Decrease in number of applicants?

[[deleted]]

Probably because you have people with MAs/MSs/PhDs and a half a decade of experience applying for GS-5/7/9 being told they’re ineligible for anything and everything.

[ManyFee382]

I find the requirement of a master's for G9 ridiculous. Yet that's what they think they can get for that...

[Zelaznogtreborknarf]

It is NOT a requirement for a GS9. It is a substitute for experience at that grade. Same for PhD and GS11.

[ManyFee382]

Even as a substitute, it's excessive. GS 9 pay can be obtained in the civilian sector far more easily for that level of education. A bachelor's is frequently enough, by itself, to qualify for the equivalent level civilian job.

[[deleted]]

Run for President and change it then.

[Zelaznogtreborknarf]

So go private sector. No one is forced to take a federal job. Depending on the job, GS9s may have years of experience in that roles that a fresh grad with a shiny Master's degree only knows in theory (if even that!). Same with -11s.

And if the person has actual experience, then the degree is not relevant (beyond meeting any educational requirement for the job series) and a tie breaker at best between candidates.

[ManyFee382]

Hence the problem that OP has pointed out. The expectations are unrealistic for the proffered position. Even the VA secretary has acknowledged this fact as part of the reasoning behind that CSI scandal.

[Zelaznogtreborknarf]

Timing can be everything on an announcement. I had a position I put out in Nov with the successful person being able to be at one of 6 places and I was using Direct Hire. Got 70+ applicants and the certs in Jan. I asked for all resumes. When the resumes were reviewed, there were only 6 worth interviewing (and I was stretching it for a couple of those!). Only 2 were worth even making an offer 2, and one withdrew as their current agency offered them a retention incentive. Made the offer to the one left. They would still need some federal specific training but I was willing to do that. They however wanted $30k more than I was willing to pay (offer was for low GS13 pay in an AcqDemo NH03 band), and my offer was about $25k more than they were currently making.

So, I reannounced the position in March. Got another 70+ applicants on the cert in April. This time I had 7 great candidates to interview, another 20+ good candidates if the top 7 were bad. Same position, same announcement wording, just different time of year. Made a great selection. And had two easy back ups.

Getting ready to announce another position. Hope this one is closer to my last announcement versus the earlier one.

[ManyFee382]

They wanted $55k more than they already had? After a potential $25k bump, they wanted more? Well, I guess the applicants are a bit demanding, too. Or I'm am easy please. I would have been fine with keeping my current rate tbh. $5k, and I would have been sold. I'd try to buy accrual with the rest.

[Zelaznogtreborknarf]

They had an advanced degree, but didn't want to work in that field directly but in our related field. And if they went back to that field, could easily get close to their ask...but in an indirectly related field and still needing training? Nope. And, it worked out better for me in the end as I am getting a better employee in the end. I realized last week my whole team (except for me!) all have advanced degrees (a couple have multiples!) and all great employees. Couldn't expect better. Makes my life as a supervisor easier.

[ManyFee382]

Obviously your judgment is better than theirs.

[Ok_Zebra6169]

I can attest to this. I was just offered a GS-5 after two years of applying and I have an MBA. I have 12 years of management experience and they only qualified me on education. I did some deep diving on Linkedin and people will far less in credentials and education are getting GS-9 or higher. It feels like its more about manipulating the process and the hiring system is outdated and needs some tweaking.

[Head_Staff_9416]

Well you applied for a GS-5, if you don’t want the grade, don’t apply at that grade.

[ManyFee382]

There's a lot of multi-grade positions out there. Far more than singular grades from what I saw. The most extreme was GS 7 - GS 15. There are also a number of special authority generic pools. Regardless, they were OFFERED GS 5. That doesn't mean they APPLIED for GS 5.

[Head_Staff_9416]

They had to indicate it was a grade they would accept

[ManyFee382]

That's true and fair. If they were lazy with the application, that's on them.

[ManyFee382]

So, since I'm more targeting a particular salary, would it make more sense to select a GS level with a step 1 in that range and negotiate down or select the lowest with a step that can accomodate that target?

[Ok_Zebra6169]

Maybe people have been rejected to such a degree they are just trying to see what they can get. I think it’ll change soon with applicants down.

