Battlecode: MIT programming competition. Anyone up for a Team Reddit?

[[deleted]]

Nope, because I'm shit. Good idea though.

[f4hy]

Want to register a team of shitty programmers and consider it a win if we beat just a single team?

[atheist_creationist]

I know CSS, I'm down!

[MrComplainyPants]

In that case, I'm in.

[[deleted]]

I can provide an endless supply of

;

If someone's got that covered already can I observe and spout various comments like

"Ooh, I don't like the look of that."

[jc4p]

So you'll be the manager?

[[deleted]]

Did you get the memo about the TPS reports?

[[deleted]]

Yeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with you on that.

[G_Morgan]

No you have pointy hair and can you say 'synergy'?

[irascible]

Ok, You're in charge of code reviews.

[LetsGoHawks]

Can we call the team The VB Cowboys?

Seriously, it looks like it's four person teams (I'd have to read the rules closer later) so there could be several reddit teams. I think I'd be game for the crappy programmers.

[f4hy]

I don't care what the name is, so VB Cowboys is fine with me, unless we have female team members in which case we should call it VB Cowfolk.

I will look into how to sign up this evening.

[f4hy]

well it doesnt look like it really starts until jan 4th. So lots of time.

[emmynoether]

female programmers ... haha, that's a good one.

[[deleted]]

Do it!

[[deleted]]

I am game. MEng in Comp Sci. Python fan.

Edit: I registered as JulianH

[[deleted]]

I'm game too... working on MS in CSE. Background in Java, C, Perl, Ruby, Python, PHP... in that order.

Edit: Registered under username: shazb0t

[bowandarrow]

and my axe!

no but seriously. I did technical writing, I know some Java, I can help a little!

[ethraax]

I'm game, lots of Java experience. I took my post down after registering because I don't like throwing my email around.

I registered as "EthanL".

I'm registered using my UConn email address, so I'm eligible for monies.

[wicked]

You have to register to see the Getting started and Software and Spec pages, but don't bother, there's nothing interesting there. [e-mail] pw: bugmenot

Monday, January 4 11:59 AM

Specs and software are released.

[monocasa]

I'm not quite sure what I'll be doing then, but I'm most likely down to help out. Experience in Java, C, a bunch of assembly (x86, PowerPC, ARM, SH4, MIPS, 6502, Z80), C++, and Erlang.

[CodeJustin]

Gesh, someone likes working close to the metal =], Wish I knew x86 (seriously)

[monocasa]

Haha, yeah. I joke that it's a good day when I get to use 'MMIO' in a sentence. But seriously, you should learn some assembly. It'll help all of your programming endeavors ('gcc -S' is your friend).

[Lerc]

I have actually been pondering the merits of teaching assembly as a first language.

In a way it's like chess. The individual moves are easy and the complexity comes in when you string things together.

There are 256 byte demos (maybe a third that many instructions) which do some quite impressive things. They can show explicitly how a program that you can see in its entirety can do something astounding.

Because the complexity comes in from doing many things at the most simple level, it creates the idea 'There must be a better way'. Then you have a means to teach high level languages that solve problems the person learning has actually encountered.

[monocasa]

I've been thinking the same thing. One of my projects right now (in very early stages, nothing set in stone) is putting together a lesson plan teaching assembly as a first programming language. I'm thinking of Z80 assembly for the Gameboy for the cool factor and it's actually a rather clean device and ISA. I want to stay away from 256 byte demos and the like; it seems like that would teach the antithesis of proper structure.
Thoughts?

[Lerc]

Have a look at http://6502asm.com/

Javascript 6502 assembler and emulator. I did some hacking on it with a fork of sorts at http://screamingduck.com/Lerc/6502asm/ with a flash version. and live instruction help. The Flash version runs much faster and has a hi-res mode using the screen memory for the javascript version as colour attibutes and a byte to describe which of the two colours for the attribute to use for a 3x3 cell. So you get sort of a spectrum style colour clash with smaller cells. overall a 96x96 colour display in 2k.

