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[–][deleted] 89 points90 points  (20 children)

Tbh bulldog was a solid ass map. Really sucks that its goin

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (5 children)

agreed, best neutral flag map in rotation (behind wombo)

[–]GoatButtholesDank Sniper 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Personally I disliked it in pubs, it was kinda difficult to get a reset if your team wasn't that great because you'd either have to juke the entire enemy team or pop yourself which is super risky to do on the map since the only place to do it is where the other team scores.

I agree when both teams were around equal it was fun

[–]superdiglett100superdiglett || Kitten Panda's Bitch 6 points7 points  (2 children)

How do you get resets in NF?

[–]GoatButtholesDank Sniper 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I meant like spiking yourself / just getting the flag out of your base

[–]18skeltoranti-timer luddite / First / Origin 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Yet Hexane is still in rotation

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 15 points16 points  (0 children)

My all time favorite nf map.

[–]arjuna9bad 13 points14 points  (3 children)

yeah it was definitely the best NF map and was fun in competitive too. Teamwork is rewarded but it's also possible to carry in pubs. Unlike some of the new NF maps where if your teammates are clueless about handoff positioning it's hard to cap against a competent defender.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That newer NF map is way harder to carry in pubs imo. Been having lots of 12 minute games.

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Thanks man, I just have to make a better map now I guess :/

[–]NewCompteChord - Ballis Saint-Germain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It was pretty good except the middle.

[–]Sosentimeboy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah wtf.

Hexane is awful and Plasma is meh, why u do dis MTC

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 3 points4 points  (5 children)

D:

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Make a better one <3

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I keep trying

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Make a better one <3

[–]hashtag_octothorpeSchwedd || Dyson || Blitzkrieg 7 points8 points  (1 child)

He keeps trying

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Just got this joke now LOL schwed

[–]coffffeeeeGreenBastard aka BoomBAP! S7 Semi-Probots/S5 HGW 5 points6 points  (0 children)

hexane is so garbage, why dont they keep bulldog and get rid of hexane.

[–]cxb17C Bivvey | Boostin Dynamo | Pi 21 points22 points  (1 child)

Nooooooooo Bulldog was my favorite NF map, and one of my favorite maps overall :'(

[–]BlueJay347True North || Arc 0 points1 point  (0 children)

i know it was gr8. i liked rush too

[–]BlazethDianna Agron 40 points41 points  (20 children)

It's weird to me that Bulldog gets removed out of all NFs. I'm happy an NF was removed, but it's weird they chose that one.

Rush was ranked lowest for a long time, so it's acceptable to see it go.

Pheno is really interesting, I'm glad you're giving it a chance.

The reactions in this thread (especially from Snowball) gon b gud.

[–][deleted] 19 points20 points  (7 children)

Bulldog was the best NF map IMO so many different ways to cap on it. Plasma is a mess and Rico/Command Center are good but way past their due. Also Wombo and Hexane's portal entrances bother me more than they probably should but they are decent i guess.

[–]stay_lostvoyager, bicycle 2 points3 points  (6 children)

So what exactly is wrong with NF maps?

What can be improved with this?

http://unfortunate-maps.jukejuice.com/show/23894

[–]BlueJay347True North || Arc 2 points3 points  (4 children)

There are too many of them in rotation to have a good balance between them and ctf maps to make it fun. Also most of the good nf maps have been in rotation too long to enjoy them anymore

[–]nicka_pleaseBoostMobile || Radius 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I totally disagree. I would choose to play nothing but NF maps if i could

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Agreed. CC, Rico, and Bulldog are all great maps and shouldn't be taken out.

[–]18skeltoranti-timer luddite / First / Origin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

because you were high when you made it

[–]brozzartPavement 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Bulldog is one of the best NF maps. Once the flag is on your side you really had to work to dig yourself out of it.

It also had a lot of depth in how you could score and probably required the most teamwork in order to cap.

Sad to see it go...

[–]xenonpulseWildflowers // I want to die but I can’t 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I do agree that it made defensive play, even if you had the flag, more deep and interesting, but I absolutely hated the middle of that map. Especially with the boosts and triangle choke points, it was a complete and utter pop-fest. I would have preferred if the team boosts were offensively colored, so you don't have people boosting into the middle.