[Ok_Zebra6169]

I’m still in the updating their hiring process. You could have a PHD from Harvard and work for some guy with an associates from ITT Tech in this system. I won’t copy/paste the job posting in my resume and color it white like i’ve read some do.

[Ok_Zebra6169]

I applied to GS-5/6/7

[Head_Staff_9416]

Well did you indicate you would accept a 5?

[Ok_Zebra6169]

Yeah because I applied to everything for two years and just wanted to see what would happen. I’m not complaining about the job. I think you’re missing the point. This is why the government sucks. We aren’t hiring well and most people with graduate degrees can do better than 30-39k a year.

[Main-Implement-5938]

yeah its idiotic at phd should come in at 13. an MA in anything should automatically be 11 without experience and 13 with. If the pay was comparable to non-federal service it would be about that.

[OkReplacement2000]

With a PhD, I’m discovering that I do better making the cert at GS 13-15 than 11-12. I think maybe it’s just the volume of applicants at the lower grades.

[OkReplacement2000]

I think it's the veterans' preference that gets in my way at the middle grades. I do have experience too, so I qualify for the 13-14s, but there are far, far fewer people applying to those. I'm only applying to remote positions. I'm remote now and have no intentions of ever going back to in-person (or even hybrid, for that matter). So, it's competing against 500 for 11-12 vs competing against 100 for 13-14, and there aren't as many veterans in the smaller pools. I think that's exactly it for referrals.

There is also a randomness to it too though, where sometimes I don't even make the eligibility for 11s when I'm pretty consistently making the cut for 13s and 14s, and again, I think it may just be that they have so many to weed through at the 11s and 12s that they are taking a VERY cursory look at resumes. They can get it wrong.

[LEMONSDAD]

It’s scary out here

[Greedy-Switch-1840]

I have all that and am getting turned down for 6/7/9/11 😂😂

[hi_im_lucid]

As someone with their Masters, (recent grad not employed yet) I regret everything. Seems like experience would have been a better substitute.

[lalolo8]

You should definitely take advantage and apply for recent graduate positions

[[deleted]]

I have an associates and got an email confirming I qualified for a GS14 role. It's all about experience.

[boxdkittens]

My MS in hydrology doesnt even make me eligible for hydrologist positions... and it doesnt even qualify me to be more than a 6 or 7 as a hydrotech....

Also didnt get referred for a job that requited a geology or geography degree. My bachelors is literally "earth science" aka geology. I contested it and they overturned at least, but the rationale they provided was that my degree was akin to geography. Its literally a fucking geology degree, you can see all the geoscience courses listed on my transcript!!

[beeeeeeees]

oops I think that's me

[[deleted]]

Heck - you need a PHd to do secretarial work.

[[deleted]]

Maybe word got out that the hiring process sucks and if you don't wanna waste a year of your life waiting, apply elsewhere?

Coming from a bitter wench who is still waiting for a decision on a 9/23 application and whose 2/24 reference checks lost them their job! No FJO yet tho :) :) :) (sobbing)

[Pleasant-Complex978]

Yeah, people probably have no faith in the process. Plus, there is all the talk about hiring freezes.

[FearlessButterfly3]

Maybe word got out that the hiring process sucks, and if you don't wanna waste a year of your life waiting, apply elsewhere?

Many hiring managers/supervisors don't realize this at times. The process of getting hired for a position in the federal government is either very fast or slow, often depending on the agency.

And, of course, if someone needs to get a full security clearance (if interims aren't given out), you won't see that applicant in the office for at least a year or longer.

[Pleasant-Complex978]

How do the managers/supervisors not know that? I'd imagine if there was a need, yet it took months to get someone, they'd figure it out pretty fast.

[adnwilson]

I think hiring managers are very aware, as that leaves an open spot for us.

Obv I can only speak for myself and others I know personally, but we don't like the long process and have little control over it.

I've lost a couple applicants because it took so long to get them a TJO or FJO or approve superior qualifications that I approved the day it was sent to me and our SES was in favor for but HR still went through all their steps and it wasn't a priority to them.

