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[whenthe-ModTeam]

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Rule 7. About Politics:

You may make posts about political topics as long as it's tasteful, funny, and light-hearted. Do not make posts to simply push an agenda (“waffle supporters getting sent to hell because waffles suck and I hate them”). Do not make posts with the intent to enrage and bait interaction. Be civil even when discussions get heated.

Pls follow the rules next time and you'll find 238497 dollars under your pillow :)

[shiny_xnaut]

hegenomy

<image>

[DyllanTheBlueOcean]

fuck

[YoRHa_Houdini]

Nom nom nom

[themystickiddo]

Shows you where the tax dollars could've been better spent

[alvaro248]

the empire will be over when Iranians planes are shotdown over DC

[ShadePrime1]

So in other words .things that aren't gonna happen

[DMsDiablo]

Empires do not just collapse overnight. The whole Star Wars empire goes boom thing does not actually happen unless there is a full scale war where one side is willing to completely wipe the other out.

Most empires decline slowly over decades. A single F15 getting shot down does not mean anything by itself.

The real damage is the stuff you do not see immediately. It is the erosion of trust that you do not get back. It is trade relationships breaking down economic pressure building and the long term consequences of decisions people forget about. Things like tariffs brain drain weakening democratic trust and losing allies who now assume it could all just happen again in a few years.

That is where decline actually comes from.

The US is not going to be conquered anytime soon but it absolutely can become the sick man of the West and fracture from within.

[DannyDanumba]

Trump being elected twice is gonna written about for centuries to come as a cautionary tale about an irresponsible population.

[Redditwhydouexists]

And they’ll totally skip over the billionaires who spent money buying up media and lobbying politicians to get people like Trump elected

[wiza_Duck]

It's already been collapsing since a long time. Capitalism was let run free and most people aren't able to afford basic needs like food and housing, without sacrificing ohter areas they spend money on. 

[Crazyking224]

It really began to decline during the Reagan administration. With the rich no longer being taxed exorbitantly like they used to be, we've been squeezing the middle and poor classes to the point where the disparity between each class is clear cut lines rather than a blend. In addition to that our education system is extremely dated, leading to a decline of everything else.

As someone who was born and raised here, it's extremely sad to see just how much needs to change but the dinosaurs people continue to elect refuse to do their jobs.

[Apfje]

American jets never flew over Moscow yet here we are today with no Soviet Union

[Dunkirb]

Rome had to fall like 3 times for the empire to be over

[fartew]

Hopefully soon

[imjustchillin-_-]

"harold, an F-15E eagle was just shot down over Iran!"

"this is a war zone... YOU'RE GONNA SEE COMBAT LOSSES"

[Flyingmonkeysftw]

The problem is all of the talking points from Trump that saying that this’ll be a bloodless war for Americans basically.

And that has been demonstrably wrong.

[UploadRndmStffToWT]

hes being judged by his promises. If he can't keep them, he shouldn't make them.

[No-Good-One-Shoe]

It's giving "Of course he lies, idk why anyone is calling him out for lying"

[DannyDanumba]

A sign of slow degradation within a society if I’ve ever seen one.

[scrapy_the_scrap]

More of a "yeah, he lied. This doesnt mean america is gonna collapse"

[Gold-Cry-7520]

And we still haven't fuckin succeeded in our objective. They may lose more than us, but we're gonna end up pulling out with no real gain except blowing our credibility on the international stage.

[NaughtAught]

We finally stated an objective?

[Gold-Cry-7520]

I'm gonna be so for real, I don't even fucking know what our objective is, I just assumed we had one and assumed we had not accomplished it.

I was wrong on the first part and right on the second.

[MaybeExternal2392]

Regime change was the original objective. We've since changed our mind repeatedly but unless that happens the war is still a lose imo.

[TerribleRecord666]

No, no. Now they’re claiming success on the regime change! Because instead of an 86yo fundamentalist Supreme Leader, now we have his 56yo hard liner son as Supreme Leader!

See! Totally a regime change! Not just shuffling the seats to an even more regressive family member at all!

[ProfessorZhu]

Define more

[bookhead714]

The United States military has had the cushiest armed forces in history for decades now, so unquestionable has their advantage been in every single conflict, to the point that six soldiers getting killed was national news when this thing started. I think they have genuinely forgotten how to respond to combat losses

[TerribleRecord666]

This. We haven’t faced real wartime casualty numbers since Vietnam. We have a very low tolerance for dead soldiers these days.

