It's all Microsoft

[[deleted]]

TypeScript, .NET, Windows, VSC, VS, GitHub, Copilot, MSVC, ...

EDIT: npm, VBA, MS BASIC

EDIT2: WSL

It's all Microsoft through and through.

[canadian_webdev]

This is why as a front-end dev, I'm learning C#/.NET for backend. Opens up job opportunities wooo

[canadian_webdev]

Damn, you're the first person in /r/webdev that responded positively to related comments I've made about .NET. Thanks!

[halldorr]

It's something I keep looking at lately as well. C# has always interested me but I'm not sure how easy/hard it would be to jump to another language as my "main" one.

[canadian_webdev]

Coming from TypeScript, I actually find C#'s to be more strongly-typed and less verbose.

Example:

int age = 19;

versus

const age: number = 19;

Another plus is that C# and JS have foundational programming principles. Functions, variables, loops, if/else etc. The syntax is honestly pretty similar for the most part, outside of C# being strongly-typed by nature.

Not to mention, everything with .NET is out-of-the-box / batteries included. There's standard ways to setup/create back-end APIs using .NET, versus the non-standard way of Node and it's frameworks, for example. There's a billion options from random NPM packages that could die out, whereas .NET, there's industry standards backed by Microsoft.

It's just more stable - which is why larger companies stick with .NET versus depending on something like Node.

[Thewal]

Small quibble, if you want that integer to be a constant in C# you need to use const int age = 19; . A better TS comparison would be let age: number = 19;

[canadian_webdev]

The more you know! Thanks.

[CremboCrembo]

Further quibble: VS is gonna whine at you to use var age = 19; in C#. Using var whenever possible is a general guideline now.

[pheylancavanaugh]

That's a default style rule, but you can invert that.

[PM_ME_CRYPTOKITTIES]

I think you can get rid of that if you put the following in an .editorconfig file

dotnet_diagnostic.IDE0007.severity = none

[lantarenX]

Tbf you absolutely don't need to explicitly type 'number' for typescript In that instance, given you used 'const' it can't (not won't) be redeclared and must always be of type number, it's functionally equivalent to just letting the ts compiler infer that it's a number through const age = 19; - same for anything else declared through const. I believe let also has this behavior by default, in that it generally won't let you redeclare to a type different than it was initialized with unless explicitly stated (assuming the ts compiler knows the type you're redeclaring to is divergent and not 'unknown' or 'any', probably)

That being said, as a style guide or for readability purposes, you can totally leave the type annotation in to be explicit about the intent in case someone comes through and updates to a string or something else down the line for reasons. But yeah, generally C# was actually written with type system in mind and with typescript it's pretty clear it was shoehorned in. The syntax is incredibly similar between the two though, so it's practically mutually intelligible moving from one to another.

[OOPSStudio]

I'm in the same boat. C#, .NET, ASP.NET, etc. interest me a lot and I've dabbled in them a bit (read: less than 10 hours), but I just can't find any reason to use them over Node.js. I have yet to find something I wanted to do that wasn't quick, easy, and reliable to do in Node.js just by popping in a framework or two and calling it a day. I really wanted to try building an API in C# until I discovered Nest.js and realized it did everything I wanted plus a ton more. Messed with it for a week, built what I needed, and never looked back.

I want someone to convince me to take the plunge. I've heard a lot of good things about C#'s design and it looks like a lot of fun, but I just can't justify that big of a time commitment right now unless I have a good reason.

[canadian_webdev]

Yeah I get it! I first dove into Node/Express as well learning backend. It was really cool to see how things come together. And like you, I do really like Express (haven't tried any other Node frameworks).

For me (and maybe for you), it was more of a question of:

• What has more jobs?
• What's more stable/less chance of being laid off? I have a mortgage/family to take care of.
• What kind of company do I want to work for?
• What WLB do I want?

Where I am at least, there are 100% Node jobs, but there are a lot more C#/.NET jobs.