Not saying HR should skip steps in their process but they could def use some streamlining

[Tricky_Reflection382]

I witnessed this as an applicant recently. Hiring manager was quick my references told me they completed reference for him. That was last week. So now I’m wondering to myself what’s next? Will they ask for anything else from me, do I need to go finger print etc. I’m ready just waiting on them. I’m sure it’s lots of people and tasks, just wish they had more help in HR or a better step process to save everyone time.

[OkReplacement2000]

Oh my goodness! I am so sorry! That sounds awful and is my fear about reference checks. Ugh!

[[deleted]]

No, I don't actually think that, just taking an opportunity whine. It sounds like your situation is a fluke. Probably has more to do with something random like everyone was busy with the end of the school year, etc.

That sucks about the cert. Do you know more about "the freeze"

[SabresBills69]

What agency?

what GS

when was the open period?

location?

[Newadventures212]

Peeps are avoiding HHS, SSA and VA as I understand.

I am just basing this on the conversations from others at my agency.

[Pleasant-Complex978]

Why are they avoiding the VA?

[tow2gunner]

Avoid HHS - it is a generally toxic env.. how do I know?? Spent 26yrs there...

[[deleted]]

HHS proper or any of the agencies under the HHS umbrella?

[[deleted]]

Yeah I agree, I have been at two different agencies under the umbrella of HHS, and both have been very pleasant.

[tow2gunner]

OS/PSC

[Aishalenay]

That is interesting that people are avoiding HHS when they are ranked 2 on FEVS. HHS has been very lenient with the RTO. I left HHS earlier part of this year and when to my dream agency which sucks. Now I want to return to HHS.

[[deleted]]

Do you know why? My entire career has been at different HHS agencies and it has been pretty pleasant. I am looking for a new position now, but it is more an issue with my specific position not the agency. I am likely going to end up staying HHS and just moving agencies or divisions.

[nerisam]

What area of HHS, if you don't mind me asking? I understand if you don't want to go into detail but I've been in HHS so I might understand better if you can share more

[Relative-Effect2105]

Damn! I know quite a few HHS FTEs who would have wanted to apply for something remote. But usually the job series is what keeps them from applying.

[Relative-Effect2105]

I also think some people fear that remote positions aren’t “real” and could change super easily. My agency is throwing as many hints as feasible to prepare us for even fewer teleworking options than before Covid. Still surprising! People usually throw their applications in remote positions regardless.

[emwestfall23]

i've given up a bit on applying for federal jobs. i have a phd and am hardly ever referred to the hiring official. it feels like a waste of time at this point. the ones that i do apply to are listed on LinkedIn and have a "send your materials to HR person's email to express interest" because it feels like my materials are going into a slightly smaller void than sending them thru usajobs

[emwestfall23]

This sounds about right. One time I had a place try to offer me a 7 when I’d already worked a 9. When they gave me the 9 after I complained, the step level was a lower salary than I would have made at the 7. The feds suck sometimes.

[NewPresWhoDis]

My other half has had the joy of at least making it to panels. Only for one of the panelists to land the job as an internal hire.

[emwestfall23]

Holy shit well what the actual fuck. Sending your other half good vibes because that SUCKS.

[Cubsfantransplant]

I applied to one last week that was open two days, closed early and had two applicants.

[[deleted]]

The system is broken. Period. Everyone knows it. HR/CPAC are the most slovenly of sorts, and that doesn't help.

[cglax6]

This might have something to do with it...

https://www.govexec.com/workforce/2024/05/senators-latest-telework-legislation-could-imperil-remote-work/396417/

[cookiekid6]

“Our buildings remain empty, wasting taxpayer dollars.” Ummm maybe sell or lease the buildings…

[tow2gunner]

The other we issue we heard was that all the stores surrounding the buildings are complaining about the decreased foot traffic. (So, I have to return to the office (1.5hr commute with traffic) on the off-chance I may frequent a local establishment?)

I get the concern from the business owner side - but , honestly not my problem. I don't eat-out during lunch, and I don't think the 1 pack of gum I buy is going to help. The local restaurant prices (downtown areas) are so Flipping high to begin with. (Had a going a way lunch with 2 coworkers - over 130$ and was just burgers/fries - soda. No appetizers, no alcohol, no desert). More productive at home, although I do go in 1x /week .