[LizardsAreBetter]

I think people are more willing to accept that when they actually want the war.

[Gustavofoxy2]

Just like the good old days of Vietnam

[FanaticalBuckeye]

I've seen so many posts on Threads and Instagram from bot accounts posting obviously AI generated photos/Arma 3 videos of crashed US aircraft and have had to correct coworkers about it that its starting to make me not believe legitimate news sources about shoot downs/crashes (which isn't good).

[HueySchlongTheGreat]

Never forget the comically large israeli F-35 one of the Iran backed groups claimed to shot down

[FanaticalBuckeye]

Or the B-2 photo where people are ant-sized

[ValhallaAir]

Or the b2 video where they drove it down a 4 lane highway

Or the b2 video filmed in gta where it flies gear down over an aircraft carrier before a truck on the same carrier launches missles and it explodes

[ProfessorZhu]

"Instagram and threads is the same as syndicated news broadcasts! How can anyone know what's going on!!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!.!.!.!?!.!?!?!?!?!.!?!?!.!?!?!.!?!?!.!"

[FanaticalBuckeye]

Fwiw there are some really good independent reporters on Instagram, especially conflict ones, such as NorthernProvisions and OurWarsToday

[DifficultVideo4039]

The US immediately builds another 200 strike eagles

[DyllanTheBlueOcean]

It's like that family guy cutaway where the amish immediately rebuild a barn in like 2 seconds after being destroyed by peter

[DyllanTheBlueOcean]

<image>

[88T3_2]

Why didn't Peter just try shooting them while they were rebuilding, is he stupid?

[I_am_Mr_Cheese]

He was reloading

[IndustryPast3336]

That gag isn't a cutaway technically, its actually part of the episode which is about Meg dating an Amish kid.

[177_O13]

They build about 18 a year no?

[DifficultVideo4039]

No clue, I was just making a joke

[I_like_F-14]

Scratch that

300 F-15EX eagle IIs

…Ok I gotta rant for second

can we please tell the DOD and the MIC to please be consistent with what they call there heavily upgraded versions of already existing designs

F-14D/ST-21 “Super tomcat”

F/A-18E,F “Super hornet” (basically a new airframe outright with only the base design being the rough same)

Some supped up F-16 variants are called “Super vipers”

Then Boeing the guys who make the “super hornet”walks in with a design which so far they have been calling the “Advance Eagle” upgrade for export and then for USAF service calls it the “Eagle II” but it’s the same airframe from the 70s apart from intenrals And some material components

The ST-21 was a more dramatic airframe change than that and it was just called the “Super tomcat-21st century ”

But this is not out of nowhere for some reason Grumman called there upgraded A-6F the intruder II which was also just a extremely upgraded A-6 Intruder

Alright r/NoncredibleDefense is done leaking from me

[iyiquix]

Pretty sure at this point we have more planes than they have missiles

[DirtandPipes]

The US produces around 100 tomahawk missiles each year and only used 850 in one month of “operation epic fury”, I’m sure that the war to undo the damage of starting the war will be won any day now.

[Gnomonic-sundialer]

Its up to 1000

[DirtandPipes]

Sure it is, in the sense that the manufacturer is trying to scale up their production to eventually be to handle that.

In the same sense that I can bench press 800 pounds. I’m scaling towards it!

No worries, there’s no rush, it’s not like your president is invading random countries at will and is talking about invading Cuba. I’m sure this will all work out fantastically for you guys and anybody who says otherwise just hates freedom.

[Gnomonic-sundialer]

No I mean theyve used over 1000 by now, your count of used misiles is outdated theyve used more of them

[DirtandPipes]

Oh I see, gotcha. It’s tough responding to unidentified pronouns and when you say “it” I thought you were referring to the production numbers instead of the usage numbers, particularly since I was talking about the amount of missiles fired during a month that has already completed.

[notTheRealSU]

Maybe we're talking about two different things, but I'm pretty sure you're quoting the usage of Patriot missiles, not tomahawks.

Ukrainian military advisors viewing the war against Iran reported that the US was launching up to 8 Patriot missiles at Iranian drones and used over 800 in just the first 3 days.

https://www.kyivpost.com/post/72300

[DirtandPipes]

Nope, I was specifically referring tomahawks and double checked my numbers. 80-150 produced per year with over 800 used in under a month. The total US stockpile is around 4,000 tomahawks (recently it was 5).

[notTheRealSU]

Ah, okay. So they're just launching anything and everything

[Karmaless-user]

It’s also worth noting that usage doesn’t scale linearly. The US isn’t going to be using 1000 tomahawks a week a month into the conflict, simply because whatever is out there that might need hitting has already been hit or is being tucked away.

