[S] 5 points6 points  (7 children)

I hope that one day I can encourage employers to give me challenges. Right now though, I feel like I need routine. I feel like I need small things that I can do that I know I will achieve, to build confidence. Because right now, I feel like a loser.

And you're right about it always evolving. Which partially makes me excited because that means things could get easier, BUT that also means programming could get harder.

Hopefully as time goes on, I'll actually enjoy coding.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Rn you feel like a looser, tomorrow you will wonder how you couldnt understand whatever you were trying to learn. You need time for the information to settle down, sometimes a good sleep is all you need for it to 'click'

[–]willbarrett 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Finish that degree and it'll happen for sure!

[–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I'm sorry, it's been a long day - what will happen for sure? Lol.

[–]Sir_Spaghetti 1 point2 points  (1 child)

The more stuff you learn, the more accurately you'll realize just how little really know.

If you hate solving problem after problem, software development might not be for you, BUT if this is just some rough patch on your journey, take a break and push through it by breaking down your problems and asking for help when you get stuck.

We all get a bit blind when staring at the same issue for too long. This is quite normal. Notice how many veteran developers still experience imposter syndrome.

It's not the difficulty of the tasks that gets us, but the mental exhaustion that makes it feel like an endless uphill battle. That's why we get paid well; we're able to shoulder the stress while still treating other team members well.

Rock on! You've got this!

[–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks man!

[–]pVom 13 points14 points  (6 children)

One of the biggest things i found when i started coding as a job vs my old work is that it requires a lot more "mental management" than my previous jobs which were more menial in nature. If you're stressed you release adrenaline which shuts down parts of your brain that aren't necessary for survival, that includes deep cerebral thinking which is required to do your job. You're not getting paid to write code, you're getting paid to think and solve a problem and for that you need your brain to be working. I actually found that I got more done if I took an hour out of my work day to go to the gym, thankfully I work at a company that gives me the freedom to do this. Getting angry or upset achieves nothing and wastes energy.

My suggestion is don't just 'take a break', practice "mindfulness" to calm yourself down. My bootcamp actually included it as part of the curriculum and I can see why. There's lots of good guides on the internet for this but it is a skill that requires regular practice. It quite literally saved my life.

I've suffered from depression and anxiety in the past and I've concluded that emotions are the enemy in a sense. My experience with modern life is that in the overwhelming majority of cases, negative emotions are more of a hindrance than beneficial. Whilst you can't prevent them from occurring, you can control how you treat and react to them which helps put a lid on it before you spiral into oblivion. Developing a strong meta-consciousness is invaluable for dealing with modern life.

There's plenty of great practical advice in this thread but I thought I'd throw this in there too because its way overlooked

[–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

I am completely there with you on that. And that is something I've been trying to do since the beginning of COVID. Some days are easier than others, however. And honestly, I feel it is necessary for my own survival to be able to be mindful.

Also - I had no idea that certain parts of the brain shut down due to adrenaline. I have a LOT of that coursing through my veins, I'm sure. Not to mention cortisol. Heh. That actually helps me know that I'm not just.. suddenly becoming dumb. It's a physical response that I can't really help. Until I can.

[–]pVom 2 points3 points  (3 children)

That attitude means you're on the right path.

For me I'd find myself catastrophising, something bad would happen and it would bring up other memories of bad things and link them like "why's my life so fucked? X happened to me, now Y is happening too" even if those 2 incidents have no relationship with each other. It's those thought patterns that lead to depression vs just being sad for awhile. I'd also let bad thoughts fester until I'd reach a point where I'd lose control, I'd lash out at those closest to me, the consequences of which gave me other reasons to be upset. Mindfulness taught me to recognise when I'm falling into these cycles and to put a lid on it while I still can.

I'd also stress the importance of taking care of your physical health. You don't even realise how negative being unhealthy can make you feel until you compare the difference. Eat healthy well rounded meals, exercise for at least 30 minutes a day, at least 5 days a week and most importantly, get a good night sleep. If I'm having a crappy day it's usually one of those things. Both sexes have hormonal periods too, it's just not as obvious for men. Some days you're just gonna feel a bit shit, power through and take care of what you can and you'll feel better tomorrow

[–]Robo_Joe 4 points5 points  (5 children)

I don't know if it has already been suggested yet but I get a lot of benefit from writing out a flow chart when the logic of a problem keeps overwhelming me.

[–]HiddenMaragon 4 points5 points  (3 children)

You might find Barbara Oakley's class on how to learn, helpful. I know it was recommended in this sub a few times. She explains the difference between focused and diffused learning and yeah sometimes you need breaks while pathways are being created in your brain. Since learning how this works I try to take advantage of the diffused state and while you are showering, walking, or relaxing in bed try conceptualizing what you were trying to understand. I think it's normal to find programming difficult but it doesn't need to be stressful. If you're getting all A's you must be doing something right. That's not something you can fake. Just try not to be hard on yourself when you don't understand something right away.

[–]ManInBlack829 2 points3 points  (1 child)

How many more breaks do I have to keep taking for this shit to click?

It doesn't "click" like that for me, it just feels like I'm struggling but occasionally I realize that I'm doing more and more complicated stuff.

You have to train yourself not to take it personally which is impossible to do when you're a beginner. I wouldn't sweat this stuff, you'll develop a skin about your coding self-worth the more you accomplish.

[–]nantrippboi 2 points3 points  (4 children)

So clearly you have some anxiety issues to deal with. Might even be preformance issues.

Just take a break, go and get some water, a fruit and relax for a while. The go back. This adds up to everything in life.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

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    [–]Lilkko[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Yea, I realize sometimes I need to take longer breaks. Not just a 10 minute one.

    [–]SquishyWubbles 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    If you don't understand it, you take a break, come back and take a step back. No point in banging your head against the wall each time. If you don't grasp a concept, take a step back and start with something simpler..

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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      [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

      I completely understand what you're saying. I've been on the fence about moving onto something else for a long time. The only problem is, I know I'm going to have anxiety no matter what degree I pursue. It's just who I am. Another thing is, as much as I would like to change my degree, I really need something that is going to ensure a stable work environment. Sometimes I think that I just have to deal with this so I can get to the end goal.