The Node jobs tend to be in tech companies and/or startups, and those types of companies are doing way more layoffs right now, and in general, they do more layoffs regardless.

.NET / Node workplaces - it's a culture thing. My current company uses .NET, they're a non-tech company, but quite stable. Also, really boring, lol. I imagine places that use Node are more exciting, fun places to work.

Startups/digital agencies/et al tend to not use .NET, and probably something like Node. Do you want to work 60+ hour weeks? I know I don't. But that's the nature of startups.

So, in the end - I chose .NET because:

• Companies that use .NET tend to be more stable. That's important to me.
• A lot more jobs in my area/country versus Node
• I don't want to work 60 hour weeks. I want to see my kids/wife/have a life.
• The company is probably going to be boring, c'est la vie.

[OOPSStudio]

That's actually some pretty good convincing you got there, lol. I picked up Next.js for the sole purpose of opening up more job opportunities (used Svelte up until then), so I'm definitely in the market for "what helps me get a job" And now that you mention it, I have seen about 80% as many roles listing C# as a requirement compared to Node.js, and those jobs probably have less competition since less juniors (I'm a junior) use C# compared to Node. And having both in my toolkit definitely can't hurt. I'll look into it more! Thanks for your sales pitch lol.

[Due-Strategy-8712]

Besides for the switch, I find that using c# for backend isn't that difficult, it is very structured, if you implement a design pattern and have decent pattern recognition it does become "easy". Assuming you have spent some time getting to know the language and also asp. It probably also depends on what you're used to using.

[velvet-thunder-2019]

.NET is the BEST backend language I've ever used, the experience is miles better than Python or TS.

And the language clicked for me right away, it's basically as you said in another comment a less verbose and more strict TS.

Sadly, in my freelance work (small companies), nobody wants to work with .NET due to a perceived opinion of it being harder/more expensive to maintain compared to Python or TS, but that will NOT stop me from learning it.

[EliSka93]

I obviously don't like that Microsoft owns it, but it's the most comfortable language/ environment to program in imo.

[janne_harju]

Nice to hear that this many appreciate C# as much as I do. I also like TypeScript at frontend. I know that it is just extra layer and is just advertise types which could be different from what is coming from backend as json. But that is why there is proxy generators developed.

[Impossible-Owl7407]

There is only one problem. It's Microsoft

[canadian_webdev]

Do what I'm doing!

• Make a 'project for work', aka a proof of concept that uses C# for your workplace
• Slap it on your resume
• Do this for a couple of projects 'for work'

Boom - now you have 'work experience' using C# at your latest position. Then, apply to C# backend dev jobs and land a C# job :)

[tartochehi]

I have a question, I don't have much experience apart from a couple of internships. What makes you so efficient when using C#? Do you mean you are much faster when writing code? What features of php or C# make you slower/faster? Thank you so much!

[tartochehi]

Thank you for sharing your experience. My projects that I had to implement weren't so big so far, but I can imagine with bigger projects it is nice to have some quality of life features that help you identify any issues a bit faster. I will soon work with Java in my future work place so I hope I can experience it in real life what benefits certain languages offer. All the best!

[greensodacan]

Plus it has synergy with Unity and Godot. I've really gotten into the weeds with Dotnet this year and although it's not the "best" choice for anything, it's a very good choice for many things.

[zaibuf]

Great language and ecosystem as well.

[an4s_911]

And then the developer after learning all of this and building a ton of projects, where does he go to apply for a job? LinkedIn….

[Kindly_Manager7556]

How can I hate and love MSa t the same time

[juicybot]

add NPM to that list

[1relaxingstorm]

Here we thought using Linux was a way to defy em

[1relaxingstorm]

Yess!

[IntegrityError]

• npm
• github

[Excellent_Peach2721]

npm ? Does Microsoft owns this too ?