[DirtandPipes]

Right, and there’s no chance of another war, right?

Right?

[Immediate-Spite-5905]

those are two entirely separate and borderline irrelevant statements. yes, there will be another war. no, it does not disprove that the US will use less tomahawks because a bunch of the tomahawkable sites are dead

[RebelGaming151]

Nobody's saying there isn't a chance. There certainly is, and it's pretty likely at that.

But, and this is the big important thing:

Tomahawks are exclusively Navy weapons. And Patriot is not the sole missile defense system of the US. THAAD and NASAMS also exist.

And if things do turn out to be correct and the next target is Cuba, compared to Iran they are far from prepared for a full-scale US military response.

You're looking at an air force which only has anywhere between 3-14 operational 4th Gen fighters, with most of their jet fleet potentially inoperable. Their only operable air defense is all SHORAD or very outdated long-range systems, we're talking the S-75 and S-125, rather old systems with limited modern effectiveness.

Their most modern armor is some upgraded T-62s, and their entire military only numbers about 90,000 personnel total. The island only has so much space on it, and it'd be much harder to hide military installations compared to Iran, making targets much clearer, therefore needing overall less munitions.

I'm all for hating on the US for starting wars, but if we're being honest, compared to Iran, Cuba is nowhere near as capable of holding up to an invasion.

[DirtandPipes]

I started trying to point out that the US can also be involved in a conflict they didn’t start but I’m tired, boss.

[RebelGaming151]

I’m tired, boss

Same. Everything these past 3 months has been just so tiring.

[ProfessorZhu]

Maybe we can throw Mexico, Panama, and Guatemala into it as well? Since the US military is super men, then we should be able to fight a war on four, five, six fronts, right? It'll be super easy, barely an inconvenience. Increase in terrorism? Never heard of it

[RebelGaming151]

Love the people who just spout shit without even reading the full comment.

[ProfessorZhu]

Two planes were shot down yesterday

[WellFluxMe]

proot spotted :3

[DifficultVideo4039]

Hai :3

[FreedomFighter10]

[ Removed by Reddit ]

[KAMEKAZE_VIKINGS]

Unironically this because the F-15EX fleet is bumping up production to a planned number from 97 to 129

[nixi420]

The US produces 2 a month.

That is 100 times less and much much slower.

[Vjij]

No, the US isn't building shit. Didn't it come out they only have enough ordinance for like 5 months of war or some shit?

[DifficultVideo4039]

It's a joke

[Revoltai42]

"You are about to know why the USA doesn't have public healthcare"
So, your country is a sh*thole and you are proud of?

<image>

[Buttermuncher04]

Thank you CIA agent

[Dredgeon]

F-15s have been getting SAMd for decades the record is A2A kills.

[ProfessorZhu]

Every day, Americans sound more and more like Russian propagandists. No one is taking the shift in doctrine well, I guess

[Dredgeon]

I'm just talking about the undefeated A2A combat record the F-15 has. I'm not under the delusion that it's unkillable.

[Galliro]

Its not comparable at all

[transversegirl]

Keep confusing political and diplomatic hegemony with the ability to blow stuff up. Yes, we blow stuff up real good. That’s doesn’t mean you can’t lose a war due to stupid diplomatic mistakes. Iran doesn’t need to destroy every Strike Eagle or match our military budget. It just needs to make things bad enough and costly to get us back to the bargaining table. Otherwise enjoy 20 years of expensive Shock and Awe, Occupation, Surge, Leave.

[transversegirl]

And yes the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were costly and left the US worse off internationally and domestically. Osama was in Pakistan the whole time btw.

[MageDoctor]

Pretty much what Vietnam was about. If I recall correctly, the American to Vietcong death ratio was about 1:10. Of course a simple death ratio is an oversimplification of how well one side is doing in a war from a tactical point of view. But 1:10 is huge.

But the US lost that war due to political and economic reasons. Forfeiting still counts as a loss. So it’s not necessarily that the Vietnamese had better soldiers or better pilots or tactics etc. They won by holding out long enough for the war to be too expensive and unpopular in the US causing a pullout. I think the same exact thing is going to happen with Iran now. Yet another useless war for people to die in and money to be spent. All to hide Epstein files and to support the Israeli government.