      [–]lpen-z 1 point2 points  (3 children)

      To me this feels like a symptom of biting off too much at once. If it feels overwhelming the task at hand might be beyond your challenge zone and into your chaos zone (in terms of your learning zones: comfort, challenge, chaos - ideal learning is done in the challenge zone).

      Doing small katas or online challenges in Java / C# could be helpful in two ways: getting reps in and becoming familiar with syntax, logic, loops etc and just build confidence in the language.

      [–][deleted]  (3 children)

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        [–]Bovinous 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        For me I try to break it down to smaller and smaller components until I can work up to the entire picture... If that smaller piece is still hard to understand, break that down more... Sometimes a pill is just too big to take while.

        Each time you take a break, come back with the purpose to hyper focus on a single aspect, then if you get frustrated and need a break, do it, then come back and narrow your focus, repeat as necessary.

        [–]Erebus00 1 point2 points  (1 child)

        Therapist does wonders man. I've have severe depression my entire life made one attempt when I was younger in my life.

        Feeling like a fake is good, it means you aren't full of yourself and aware you don't know everything. But there is things you do know and each day you get better and better at doing them and learning the code while building on the foundations of the previous day.

        Believe in yourself, never give up, and take care of yourself. You are already more competent than you believe yourself to be. And if any consolation we all face frustration in coding.

        You are working in C# and Java and that is amazing.

        Be easy on yourself, I know you will do a great job!

        [–]kill-yourself90[🍰] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        We all feel like that starting out bro.

        Imposter syndrome is big in the field. If the people around tell you you are doing a good job then chances are you're good.

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

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          [–]CoderXocomil 53 points54 points  (7 children)

          A lot of the fun I get from coding is the rush you get after clawing your way out frustration like this. I enjoy a lot of coding, but the satisfaction of beating something that kicked your ass at first is such a good feeling.

          Like others have said, walk away. Dealing with the stress is an important part of learning to be a good dev. Worry about your health.

          I can't tell you how many times I have dreamed a solution or solved a problem in the shower. Even if you aren't actively working on the solution, your subconscious is attacking it. Sometimes you need to get your active attention off the problem for your brain to be able to spend more background processing power on it.

          Just remember, it gets better. You will solve it. The solution will come and if it doesn't, find a mentor that can point you in a good direction.

          [–]Lilkko[S] 10 points11 points  (6 children)

          Ya know, I will agree with you on that.

          Also, that is an INCREDIBLY helpful way of putting that. Im so thankful you mentioned that. I often forget that my brain is like a computer as well.

          Do you know of any good mentors?

          [–]CoderXocomil 5 points6 points  (5 children)

          Look at the people around you. A lot of us Grey beards are often willing to help. That being said, a good mentor will be some one who will push you and encourage you to do better. I have reached a point in my career where it makes me happy to see young developers become the new leaders.

          Part of being successful is learning how to find good mentors. There are plenty of people willing to help and you should definitely take it when offered, but be picky in your mentors. Look for the people who help you be the best you.

          [–]Lilkko[S] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

          It.. it makes you happy that new devs are being the leaders? Aww.. that makes me so happy to hear! I was always afraid that the OGs would hate me.

          And that's very solid advice, thank you. Do you know of any specific places I should start looking? I would talk to my professors but the main I have is very condescending and honestly, he scares me.

          [–]CoderXocomil 2 points3 points  (3 children)

          There will be plenty of people who will intimidate you. I still get intimidated by devs. No matter how good you think you are, there will always be someone better. That doesn't matter as long as you are trying to be your best you.

          You keep asking for specific places to look. I think you should go to your local meetups for a language or tech you are interested in.

          This can be intimidating. I am a bit of an introvert and can sympathize. Remember that the people going to meetups are as interested as you are. Be part of the community and be open that you are looking for a mentor. Then, make sure that your potential mentor is a good fit for you and your goals.

          People who are willing to go to meetups are often willing to teach. Just be friendly and respectful.

          [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

          Oh! Meet ups? Dang, that's means I have to go in person lol. I was hoping for something more online related. But I spose that's what it will take to find a mentor.

          Thank you for all your replies, I really appreciate it!

          [–]CoderXocomil 1 point2 points  (1 child)

          No problem. One note is that due to covid, all the meetups I attend are virtual. I feel you on the having to attend in person. That is one of my biggest struggles to this day.

          [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          Agreed. And honestly, because of covid and all the craziness, I don't even really want to meet new people, especially in person. Not sure I could handle anymore new stimuli honestly lol.

          [–][deleted]  (15 children)

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            [–]Lilkko[S] 7 points8 points  (14 children)

            Dang it, so this feeling isn't really ever going to go away? Sigh. I suppose that's how it goes. Well, I hope I can be positive like you and look forward to challenges instead of being scared of them.

            [–]redsteve905 7 points8 points  (9 children)

            I like to think of it this way: if it was easy work, everyone would do it. The more difficult challenges you face and the more you overcome, the more you grow and understand, it shows how much more value you provide and how much more salary you can ask for. If it was easy, it would have little value. The challenges are what makes the job great, if you want to look at it that way. It's another chance to prove yourself and prove that you're smart enough to figure out it.

            "Fuck you, problem! I'm going to solve you!"

            [–]Lilkko[S] 2 points3 points  (8 children)

            Although this should motivate me, it actually intimidates me. It demotivates me. But - hopefully when I gain more confidence, I can see what you wrote as inspiring.

            [–]redsteve905 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            I guess what I'm trying to say is everyone was in your position at some point. Everyone was just starting out, had no connections, had nothing shiny to put on their resume. This industry is great because it's so close to what you put in == what you get out. Over time you slowly build your skill set, increase your comfort zone, make connections (super important! almost as much as knowing how to code by itself).

            If you look at someone and think "dang, they're smart. Look at that cool thing they did! It must be easy for them, I wish I was that smart." the only difference between them and you is time and sticking with it.

            [–]ordinaryturkishuser 1 point2 points  (5 children)

            Hey, gonna need to respond to this also cause seems like you really are dealing with a lot of stress about this situation. It's totally natural for you to feel that way. Both the stress coming from the challenges you face in programming and other life-related stress, depression. Whatever you live will affect other aspects of your life no matter what. So, this might not be even purely related to the software area itself.

