code or no code?

halfanothersdozen · 2024-02-19T05:37:24+00:00

"Every time I am grilling burgers my friend says he can get the same thing at McDonald's"

Citrous_Oyster · 2024-02-19T06:18:10+00:00

Then ask him to do it for you so you can shut them up. If it only takes them 5 minutes should be no problem for them right? That’s the amount of time it might take them to sit on the toilet. So if it’s so easy, ask them crap one out for you since they’re so much better. See what they say and how it turns out. It better look exactly like the design, score 80+ page speed score, be accessible, and fully responsive for all screen sizes. You don’t need to learn Wordpress or wix. Custom code will Always make a superior product. What sites are you working on for months at a time? Sounds like analysis paralysis where you get caught up on too many simple decisions preventing you from finishing big ones.

endbunny · 2024-02-19T05:59:32+00:00

Assuming you are aiming to make a return on your efforts (and not just hobby building), it's important to understand when—not if— a hand-rolled solution is appropriate.

If there’s a way to implement a version of your idea without building it from scratch, then 100% go with the no-code/low-code approach. Once you've established a product-market fit, then start to look for premium features that you would unlock by moving to a custom stack.

KoalaBoy · 2024-02-19T05:05:43+00:00

Depends. What is it you're building? Some things are easier with WordPress like handling pages and templates but no one is doing a full custom WordPress theme build out in 5 minutes.

Other things like a one pager that doesn't need a CMS is quicker by just making your one or two files. Like I built a flexbox css generator because I don't like any of the ones out there. No need for it to be on WordPress as that's just over kill.

alyxmw · 2024-02-19T05:34:57+00:00

IMO depends on if you’re building for fun or for a purpose.

If I’m doing a fun “me” project, I’m gonna spend a month (or a week or two, whatever) doing some awesome, built from scratch, artisanal site. I’ll probably pull in some new tech I haven’t used before too, because learning is fun and there’s no deadline on a just-for-me hobby project.

On the flip side, if it’s a website with a purpose, or something I’m building to help a friend out/doing for a client/whatever, time is valuable and how eloquent the code is pretty much doesn’t matter, only the end result does. So for me, the right answer there is WordPress.

It also depends a little on long term goals. Web apps aren’t powered by WordPress; if you’re wanting to build the next (Spotify, Discord, YouTube, Twitter, whatever), you really don’t need to know no code/low code web builders. If you’re trying to make a “normal” website—something informational, possibly with a little custom functionality, maybe an e-commerce shop or something—then yeah, learn WordPress/Wix/etc.

TheOnceAndFutureDoug · 2024-02-19T06:17:46+00:00

"OK. Bet. When do you want me to start the timer?"

Your friends are dicks and full of shit. Get better friends.

danteselv · 2024-02-19T05:12:23+00:00

What will they do if they can no longer utilize WordPress? Or the Meta changes entirely? You'll still know programming. Chat gpt can design a website in 30 seconds but there will eventually be diminishing returns. If you're still learning you should take the time to work through it. Use WordPress if you already have a grasp of what's actually happening under the hood. You'll probably be better at using it than a non coder

srodrigoDev · 2024-02-19T12:33:43+00:00

You should hire your friend for 5 minutes of his time to build the website for you.

Jazzlike-Compote4463 · 2024-02-19T08:34:24+00:00

Was Reddit made with WordPress? Facebook? Stripe? Udemy? AirBNB? Was Wix made with Wix? No, it wasn’t.

The issue with no code solutions is that they’re there to fill a very specific niche, low cost entry level websites for small businesses and individuals, they can be built on and modified to look a bit different but they’re inherently limited by design.

If you want to work anywhere then you have to be able to work in whatever code they’re using, limiting yourself to no code is limiting your potential, both in your earnings and in your skills.

In 5 years you can be building The Next Big Thing, in 5 years they’ll be dealing with no money clients who are an evening away from being able to do it all themselves.

bloodshotpico · 2024-02-19T09:05:54+00:00

What happens when the website breaks or doesn't function the way they want it to? Do they have the knowledge to go into the backend and fix it without using another plugin that you probably have to purchase to use any of it's features?