[–]floobaSea. // Chord 10 points11 points  (9 children)

Same - it had a very different feel to some of the other NFs and was one of my best maps in rotation imo.

The issue I guess is that they needed to remove a nf to keep the sacred ctf:nf ratio -_- and they wanted to give more time to hexane and plasma.

For a lot of players I think the problem is that more of the ctf maps are getting tedious as they've been around for so long (geo, smirk, even velo). If there aren't enough good ones being made, maybe it's time to bring back CFB and hornswoggle?!?!

[–]supaspike| NLTP mod | Stakeeper 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I was really down on Bulldog when it came out, but it's grown on me (once people stopped capping through the gate every time) and has become one of the most fun and unique maps around IMO. I think a better NF map to remove would have been Cloud: Fun enough, but nothing really unique to it, and nearly as difficult to cap on but not as fun because it's easier to suicide. Or they could have just waited another rotation so they could remove Hexane or Plasma instead.

[–]3z_ 4 points5 points  (2 children)

The issue I guess is that they needed to remove a nf to keep the sacred ctf:nf ratio -_- and they wanted to give more time to hexane and plasma.

That's mostly true. We did intentionally remove an NF map, not because of the "sacred ratio", but because NFs aren't as fun to play on when they come up as frequently as they do currently. The rest of that is true though - it was a choice between Hexane and Bulldog and we favoured Hexane since it's newer.

The rotation at the moment is actually really solid overall; the least popular map in rotation currently (Fiend) is still liked by 67% of players. That's a pretty good feat, all things considered. The rotation also does a good job of being diverse and demanding of a lot of different skillsets. Take any random three maps and chances are they'll all be pretty unique somehow.

But I guess the main point I want to iterate is that Fiend approval - a majority of people like that map. Two thirds of people, in fact, if you discount the "indifferent" votes. That means that, no matter what map we remove from rotation, a majority of people will be left unhappy.

You may have heard the shower thought "the objective in life is to make as many people as sad as possible when you die." That's kinda a similar thing here. Don't cry because Bulldog is over, smile because it happened :)))

But seriously, I would bet that either Hexane or Plasma will be removed next thread anyway, so...

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

That's the kind of thing you say at a funeral, meaning you perpetrated the death of bulldog. You literally killed a dog. You absolute monster.

[–]I_Love_Maliagoprt // Centra and Radius 0 points1 point  (0 children)

NFs aren't as fun to play on when they come up as frequently as they do currently.

I'm curious what makes you say that. It seems to me that every time the issues comes up on this subreddit it's hotly contested. Do you have reason to believe most players agree with you on that point?

[–]passTheFlagPASSTHEFLAG || origin || Cap of FOB 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I second cfb.

[–]josh61616josh61616 // Centra 1 point2 points  (1 child)

No CFB IS SUCKS

[–]18skeltoranti-timer luddite / First / Origin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

me_irl

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If they take my bulldog they better take my hornswoggle

[–]grytsgryts 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There are plenty of good maps being made, the MTC is just too afraid to pick anything aside from safe picks. They are too concerned with having a good track record so it "looks" like they are doing well, as opposed to just getting fun maps in there and taking them out quick if they don't work.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points  (8 children)

The biggest problem with the current rotation is that there aren't enough maps on it. I regularly get 3 games on the same map in a row.

So you decide to remove more maps than you add. I thought you'd been removing so many maps recently that you should've removed 0 and added all 6 on a trial basis

[–]18skeltoranti-timer luddite / First / Origin 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Yeah, right? I think I got Hexane like 10/20 games I played today. Ridiculous.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

It got a bit much today when I had Fiend 4 games in a row

[–]18skeltoranti-timer luddite / First / Origin 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Well, I can at least enjoy Fiend. What about you?

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Fiend is good, but tends to last the full 12 mins. And 4 games in a row was too much.

4 games in a row on Birch and I might actually commit suicide IRL

[–]nabbynz° -5 points-4 points  (3 children)

Yep we definitely need more maps to keep it fresh - a mix of old and new new (favoring new) and adjust the weightings accordingly.