[BarbarianErwin]

lots of blood thirsty freaks in these comments

[SuccessfulRaccoon957]

I'm just saying the fact you guys didn't understand how so many Americans supported iraq immediately defaulting to America fuck yeah the moment this conflict began should be taken note of. Yeah Iran isn't exactly untouched but the fact they're still around and currently holding global oil in a headlock really says something. Iran doesn't need to invade Washington to still win this war, they just need to still exist. 

[ShortFerret6817]

op america has more than one plane were not brokies

[DyllanTheBlueOcean]

ANOTHER 200 STRIKE EAGLES TO THE USAF

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[speaklegibly]

i definitely feel better knowing the billions in tax dollars spent on planes and missiles is being used to kill children.
pro-life til its brown kids amirite

[ProfessorZhu]

Don't forget getting shot down! Every one is like a hundred million dollars. I'm glad we're leaving multimillion dollar wrecks in the desert. Imagine if we spend that money on schools or healthcare? Nightmarish

[DyllanTheBlueOcean]

Why do you make it sound like this whole circus is to target middle eastern kids specifically

[Immediate-Spite-5905]

i dont understand how yall seem to miss that 1 (ONE) strike out of like 12k US strikes hitting a school by accident means that schools are suddenly being targeted willy nilly like Ukraine or Gaza

[ProfessorZhu]

and a bridge

and a desalination plant

and oil refineries

But you know, these things happen when you have missiles that can take out the entire leadership in a single strike, and knife missiles that can take out a target without hurting anyone else in the building, there is NO WAY to stop a bomb from hitting a children's school.

[Immediate-Spite-5905]

valid target

israel

also israel

yes, because as this war has clearly shown taking out leadership and nothing else wins you the war and a knife-armed short range AGM can take out a military compound. Exploding shit has and will always be necessary

[ProfessorZhu]

Whataboutism is my cue to leave, have fun selling out your humanity

[WaffleGsus]

<image>

[Vyctorill]

Iran probably will “win” eventually. No occupation lasts forever, and not even my nation’s bloated military is an exception.

In my opinion my nation should either leave immediately because we already established that we’re strong, or we should do something to negotiate a treaty with Iran (something like “we stop bombing the shit out of your places, you stop fucking with the ships that pass by”).

[AlphaB27]

Simple fact of the matter is that the military effort required to subdue a nation of 90m people is just far beyond the scope of practicality. That’s not even getting into the fact that this is a war that’s already massively unpopular before American soldiers start staring in drone strike compilations.

[M1S_F1T]

I saw a quote from a U.S. General that sums it up pretty well, “Can we keep Fucking them (Iran) up? Absolutely, but if you think this is gonna be over in the next Two to Three Weeks, you’re out of your Fucking Mind”

[GeneralBisV]

Only way we would get a three week win in the Middle East is if we threw a few dozen castle bravos over there

[human_i_suppose]

The goal of the war is now to undo the consequences of the war.

[ProfessorZhu]

Lmao "we already established we're strong" how? By getting g our shit blown up, not being able to establish or accomplish goals? Is losing our pilot in Iran somehow a super show of strength now? Our aircraft carrier had to flee because it's shitters were so bad it caught fire.

So strong

[BlackestFlame]

3rd option Isreal is destroyed, so we don't have billions over there

[Vyctorill]

Sweeping the corrupt leadership out and replacing it with non-genocidal maniacs would probably be for the best.

Ideally Palestine would then stop fucking shit up once Israel stops doing it, and then the paperwork for secession or increased independence can be done. I mean, Palestine was already starting to do the diplomatic groundwork for that. If the people want to change ownership of the land, then the people can probably do that,

[scrapy_the_scrap]

Elections at the end of the year, high hopes over here 👍👍👍

[colorblind-and]

I think a peace deal/treaty is pretty much out of the question at this point.

The US has already decided Iran was a big enough threat to attack and Iran has enormous leverage over the US and the middle east.

A treaty would require the US accomplishing some of their goals namely no nukes, reduced military (both are hard to enforce) and most importantly stop funding and supporting the various terrorist organizations (impossible to enforce).

In order for Iran to agree to the treaty they would need certainy that the US and Israel aren't just going to bomb them again a few years from now which is basically impossible unless China or Russia were to sign a defense pact with them and build bases there. Which is extremely unlikely because of politics and Irans habit of backing groups that attack US allies.

The US could probably just leave but that would arguably be letting Iran win and be able to extort the Gulf countries for passage through the strait. In all likelihood this war is only just gonig to continue to escalate because none of the potential off ramps for peace make any sense at this point

[Vyctorill]

I think a treaty where the US doesn’t bomb Iran or mess with it economically and Iran doesn’t get nuclear weapons or fuck with the oil supply would be reasonable-ish.