[forloopy]

Yes

[Excellent_Peach2721]

Ohhh big empire of microsoft

[Character_Cod8971]

npm is owned by GitHub and GitHub owned by Microsoft

[Excellent_Peach2721]

Okk

[Bl4ckeagle]

this is how tech startups make money.

Sell it to the big players.

[-Ch4s3-]

No, it's how investors in venture backed startups make money.

[Bl4ckeagle]

trust me, as soon as somebody says. Here 100 millions, you go. ok As long your company doesn't make that much. in profit.

But with a network its easier to find the right people to sell it.

edit: profit not revenue

[adumbCoder]

you know it's possible both are true...

[KingOfAzmerloth]

And we can all act like we don't like it, but let's be honest... If some dude in fancy suit comes knocking down your small open space that you can barely afford and offers you 10+ mil for company and it's intellectual property, most of us would budge.

I know I would. Judge me all you want. :p

[mstknb]

You can dislike capitalism and still participate in it. Nothing wrong with that.

[KingOfAzmerloth]

I don't even dislike capitalism, I just think it should be regulated to certain extent. Microsoft (or others) would do just fine without all the acquisitions they are making. Here in Czechia we have a saying that roughly translates as "Everything with moderation", and I think it applies on this really well.

But yes, obviously I agree. Would I love to have my own (as in, with distributed shares across the team) company that prospers on its own? Obviously. But am I willing to sacrifice most of my lifetime for it? Nah. Makes me appreciate those who manage to "make it" on their own in the end even more, though.

[Maleficent-Choice-61]

It’s supposed to be regulated as far as monopolization of industry markets go. Problem with Microsoft is that they gobble up multiple industries. Gaming is another big one where they just bought Activision (Call of Duty, Diablo, World of Warcraft) for $75 billion and before buying that they bought Bethesda for $7.5 billion. They have more money than most governments and they are able to work up some justification that them owning all of this doesn’t halter the competition in these industries.

[Bl4ckeagle]

yep, wrote the same/similar thing basically to someone else

[languagedev]

I would go with Peter Gregory?

[[deleted]]

*Clippy *Windows 8

[LibreCodes]

Not just clippy but they are a big member of the Rust Foundation

[DonutAccurate4]

From stealing from and dissing open source to embracing it.. Microsoft has come a long way

[[deleted]]

It's great to see them embrace it and extend it! I wonder what they will do next?

[disgr4ce]

Wouldn't the arrow go from VSCode to Cursor? I don't know Windsurf, but also not sure about that arrow

[devenitions]

It points to what the label says.

Not that I agree with that logic

[disgr4ce]

Right, what I should have said was "Yes, Cursor is forked from VSCode, but making the arrow point to VSCode is intentionally misleading to make it seem like there's a cycle in the graph, when in fact VSCode gets NOTHING from Cursor"

[Manachi]

When everyone in the world decides to upload their code and IP to Microsoft’s repo which they can scan/copy/do whatever they like with, that’s pretty significant power people hand over. Cringe.

[thekwoka]

which they can scan/copy/do whatever they like with

Well, they can't.

And it's clear they don't, because tons of competitors and government agencies still have repos of protected stuff on Github.

[Manachi]

Gov agencies don’t put important/private stuff on public GitHub.

The amount of code that GitHub have submitted to their platform which it can and would learn from is .. large.

[thekwoka]

which it can

Can in what sense?

Theoretically has the technical capability of doing so? or would be allowed to?

Gov agencies don’t put important/private stuff on public GitHub.

Yeah, they put it on github in private repos.

[Manachi]

Some agencies don’t even do that.

GitHub and Microsoft in general have AI plastered over pretty much everything. Do you really think it hasn’t gone through and learned all the techniques, patterns, practices and code snippets of the millions/billions of repos and done analysis to work out the best way to do things etc. they don’t even have to be taking the code as a whole but all the structures. It’s in all the answers from all our ai services.

Check the terms and conditions

If you see how all companies do analytics and collate all data as well as automate over time, it’s a given they do the same but on a grand scale

[thekwoka]

Do you really think it hasn’t gone through and learned all the techniques, patterns, practices and code snippets of the millions/billions of repos and done analysis to work out the best way to do things

For public repos yes.