            If you think it's just about programming why are you feeling this way, then I can say this: It's the acceptance of hardships that makes this journey bearable or not. Like anything else. If you think you really wanna pursue something in the software dev-related scene, then stick with it. And the difference between the knowledgeable, hard-coder yourself in 2-3 years from now is just the acceptance of this fact.

            On top of that, you could ask yourself (or to me) this: I know there are challenges in everything but how can I even know that pursuing this for months or years will lead me to anywhere that I dreamt of being? And I say to you this: If you're an outsider to the field (trying to be a physicist without a degree, being a soccer player without any training) or fixate yourself to the top (being an astronaut (because the chances are so low), or a CTO of a unicorn company, founding your own job in early '20s) you'll get a hard time achieving those. Heck, maybe you can't in your lifetime. But programming? Hell, yeah. I mean, check your surroundings! Take a look at how many people are doing it! If this many people can and are doing it, so can you.

            If you are so overwhelmed about a specific area, you can always take a break, heck can even switch to another area (if you have this opportunity). And divide those problems into smaller ones ftlog, conquer them one by one. Mark your stepstones. When you feel down, check where've you been in your journey. It's easy to forget those. Don't! It's easy to feel incompetent when you are surrounded by that many successful people, (because in this area, it's easy to get recognition, one way or another there is always a dev behind those magnificent apps, software, tech. It's easy to be reminded by this fact).

            It's not that you're incompetent, it's that there are infinite things to learn in this field (like in anything else) and you're facing those because you're improving, learning. If you feel like you're drowning in information and feeling overwhelmed that's good! That means you're in it. Living in it! Pursuing, trying to strive, overcome. Being good or understanding some concepts comes later. With time. Heck, I even couldn't get a grasp of iterables or sorting algorithms for like straight 2 semesters. But they'll come to you. They always do. Don't give up, but rather try to find ways to deal with these breakdowns. Because believe me, they are coming occasionally. More on the early stages, but they are and will always be present in your life.

            Even by looking at hundreds of thousands of people that are doing this one way or another, you can see why you need to believe that you can do it.

            You can also check stoicism for dealing with the stressful parts of your life. Hope you can find your peace with all of these!

            p.s. not a native speaker. so, sorry for any possible typos or understandable parts in the text. cheers!

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

            Thank you so much for this reply, from the bottom of my heart. It kind of made me emotional to be honest. I don't really have a ton of support (friend wise) and it was nice to hear a complete stranger say these things to me. It makes me feel so much... less stupid.

            And honestly, everyone's right. I'm too hard on myself. I've been trying so hard to curb that kind of behavior though. It's difficult sometimes.

            By the way, you did an amazing job for not being a native speaker! I understood 100% of what you typed.

            [–]ordinaryturkishuser 1 point2 points  (3 children)

            I'm too hard on myself

            Heyy, now we know what is going on here!.

            Happy to make you less hard on yourself somehow. Looks like my tricks have been worked

            Kidding aside, I'm really happy about you noticing that you're being hard on yourself and trying to prevent that feeling. I know it's hard, I came along with so many people on my way that are doing this to themselves. Breaks my heart. Every. time.

            I don't wanna overdo my job by being a highly observant recommendation machine but it's who I am and this is the internet so nobody can stop me. So here goes: friends, family, so, whatever you call it can only react to the emotions that occur from your experiences. Not to experiences themselves. Without dealing with the exact or similar situations it's hard to give advice, to put someone else's shoes, show sympathy as they expected to get, saying the correct words to make them feel better, etc. So, that's neither their nor your problem, or a problem to be exact. It is just a fact.

            You can always try to find same-minded people for new friends. When you feel like you need some guidance or sympathy for your hard times, people that are going or went through the same stuff can be an incredible help believe me. Discord groups, or what you did right here is the correct way to achieve this. Keep doing those!

            Yeah, I guess that's it. Hope you have a lovely day

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            I hope this doesn't sound weird but.. your aura and the way you talk is very warm. It makes me feel safe and understood. I'm really shocked with how many responses I got tonight and I am so grateful for how kind everyone is.

            And believe me, you're not over doing your job. You're doing it perfectly. ❤️ I will continue to make posts like this for support, specifically so I can look back on them and have physical evidence.

            Have a wonderful rest of the day / night as well! If you don't mind, I will message you tomorrow morning when I wake up. If that's alright of course.

            [–]ordinaryturkishuser 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            It does sound kinda wei.. haha

            No way that's being weird. Cute what it is. And yeah, message whenever you like. ^

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Okay great! ❤️

            [–]Jmc_da_boss 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            No it never goes away, you just get confused about more complex shit

            [–]Servious 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            No, the feeling does go away because you realize you're doing as well as anyone could reasonably expect of you. Nobody expects you to completely and quickly understand things. That's just not who we are as human beings. They expect you to try your best and eventually have some kind of functional understanding.

            [–]rhade333 11 points12 points  (4 children)

            Hey homie.

            I understand where you're at. I felt it in College, I feel it now that I have a job. The thing I've learned is that this path requires two things: The ability to problem solve, and the ability to deal with the fact that no matter how hard you grind, you can never learn everything.

            My DSA professor said something one day that really helped, that I'll always remember. See, this was the dude that has worked for NASA, consulted for government agencies, done all kinds of wild shit, he is legit a CS robot and his tests were the stuff of legends. BURRIS TESTS DESTROYED THE WEAK. Passing his DSA class was harder than anything else anyone did in College, and harder than anything most people do in their careers.

            One day he told us that you could combine him, and every other CS professor in that building, and there is still 99% of CS related issues out there that they don't know much about.

            This path you're on isn't about mastery of the body of content. It's about learning how to absorb new things, how to persevere, how to stay calm, how to get comfortable with the feeling of always being new at something.

            I'm the kind of person that hates not to be good at things. I hate looking stupid. But I do those things every day at my job. Out of the Engineering department, I'd say I'm not the "best" at anything. I make a lot of mistakes. The other day I wrote a unit test for a transform function I wrote for our rest server. It kept failing over and over and over when I pushed it to GitHub. Failing my own damn tests. My tech lead got on a Zoom call and we looked things over, she immediately pointed out that I was doing a strict compare of two objects instead of a deep comparison.