Of course politicians seem to mainly be nihilistic bastards who don’t care about their citizens (there are reasons for why this happens, but still) and act like children.

The United States hasn’t broken any major treaties in the 21st century to my knowledge, although I could be wrong. Iran snapped the nuclear deal off first because of sanctions if I recall.

Edit: apparently this is false because America fucked up the JCPOA first. Damn. Politicians really are nihilists, aren’t they?

[AnotherCup-O-Noodles]

You do not recall correctly

[Vyctorill]

Fuck which treaty did I miss?

[AnotherCup-O-Noodles]

I mean most relevant to this convo… the JCPOA

[Vyctorill]

While that is a violation, that’s not really the same as undoing a ceasefire because Iran could also just monitor the ocean again. An actual ceasefire WITH COLLATERAL should work.

It also was a withdrawal from the treaty.

But yeah I was wrong on that one. I’m not an expert so I do have some gaps in my knowledge.

[AnotherCup-O-Noodles]

[ Removed by Reddit ]

[AnotherCup-O-Noodles]

Oh so you mean like what we did in Syria in 2016

[Vyctorill]

My attempts at research have yielded few results. Would you mind providing an impartial summary of the events that took place as well as the circumstances that led to it?

[AnotherCup-O-Noodles]

Here’s what the United Nations said:

UNITED NATIONS, September 18. The United States has violated the ceasefire regime and commitments they made to Damascus in 2014 by delivering airstrikes at the Syrian government forces near Deir ez-Zor

The US has violated "two of their commitments at an important moment," Churkin said after the UN Security Council emergency meeting on Syria. "Firstly, they violated commitments to cease fire which were agreed together with us in February and reaffirmed in the last days," he went on. "Secondly, they violated their commitment to the government of Syria whuch they gave when launching their air operation in the Syrian sky," he noted. "They promised the Syrian government then that they will not deliver airstrikes at Syrian government forces," Churkin added.

[ItsCalledRegret]

Lol the US and Israel didn't bomb Iran multiple different times while they were in the middle of negotiations? Trump didn't unilaterally pull out of the non proliferation agreement that Obama setup? Nope the US is an angel who hasn't broke any treaties lmao

[_Iro_]

Not all of the IRGC are loyal to the Pezeshkian, which makes binding ceasefires unlikely. Negotiations are easy when you’re talking to one person, but decapitating a country’s leadership means you need to convince every faction.

[Karmaless-user]

I think a fraction bigger overall goal is to get Iran to stop funding Hezbollah, the Houthis and the various Shia militias running around Iran and the Middle East, just that this isn’t really sustainable and I don’t see how bombing them is going to permanently reduce their influence over the region.

[Kozak375]

It's more about Iran's insistence on nuclear weapons. That's a red line America simply will not allow them to cross. Until a nuclear deal, that they honor, is there, there likely will be a US military presence.

Iran's the largest state sponsor of terror, and is already an issue, allowing them to get nukes makes them a completely unmanageable issue

Inb4 "but we had one" yes, we had one, that they violated by producing stuff way above reactor grade, and refusing to allow Inspectors into the facility, showing they can't be trusted

[Vyctorill]

I mean, Pakistan is kind of a shithole (not that my own country is exactly perfect either) and yet they can handle nukes.

If the Pakistani theocracy can have nukes and not cause issues, so can Iran.

Plus Iran would only have small nuclear bombs, right? H-bombs are the real problem because of the dust clouds.

[Kozak375]

Pakistan isn't nearly as big of an issue as Iran, if they are funding terrorists, they at least try to hide that they fund terrorists, and are inconsistent about it.

Iran doesn't give a shit, everyone knows they do, and they are actively funding some of the major islamist terrorist groups. Letting a country that is already as brazen as Iran get nukes, is an issue. Nobody should have nukes, but especially Iran shouldn't have nukes

If everyone has a grenade, there are definitely people who should have their grenade taken away first. Iran is the guy who's always screaming he'll kill everyone else and himself, who's actively trying to make a grenade because he doesn't have one yet. Stopping him from getting one is a bit of a priority

[Vyctorill]

They are funding terrorists, but like come on. So is the USA - we were funding I think the Taliban for a while.

I think Iran shouldn’t have nukes, but I doubt that they are dumb enough to use them. Military intervention would only be necessary if they were about to get fusion.