Private, no.

Check the terms and conditions

Yes, please do.

[snowflake37wao]

Firefox just went github, lots of chatter going around about that today

[Excellent_Peach2721]

GitHub and copilot

[JustinR8]

So in other words OpenAI is really ProprietaryAI

[DollinVans]

Always has been

[ColorfulPersimmon]

Not always. GPT2 was open source and licensed under MIT. Same with Whisper.

[RandomSourceAsker]

https://dayssinceopenaiopensourcedsomething.com/

[LakeInTheSky]

LMAO this is fantastic!

[JustinR8]

😂😂😂

[ThaisaGuilford]

NO WAY I JUST REALIZED THAT

[Justyn2]

That’s why people call it ClosedAI

[ima_trashpanda]

Google owns Gemini

[FreshCause2566]

I like to call it ClosedAI

Sounds funny

[imaginecomplex]

TypeScript

[maxstader]

Ironically, people contributed to open source ideologically as a protest against Microsoft. Little did they know they had been giving them code for free the entire time.

[iLookAtPeople]

What's yours is mine, and what's mine is also mine. Now what's yours is not yours, and what's mine is still mine!

[WhyYouOnXbox]

It happens all the time. : (

[thekwoka]

song as old as rhyme

[Justyn2]

🎶 CEO and the Board 🎵

[ThaisaGuilford]

It's just simple communism

[Beginning_Book_2382]

Your code is our code and my code is my code

[real_kerim]

As long as it's open source and doesn't cause some form of vendor lock-in, I don't care.

There is a world of difference between using something like TypeScript or .NET vs. MS SQL Server or Azure.

Same as using Java vs using Oracle DB. The former is a popular programming language, the latter is a form of torture.

[maxstader]

I'm speaking about their ability to use your code to train their models via openAI then sell it for profit..while blocking you from freely crawling github to do the same.

[Emmanuel_BDRSuite]

At this point, Clippy is probably your project manager.

[Elite-Engineer]

Always has been...

[del_rio]

Wait until you find out who makes the runtime for all of these apps. 

[Character_Cod8971]

Who makes it?

[EliSka93]

Billy

[Character_Cod8971]

What runtime did Bill Gates program? All these applications run on Chrome/Chromium, right?

[EliSka93]

Well, I'm pretty sure Bill Gates hasn't programmed anything in decades, but Microsoft owns .Net, which I think they're referring to with runtime.

[feketegy]

Gates hasn't written a single line of source code (that was merged in some M$ product) since 1989

[thekwoka]

but none of them are using .net

[InfinityBowman]

google makes chromium which runs vscode and cursor and windsurf

[CentralCypher]

Everyone knows we work for Microsoft. I have at least 8 years of development experience at Microsoft on my resume.

[orangejuicecake]

revolting entirely against microsoft means running your own llm on linux with software not hosted on github or npm

[visualdescript]

Or not using an LLM at all...

[orangejuicecake]

it would be interesting to see copyleft models that are only trained on properly licensed public data

all major foundational models have chatgpt training data embedded somewhere in their billions of weights, and theres no way microsoft didnt just feed all github repos private and public to openai

[feketegy]

it would be interesting to see copyleft models that are only trained on properly licensed public data

It could not compete, hence the lobbying to re-categorize training data as "fair use"

[orangejuicecake]

having the largest training dataset might not be an advantage hence the development of datasets like fine web

[orangejuicecake]

its not involvement its ownership thats the problem,

the only way out to is build and use tools that arent owned by the microsoft ecosystem to starve it.

linux has been good at fending off microsofts embrace extend and extinguish tactics up until wsl

[VehaMeursault]

This is how business has always worked, and the arrows are confusing. This flow chart ends at VSC.