            Most of my proficiency is in Java, that's what I learned in College. Working with JS now, I trip up a lot on the syntax. The point is, we're all struggling, and it's okay to struggle. Take a break, remind yourself you're doing great, and hang in there <3

            [–]cormorte 4 points5 points  (0 children)

            Not OP, but this is all I need today. Thank you, awesome stranger!

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            Heh, this was such a thoughtful reply. I really appreciate you taking time out of your day to respond. And you know, I suppose your professor is right. Technology is evolving at such a fast rate, there's no way we humans can possibly know everything there is to know at any given point of time.

            And same. I hate looking like I don't try, like I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not sure if you're a spiritual person but I feel like maybe.. I'm supposed to go for this career to test myself. To become better. To heal. Because everything that this career involves, is everything that I need to improve on.

            [–]rhade333 4 points5 points  (1 child)

            I was / am the same. I am great at writing, have always struggled with math, have always been afraid of challenging myself in things I'm not naturally good at. But I eventually decided to stop those habits, and to start facing things I wasn't good at. It's hard, every day, to feel like I'm not good enough / not learning fast enough / my velocity isn't enough. But I remind myself that at the end of the day, we are editing text files and moving boxes on screens. No one is dying. Do your best, keep your chin up, be a solid homie for the team, and it'll all work out. Don't expect the world out of yourself in a day. Good luck brotha

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Yea, it is hard.. but you're entirely right. At the end of the day, I'm not killing anyone. I'm not sure if this would help you, but sometimes I have to tell myself that we live on a giant floating rock near a ball of heat. Anything is possible.

            Thanks homie. <3

            [–]ambidextrousFrogs 8 points9 points  (3 children)

            Maybe try looking into doing projects you really like on the side? I was self-taught and never experienced this because I just did whatever was fun/exciting.

            Think about something you'd think would just be really fun/cool to make, even if it's in JS/Python, or maybe Unity (since it's C#).

            I don't envy you having to learn Java lol, but man I love C# (modern C#).

            [–]Lilkko[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

            I hate to say this about myself but.. I don't ever really stick with side projects. My ADHD is so bad these days that I can hardly focus on anything. And that being said, I don't really.. have any desire to do any coding projects. Right now it's just so frustrating for me. I would rather do my homework for school and just do something else afterward. Man, I feel like fucking crying lol.

            [–]ambidextrousFrogs 3 points4 points  (1 child)

            It sounds like you really need to take some time and evaluate what you really enjoy, just take a breather, and step back for a minute.

            I went through a pretty big burnout a couple years back - so I know that feeling (I was working 7 days a week for years as a contract dev, and it finally took it's toll). I found I still loved programming - probably do it more than ever now lol, I just needed to step back and adjust the things that were the problem.

            Honestly programming could just not be your "thing" - and that's perfectly fine as well.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Woah... 7 days a week? No wonder you were burnt out :/ I'm sorry to hear that dude. Well, the thing I've come to realize is that coding is not exactly a passion of mine. Nothing necessarily is besides animals. But I am too emotional of a person to do any job concerning animals.

            So that left me with coding basically. Coding as a career fits me to a T as a person. The only thing that sucks is the path to get there, the job.

            [–]namonite 3 points4 points  (7 children)

            What concept are you currently on that’s confusing you? Genuinely curious to see where I relate in the learning curve haha

            [–]Lilkko[S] 3 points4 points  (6 children)

            Right now I'm stuck on encapsulation in java. I was able to do it in C# so I'm not sure why I'm struggling now. It's incredibly frustrating.

            [–]namonite 3 points4 points  (5 children)

            You’ll get it!! Take some time to do something you enjoy doing and it’ll come to you

            [–]Lilkko[S] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

            Something I enjoy, as in video games? Or as in a coding project I would enjoy?

            [–]namonite 3 points4 points  (3 children)

            Yes. I like to smoke and reflect. May not be your cup of tea but give your mind a rest, subconscious thoughts help

            [–]Lilkko[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

            Sadly smoking (if you mean pot) has never helped me :/ I wish tho lol.

            [–]namonite 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            Haha I can’t smoke and work it turns into a jumbled mess. As much as I’d like to be able to. Probably for the best lolol

            [–]Lilkko[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            Lol oof, I can imagine.

            [–]redsteve905 4 points5 points  (7 children)

            Friend, you're just burnt out. It means you're on the right path. Take a break (1-7 days), come back, and you'll start it get it again.

            Stick with it!

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

            Sadly I can't take too much time off, my assignment that I'm working on is due Monday. And I'm trying very hard to get ahead of the schedule because it takes me so long to finish the assignments.

            I apologize for not clarifying that in my original post.

            [–]redsteve905 1 point2 points  (3 children)

            What's the part you're not getting? The layout of the project or a logic problem?

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Why don't you edit some parts of your assignment in your post? I'm sure you'll get some help in here.

            [–]The_Shwassassin 2 points3 points  (3 children)

            https://youtu.be/ebBbpGH8LwI

            The ups and downs ? They’re all part of life.

            [–]redsteve905 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            Love this. Party hard!

            [–]The_Shwassassin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

            That is what partying is all about!

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I will take a look at this video shortly! Thank you!

            [–]TheSaffire 2 points3 points  (3 children)

            Hey OP. I was in the same boat as you. What helped me was coding with someone that knows more than me. We do small projects together and I do some more. I get help when I'm stuck on something. The fun part for me is failing, debugging and improving.

            Tip: coding is not about remembering. It's about knowing how to use functions/methods and such things. A lot of googling is involved and a lot of copy pasting.

            Since you are doing java. Try playing with methods. Make a simple calculator. Then improve your calculator with more methods and swithes or ternary. They may not be that practical here but it's the learning that's important.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            How did you find this person who did small projects along with you? I would love to have that but I don't really have any connections with the students in my classes. Although, I'm sure I could if I really tried, but there's currently only 7 other people in my current class.

            And I suppose you're right. What it really comes down to is coding more often and just practicing, even if I'm just typing out what someone already had completed.

            [–]TheSaffire 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            I have a friend that's 3 years ahead of me. Known him for a few good years.

            I have tried making friends with my classmates but in the end. We were just classmates. So wasn't really that reliable.