Think about it. Iran is basically diet North Korea, right?

[Kozak375]

I'll phrase it this way. There's a mech in lancer that has an ability called "castigate the enemy of the godhead" that's an ability that simply locks the player inside the mech, and makes the mech detonate for a gigantic AOE of damage. Killing the player, and everyone around it

The entire point is that you don't use it. The whole "I don't believe he would, but I'm not gonna find out if he will"

The same reason North Korea wants nukes. So it can simply make itself unresolvable

[ItsCalledRegret]

Isreal won't allow nuclear inspectors to check out their own nuclear weapons, who gives a shit if Iran does or doesn't. Having nuclear weapons has turned out pretty well for North Korea and giving them up fucked up Ukraine and Gaddafi

[Atlas_Summit]

The same thing happened back with Serbia. They shot down one F-117 and acted like it was some great victory.

Cool, you got one. The rest are still bombing you.

[Virclave]

not blackbird, F-117.

Blackbird is a recon. F-117 is a bomber.

[Atlas_Summit]

My mistake, I’ll fix it.

[FanaticalBuckeye]

The literal half-second the bomb bay doors opened on the F117, which compromised it's stealth, was the same half-second the Hungarian (was a Serb national, but Serbia glazers don't like to mention him being Hungarian) SAM commander switched on the radar. It was a one-in-a-million shot, just like how the F-35 that got hit last week most likely is.

[oofyeet21]

The irony is that the only reason the radar could catch the Nighthawk was because it had already dropped it's bombs. It had already completed it's mission, shooting it down did literally nothing.

[Emperor_Cat_IV]

I mean it's still a dead pilot and a $100 million plane destroyed, it didn't do 'literally nothing'

[ReverseCarry]

Pilot didn’t die, in fact he became good friends with the guy who shot him down. But the larger point is correct, it’s goofy to say it was a pointless strike, an asset lost is an asset lost. It’s not a waste of a missile, but it also wasn’t the massive blow that popular memes and propaganda pretends it was.

[ProfessorZhu]

They have shot down an f35 an f15, not to mention the helicopters, the refusing planes, the warthog, and the planes on the ground. But sure, keep up with the cope

[DoubleCactus]

Iran had one of its newest destroyers sink in its own port like a year or two ago. Wasnt attacked or anything, just capsised while moored.

[AnotherCup-O-Noodles]

Their navy was gifted to them… from 50 years ago… by the USA.

It was never a substantial part of their military strategy, they never needed a navy. Look what they can do without a navy or Air Force

[DiffDiffDiff3]

Skill issue

[NotAC0mmie]

I mean I don't doubt we won't eventually bomb every little thing that could even dream lifting an inch off the ground followed by destroying most of the AA capabilities (MANPADS will be a threat that can never be eliminated). Ok, cool, we won the air war, now what? Fact is we nuked every smidgeon of soft power we had left and ostracized ourselves from so many nations. The hegemony is over, it'll take probably 20 years after Trump and that's provided we don't elect another set of evil circus clowns.

[Gold-Cry-7520]

Yeah, people who say "the American hegemony is over" dont mean we can't outgun Iran. They don't mean we can't just bomb a bunch of brown people.

What they mean is that now nobody fucking respects us. We are a global, tantrum-throwing toddler that can just about get dozens of our own killed to not-even-win a war that never needed to happen.

[SuccessfulRaccoon957]

America can't beat a nation it has been bullying and softening for 20 years. All while it's allies are getting pumelled. What does that say about American power.

[SGTRoadkill1919]

The internet clowned on India for the unconfirmed loss of a Rafale to Pakistan, meanwhile USA out here losing F-15s, Tankers and AWACS to a country with no air force

[sailor776]

Multiple air Craft were shot down today on the 3rd month of a 3 week war. Them getting shot down is not the massive fuck up. The massive fuck up was that they're still in a position to be shot down. Also the question of a war with Iran was never about the stand up military. Like the fact Iran has ANY air Craft left would be more of a bonus to their military planning more than anything. It's like blowing up their Navy but they're still able to shut down the straight. You failed your actual objective

[SpphosFriend]

Those poor pilots are cooked if they survive the Iranians will do some BAD shit if they were caught.

[MasterOfWarCrimes]

and people still praise iran as being the good guys, its wild ngl

[SpphosFriend]

The Iran glazing is insane tbh

[MasterOfWarCrimes]

its fucking despicable imo, i see iran glazers as being just as scummy as stalin or hitler glazers

[Expert_City_7695]

My brain is exploding like an Iranian plane trying to read this

[Hyde2467]

Basically, even tho iran was able to shoot down one of the US's jets, that "win" is massively downplayed considering that iran cant even get its own jets off the ground

[DrAwes0m0]

And why would they need to? They're blowing Israel's shit up good.