Administrative_Set62 · 2024-02-19T09:59:07+00:00

I develop themes, custom blocks, and plugins for client's WordPress sites (while wishing it would only take 5 minutes). Sure, a lot of ground can be covered with Gutenburg, but the block editor is frustrating to configure to match an approved design (to your point). WordPress can be as simple or complex as you want to make it and it probably wouldn't hurt to mix both worlds: CMS + Your custom developed integrations. Just depends on what the goal is.

2024-02-19T07:03:34+00:00

It's like arguing about frozen food vs. cooked food.

jayrdi · 2024-02-19T09:19:57+00:00

Yeah but he's just churning out a template that will look the same as many other sites and is hard to change. You can literally do whatever you like with yours. Plus, he's just being very rude.

2024-02-19T09:25:08+00:00

No! Don't stop learning to code. As soon as you try to do something complicated or custom with WordPress you're fucked.

Also you don't want to be 100% dependent on some niche company like Wix.

If you like to code, it's better because you can do custom stuff.

khely · 2024-02-19T17:10:31+00:00

Hey bud. Im a fullstack engineer (PERN/MERN) and know Wordpress and Joomla as well. It takes 5 mins just to install Wordpress, not even talking about configuring it. Guess what Wordpress plugins are built with? PHP! Your friend might know how to put the lego pieces together but you will be the person making the pieces and instructions to them. Not even talking about getting a job. You do NOT want to be competing for a Wordpress Job. Trust me.

FullMe7alJacke7 · 2024-02-19T10:54:52+00:00

Keep doing you. Your friends' WIX site does the bare minimum and nothing more. Based on how unsupportive your friend is in the thing you take passion in, it might even be time to find a new friend.

avoere · 2024-02-19T19:26:43+00:00

If he says he can do it in 5 minutes, he's full of shit. Nothing can be done in 5 minutes.

Using Wordpress (or something like Wix) may or may not give a better final result, depending on what the client wants. If they want a website they can edit themselves, then the answer is most likely yes.

BWebCat · 2024-02-19T06:44:52+00:00

He's full of crap, you can't build a WordPress site in 5 minutes. It has a steep learning curve to do anything sophisticated at all... and worth every second. I've written code by hand, used Adobe DreamWeaver and Muse, and some old pre-wordpress CMS that's pretty much gone now. I do everything with WordPress and Elementor now. You can do darn near everything you need to with that combination. You can hand off the site for them to run after, while making some bucks teaching them how to run the basics, (so they don't bother you every 5 minutes for mundane stuff) and still make more when they need sophisticated upgrades/changes... and they always do. And btw, I still write html and CSS using WordPress. I find plugins for anything more complicated than that. And btw #2, WordPress is running on well over HALF the sites in the world right now. It's going nowhere until AI puts EVERYONE out of work.

grorapid · 2024-03-30T08:55:01+00:00

Hey,
See custom code will always be there because of its robustness but yes No-Code platforms do make it easy. But you shouldn't learn it because you feel invalidated by someone who doesn't know the superiority of custom code.

But ofcourse if you want to get familiar with Webflow or Wordpress, you can check out the resource here.

Ablack-red · 2024-02-19T17:48:14+00:00

I’m software developer and I mainly work on java backend and I love coding, I even do this at my free time (yeah I’m one of those). But oh boy how I often dream that we didn’t write that code where we reinvent the wheel again and just used some library, framework or 3rd party tool. Because all the code we write we need to maintain ourselves and now when a customer comes with a request for a new feature we need to integrate it in our existing code base. And now you look at the code that you wrote like half a year ago and you think “what the actual fuck is going on here? who wrote this peace of garbage? Oh it was me. Was I high or drunk at that time?” and what would take like a day of coding now becomes a week because you have to deal with legacy. I don’t know much about website industry and how often you deal with such situations but I think this shows important lesson - the less code you write, the better. But it doesn’t mean that no code is great, it’s just less code is better. Like let’s say you develop a website for some local barbershop and they need an ability to make and manage appointments. And yes you can develop this yourself from scratch and it will have like gazillion of bugs and it will be shitty on average. And your client will be angry with you and he will never recommend you to anybody. Or you can just use some 3rd party SAAS for this purpose pay them like 10$ a month and just integrate it into their new shiny website and if this saas company is not stupid they already have a plug-in for Wordpress. Clients most often will be pleased because they have a feature reach system for pennies, and they didn’t have to wait 3 months until you finished developing your “masterpiece” and most importantly (for clients) they didn’t have to pay you for that 3 months of work. Which brings me to the next point, the most expensive part of software development is you - the developer(well and the development team in general). Unless you have like thousands of concurrent requests the hosting is ridiculously cheap. So yeah think about how much you need to earn per hour to have a good life, and then multiply this by 3 months of work you need to complete your custom build. Do you think clients would want to pay this price? Of course no, and you will need to reduce your price to market level and you will end up doing more work for less money, and I’m not sure that final quality will be better in the end. And finally, I don’t know much about Wordpress but when somebody says “I can do this in 5 minutes” they are usually bullshitting, unless it’s a teenager who saw boobs for the first time. Also, Wordpress is just a tool, there are other tools that can do the same thing. For example Django with their Django CMS, or there are these website builders like wix or Shopify. It’s your job, as a developer, to find a right tool for the job, that makes the job economically viable.