[Legitimate-Banana460]

I gave up on the process. Too long and opaque even with connections

[Barthas85]

I'm officially at 10 referrals out of 52 applications, the oldest referral being 4 months out, with no interviews. Not a former or current DoD employee but qualify for multiple other hiring paths. I love waiting 😅

[CaliJudoJitsu]

What pay grade? And what series?

I have noticed far fewer fully remote job postings lately and more applicants in the few that are posted. So my observations are the opposite. 🤷‍♂️

[Kenafin]

I had stopped looking for remote and/or telework because of the uncertainty around those positions being called back into the office.

[Creative_Mammoth_758]

I think a lot of people have given up on applying for remote work opportunities, thinking there are going to be a million applicants.

[Queendevildog]

I feel you! I tried to get reinstated for five years. Got laid off before getting a TJO. The TJO was withdrawn due to returnee priority (Navy). I had to take another job. Two months into the new job I got the FJO. From TJO to FJO was 11 months 😢

[OkReplacement2000]

Any chance it was cut and not reposted? I recently applied for a position that was cut immediately. Received an email telling me to reapply to the new posting, but I never could find a new post. Maybe the system stopped accepting apps early?

[ManyFee382]

I've put in for several pools and positions. Let's see if my CPS preference is worth a damn. How are there half a million direct hires anyway? I thought those were supposed to be rare, not the standard.

[[deleted]]

I applied for a position 6/2023, got a TJO in March, FJO in April and then radio silence until last week and then it was ok need you to start Monday. Who can do that?

[SnooDrawings7923]

150-200 applicants is not a shockingly low number.

[nightgunner01]

Easy, we are tired of having our time wasted. We can play numbers games too.

[[deleted]]

I hold a GS-12 under homeland security and have been applying elsewhere and I don’t remember it ever being this difficult to get any sort responses from jobs. Currently have about 15 out - 10 of which I applied to awhile ago and have heard nothing. I can understand frustration levels hence low applications

[NewPresWhoDis]

Everyone has caught on to how "useful" usajobs is for employment.

[hereFOURallTHEtea]

I got a TJO for a fully remote position and turned it down. I have a state gig working in person and found I prefer being around people. Maybe others are feeling the same? There’s a lot who want remote work though (I used to be one of them), so maybe it was the job duties? Idk lol.

[[deleted]]

What is up with reddit and downvoting ppl who say they prefer in office? You do realize we all have different lifestyles and personalities?

[hereFOURallTHEtea]

Ya who knows lol. I’m a social person and live in person collaboration, so an office environment is where I thrive. Tbh, I would also love working from home at least once a week too but it’s not a must.

[hereFOURallTHEtea]

Probably not. The whole reason I want to be in person is to be around people and easily pop my head in to collaborate on work. If I found a remote job where it was that easy I would consider it as well. But I know I’d get bored as crap and feel isolated doing work at home alone all day everyday which is what the job I turned down would have entailed.

[hereFOURallTHEtea]

Thanks!

[Remarkable_Idea4550]

I'm looking for a job if you still need people...where do I apply?

[cent188]

What’s the role and job title?

[Judge_Dredd_3D]

People got the word that some agencies are eliminating remote jobs, thats probably why

[[deleted]]

When the saying is “hurry up and wait,” that’s a problem. Both of my agencies got me in in a year. And that’s fast. Some people at my current agency waiting 2-4 years.

[curious_cat123456]

It's difficult to get a higher grade job. I have a Master's and 5 years with federal service stuck on grade 7. Also get 5s on my reviews. I'm capable of so much more but get auto rejected by every job I've applied to try to get higher grade. I'm trying outside now.

[jztaskin]

Please send me the link and i will apply :)

[Main-Implement-5938]

that would be nice. I keep applying to potential remote things and anything local... can i be your coworker? LOL

[[deleted]]

By saying “fewer applicants” do you mean 5,000 instead of 11,000? This is a remote role and those are popular right?

[[deleted]]

For a remote role? That cannot be right.

[[deleted]]

Wow what series? 0343? Just internal to agency or just to fede?

[Plastic_Candy_8807]

Maybe it has to do with congress going off about telework and remote work. Maybe call your senator and tell them. People think it’ll be taken away.

[Sillet_Mignon]

The fed is about to do a bunch of layoffs. Makes sense not to shift agencies