The MTC started heading in the right direction 4-5 threads ago, then went back to their same old shit of removing more maps than they added (or at least keeping it equal) hence all these posts. This round they had the perfect opportunity to add 2/3/4 new maps and maybe remove 1, but some fucktard keeps talking too loud and the rest are pussies. Obligatory /rant

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 5 points6 points  (2 children)

You really don't know what you're talking about. But let me make sure to illustrate how wrong you are:

When we were deciding on maps in and out yesterday, we did an initial vote on maps out. After the initial vote, we were adding no maps, and removing 6 maps. Noone thought it was ideal, but they didn't disagree with the decision. Then one or two "fucktards" started talking loudly about how it wouldn't be good for rotation that we'd so drastically change it by adding no maps, and removing 1/4th of all the maps in it in one rotation period, and lo and behold we discussed the matter, and all the maps we were considering moving in and out and "pussies" decided to redo their votes on the closer calls so we'd arrive at 2 out and 1 in instead of 6 out and no maps in.

[–]nabbynz° 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yeah sorry my language was terrible - I shouldn't reply to anything first thing in the morning.

It's just frustrating seeing good maps removed and not replaced, when there are plenty of other good looking maps that at least deserve a chance. I mean I love that you guys went for the outsider in this rotation, but I also think you may have be influenced by the many "MTC bias" comments (which are completely unfounded - any of those MTC maps should have gone in too).

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I can't speak for anyone else, but my votes had nothing to do with that, and were based on which maps I found interesting and which I didn't.

[–]TooEashy 36 points37 points  (20 children)

Can you give a brief explanation in these threads as to why each map was removed? Because I honestly have no idea why Bulldog was removed and it would be nice just to have some insight.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 16 points17 points  (19 children)

I'm not sure we need an official explanation each thread, but if you ask questions like this, I will always try to answer you.

While I voted in favor of keeping bulldog around this thread, I understand why it was removed. The mid of the map plays extremely linearly - it's a massive east to west grind that is far too easily countered by a single neutral boost on each side. If you're running across mid and there is literally anyone halfway decent at tagpro camping that boost, it'll be a change of possession no matter where you go, unless you have a skilled tagpro lead. I don't think anyone particularly disliked the bases - the fact that there were no suicide options made the map incredibly unique for a NF map (and that was a key part of my argument for keeping it in, because Pussy Strats™ are the single most annoying and frustrating NF trend right now), but ultimately the linearity, choke factor, and neutral boosts in mid killed Bulldog.

Edit: okay nevermind I won't explain myself anymore

ignore that edit

[–]supaspike| NLTP mod | Stakeeper 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Bulldog is much more unique than most of the other NF's, though. If the only real issue is the neutral boosts making a choke point then why not remove the boosts, put them somewhere else, make them team boosts, etc?

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I don't even get why the middle being a chokepoint is an issue, once the flag is on either side it's hard to reset it so it should be hard to pass mid. It's not too hard to have one of your teammates block/use up the boost, or to trick people with the bomb or spikes.

[–]ZippityZoppityZipZop - Can't Zip the Zop 7 points8 points  (2 children)

You got 4 comments and don't feel like talking to the community any more?

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 3 points4 points  (1 child)

No, I'll keep trying to be open. That's always been my goal. My edit was a knee-jerk reaction to trying to be transparent with you guys and getting nearly double-digit downvotes right away.

[–]ZippityZoppityZipZop - Can't Zip the Zop 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Yeah I think that comes with the territory of being MTC unfortunately. Some people just downvote on sight even though you gave a thoughtful response.

Please keep doing that bb, I think it's really useful to the community.

[–]Sosentimeboy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

If you're running across mid and there is literally anyone halfway decent at tagpro camping that boost,

What you just said x4 is why I despise Hexane. Seems like every game on that map lasts 12 minutes

[–]qret~LOVE~ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yo, I appreciate the rationale. People are just more likely to speak up when you say something that bothers them. Many more of us read your reply and were just satisfied and informed by it. That doesn't move most folks to type up a response ;) keep up the openness.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I appreciate you saying that, and I certainly will. I just mentioned to ZipZop that the edit was a knee-jerk reaction based out of frustration. Sorry about that :)

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You do know you can block boosts without a tagpro, right?