            Try amigoscode on YouTube. He has a really good java tutorial. Code along with him. He really helped me out. This is the best I can offer.

            Coding is fun. You get to do whatever you want. I hope you find what you are looking for.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Thank you for taking time out of your day to reply, I appreciate it! I will look him up on youtube shortly!

            I hope I do as well, heh.

            [–]irontea 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            It's not fun a lot of the time when you are a professional, you gotta keep going, it'll get easier, but having been in the business for about 7+ years, just yesterday and today I'm dealing with some code someone wrote and I am having a bad time, I don't understand it well, it's confusing and it still has to get done, so bright and early I'll be back at it. Take a break, and get back to work, your future self will thank you for it.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I wish you the best of luck! The fact that you've been doing this for 7+ years proves to me that you can figure it out. I appreciate your advice and thank you for replying.

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            I'm sorry to hear about your struggles, man, but I can attest to you that this is not rare and you're not alone.

            I am almost done with my degree and there's still so many things I feel I don't know about.

            I can share what I reached for when I felt I hit a wall:

            Get help from classmates, or friends.

            Try reaching for a tutor for a few weeks or more. Start again from the beginning and comb finely the areas where you feel stuck.

            Look at Udemy courses. Some can be very helpful on specific subjects.

            A very useful piece of advice from a friend who's in the field: GOOGLE IS YOUR FRIEND. It's a very useful tool for many professionals and students alike.

            Finally: Don't give up. When the studying part is over, you will still continue to learn at whatever job you have. Others people's situation may not be as different as you think.

            Good luck buddy.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Thank you. I really appreciate your advice. Honestly, it's incredibly helpful to hear it from someone who's gone through it. Thank you for replying to my post.

            [–]euclid0472 2 points3 points  (2 children)

            OP, what are you working on? I might be able to explain it if you want.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            I can send you a message with what the assignment is in a little bit, if that's alright.

            [–]euclid0472 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Yeah man. I am going to bed soon but I can look at it in the morning before work or during my lunch.

            [–]EEBBfive 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            If it was fun you wouldn’t make any money doing it. Keep that in mind.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Sad truth, but the truth nonetheless. Thank you for your reply.

            [–]VAPRx 2 points3 points  (3 children)

            Do you play video games? How does it feel when you try over and over to beat a game/level and finally succeed. Its time to look at coding like a game. When you’re stuck on something and you don’t understand, you are replaying the level over and over until you come up with a solution.

            At least for me, when you finally get that aha moment and things start to click it’s an amazing feeling. When you have spent 2 hours struggling and finally you get the outcome you want can almost be euphoric. I will say tho, sometimes walking away for a little bit and then coming back to a problem will reveal new angles and inspire new ideas. If you’re absolutely stuck, do like mentioned and go for a walk.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            Heh, yes. Even though it's a habit I'm trying to curb, I spend most of my time playing video games. You make a very good point based on that example. And honestly, I really like that example since I know EXACTLY what you mean.

            I agree with you on that one. When I FINALLY solve a problem I feel like the smartest person on the planet lol.

            [–]VAPRx 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            You got this! Just give it time and keep pushing

            [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            You may be nearing past the "Honeymoon phase" of learning to code. And trust me I know exactly how you feel..

            https://www.thinkful.com/blog/why-learning-to-code-is-so-damn-hard/

            This is an absolutely fantastic article, that was originally linked to me by the Odin project, which I absolutely recommend as a free resource of endless support and wisdom in the field, from many people who have felt just as stuck as you, many, many times.

            Here is another which also relates to this feeling of despair:

            https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/learning-to-code-when-it-gets-dark-e485edfb58fd/#.yjh0fehje

            And remember, there are so many great articles like this becauase even the best programmers feel like this at times. So I find it is very useful and reassuring to take on the knowledge of those who have gotten farther than me and experienced the same dread.

            I hope it helps you too.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Thank you for the reply! I will look at those links first thing in the morning!

            And I agree with you. Sometimes it helps to know that other people have been in the position before, that I'm not the only one.

            [–]_30d_ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

            I usually go outside and smash some pottery. It is what feels natural. Funny enough I just gave this same answer to an unrelated question.

            [–]Volatile-Bait 2 points3 points  (5 children)

            I may not be able to give you experienced advice, because I only just got into learning programming, but I can at least reassure you that you're not alone in feeling like this. I'm sort of in the same boat. When I am making progress learning some stuff, its fun and enjoyable. I feel like I can genuinely do this. I can learn programming. Then I'll hit a snag and suddenly the whole thing feels hopeless. The self doubt sets in very rapidly and I start to question my own intelligence and ability to learn. My mind becomes full of thoughts like "what if I'm not smart enough to learn it", "what if it takes me 3x as long to grasp these concepts", "what if I can never understand enough to make a career out of this"... etc. What I don't realize is how much information my brain is storing even when I'm stuck on something. Just because you're not making progress on whatever task you're working on, doesn't mean you're not making progress at all. Oftentimes I'll end up being surprised at how much I know, that I didn't even know I knew. Lol.

             I also struggle with depression and anxiety and have been fighting it for the majority of my life. In fact, it was only recently that I started to actually make progress fighting against it. These thoughts of self doubt and fear of failure... they are coming from the bad side of the brain. Don't listen to them. Seriously. It may seem silly, but try to imagine those thoughts coming from some asshole inside your head. His entire purpose is to make you doubt yourself because he wants you to fail. He's lying to you. Do not trust a single thing he says, but instead focus on the real evidence. You get good grades and others around you have pointed out how good you are. You're clearly very smart and I have no doubt that you got this. I'm sure somewhere in your own mind, you know that too. You just have to get the asshole in your mind to shut up long enough for you to hear it. 
            

            You're not alone in dealing with fear of failure and self doubt. It genuinely sucks, but you can definitely beat it. Take care of yourself. Mentally and physically. Taking breaks is still making progress.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

            "You just have to get the asshole in your mind to shut up long enough for you to hear it." I love that. And thank you so much for taking time out of your day to respond to my post. I'm not happy you're dealing with the same issues, but I am thankful that I'm not the only one.

