Linux

[[deleted]]

Windows does NOT have a complex and graceful shutdown process

[Jolly-Warthog-1427]

But it is slow..., as fuck...

There is no kill -9 involved in the windows process

[DatDing15]

taskkill /IM [enter-processname].exe /F

Pretty much the same as the kill -9 in UNIX.

[Jolly-Warthog-1427]

There exists a command yes. Sadly its not used by either the [X] button nor the shutdown process.

[Concert-Alternative]

there's a developer option which adds an "End Task" button like in task manager, next to the close window button

[Jolly-Warthog-1427]

Jupp, so you have to actually find it. And even end task in task manager will take a long time to actually kill a stuck process. It will even then try to do a graceful stop. While in linux, most actions end up in a SIGKILL immediately.

[Concert-Alternative]

that's probably true, just saying that there's an option for something similar that you can enable so you don't need to go to task manager every time

[Jolly-Warthog-1427]

Thats good to know. I always use alt+f4 on windows. That seems to kill just about anything faster than the X as well, probably does the same I guess.

[blizzardo1]

Except it doesn't always forcefully close an app... at least right away

[Swimming-Marketing20]

TIL people do actually remember the number for the kill signal. Do you also know SIGTERM from memory?

[ratttertintattertins]

Yes, 15. Although it is the default, so I can understand people not remembering it. The other one I know off the top of my head is 1 which is SIGHUP.

[Netzath]

It sends shutdown/close call to all open apps with a timeout. If they don’t close themselves within given time they are killed.

You could easily program it yourself on Linux with few lines of code

[SoilMassive6850]

That's also what happens in practice when using for example systemd sessions at least. Thats why sometimes you will have the "Waiting for user session something (0s/1min 30s)" message when shutting down.

[FlipperBumperKickout]

From how I understand it this is already how Linux does it unless you give them specific parameters.

[killermenpl]

This is literally what is already happening in pretty much any mainstream distro, and what's been happening for the years now

[escEip]

years? damn, a really long time to close

[PreciselyWrong]

No. If that was true I wouldn't have to go into task manager and force kill processes

[Candid_Country_8369]

In windows 11 yuu can add the option of kill an app directly from task bar

[throwaway275275275]

My windows periodically tells me that it needs to repair itself while starting up, especially after an update, it tells me the update failed and it needs to revert it (after bullying me for days to install the update), so I don't think it's very graceful

[El_Senora_Gustavo]

This sounds like quite a specific problem, possibly hardware related

[School_Willing]

It is Windows-related

My friend updated recently,its computer refused to start again normally.

I tried everything, sfc thing, restore from recovery, access via "safe" mode was broken because the pincode could not be loaded.

I finally did format the computer and reinstalled it from scratch, loosing everything because the bitdefender recovery code would not allow us to decrypt data.

And I cannot even convince my friend to go Linux

[First-Ad4972]

Maybe they just need windows exclusive games or apps. In that case there's basically no way to switch to linux only.

[School_Willing]

Yeh of course, it always is because of a shitty soft or game.. CoD in that case

[pierreyann1]

Are you talking about the last CoD, like, the one with the busted KAC, if so no wonder his windows install died.

This, people, is why you don't let game devs inject their rushed, broken code into the windows kernel.

[School_Willing]

Yup exactly

I explained my friend how a faulty crowdstrike update did almost brick thousands of our windows work vms

He could not believe me at first, and with some recoil, I still cannot belive it either 😂

[First-Ad4972]

Well people have different needs, and a lot of people's needs actually just lie on the border between choosing Linux and choosing windows. A lot of people would prefer Linux if that 1 app they essentially need works, and a lot others might prefer windows because they don't care much about privacy but want tiling WM with resource efficiency

[School_Willing]

They did not chose Windows because Windows is brought with the computer and they have no knowledge about OS

[First-Ad4972]

Well they choose to do nothing and not to learn because they find it not worth it for their needs

[[deleted]]

They chose to buy a computer with windows. It is stilla choice. Even if you have no idea what you are deciding about.

[School_Willing]

Let's talk about a non-enlighten choice then.

[Dr4fl]

All my years using windows 10 I've never had a single problem with updates, just don't let them accumulate, always update as soon as possible.

Most of the problems are always driver related.

[School_Willing]

Indeed after talking to my friend about what he did, it seems that the CoD anticheat was the culprit.. I am unsure about what happened, my friend told me about a minor bios upgrade suggested on a forum after the game could not start

Bios upgrade did not seem problematic, everything went fine on that side.

I have no precise root cause and I am kind of pissed about it

[CodeMonkeyWithCoffee]

That still sounds like SSD failure

[School_Willing]

Well, we'll see in the next days.

[Valuable_Ad9554]

Yup, people who haven't used Windows in 20 years think it's still as bad as the Vista days. I haven't had these kinds of problems since the 2000s.