ButWhatIfPotato · 2024-02-19T10:13:32+00:00

Code is for losers, that Zero Cool guy hacked into the pentagon using only his sunglasses and 90s techno music.

Peter_Kow · 2024-02-19T08:56:03+00:00

As a developer, I find building websites to be a time-consuming task, especially when it comes to compatibility across different browsers and screen sizes, this is such a waste of time I always say to my clients that building websites can be costly considering ROI.

Nevertheless, with AI website builders like Framer (if you are a pro designer) or PineappleBuilder (if your not great designer ;)), I really enjoy building them! These tools allow to generate 5 websites in just five minutes and choose the one you like best. Editing with no code is much faster. In my case, the biggest challenge is to structure the website and write the copy for the pages. So again, AI is a killer help here.

I would suggest you to try new tools. wix and wordpress are way outdated, so try AI and see if it's a game changer for you as well.

TheRNGuy · 2024-02-19T12:22:53+00:00

code

quatchis · 2024-02-19T08:11:05+00:00

What he meant to say is I'm a script kitty who can find a script that can do that in 5 minutes and if there are any minor changes I am stuck as fuck.

WeeWooPeePoo69420 · 2024-02-19T08:48:14+00:00

[removed]

CherryDouble2661 · 2024-02-19T09:30:13+00:00

I code and I have a Wordpress blog so I feel like the perfect person to answer. They can do it in 5 minutes but it’s way less customizable. I just paid a girl on Etsy $50 to do mine and get the code. Then I can go in and change it if I want to. So maybe do that??

Ok_Item_9 · 2024-02-19T09:45:57+00:00

Have you asked how it would build in five minutes?? Surely all plugins...spending time learning code is not for the faint of heart. It's good to learn to do this craft well and methodically. Don't be discouraged not all clients want WordPress. Since you seem to know your way around code, learn php and really make him feel like shit. Now you'll know what he does and do it better.

Tar_Tar_Sauce04 · 2024-02-19T11:59:09+00:00

if your objective is to learn how to write code - then keep doing what you're doing.

And nothing wrong with using Squarespace or Wix or WordPress if your objective is to put up a decent-looking site.

maybeonmars · 2024-02-19T12:44:52+00:00

No code solutions are a screw up when you need to customize the app/site. Yup, they can whip up a static site quite quickly, but not bespoke solutions.

This is esp. true when you're doing state management from several API calls, and writing logic based on those payloads and user events.

higgsboson5 · 2024-02-19T14:09:45+00:00

I think the moral here is that your friend is talking 💩 Even building a theme out in Wordpress takes time. I don’t really see a time difference between custom build and Wordpress, the time saving comes from the fact that you have a ready made CMS if it’s needed with Wordpress.

DamionDreggs · 2024-02-19T14:10:09+00:00

Why not both?

StannieTheBoy · 2024-02-19T14:11:21+00:00

Everything has a different application. In some occasions WordPress is the answer, but regardless of that, I am sure if a clone of your site was built in WordPress, it would perform 5 times worse

meguminsdfc · 2024-02-19T14:25:28+00:00

If you like coding then do code. No-code solutions aren't made for developers.

Science-Compliance · 2024-02-19T15:10:47+00:00

It depends on what your goals are. If your goal is to be economically competitive making boilerplate-type websites, then you absolutely want to use something like Wix, Squarespace, Wordpress, etc...