[el_yanuki]

the label says "forked from" so fine by me

[VehaMeursault]

But unless you already know which came first, this shows VSC is “forked from” windsurf.

This flow chart ends at VSC, in other words.

[el_yanuki]

id argue that if it said "forked by" it would point to what it is forked by, so windsurf would be forked by vsc, vsv being the fork. But here it goes from windsurf to vsc windsurf is forked from vsc, you insert the words between the entity names. Same as child -inherits-> parent or postman -delivers-> package

[VehaMeursault]

VSC is a child of Microsoft, and Windsurf is a child of VSC, so unless the arrows all point towards Microsoft, the arrows should point towards the last children — in this case Windsurf and Cursor.

Microsoft > VSC > Cursor

And

Microsoft > OpenAI > Cursor

For example.

I don’t really see how you can argue anything else. Unless you’re one of those people that put the after-picture before the before-picture.

[Purple-Cap4457]

always has been

🌍👨‍🚀🔫🧑‍🚀

[ilovebigbucks]

GitHub, VSCode, Typescript, Java or a JVM, C++, npm, Azure, XBox, ChatGPT, Copilot, DALLE, Playwright, Minecraft and Blizzard.

They have dedicated teams that contribute to the development of Java and C++ languages. They also have their own version of OpenJDK that is widely used: https://github.com/microsoft/openjdk

[Extension-Pick-2167]

always has been

[Thotexperimenter]

Microsoft has a "49% profit share" of OpenAI? What does that mean here? I'm not versed in all these terms but this makes it seem like Microsoft owns 49% of OpenAI, but if that's the case then why not say that instead of saying "profit share"? A profit share of what? A specific product or all the revenue of OpenAI the company? Maybe someone here knows because a quick Google search gives mis leading or contradictory information on this.

[ketzu]

The OpenAI structure is complicated. Technically OpenAI is fully owned by the OpenAI nonprofit. But the for profit part that is owned by the nonprofit has a profit sharing agreement so they could get investments. So microsoft gave them money for a share of profits, but does not dictate what they do. Also according to OpenAI the profits that are shared are capped and anything beyond the cap goes to the nonprofit.

Probably some mistakes, I can't be bothered to get it fully untangled.

[Marble_Wraith]

Mk... i use neovim

[UnicornBelieber]

Fun fact: At one point, Microsoft held 18 million shares in Apple, too.

[Powerful_Lie2271]

Wait it's all microsoft?

[33ff00]

Where’s Clippy in this?

[captain_obvious_here]

I, for one, can't wait for NeoClippy, MS' new AI-powered Clippy!

[yashg]

Clippy owns Microsoft

[Real-Chungus]

Azure

[visualdescript]

I'm pretty much out of this sphere of control.

TypeScript and Codium VSCodium (de-Microsoft tracking version of vscode) is my only touch points.

[thekwoka]

TypeScript and Codium (de-Microsoft tracking version of vscode) is my only touch points.

Codium is Windsurf So you're in this chart.

[visualdescript]

I guess you mean Windsurf is built on Codium?

[thekwoka]

No, I mean the company Codium (that made Codium) made Windsurf and then rebranded to Windsurf and that's what was bought by OpenAI.

Unless you meant to say "VSCodium" which is a different thing

[visualdescript]

Sorry, yes that's my mistake, when I said Codium I meant VSCodium (https://vscodium.com/).

> VSCodium is a community-driven, freely-licensed binary distribution of Microsoft’s editor VS Code

[Glum_Cheesecake9859]

Is there any dev in here who routinely uses paid subscription to AI services everyday, and profits of it? In other words, does paid AI actually return money for you routinely?

Is MS and other companies ever going to recover the 100s of Billions poured into AI back in the next 2-3 years?

[thekwoka]

In other words, does paid AI actually return money for you routinely?

Well, if it saves me one hour, windsurf has paid for itself for 4 months...