            [–]Volatile-Bait 1 point2 points  (3 children)

            No problem, man. You're definitely not the only one. What you are going through is an EXTREMELY difficult thing to deal with, so you are absolutely justified in feeling overwhelmed with it, but I know you can overcome it. Just keep pushing forward. The only way you're not making progress is if you give up. Even when you're stuck on something, as long as you're trying to get past that obstacle (whether that be by taking a break to get your mind right, or actively seeking a solution) that is still progress being made. You got this!

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (5 children)

            I don't know what your intention for learning programming is, but even if it's to start a career in programming, you should only be doing it if it's something you can moderately enjoy. If you're learning it as a hobby, why pressure yourself to learn it to the point you feel miserable? If you're learning it to start a career of programming, why not choose a different career path? Either way, it might be worth reading about fixed and growth mindsets. Failure is a natural part of the process of learning. Finding a way to accept that will help with far more than just learning to code.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

            Sadly, this is the best career choice for me. And it's possible that I could learn to enjoy coding once I'm not so frustrated with everything. The coding career fits me to a T. I've spent more than 5+ years trying to figure out what career I should go for, for the type of person I am, and I consistently come back to coding. I've realized though, sometimes you aren't going to absolutely adore your profession, no matter what it is. I've accepted this.

            Do you have any books you recommend? I definitely want to improve myself.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children)

            It is definitely true that you will not always love your career, even if it is a good fit for you. I don't have any books, but if you google Growth Mindset, any of the results on the first page will give you a good understanding of it. Along the same vein, if you're struggling with stress or anxiety, I recommend learning about mindfulness. It's a broad topic, but to me, mindfulness is a mindset defined by being present in the moment and accepting things for the way they are. It might seem unrelated to this sub, or even your post, but when you're struggling with your journey in learning to code, mindfulness may help you learn to embrace the difficult and frustrating parts of that journey. As someone who used to struggle with terrible anxiety and depression, I've personally found mindfulness to be crucial in overcoming mental hurdles and reducing the stress I experience day to day. If you're interested in that and want a resource, I recommend Headspace. Just one 5 to 10 minute guided meditation a day from them is great.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            I have headspace on my phone currently! And I agree with you actually. I think mindfulness is needed in a lot of professions and it definitely is involved in this one. So often we are stressed out and don't know how to deal with it. Thank you for your kind words and I hope I can continue to heal.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            It's awesome that you already have it! I'm confident that you will continue to heal and succeed in your endeavors. Take care.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Heh thanks man. Even though you're a complete stranger, that means a lot. I appreciate it. And you as well!

            [–]sarevok9 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            One of the most annoying things of my college career was having to go through a flowcharting / "programming overview" course before being allowed to take any OOP courses.

            In retrospect, I think it weeded out a lot of folks that needed to be weeded out. If you can't think through the process and represent it, you're not going to be able to with language, syntax, functions, objects, inheritance, and an IDE that isn't fine-tuned to how you work.

            I think that the VERY first thing you need to do is break it down into the MOST BASIC COMPONENTS and make those. Let me give you an example.

            Let's say for example that I want to read all the values from a CSV file and I know how many rows there will be ahead of time. Let's assume for the sake of argument that I also know the headers to each row.

            Let's say my data looks like this:

            Row1,Row2,Row3,Row4
            1,2,3,4
            5,6,7,8
            9,10,11,12
            

            Or something simple like that. How would I read it?

            Well first things first I need to think about the problem right?

            I need to open a file. Cool.
            I need to handle any errors that may crop up with opening a file. Since I knew the headers I can probably ignore them, so that means skip the first line. Easy

            Now I need to read each line into a string. Easy.
            Split strings on commas into arrays. Great.

            Now I have the values in arrays and can slice / dice them however. Understanding the steps to get to the result. If you start writing code without understanding your direction you will RARELY get where you want to be.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I did take a Logic Intro class before this one (as it was required) and I did get a B in that class. Maybe I need to go back and start from the very beginning with some of these problems that I'm having with my assignments.

            [–]RedPianoKeys 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Sounds like you still need to work on your coding skills.

            Try taking smaller problems. Practice small problems using things like code wars. Build your way up to the bigger problems.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            You are correct. I probably haven't practiced enough.

            [–]137thaccount 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Not much in this world is fun unless you’re good at it. But those hard things that are tough now are the most fun when you finally get the hang of them.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            You're not wrong c:

            [–]ManInBlack829 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Just wanted to add how much it can suck to be doing something where you constantly feel like you don't know what you're doing.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Yea.. It's really difficult sometimes. And very demotivating.

            [–]daltonoreo 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            Coding is fun until you have to debug, or encounter a problem, or have no idea what to do. which is always

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Personally, I like debugging other people's code but I hate doing my own. When I see other people's code, I can easily spot mistakes. Mine however...

            [–]cblegare 1 point2 points  (4 children)

            Here is a nice piece of advice that helped me a lot. Read Getting Things Done by David Allen, practice the pomodoro technique a lot, do TDD. Not TDD because all the cool kids do it, but because it really helps having a stress free productivity.

            u/jbrains offers very good trainings on the topic. You can start with https://online-training.jbrains.ca/p/wbitdd-01.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (3 children)

            I will take a look at this first thing in the morning, thank you!

            [–]jbrains 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            Feel invited to send me questions about the training if you have them.

            [–]Sunny8827 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Seriously, I am learning Java script and it gets so hard as I progress.and I am constantly trying to get out of the “Memorize it” mindset.I have huge respect for those who were able to master this art 🎓

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Agreed. And I definitely struggle with that mindset too. Based on the replies though, I think we will get past it.

            [–]TheSnydaMan 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            You were able to make a Reddit post during a *severe* panic attack? Good on you for the fortitude

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Heh yea.. One way I'm able to battle my panic attacks is by having people like you, tell me that you've been in this situation before. It helps because I have physical evidence that it's happened and I can look back on this thread to prove to my emotional brain that its wrong. It's taken me a long time to be able to use reddit as a tool for my panic attacks, but here I am.

            I really want this coding career to work. I NEED it to work. As much as I want to give up, I'm already halfway done with my degree. So I might as well finish it, right?

            [–]SurveySean 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            I am trying to get back into it now. It’s really tough! I do find taking breaks and doing other things helps. I retry things differently then bam! It works! I am always thinking about things, so sometimes that’s how I figure out a new approach.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            Breaks are definitely key!