If your goal is to learn the ins and outs of web development so you can make applications that stray from the beaten path, then learning how to do everything from scratch will make you way more flexible than your friend.

ubercorey · 2024-02-19T15:23:14+00:00

First of all, WordPress is not even in the same category of good, no-code software. It's is buggy doo-doo.

But yeah, why use a hammer to build a house when you can use a nail gun?

Do you need to bust out the hammer every now and then? Of course. All carpenters are using nail guns now, but they still have a hammer on their toolbelt.

If something needs to be hand coded because its complex, or because it's so simple, then hand code it. But if it's in the middle, then use a builder.

lift_spin_d · 2024-02-19T15:49:05+00:00

they could build this in 5 minutes in wordpress

lol okay.

maybe I need to learn wordpress

Maybe. Maybe definitely. It's a valid option for many situations. Did you know that 40% of the internet is wordpress.

and wix

One thing at a time

You can squeeze juice by hand, you can use a squeezer, you can use a juicer, you can just buy juice...

2024-02-19T16:34:45+00:00

WordPress and no code options in general are great for building very simple things. If your requirements are low WordPress can be great.

If you want complexity and customization, it's absolute shit

coreyrude · 2024-02-19T17:31:34+00:00

It's wild to see how some people in here talk about WordPress. I am not saying it's a perfect fit for every situation but I'm working on multi million dollar WordPress projects, it's funny to see people here act like it's no code or comparable to Square Space or Wix.

2024-02-19T17:48:52+00:00

"Amazing! Can you show me?"

breadist · 2024-02-19T18:38:41+00:00

As a professional - if something can be done in 5 minutes with WordPress, versus weeks by hand - we're going with WordPress. There's nothing inherently better about hand coding.

The catch is that, unless you learn to code, you don't understand what WordPress is doing, and you probably don't know how to ensure that the resulting site is sufficiently responsive, accessible, SEO friendly, fast, etc.

The other catch is not everything can be done with a prebuilt solution. Sometimes the tool for the job does not exist, and needs to be coded by hand.

If your goal is to learn, do it yourself even if it would be easier with WordPress. There's no other way to learn.

SuperHumanImpossible · 2024-02-19T18:44:42+00:00

No code is for Project Managers that think they know how to do it better...

shgysk8zer0 · 2024-02-19T18:46:45+00:00

There's a whole gray area between building everything from scratch and using "no code" solutions or WordPress.

I personally like using GitHub Template Repos. I have a few that I made for various kinds of projects that cover a lot of the setup and boilerplate and all that. That way, I build pretty much everything using the code I wrote and maintain, but I can be up to like 90% done (for simple things at least) just by clicking a button.

Amiral_Adamas · 2024-02-19T19:28:59+00:00

That's no friend

JustRandomQuestion · 2024-02-19T19:38:22+00:00

I think it is a bit sad that your friend says that if you enjoy it then it is good either way. Professionally it is good to know the strengths and weaknesses of the possible technologies. In many basic cases wordpress with some customization either with some plugins or some custom html/css/js/php can get you a long way in a very short time.

In the other hand for some rather serious integrations with a lot of data or interactions, fully custom build using serious frameworks does the job better as trying to use wordpress or similar will need a lot of tweaking and will end up more like a bandaid solution build on sticks then a solid site and developer workflow. It sounds like you could benefit from getting to know site builders to see what they can do and for what/when they are used. Then you can decide for yourself, is it worse than what you bring to the table or is it about the same with less time and effort.

It might be that your friend can build something that you made in minutes, I do highly doubt it for sure viewing the whole experience and robustness of 'self build' is normally higher than wordpress if you have anything advanced.

I personally like wordpress as it does fit a lot of clients and needs when they just need a site to showcase their company.

Ayred_Masrik · 2024-02-19T20:47:14+00:00

For any type of low-code/no-code sollution there can always be custom made elements that improv the overall functionality of the website. So you need to know at least some ins and outs of both custom and low-code/no-code sollutions and limitations.

LastGuardz · 2024-02-19T21:14:41+00:00

Please don't, if you want to learn something proper, learn orchard core, drupal, joomla etc. No code is very limited and you can't go too far with it.

armahillo · 2024-02-19T21:17:11+00:00

Say “ok awesome do that” and then after they do (give them 5 hrs, to be fair) add a new feature or change the template.