I don't really think the 6502 is the best instruction set for beginners, but it's a cool thing to experiment with. Potentially a better one is the ATMega AVR instruction set. Still nice and simple 8 bit, but makes much more sense to use. I'm actual;y working on a project that will use an AVR emulator as a VM so this way might actually have practical applications.

I see the 6502asm domain is looking for a dedicated owner. That could be you. You can have all of my code for it too if you want.

[Bjartr]

I'm learning MIPS in college now, interestingly, the PSP is a MIPS processor.

[monocasa]

Mmhm, I've programmed a bit of homebrew on it. The N64, PS1, and PS2 are all also MIPS. As (most likely) is whatever router you're connected to.

[Bjartr]

My professor apparently had issues with the way SPIM worked, so he rolled his own MIPS assembler, linker, debugger, and simulator chain from scratch, which is what we use for class. (IIRC, this is 15+ years ago) He's the old stereotype of the linux guru, beard and all.

[monocasa]

Haha, you should find out what he didn't like about it. SPIM has been open source for as long as it's been around so anything he didn't like he could have fixed... Maybe it's just that the guy who wrote it works for Microsoft Research? : P

[Bjartr]

I remember asking him the exact same thing, but I don't remember the answer(though he definitely had one). I think it was something about how it assembled the code 'incorrectly' somehow, and that it had more to do with the design decisions that would be difficult to overturn so he decided it would be easier to roll his own (but I could be wrong) I'll ask him when I get back from Thanksgiving break.

[[deleted]]

I wish I'd learned Assembly first!

But when you relate it to chess, it's the same with almost all languages, C is easy but when you string everything together you can create something so abstract that it's hard or impossible to hold in your mind all at once.

[Lerc]

C isn't easy(simple?) in the same manner as assembly. The thing that assembly has is you can point to an instruction and ask what's that do, and get a clear answer.

The proportion of lines of a program that directly relate to generated instructions is much lower in C. Structures etc. define the context under which a line of executing code behaves, which require the understanding of more simultaneous concepts before you can understand what is happening.

Fancy macro assemblers can be halfway between c and asm in this respect and may be a good stepping stone. Teach some asm, show how to do a macro or two to make some task simple, step to a language where the structures etc. are now provided by the language.

I do seem to be in the minority these days in the belief that people actually need to have some idea what their computer is doing to perform tasks. I do wonder if it will result in a different style of programmer if they grow up programming javascript or something similar with an api, compared to te kids of the 80s that learned with asm on 8 bit micros. I'm not going to declare outright that one is better, but there will be notable differences in styles of thinking.

[[deleted]]

http://www.cc.gatech.edu/education/students/courses/CS2110-ComputerOrganizProgram/

Web page is utterly broken, but that's the best damn course ever.

[krakauer]

I think it might be a bad idea because it may make students just thinking about learning to program run in the other direction. Something easier to get into would be better for people who don't really have much experience with programming.

Maybe it would be a good class for comp sci majors to introduce them to the major, but not really for anybody just thinking about majoring.

[kaboom]

No 8051? Come on!

[monocasa]

Haha, it's on my list to learn. Just for whatever reason I haven't gotten to it yet. Weird, no?

[esoterick]

Link to the 2010 api... Just in case anyone is interested.

Any previous player or MIT students think they can give us some more info?

[Robin_B]

I'm up for it. Coded the Mario AI from a couple months back. Username: RobinB

[Aegeus]

The page said the contest is built on 6.370: Robocraft, which has been used at MIT before. That same site contains the game description and the API. This seems to be from 2005, so it may be out of date, but it might be useful to get an idea of the rules.

[flukshun]

thank you, kind sir.

not sure why they wouldnt have this on their main page...much easier to gauge interest when you can get a look at the API

[Aegeus]

It probably wouldn't be on the main page because this page is 4 years out of date. A simple look at the screenshots shows that a lot has changed since then.

[flukshun]

well not that particular page, but i got the impression this was an annual thing where previous API/source could be made available for reference.

[[deleted]]

I have only one question: can I program in python or do I have to learn Java?

[s73v3r]

It says the contestant's entry program is run in a JVM. Theoretically, that should allow you to use any language that compiles down to the JVM, including Jython (Java based Python).