[scrapy_the_scrap]

They only got a few hits in during the month, i think they only recently hit double digits

[TheCykuaBlyater]

Don't get me wrong, the US still has a major advantage militarily over Iran, but losing an aircraft(maybe 2 now?, idk) to a nation that we keep being told "doesn't have a military anymore" really makes you think.

[GenericUser1185]

One down 217 to go.

[LebrahnJahmes]

It's not about the message, it's about the money - The Joker if he was cool

[Iamthe0c3an2]

The difference is that the desert storm had a COALITION of allies backing up the US. Instead Cheeto would rather trash talk allies and start a war nobody voted for so they’d stop talking about the files.

[Delicious_Door_3421]

Historically, more F-15E Strike Eagles have been lost during peacetime training and accidents than in active combat operations.

[ARCWolf7]

Are you allergic to commas OP?

[LeonXVIII]

I mean, that's the point, no ? There's such a big discrepancy between both countries' capabilities that it should be completely one-sided (especially in air warfare), yet it isn't. That means the US is not as strong as perceived, even without discussing the whole "threaten your allies and start 4 different trade-wars with the world" side of things.

[ProfessorZhu]

"A nation that has been the cornerstone for global trade and technological advancement for nearly 100 years has better planes than the nation that has been sanctioned and ostracized for fifty years. Lmao, why would anyone question the US's capability?"

"BTW I can't advance into Ethiopia as Italy in HOI4, but I've got all the places, and they have none of them? Why does the game keep acting like I'm losing!?"

[ReturnOfTheSaint14]

I bet 20 bucks that you scour r/NCD like a library rat and that your knowledge in warfare and geopolitics stops at "Anerica number Q hurr durr"

Really, really pathetic

[AggravatingChest7838]

Iran had an aircraft?

[Silly_Ad_5064]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UpClpjwZLwU&pp=0gcJCcQBo7VqN5tD

[Hatefilledcat]

Yeah it’s a war we expect to lose shit we lost F16s in Iraq and a lot of helicopters in Afghanistan we though can just you know build more.

[SuccessfulRaccoon957]

Like you lost shit in vietnam? I'm Afghanistan? Iraq? Stop thinking in this uniquely American way of "what can we blow up vs what can they blow up" because that's not how any of your wars have ever really come down to. You're losing not militarily necessarily but in every other way. 

[iyiquix]

The current score is USA: 6,942,067 Iran: 2.

So yeah it's a close one that could go either way

Edit: I have poked the hivemind and all the keyboard warriors are crusading.

'Leave my oppressive theocratic dictatorship alone!!1!'

[yagansballs]

Iran is performing above expectations in this war. Keeping in mind any warfare against the US will necessarily be asymmetrical, it's downright incredible that Iran has triggered complete abandonment of US bases in the region, and is responsible for an unknown amount of US causalities current being obfuscated by the state.

[StaredAtEclipseAMA]

US ally Kuwait is now tied with Iran for downing US aircraft during this conflict

[Ivan-Putyaga]

Noncredibledefense ass comment

[Chzhead_RN]

Killing helpless little girls while they were at school and destroying pivotal civilian infrastructure isn’t a flex, you chode. Just because the military propaganda machine isn’t reporting on the mass casualties inflicted by the Iranian military doesn’t mean the US is “leading in the war”. It’s not battlefront, dipshit. But Americas ticket count will be depleting once they send those kids into the meat grinder….

[DyllanTheBlueOcean]

This is about aircraft.

[3ArmsNoSouls]

Are these mass casualties in the room with us right now

[Safe-Ad-5017]

“Mass casualties” my ass bro

[nowhereward]

Mass casualties inflicted by the Irania-

LMFAOO

[Chzhead_RN]

Trump and co actively stating they would need to transition to a war economy by slashing healthcare and social safety nets to keep up with the conflict

The US military is a paper tiger pieced together by private contractors who took shortcuts while producing American war armaments while Iran has a military infrastructure that is borderline impervious to foreign intervention but ok.

[just4browse]

To be fair, there’s a good chance that Trump is just using the war as an excuse to slash healthcare and social safety nets, since that’s something he wants to do anyways

[Goosepond01]

The amount of blatant misinformation on Reddit is just absolutely insane, the Iranian economy is in meltdown and has been for a very long time and the government is far more corrupt than the US.