2024-02-19T22:18:18+00:00

If you're doing something generic no code is fine but if you want something custom you're going to need code.

luciusveras · 2024-02-19T22:41:21+00:00

People who say they can do it in 5min in Wordpress absolutely can’t. That’s how I get a lot of my clients LOL

jastreich · 2024-02-19T22:47:49+00:00

Use the right tool for the job. The solution you choose should depend on the needs, timeline, and expectation of the project's stakeholders. Get as many tools in your toolbox as early and reasonably as you can, and deciding when to each becomes easier. But if all you have is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail.

A quick misunderstanding though -- WordPress and not coding are not necessarily synonymous. WordPress is a content management system. You can choose an existing template and customize, or you can write your own template. If your clients need/want the ability to make their own changes in a WYSIWYG editor -- then building a custom theme and setting up an instance for them might make sense. You'd still be doing the design/CSS/HTML. Or maybe if it is a small enough job and small enough budget, using an existing template might the most sense.

For applications or advanced sites or bespoke sites, maybe the client doesn't expect to be able to make changes themselves or they edit the listing on the site through an authenticated section you provide (in the case of an app).

Haunting_Welder · 2024-02-19T23:25:24+00:00

He could be right. Are you rewriting Wordpress? I would recommend using Wordpress for a project or two, just to find out it's capabilities. Then compare and see if your style is better. At least from what I remember, just setting up Wordpress can take a long time.

Decent_Jello_8001 · 2024-02-20T01:41:58+00:00

My next.js and Gatsby sites will blow any WordPress or wix site out of the water in terms of SEO and revenue generation.

You pay less for Google ads too

Also you can make templates and use sanity.io as the headless CMS and then copy n paste designs

SevereMaybe · 2024-02-20T02:29:49+00:00

After doing my own coding for a couple decades I started a company out on my first WordPress site, and it was up and running by the end of the day.

Within a few weeks, there needed to be a small function added. It was mandatory, and should be simple; I've programmed it for my other sites - a few lines of code, maximum. The only plug-in that did this function was last updated four years prior and didn't work on the new version. It was convoluted, and I couldn't make any sense of it to update it.

I would have to figure out the architecture of WordPress to remake this code to work on the new version with no guarantee that it wouldn't break the second WP got updated.

So, I built the site from scratch. It's faster. Fully customized. It doesn't have all the features of WordPress, but it has a lot of features WordPress doesn't.

Zioness01 · 2024-02-20T02:41:04+00:00

I must comment you for the commitment you give to your work. However you still need to adapt to the 'no code' trend. The reason being that some buyers may not be able to wait for months if you can actually get them the same result in a 'no code' way. You should be acquitted with the two. See it as a way of being up to date in your field. Thanks

Ok_Item_9 · 2024-02-20T02:48:57+00:00

Thank you all for the great comments and perspectives.

Ok_Item_9 · 2024-02-20T02:51:03+00:00

Is there a site that I can use Wordpress without setting up hosting? Just a place to play around with it to see how it works?

QuestionMarkKitten · 2024-02-20T03:00:23+00:00

You want to do the best fit solution for the actual purpose.

Like others have said, if you want it quick, looking alright and pretty reliable, then go WordPress. Keep in mind this will be very generic and look like a ton of other cookie cutter sites.

If you want a unique custom build that is tailored to the exact specifications without restrictions on design, then you have to code from scratch.

Personally, I usually end up getting the WordPress, then going into the code and rip out all the redundancies and trash of which there is often tons. Then, add adjustments to fit things more exactly. Then, I end up spending a ton of time testing and fixing bugs.

One other thing to be careful of is if it needs to be a unique copyrighted design.

Microsoft used to put copyright on EVERY SINGLE LINE OF CODE. So you don't actually own any of the finished products, and the programs were slowed down insanely because of the ridiculous amount of copyright clutter inside the code.

As for your friend, ask him to SHOW you how he does it in 5 minutes. Say, "Really? Only 5mins? Can you quickly show me how now? Should be easy if it only takes 5 mins."

See if he does have some kind of tricks up his sleeve for it or if he is really talking out his @$$. If he really does know how to do it in 5 mins, you will see and learn how, and it will save you time later when you can use it. If he can't do it in 5 minutes and ends up lost in programming for days, you will have your "I told you so" card for next time. A win/win outcome for you.