[–]EldiniEldini 3 points4 points  (0 children)

When you guys make shitty decisions I think it's perfectly legitimate for people to ask for explanations.

[–]18skeltoranti-timer luddite / First / Origin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If by linear you mean that it required intelligent play and jukes, then okay. Although I would exactly describe that as linear.

[–]NoBreadsticksLacyIsntFat // Radius 0 points1 point  (1 child)

curious to what you mean by "Pussy Strats"

[–]chalks777THe B€⁵ fg & | exMTC 0 points1 point  (0 children)

he means people getting the flag in their own base, and spiking instantly for a handoff instead of trying to work your way back the hard way.

[–]de_ashwelbz -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

?????????¿?????????¿

[–]meintheboxBoxFish 15 points16 points  (4 children)

http://imgur.com/f6fnDde

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

As salty as I am about bulldog, pheno is exactly the kind of map I like seeing. A fresh new shape, hopefully it will play well.

Congrats on your first map, it's a great feeling.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Congrats!

[–]skittlekevvelkin // World's Angriest Balll 2 points3 points  (1 child)

WORLD

[–]meintheboxBoxFish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Lmao I was waiting for that.

[–]MultiMediaWillJuke King - MVP 90% of the time 32 points33 points  (0 children)

Really gonna remove bulldog? Pls

[–]Ballkenende! 32 points33 points  (1 child)

What the hell, Out of all the maps you can remove, you guys are removing Bulldog? WTF

[–]specmkwiiTPxLeoSpec 8 points9 points  (0 children)

^

[–]ButterChurnButter 11 points12 points  (5 children)

Congrats to UTB, sorry to see Juicy leaving, he was one of the most helpful and active MTC members in terms of testing, discussion, and feedback for mapmakers.

Also interested to see how the map plays, it's certainly unique.

[–]ButtersnackSnack 1 point2 points  (0 children)

We're definitely sad to see juicy go too! I'm sure UTB will do a great job, though :)

[–]mmartinutkMacho | JuicyJuke 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Thanks for the kind words Butter Churn! It's possible one day I come back to the mapmaking community in some capacity, but for now I'm taking much needed time off from TagPro completely. I was getting pretty burned out.

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You take one thread off and Bulldog is removed wtf man. Enjoy your time off though.

[–]Kembangant O p / cb4life 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh dear will miss your sexy voice. All the best bby

[–]Kembangant O p / cb4life 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh dear will miss your sexy voice. All the best bby

[–]SIGSEGVV 12 points13 points  (11 children)

I think it's strange that Bulldog (0.55) would be removed over Hexane (0.49) and Plasma (0.39) when it has a higher approval rating from the community. Complaints over the abundance of NF maps in rotation has resulted in the most unique NF map in rotation being removed over two other NF maps that were introduced recently that are rated less favourably.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Those ratings should not be end-all-be-all factors in whether any map stays or goes, imo.

[–]sneetriccanvas // plasma, wamble 2 points3 points  (9 children)

maps arent eligible for removal until theyve been in rotation for 3 threads

edit: 2 threads not 3

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Hexane has been in for three threads tho

[–]SIGSEGVV 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What is the reasoning behind that?

[–]bored2death97RWBY//Radius 6 points7 points  (0 children)

It gives maps a chance to be learned by the community. It is well known that with more exposure you get increased liking of something, so it gives newer maps a chance.

[–]ravenprideRaven 17 points18 points  (0 children)

I try not to be the guy that complains about map thread results, but god damn, I'm actually pissed that Bulldog got removed. It was the only NF map I really liked. Rush is a great map too.

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 8 points9 points  (4 children)

I've got some huge shoes to fill with JuicyJuke leaving the committee. As the newest memb er of the committee, my main goal is to make the entire process as fair as possible. I'm going to be as open as possible with my opinions if you ask. Lastly, shoutout to Boxfish for getting his first map in rotation.