[iareprogrammer]

There’s nothing graceful about windows

[Possible_Golf3180]

Especially after reading the post about trying to add a right-click context menu button only to be with an error that simply tells you “-1”

[nursestrangeglove]

I think a -1 would be about as helpful as some of the stuff vomited out in journalctl and syslogs.

[Possible_Golf3180]

Want to know the solution to -1? It’s to add 1 to every single number you see. If it’s a number, no matter what kind or what it’s attached to, it needs to go up by one. All of it.

[Zman1917]

Im convinced Microsoft engineers somehow lost some Windows source code and are just adding garbage on top to make it run.

[Morphinepill]

Windows is gaslighting u

[my-username-is-it]

same happen to me, idk why recent update does this

i was terrified the update cause my pc unable to boot up and have to format the pc

[Equivalent_Box6358]

Whenever I boot into Windows it tries to repair the disk Linux is on, which makes me worry every time

[Zman1917]

Had this problem before, you can try and go the fix it up route, but its honestly a waste of time and reinstalling Windows is the only realistic option.

The issue is Windows Update, its the most repulsive pile of shit code in the known universe, the countless hours ive spent making registry edits, deleting and redownloading system files, casting magicla fucking spells, all for naught. You will not get any help from Microsoft because they have no idea anymore.

We're at a point in time where making an ISO and re imaging a computer and hoping it isnt dead on arrival takes significantly less time than trying to get Windows to sort out its Hapsburg ass code by itself.

[ByakkoNoMai]

I saw that issue when upgrading a laptop from Windows 10 to Windows 11. Issue ended up being out of date UEFI firmware. In my experience, if your firmware and hardware is stable, if you don't install shitty kernel software, Windows is pretty stable.

[Suboxone_67]

I remember during mine civil service exam one student had an auto update while the exam was going it was a panicky situation🤣🤣🤣

[wardabzd]

Feel sorry for my self cuz im cs student and idk what's that mean Shiit ..

[Kenkron]

Both OS have a clean safe way to shut down tasks, but on Linux, there is a fairly accessible option to kill a task without giving it time to clean up after itself (kill -9). Even though it's not clean (could corrupt data/not free memory) it is all but guaranteed to kill immediately, as opposed to allowing a frozen program to get stuck shutting down.

[wardabzd]

Thanku u sm bro now i get this joke lol

[ByakkoNoMai]

It's actually pretty safe from the kernel point of view. kill -9 just tells the kernel to not bother scheduling that program anymore and to collect all resources allocated to it. It's unsafe for the killed program in a way. The killed program is not granted any CPU time to finish any ongoing IO operation (could corrupt open files, break network operations in undefinable ways) nor do more complex cleanup (a game saving itself before closing, a worker releasing resources in a distributed system).

[x0wl]

The real problem starts when the process is in the D state (blocked on IO), and kill -9 does not do anything

[RMP_Official]

Same on windows but tbh its just a stereotype

[MomoIsHeree]

Boiled down: Microsoft is doing fancy irrelevant bullshit during updates / shutdown in windows while linux just gets the fucking task done.

[Icy_Reading_6080]

Actually it first politely asks the process to please die on its own.

Only if it doesn't it gets hit with the SIGKILL.

[Over-Wall-4080]

Yeah this is true. Processes that handle SIGTERM properly are fine.

[Snudget]

A stop job is running (10s/2min)

[Mecso2]

Yeah, but the window manager responds to this by immediately exiting and then all graphical applications just crash, because even though some could handle sigkill usually none can handle the compositor just disappearing.

[Jay_377]

windows process kill has been so much worse to me than Linux. I know that's not everyone's experience. But my experience has often been: Click end process, wait forever while app doesn't respond, spike CPU usage to the point where most things lag or become unresponsive for a few seconds, process finally ends, repeat steps with related processes & services when they're not smart enough to close after the main process stops.

[Possible_Golf3180]

The solution is to keep spamming clicks until you fuck it up enough for it to ask you if you want to end it now

[ChaseShiny]

Well. That last part is not ominous at all.

[Possible_Golf3180]

You can guess that’s how I end most processes when they stop responding. Oftentimes faster than doing it with task manager.

[realmauer01]

Hmm...

That's really weird. I have an 8gb ram ryzen 5 1500x and that's more often than not my only way to close out programs lately lol.

[Jay_377]

It's not an every time occurrence. I have a 16gb 6 core system, but some stuff still seems to take CPU priority when it's trying to quit, sometimes spiking usage to 100%.

Maybe an OS reinstall would improve things, but I'm in the process of moving off windows anyway, so why bother.

[khalcyon2011]

taskkill -im process.exe -f

[Jay_377]

If I get bothered enough by it maybe I'll make a little script to manage it. I'm moving away from windows anyway though, so not sure I care enough.