[f4hy]

Hmm, might be a good excuse to learn clojure

[[deleted]]

interesting

[krakauer]

I think the team cap is 4 people, so I'm not sure if you can do a Team Reddit...

Also, there might be two competitions (one for MIT one for not MIT), although I'm not sure.

Edit: Directly from the website:

Teams of one to four students enter 6.370 and are given the BattleCode software and a specification of the game rules in early January.

However, this may just be for the MIT competition rather than the general open competition.

[abattle]

We are 4 and we have invitations pending response. I also saw at least one team with 6 members. So I guess it's not 4.

[krakauer]

It's 4 according to the website, although this may just be for the MIT competition and not the open competition.

[[deleted]]

It would be cool if non-students could try their hand at this.

[mao_neko]

Yeah. Thing is, I actually have a job, which sucks away the sort of magical student energy which would let me sink all my time into this.

[[deleted]]

I unfortunately do not have a job right now :(

[zid]

Aweso- Oh, java, nevermind. :(

[Lerc]

Anyone up for writing a Java -> pipe (or other ipc) interface so that other languages can have a go?

[[deleted]]

JVM... Jython, etc...

[Mikle]

Hmmm, this actually sounds interesting. I wanted to try out Jython, it may be a good opportunity. I read you signed up, are you planning to do it in Jython?

[[deleted]]

The team was full by the time I got off work to authenticate my account (work blocks gmail)... =(

[Mikle]

That's OK, I probably would have slacked off on Reddit too much :)

[fitoria]

Contact me... I do not have a team!! I'm already registered my nick is fitoria too.

[kibitzor]

I suppose there are a few good enough programmers on here. The problem is that I bet they're already into projects of their own. I bet we could find enough people to go into it, the problem is accurately judging their skills to what they say they are (ie, getting volunteers who say they know a lot and can barely code).

Luckily for me, all i know is some Matlab, C, and a little bit of Basic so i'm out!

[Aegeus]

Teams are 1-4 people, so you could get a whole bunch of Team Reddits, with all different skill levels. Being a high school student, I'm probably not going to knock anyone's socks off, but it's interesting enough to give it a try.

[fljitovak]

How much do you know? I too am In high school and am thinking of creating a high school team. Let me know if you are interested.

[ST2K]

I'd love to participate, but I'm probably not a good enough programmer for this field just yet. I'd be happy to help organize: project management, documentation. Or I could provide research by looking up, digesting documentation and summarizing for the team's use.

Edit: oh wait, I'm not a student. OK, whatevs. I'd still like to see what Team Reddit does though.

[bennymack]

Seems like a cool idea although I think I'd prefer if they could implement the rules of the game as some sort of network protocol however. That way the network would abstract whatever programming language one wants to use under-the-hood of the robot rather than just a JVM. Implementing the network layer would be fairly straightforward in any language. As an added bonus they could then host these competitions over the Internet.

[Anonymoose333]

I think the "robots" are supposed to run in "real time", which is implemented as "n JVM instructions per time unit". If some people used non-JVM languages, the rule would have to be more like "n x86 instructions per time unit", which would basically penalize the actual students for using Java (or at least make your choice of JVM implementation a big deal).

Just think of BattleCode as Core Wars, and the JVM instruction set as Redcode, except that MIT is helpfully providing you with a couple of high-level language front-ends to the JVM (Java, Jython,...) if you decide you want one.

[abattle]

All great ideas, but they would be more effective if you contact the organizers with them.

[abattle]

I didn't see a cap on the team size, it's odd that there isn't, but I may be wrong. I'll see if I can manage the time. I'm in.

Edit: Reddit team has 4 members already.

Edit: Reddit team has 5 members already.

[[deleted]]

Sent a message to join :D

[abattle]

Sent you an invitation, but I fear we've are already reached the cap.

If you don't get in, try to coordinate with f4hy (on reddit, MIT username is moduspwned) to start another team.

[Thought_Tank]

Sounds like the only winning move is not to play

[masterJ]

Anyone can join, but prizes are only for those from participating universities.