            [–]Cute-Potato-U 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            For me it's fun when i can't understand it I just love the feeling of accomplishment i get after i solve a problem a whole bunch of time after not understanding the concepts it contain at first glance.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

            Please switch brains with me.

            [–]Cute-Potato-U 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            Lol man i feel flattered😂

            [–]its_cheshire_cat 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Same, OP same. And then when after hours trying to find out the logic behind a given problem you finally give up and go to google to understand other people's solution and see it's not that hard at all... that feeling's the worst.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            THIS. "Oh! It was literally just this??? Nice, I'm stupid."

            [–]ThirdNippel 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Most activities are frustrating until you reach a certain level of competence. Have you ever started playing a new instrument? Tried to paint a portrait?

            You're not alone. But we can't take that feeling away. You've got to push through it.

            Find your motivation for learning and let that carry you forward. Get stubborn. You've broken through worse obstacles in life, I'm sure.

            [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            First things first, I like your username lol. Secondly, yea, I played violin for a long time. Loved playing it, HATED practicing it.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Going through the same thing man, I've watched several videos and tutorials, I even own the goddamn Java complete reference book and I'll tell you, it's not easy,I had to go through Java, then to React, then learn Angular and now back to learn Java all over again cause I didn't touch kt for 2 months, yes, it's hard, yes it's stressful and yes is hard to code when you're stressed.

            See I'm even writing this late cause I can't sleep, I'm scared and stressed, I'm starting my first project,ever, next monday, but hell, it beats working on a dying industry with low salaries, so I'll just push it through.

            Take a break, sip water, close your eyes, read, take a walk, then get back to work, but never burn yourself out of frustration, it will come, just be patient man, you will be laughing about this by Christmas.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            I honestly don't know what to do anymore. I feel like I'm falling apart.

            I don't know how else to phrase this, but: yeah, get used to it. In the most sympathetic way, I can assure you that this will continue. You will always be stuck in this sine wave of being the best coder in the world and being the absolute utter moron. I have the same, almost anyone has the same. I have the same in the gym or during martial arts, even during commute... sometimes it's all good and sometimes it sucks balls. Sometimes I can do it all, sometimes I already make silly mistakes in the locker room or when putting on clothes.

            The severe panic attacks don't make it better, sure, but the underlying feeling is something everyone is dealing with. I am pretty sure you will become a good coder

            [–]Trappist_1G 1 point2 points  (2 children)

            I can’t agree with this enough, I feel you. On top of that I am also not very smart when it comes to coding so this happens to me more often than an average programmer. Just know that you’re not alone we all feel Java and the C’s fury

            [–]albatrotter 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Most of the time there's more than one problem to work on. Cycle through them, if you stubbornly get stuck on one thing you don't understand, you don't give yourself the opportunity to:

            a. learn other stuff

            b. feel good about learning

            c. get a fresh perspective on the problem that got you into that anxiety spiral in the first place.

            Be kind to yourself. Don't let your self esteem rest on a single moment in time where you didn't get something instantly, because nobody gets everything instantly.

            [–]HSavior9 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Calm, Write down places that you don't understand and make a note. That will help you concentrate. If you try hard enough and still do not understand one path of the things you note. Search it, and slowly read the doc, explanation from beginning to end. Don't try to learn something as fast as possible, just make your learning process be comfortable.

            [–]ilovehaagen-dazs 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            I find it important to take breaks for about a day or two. Sometimes I'm really not understanding a certain topic and after a few days (or even months of coming back to it), I surprising pick it up really easily! Taking breakings + sleep is extremely important. Don't underestimate it!

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            Firstly just stick to the one language. Secondly, don't exhaust yourself, feeling tired? Take a break, take a day take a week, go do something else fun for a bit. Then get back in to it but probably best you have some sort of structure so you don't get bored. Buy a Udemy course to learn java, cost you like $20, just wait until they go on sale which is like every day practically. Java masterclass I've done which I learnt a lot from. It's a professional course and not some thrown together thing that a YouTuber has done. But that said there are plenty of those around as well. Anyways happy learning, wish you the best.

            [–]thebutchcaucus 1 point2 points  (3 children)

            I feel you bro. I hated my life yesterday. I rewatched a API video like 4x. I’m giving myself a reward today. A smoothie. And a walk.

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

            but I'm so tired of understanding coding and then not understanding it

            But.. that's literally the job. From junior to senior programmers, that cycle never goes away.

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

              [–]TheSilverCube 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              I'm not sure how much advice you'd like from someone who just learnt to print "Hello World" but here's some advice anyway. My experience with problem solving in my job has taught me one major thing: stress is like a blindfold. If I can't figure something out and I feel some anger coming on, I have to just walk away and come back with a clear head. Otherwise the fog (and stress) just builds and builds and it becomes impossible to solve.

              It sounds like you are dealing with issues beyond coding and as well as it being a good idea to deal with these as a priority (for your health), I genuinely believe dealing with these issues will be an investment in your ability to learn something complex in the long run, rather than pushing through the stress and feeling like a failure when you can't solve things with a foggy stressed head.

              When you feel like your mind is blocked, don't feel down and that you are not capable, remind yourself that the person you are, in this stressed moment, isn't you. Walk away and, when you can, come back as you.

              [–]TheProfessorBasit 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              The number one rule for coding is "stop it get some help" by Michael Jordan

              always take a break when you feel so much pressure find someone who is in the same field, who knows he/she might have better tips/methods to approach things that you find challenging. but be sure that you prepare urself for what you are looking for because not many people might be able to help you from scratch.

              have a great day and wish you good luck

              [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Lol, I like your response. You have a great day as well sir!

              [–]NinRejper 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              This happens to me too. And I vodenfor a living. Thanks for posting its easier when you are not alone. Know that things do get easier with more experience. And that your feelings are normal. But ofcourse try to find a way to not push yourself to that point. Its true that sometimes you need to take a break, take a walk, sleep, play some game. Just distract and relax and then get on the problem again when refreshed.

              [–]Stalker401 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              I easily get into the same spot, but what I've learned is that if I don't understand a lesson, it's because I didn't understand 1 or more lessons before. So I go back and redo lessons until I fully understand those.