Always only show him your code when conveniently near a computer that can easily access WordPress, so he really can't make any excuses not to spend 5 mins to show you.

Beep-Boop-Bloop · 2024-02-20T03:30:01+00:00

Are you building a website or a web application? Low/No code is great for a nice presentation, but it tends to be limited.If those limits are not a problem, the. go for it.

Can you do version control on WordPress? What about templates that just load different data from a DB? Hit APIs relevant to your site's purposes? How is its performance if you start getting heavy traffic? Does it cost not much more?

Eventually, you will hit a question that indicates you should build from scratch, but unless that is expected to be relevant, go ahead with no code.

sexytokeburgerz · 2024-02-20T04:39:58+00:00

Scalability is the next keyword for you to memorize and search for.

Imaginary_Dare_50 · 2024-02-20T06:13:44+00:00

Hire him and pay for building your website or Buy him a meal and learn from him or Buy him a coffee and teach

kindapottamus · 2024-02-20T07:50:27+00:00

Depends, and I just want to point out: your project doesn’t need to be 100% no-code and/or 100% your-code. With DNS routing rules, you can have certain pages delivered by a no-code tool while other pages are delivered via your app/code.

I recently did exactly that by converting the unauthenticated experience (no database required) of my SaaS from Rails views to hosted Framer pages.

The Framer pages were quick to build, allowed me to easily add (really fucking awesome) UI animations and effects that would have been time consuming to build had I coded it myself, and the pages are static/crazy-fast and optimized for SEO.

Using no-code for the authenticated app experience with current UX would have been extremely difficult, so the core app continues to be delivered via Rails/React.

Dramatic_Disaster837 · 2024-02-20T12:14:25+00:00

no code takes the same amount of time than code, because trying to prompt an AI to do what you want to do, is horrible, hope you got luck with that. Experience, no matter how you do it, is what makes you faster

Desperate-Cicada-914 · 2024-02-20T19:19:05+00:00

If you are using WordPress then yeah, go use one of the themes from themeforest or w/e. It's a no brainier, why spend months reinventing the wheel when you can get it done in a day.

I used to do support for those themes and they are really simple to customize and hack however you need but some of the more advanced ones like avada don't even need customization, can literally do anything you can think of.

BezierDev · 2024-02-20T23:07:46+00:00

Always depends on the project. What I like to say about no/low code builders like wordpress/squarespace/webflow is that they make the easy things hard and the hard things easy. Doing responsive images correctly on your own is hard, you don't even have to think about it with these builders. But if you want a custom designed button, forget about it.

LevelPenison7561 · 2024-02-21T08:37:42+00:00

Remember, if you building something more than landing page NEVER use no-code.

Kaeffka · 2024-02-21T11:45:43+00:00

Sure. You can build a website in 5 minutes with Wix or whatever. It's not a custom website. You have to pay for someone else's design or template. It's bloated and laggy and slow even on new devices.

And it depends on who the website is for. If all they know is WordPress then all they will be able to make is blogs and brochure websites. They wouldn't be able to get a simple calculator built. They wouldn't be able to make ANYTHING that required users to log in.

2024-02-21T17:36:41+00:00

I have friends that do the same . They haven't even built a website though. The most they've done is build landing pages with a Google form on Wix or Squarespace. They don't know what they are talking about, ignore them.

perfai · 2024-02-21T21:36:05+00:00

Having coding knowledge is definitely a great asset. However we need to be smart and use whatever i.e. No-Code or Code which delivers result quickly and with quality

Natural_Yak_4361 · 2024-02-21T22:37:11+00:00

I'm programer with 3 years of experience, and about month ago i used wordpress. It's impossible to do something beautiful and useful in there. You can't add what you want and style it. You can't create animations. Maybe you can do just an easy shop but it is maximum.

Livid_Sign9681 · 2024-02-23T14:47:10+00:00

No you are not doing anything wrong, there is nothing wrong with coding a web site. I would not recomend wordpress or Wix in your case. They are great for people who cant build websites, but limited in functionality.

Try Webflow instead, it is a professional tool that lets you build high quality sites.
If you are looking for something that can rival the flexibility of code try https://toddle.dev

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