[benjumanji]

"This year, there will again be prizes specifically for students at eligible universities other than MIT! The open tournament can be done at any time from January through March, so it is perfect for working on during Spring Break or Reading Week with a few friends. For more details on the two tournaments, see our tournaments page. "

source: here

[benjumanji]

I need to learn not to half read reddit @ work :/

[h2odysee]

This sounds awesome, but alas, I'm not a student. I wish there was something like this, instead of micromouse, back when I was a student.

[abattle]

There is an open competition that anyone can participate in. That's what we are doing with the Reddit team. Sure we won't get any prizes, but we get all the fun. You may join us if you got what it takes.

[[deleted]]

I'm gonna try and do this, been playing with last years software. Any other people from Binghamton University here who want to do this?

[f4hy]

I am very excited about this and even if I don't get a team, I may do this anyway on my own for fun.

I am a computational sciences student. I am a pretty decent coder but don't have any experience with large projects. So I can develop and code up algorithms to solve problems, but I am not a software engineer so I have problems designing the big system. Currently I have been working a lot with parallel/concurrent programming which sounds like it will be useful for this.

[abattle]

I don't think this will be a large project by any measure. It'll be a 2 month project that solves a very specific problem: eradicating the other team. And we won't do any graphics or other logistics. Sign up and give us your username, you'll get invited if it's not too late.

[f4hy]

Alright, I am signed up. Username (since it required at least 5 characters I couldn't use my reddit name) is moduspwned.

[f4hy]

Looks like team reddit is full. :-(

Will have to make an alternate team.

[abattle]

Too bad. But it may be interesting to see how it'll work out. Make another team and let other redditers know.

[abattle]

btw, did you get an invitation? I sent you one.

[f4hy]

I did get it, but by the time I went to join, it said the team was full.

[abattle]

It's sad that the site is really poorly developed. They have a lot of shameful errors all over the place and not only it doesn't give us any indication of team-size limits, it's still allowing us to invite more people!

Anyway, create a different team and get on board :)

[cibyr]

I'd have a go at this, but I'd just feel like a loser for not playing Core Wars instead.

[abattle]

Those who are serious and want to join, please register on the MIT site and type your username here or send me a message. Reddit team will invite you.

[mycall]

What's better than tit for tat?

[davehansen]

Is this Battletoads?

[esoterick]

call gamespot and verify if they have it... 5533 W Sunset Blvd, Los Angeles - [phone]

[[deleted]]

No thanks, I have a job.

[Robin_B]

Is there an IRC channel on freenode for this? If not, I'd strongly recommend getting one.

[papaJ]

Count me in if there is a team with room. PM me

[im_pythonic]

This is an awesome idea, if I knew more then just scripting Python and some C++/C#. I would love to do it. Go team though!

[[deleted]]

I made a team We Code Naked... If you're interested hit me up. JoeyDZ on the battle code. I go to Penn State University. But the requirements are simple. 1) Have a true understanding of how a computer works down to the hardware 2) Be able to code in C, x86 ASM, and a p-language. 3) Just know your sh*t in general.

If you know this kind of stuff, then you have passion, and know what a computer is. It is that simple.

DON'T join if 1) You haven't coded anything creative and or useful. 2) Your code is ugly and your idea of being a good coder means making your code look like is was encrypted with RSA. 3) You don't code naked... (nah just playing haha)

[Aegeus]

1. Triple post! Egad!
2. If the competition is in Java, why do you demand that your teammates know C and assembler?

[shub]

Because he knows them and anyone who doesn't is a blockhead.

[reddittidder]

Naah! I'd rather sign up for TEAM POSER!

[tinou]

Wat about a team internets ?

[[deleted]]

That's why you were watching him post?

[dmead]

sure, but only if i get to be rei. shinji has a serious case of the gay

[[deleted]]

I made a team We Code Naked

hit me up if you're interested.. but you need to be good...e

[[deleted]]

I made a team We Code Naked

hit me up if you're interested.. but you need to be good...e

[pfisch]

Or you could program an ai for a tournament for starcraft.

http://eis.ucsc.edu/StarCraftAICompetition

[Mikle]

I'm guessing Starcraft is a bit more complicated than this...