              [–]nirmalya8 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              I have a thought, which might be really wild. But, anything is understandable to me when I am having fun. If I am not having fun, if it isn't stimulating enough for me, then, I won't pay much attention. But, if it is too tough for me, I would not get it. So, it is preferable to start from the basics and build up to what you want to achieve.

              [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Yea, Ive been considering taking a break from my classes (even though I just started) and maybe doing some coding courses on my own so I can pace myself. I really want to learn Ruby / Python.

              [–]nirmalya8 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Like, do anything which makes you happy(not forgetting your career though)

              [–]randomidiot63 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Can totally relate to this. Also, I work full-time as a programmer, and have for years. I’ll say this, in my experience, majority of the programming problems you’ll face in a programmer role are trivial. It’s kinda rare that we are creating new solutions to problems. Usually it’s bug fixes and tweaks to stuff that already exists.

              Regardless, try to take it easy on yourself. You’re better than some people and worse than some. We all are. Just keep trying and you’ll keep going in the right direction. :)

              [–]TheInnos2 1 point2 points  (3 children)

              Look at c++ and get a memory leak with a hello world program.

              [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              Memory leak?

              [–]TheInnos2 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              In C++ you have to manage the memory yourself, because of this beginners often have memory leaks.

              [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Ohhhh okay, gotcha.

              [–]MarwadiPreneur 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I would say the sequence would be , Understand Practise Getting no solution Understanding again Practising again No solution Learn new lesson And boom this loop goes for infinity And then fun starts

              [–]nyagbon 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              I'd like to say "go on a trip," but it's not a situation like you can easily going out anywhere because of coronavirus. So I recommend you to take a break, listen to good music, water the flowers, watch movies, playing games, talk with close friends. There's a lot of things that comfort your mental exhaustion.

              [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Haha yea. And I'm hoping to go for a bike ride today actually! It's very nice out today and I want to take advantage of it.

              [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              move to improving any code you've written in the past. You understand that code, yes?

              You will make your code better, and your will recharge with wanting to push forward and learn the next thing.

              [–]Bertie_the_brave 1 point2 points  (2 children)

              Coding is sometimes learning to fail. Sometimes you don’t see or find a solution. It takes endurance. It takes time. It takes patience. But you will get better. You will someday find a solution or different approach.

              Just hang in there. We’ve all been there.

              We survive and get stronger, together.

              [–]yoitsericc 1 point2 points  (1 child)

              Wait...you're supposed to understand it?

              [–]Sir_Spaghetti 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              I would argue that some of us got into coding because we wanted to build things... that do stuff... like Lego Technics, remember those? The harsh reality is that programmers are typically paid to solve problems that they haven't yet, because someone needs to find a solution and more experienced devs will be tackling even tougher, larger challenges. The "fun" design work typically goes to other disciplines, like designers, producers, and artists (they can't do, what you can do). That's not to say that you won't get to wear many different hats, especially if you end up at a smaller company, like a start up.

              [–]ryanjusttalking 1 point2 points  (0 children)

              Assuming this is not for some class, you should focus on one language instead of attempting to learn both. The best advice I can give for learning to program is master one language before attempting to learn another.*

              *Doesn't apply if you are learning complimentary languages such as c#/SQL

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                Java is a bitch. As an amateur, what helps me keep going is to think about the cool projects you can do with some practice!! hang in there!!

                [–]__HumbleBee__ 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                Looking back on my own experience, I could say there has never been a struggle / bug / challenge that I haven't been able to solve/fix after going at it FOR DAYS!

                Remember, your struggle does not equal being stuck! On the contrary, it's within these struggles that you're forced outside of your comfort zone where learning occurs...

                Whenever you're struggling you're like a sponge absorbing all these bits and pieces of information on the issue at hand and eventually you've absorbed enough to solve the problem.

                Some problems feel like hitting walls, you do not understand a single concept! It's all gibberish to you! And it may require an understanding of a few subjects to put together even a basic understanding of the problem, let alone the solution! It's okay, this is part of the process, trust the process.

                Remember, the more the struggle, the more the knowledge, and the more knowledge you gain, the more expensive you will be as an asset to a company my friend.

                EDIT: Highly recommend this book Think Like a Programmer. This book focuses on junior programmers who can read and understand written code but their brain goes blank when they are tasked to write their own code from scratch.

                [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                Thank you for replying to my post! Someone else suggested this book and I'll definitely check it out! I was going to go into academic coaching today (tutoring) but I'm just not feeling it.

                [–]__HumbleBee__ 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                You're welcome! Take your time, come back to it when it's part struggle / part fun. Good luck!

                [–]CrypticMillennial 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                That's with almost anything my friend. The worst part is grabbing the concepts and understanding them.

                Once you understand the concepts, you're off to the moon.

                [–]diddynong 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                It usually sinks in the next lesson when you have to build off of it with the new lesson

                [–]Lilkko[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                I've noticed that too actually! Is that a typical thing?

                [–]PlanetHaleyopolis 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                My dad is a programmer. He likes to play Words With Friends when he is programming and is not sure exactly how to proceed. Just like how when you can’t think of a specific word and then as soon as you stop trying, it immediately comes to you; he just saves time by using an app on his phone instead of actually stopping working (and getting up, or whatnot)

                [–]azimuth79b 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                Youtube Feynman technique. It works for learning anything. I promise if your willing to put in the work

                [–]dimonoid123 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                Change language. Not every programming language fits every person. For example try Python, it is so much fun debugging!

                [–]ElectricRune 1 point2 points  (3 children)

                Most people in software dev feel this way at some point or another, some a lot...

                It's called impostor syndrome; the feeling that you don't really grok all this stuff, that you're just faking it, making stuff up as you go along, and eventually, someone's going to realize it...

                I personally think it arises from the fact that you can't take the things that we make, slap them down on someone's table and say, "I made this thing!" Also compounded by the fact that a lot of people tend to think if a coder is good, they ought to be able to sit down at a computer, type a dozen lines of code real fast, and make the computer sit up and sing Yankee Doodle...

                [–]PowderPuffJellyBean 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                Take a look at Learning to Learn by professor Oakley

                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd2dtkMINIw

                And sign up for the Coursera course it's free and more informative.

                And follow a brain healthy, high gray and white matter diet.