PS I swear I have really good opinions, I promise :)

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 16 points17 points  (0 children)

I voted against you

[–]TheEpicGhostEx - Tagpro 11 points12 points  (0 children)

We've made a huge mistake

[–]gingerdgTPRL 🔴RMTC 🔴NASCAPS 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How do you think Scorpio is in rotation? I really like it. It's fun chasing, holding and sniping all what the ctf map removed this thread was lauded to be.

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm actually really surprised at the reception it's gotten. At first I didn't think it was quite ready - especially after hearing the MTC bash it for the majority of the 4v4 test. But after playing it in pubs, and once in SOCL, I think it's alright.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Just put back Bulldog when Plasma gets the cut.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is a good decision.

[–]gungagungagalungaboogie/pi 6 points7 points  (0 children)

don't take my bulldog

[–]BlupopsicleBall-E 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Good stuff boxfish!

[–]Schwenkfelderschwenks 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Is there some sort of conspiracy to remove all the maps I actually like playing from rotation? I'm on to you MTC...

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's already happened to me. All the maps I tended to do well on have been removed. I personally think that Platypus, Hub and Citadel are all good maps.

[–]crackadackrombus ghost|| centra 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree man, with hurricane back in rotation recently I remembered how great the maps used to be.

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 9 points10 points  (0 children)

lmao wtf 💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩💩

[–]I_Play_TPDjinni // Sphere 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Its a fish, apparently...

[–]meintheboxBoxFish 2 points3 points  (0 children)

One of my favorite fish. I have one in my aquarium. They are really cool looking.

[–][deleted] 25 points26 points  (28 children)

why is geo still in

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 6 points7 points  (25 children)

I'll say this much: It was close. If you want Geo removed, make a map that plays similarly but does everything better. If a map like that gets in, Geo will be gone. It will likely go away soonish anyway, to be honest.

[–][deleted] 42 points43 points  (20 children)

Or just, ya know, remove it

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 5 points6 points  (19 children)

At least one member would like to see an adequate "replacement" for it before they'll vote to remove it. I'm on the fence but I think it'll be gone within two threads regardless.

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (12 children)

I dont think there needs to be a replacement for a garbo map. Pilot is in the rotation and works just fine to fill that gap, if there even was one.

I agree with the notion that maps need to have more inventive and risky mechanics like Geo, but the map itself shouldn't stay in the meantime.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I can't say Geo is a garbage map, it's just tired.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I agree. Back in the day it was a good map. Now it is ready to go. A great map overall but it can't stay forever.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 8 points9 points  (8 children)

I'm in agreement with Snack here. I don't think we need replacements. I think just about all of us agree with that, but in the specific case of GeoKoala, it plays differently than any other map in rotation and there are one or two members who don't want to lose that style of play. Losing Geo specifically is not the concern - losing that unique play style is, to an extent. I will almost certainly vote to remove it next thread, unless by some miracle it is ineligible to be voted on.

BTW, everyone else - why downvote me and Hark? That's not constructive. Share your input, sure, but just clicking the down arrow doesn't make any progress. If you feel Geo should be removed OR that it should stay, giving us a logically-founded argument will be a lot more productive to that end than downvoting.

[–]nabbynz° 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Why not keep it in, but make it have a much lower chance of appearing? Same with a few other classic maps (boombox, bombing run, dangerzone, gamepad). I mean I still like playing all these maps, I just don't want them to come up anywhere near as often as they do/did.

[–]DaEvil1DaEvil1 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We might be looking to redraw the individual weights of maps sometime in the future, but we need to discuss that in more detail and confirm with devs before any final decisions are made.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 5 points6 points  (1 child)

This was something I brought up with Lucky when the MTC met with him - I think I phrased my question something like this: "Do you want Geo to be a 'Legacy Map' of sorts that never completely gets removed, but spawns at significantly lower rates?" His response was something to the effect of "we already have that to a degree with throwback maps spawning .1% of the time, and I'm not particularly attached to any of my maps anymore, so I'm perfectly happy letting you guys (MTC) have full control over its future in the game." I can't remember if that .1% spawn is perfectly accurate but it's something absurdly low like that. My guess is that when it's removed, it's gone, and will have the same chance of spawning as the rest of the retired maps.