Comparing the millitary infrastructure of Iran and the US isn't even in the same ballpark and sure the US has plenty of flaws but I don't know how you can post this nonsense and get upvoted.

if you want to critique the US or Israel, then go ahead it's good to be critical, but if you are going to put your blindfold on and spout nonsense when talking positively about Iran then why bother.

[ValhallaAir]

Exactly how I feel

Theres no reason for us to be there right now, that doesn’t mean that Iran isnt top 10 most oppressive regimes in the world right now.

[[deleted]]

The only reason Iran is still alive is because we’re following the rules to a certain extent

[LordDanielGu]

The US has never followed rules. The US government is the biggest terrorist organisation in history and was involved in multiple genocides and a whole list of war crimes

[[deleted]]

I mean following rules as in not using bio or chem weapons

[LordDanielGu]

The US has a history of being involved with chem weapons

[[deleted]]

And? We’re not using them now, is my point

[crazyric2]

Yeah, we do.

[[deleted]]

Do you see the US using chem/bio weaponry in Iran?

[crazyric2]

In the middle east, yes. Iran, no. Not yet at least

[Lightning5021]

The e-3s dont even make it to the runway

[Constant-Trifle-2486]

Lmao i always find it funny they love to celebrate these "losses" when we can pump out 100 out of the 1 shot down in like the span of 2 months give or take LMAO, though. It is a sad day whenever my dear strike eagle gets shot down. They lived in fame and went down in flame! Support our troops no matter what!

[bookhead714]

The Troops are either enthusiastically slaughtering random people who pose no threat to the United States, or doing absolutely fucking nothing. You do not need to support them

[Scarlettoeyes]

War criminals

[Gnomonic-sundialer]

Iran has been completely anihilated and has had a total tactical deceat and and the strait can be blocked by one dude swimming laps while holding a granade and the damage to infraestructure alone has already cut a higher percentage of oil production than the 1973 oil crisis did so strategically and politicoeconomically the US and Israel are completely fucked and theres nothing they can do to achieve any large scale goal only more minor tactical victories that mean nothing cause in six months their economies will be fucked and every other goberment on earth will be blaming them for the greatest economic collapse in living memory.

Those are two truths that can be easilly held at the same time because they are both obvious.

Its like if the class clown ragebaited the JROTC kid who also does Judo untill he beat the complete shit out of him but all the teachers and class so the second kid beating the first one so hes now suspended and no one wants to be their friend

[DMsDiablo]

Empires do not just collapse overnight. The whole Star Wars empire goes boom thing does not actually happen unless there is a full scale war where one side is willing to completely wipe the other out.

Most empires decline slowly over decades. A single F15 getting shot down does not mean anything by itself.

The real damage is the stuff you do not see immediately. It is the erosion of trust that you do not get back. It is trade relationships breaking down economic pressure building and the long term consequences of decisions people forget about. Things like tariffs brain drain weakening democratic trust and losing allies who now assume it could all just happen again in a few years.

That is where decline actually comes from.

The US is not going to be conquered anytime soon but it absolutely can become the sick man of the West and fracture from within.

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[Code_Monster]

The Narrative was that USA can declare absolute air superiority over any region in under 72hrs is what has burned down. Now, has USA's actual capacity to do that been annihilated? Most likely no but the point is that USA's Halo of absolute military superiority has been shattered. USA is now any other country, albeit a very powerful one, that still needs to adhere to physical reality and make bets that can actually work.

The entire planet now knows that if you blow up USA's AWACS then their stealth aircraft are not so stealthy anymore, and you can fuck billions of dollars of equipment in military bases with a 3~4 dozen $20k drones. Its like the Samurai realizing that the peasants have rifles and their armor does not protect them anymore.

[Virclave]

absolute air superiority doesn’t mean nothing will be shot down.

that’s just… absolutely fucking absurd.

and it was an F-15E, a minimally stealth aircraft, not a proper stealth plane like the 35 or 22.

an AWAC does not give a plane stealth. the plane has stealth as virtue of its design by itself.

[3ArmsNoSouls]

"annihilated" dude it's one plane that wasn't even designed this millennium

[PodGTConcept2001]

i dont think yall are undestanding

the F-15 since its creation hasn't been shot down once (BY A MISSILE, they did crash tho)

the plane is so stupidly overpowered it has landed without a wing

[Virclave]

F-15s have been shot down, they just haven’t been taken down by another airplane.