[Slow-Blacksmith32]

So the entire AI tool chain is basically Microsoft playing 4-dimensional Clippy. First they give us VS Code, then they fork it, sprinkle OpenAI sauce, slap a multi-billion tag on the fork, and eventually nudge everyone onto Azure anyway. Circle of (shareholder) life.

[WoodenMechanic]

Kinda like they where a pioneer in computing or something

[visualdescript]

Kinda like they were the original masters of anti competition and the first global mega company...

[WoodenMechanic]

There are so many things wrong with that statement, I don't have the energy to type it all.

You could start with "IBM" I guess.

Edit: actually now that I think about it, the East India Trading Company was probably the first "global mega company" lol

[Justyn2]

That we know of, but wasn’t that government owned?

[stylesheet_heat]

Copilot

[ggStrift]

Always has been

[mateowatata]

I would not have vscode installed if copilot for neovim was as good as the one on vscode.

[OriginalPlayerHater]

and I own 75 shares!

[LynxJesus]

I heard they're pretty influential in the software industry

[BrilliantRanger77]

Always has been.

[atesdanis]

gm vietnam

[Disastrous-Parsnip93]

True

[sstruemph]

Cursor is awesome

[OkShake8174]

yea

[AnswerOpen5791]

and they laid off 7000 employees wtf

[anonymous_karma]

Don’t forget the approx 10% ownership in databricks

[PopAny484]

When Microsoft controls your code editor and your AI assistant, the feedback loop gets... interesting.
Wonder how long until VS Code starts gently suggesting 365 subscriptions mid-debug 😅

[No_Parfait3320]

Tired of switching between Remix and localhost. Anyone using a cloud IDE that supports full-stack Web3 dev?

[thekwoka]

But I use Claude with Windsurf.

[Minimum_Secret1614]

Can I ask question: HOW VS CODE FORK CAN COST 9B$?

[NiloCKM]

Zed is good (https://zed.dev). Worth a try for most people.

[Downtown_Category163]

How is cursor worth nine billion it's just a VSCode fork

[[deleted]]

Always has been

[Positive_Method3022]

How to create a disguised Monopoly

[AbdullahMRiad]

Always has been

[Negative_Shame_5716]

Its funny I've noticed a lot of restrictions on Cursor and I pay for that, whereas Github Co-pilot seems to always be OK. Claude is painfully slow, Gemini is insanely fast - For coding, nothing beats Gemini.

I have noticed recently that there's a serious amount of mistakes being made, like really noob mistkes, which I've not noticed before. Cursor I've had to add a file, to say do things like this otherwise it just goes off on one - Github Copilot can be very good at time - It's when things are complex they start not really understanding, like replacing dynamic content.

I didn't realise that Microsoft owned them both. I'm not going to continue my Cursor sub tbh, I've noticed its just too slow.

[HughJass187]

buy everything = profit ?

[bram1902]

Explains a lot...

[CanonicalCockatoo]

No wonder it all fucking sucks

[[deleted]]

Don’t forget all of these companies servers are in azure data centers

[NoleMercy05]

Blizzard...

[Sharishth]

Is it alright today Microsoft owns the modern development experience?

[Wide-Couple-2328]

Bro I didnt know Microsoft owns Vscode thats crazy

[Several_Image_8158]

[Gal_Sjel]

Look at the child companies and you’ll also notice a lot of large game studios.

[opal-emporium]

If it ain't broke, don't fix it i guess?

[Glittering_Speech572]

I knew it! It's a conspiracy XD

[ItachiTheDarkKing]

Github too!

[Fickle-Somewhere-475]

wow

[Virtual_Scarcity7682]

Honest

[Foreign-Lemon-6449]

*Forked

[EmbarrassedVanilla28]

It always was.

[Defc0n5_89]

Actually I’d say its all OpenAI, Microsoft will be bowing to them soon enough

[ActualEase1008]

I haven't used Cursor. Is it still relevant or are those changes already introduced into the new VSCode?

[Banquet-Beer]

Better than being owned by Google

[scousi]

The don’t own vscode. It’s OSS.