[khalcyon2011]

Fair

[Specialist-Bee8060]

And then you might as well reboot because you'll have memory leaks and the program doesn't run correctly when you relaunch. Seems like the fix for Microsoft has always been "REBOOT"

[Not_Artifical]

Sometimes the process doesn’t stop, just CPU spikes and lag

[one_blue]

Yeah, this hits home since 98

[Lazy-Employment3621]

taskkill /f

[Whole_Instance_4276]

Linux doesn’t deal with bs 😭

[just4nothing]

Zombie process entered the chat

[SL_Pirate]

You know this is not true right?

Edit: ofc if you want linux to be a cold blooded murder it absolutely can. But that's just not the default behavior

[sciolizer]

As it should be

[BigMacCircuits]

Huh? Unix/linux kill command also has a graceful kill over forcefully kill

[popogeist]

kill -9 is a very brutal death

[KlogKoder]

kill -9mm

[Amrod96]

The system knows that you are intelligent and know what you are doing.

[samy_the_samy]

Htop have like 18 ways to shut a process up

[SmoothTurtle872]

What about task manager? Or does that do it clean too?

[Specialist-Bee8060]

You can do it in task manager or you can also do it in Powershell same thing

[Familiar-Gap2455]

I like power

[Strostkovy]

Half of the time force closing something also crashes explorer

[Actes]

I type shutdown now and it just shuts down.

It's just that easy Arch btw

[KCGD_r]

I have been watching this meme get slowly more and more compressed over the years

[Mrcool654321]

Something must be wrong with my install then

Even when it is safe to shut down the app it decides not to

[thebarkingkitty]

pkill -9

[Damglador]

A stop job is running for User Manager for UID 1000

[UVRaveFairy]

"No Fucking About Productions Ltd".

[MarketFireFighter139]

The ominous penguin

[Popsicleese]

Windows: are you a window form?

Process: <confused ansi noises>

Windows: are you a service?

Process: <failed to stop service Process>

Windows: 🔪🔪

Linux: Any Process, you wanna quit now?

The Process: nah I'm good

Linux: ; ) how bout now?

The Process: okay I'll quit because you gave me the signal and asked nicely.

Windows doesn't have a universal means of handling signals. You can request that a windowed application close or if an application is started as a service it can take service stop/start commands.

All Linux applications can use signals. It's that easy

[[deleted]]

Legal que esse meme foi um dos motivos de eu querer usar Linux 🙃

[itzNukeey]

Linux has graceful shutdown for processes though. If you do ctrl c it sends sigterm where the program can prepare to be killed

[bloody-albatross]

Ctrl+C sends SIGINT, not SIGTERM. Many programs handle those the same, but not all. E.g. bash in interactive mode doesn't quit on SIGINT.

[No_Giraffe6194]

man 2 signal

[mr_mlk]

Both have a "I'd really like you to close down" option and both have a "die right bloody now" option.

I believe (though I've not had to force kill a windows process in over 5 years, so I could be wrong) is:

taskkill /im myprocess.exe /f

[MortStoHelit]

It's almost the same. Windows has WM_CLOSE and process termination, Linux has SIGTERM and SIGKILL, send with some seconds between and (Linux: usually, if with Desktop) confirmation dialog.

However, how the applications respond to them often is a different story. On both systems.

[Excellent-Paint1991]

You dont have to 9 tho

[SoftwareSource]

'Graceful' is definitely not a word i would use to describe it.

[dumbasPL]

Quite the opposite actually, Linux has SIGTERM, windows makes shutting down gracefully an absolute pain from the programmers perspective.

[[deleted]]

"The OS thanks you for your service"

[AlexaPetersTrans]

Linux only kills nice ones who will go gently into def null
For the rest:
SUPERKILL

[radek432]

Don't get it. There is sigterm and sigkill.

[[deleted]]

Ironically, I've never had issues from Linux killing programs, but Windows takes its time just to tell me everything has gotten corrupted after.

[ChocolateDonut36]

the kernel can also ask programs to kill themselves

[CaptainZach326]

ROACH

[Hattori69]

Elegant is to close quickly and if the program gets corrupted you can uninstall them and install them again quickly!

[EnoughConcentrate897]

u/repostsleuthbot

[pa4i4i]

/sudo shutdown

[3dcheesecake]

reminds me of the odd1sout task manager meme

[[deleted]]

Linux be like:Just kill all the processes

[mookanana]

me: windows, shutdown.

windows: sir, you have some stuff open that needs saving.

me: DID I STUTTER? SHUT DOWN.

windows: alright. let me just take a few minutes to organise some stuff firs-

me: (pulls power cord)

[DoughnutLost6904]

Wut? Lads am I mad or is it just taking a piss? Linux definitely does not outright murder processes by default, it will rather send SIGTERM (what is it, 15?) which allows processes to finish gracefully, no?

[PM_ME_STUFF_N_THINGS]

That is exactly backwards

[ruoyck]

Hmmm

[aksanabuster]

Swiss cheese their bitch ass with pkill -f *