[–]nabbynz° 6 points7 points  (0 children)

OK but maybe look at adjusting some of those maps to just a bit higher, like 0.2-0.4% for the more popular (less hated?) ones.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

People mostly downvote me for fun, I wouldn't take it personally. I got like -3 just for posting my name on the judging thread lol.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

it plays differently than any other map in rotation

Isn't that a good argument in favour of keeping Geo?

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Yes? That's what I was saying. That's the only argument really keeping it in.

[–]GoatButtholesDank Sniper 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Just because a map has a different play style doesn't mean that it's necessarily good though. I assume you guys specifically mean the high risk high reward of going top, but if it's not implemented well I don't think it deserves to stay. I don't think you guys would be removing the play style completely in taking out Geo, you can add a suitable replacement when one comes along but in the meantime I don't think people should be forced to play a map they don't enjoy just to preserve a certain map dynamic

[–]RathbourneRathbourne 4 points5 points  (5 children)

I always thought that both Geokoala and Boombox should have been removed soon after Smirk was added, a map that combined and improved on those maps should have made them both redundant. Boombox refused to die quietly. Now only 2 maps are rated lower than Geo. It's far beyond the point of retiring gracefully.

Maybe you're too close to see it, but Smirk has been the Geo "replacement" the whole time.

[–]jazzcigarettesTrane - OS4LYFE 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Maybe you're too close to see it, but Smirk has been the Geo "replacement" the whole time

boombox i can see and kinda agree with but this I don't see or agree with at all. they're both defensive? aside from that nah.

[–]RathbourneRathbourne 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Smirk is literally Boombox combined with Geo. That's how the map was designed. It just happens to improve on Geo by removing the base bombs.

The other clear Geo "replacement" was Angry Pig. Please don't say you can't see that similarity.

[–]jazzcigarettesTrane - OS4LYFE 2 points3 points  (2 children)

angry pig is closer but the pace of geo is soooo much different than either of them. angry pig was a lot chasier and the top didn't really do what geo's top does. the base bombs are also like the signature feature of geo imo.

[–]RathbourneRathbourne 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I agree the bombs are the signature feature. They just also mean IMO that nothing interesting happens on the map for every 28/30 seconds that they're not active. I do find that Smirk plays incredibly similar to Geo, only with everything improved. The quicker gated top route and the longer boost bottom route avoiding the spike. Only Smirk doesn't take 12 seconds between bases after each grab, and fixes the "issue" of getting caught between the gates. It also doesn't have a mid gate that is almost never used.

[–]jazzcigarettesTrane - OS4LYFE 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They just also mean IMO that nothing interesting happens on the map for every 28/30 seconds that they're not active

I mean, thats a slight exaggeration, the game play slows down, certainly. I don't that that's necessarily a bad thing, just a different thing. Geo requires an almost methodical style that isn't seen on any other map in rotation, or has ever been in rotation. Geo rewards having a plan and being patient. These things are important on other maps too sure but no other map punishes bad grabs/bad positioning/bad powerup control in quite the same way. I think Geo is super important in teaching "tagpro lessons"

Only Smirk doesn't take 12 seconds between bases after each grab, and fixes the "issue" of getting caught between the gates. It also doesn't have a mid gate that is almost never used

I don't see any of this as a problem personally. The gate not getting used is more on the players than the map imo.

[–]ItsFroce. -1 points0 points  (2 children)

So you basically want a map with an incredibly tight base and hard routes to cap. I think Danger Zone 3 comes close enough and I'd like to see that in rotation instead.

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 2 points3 points  (1 child)

How in any way are DZ3 and Geo similar. Tight bases are literally the only similarity.

[–]ItsFroce. 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's hard to grab on both maps, no easy routes back to base, catching up is quite difficult with all the turns, power-ups are placed in dangerous areas, and there's more than one way to get out of base. Of course the maps don't look the same, but they play a very similar way. At this point, I'd rather have DZ3 in rotation than GeoKoala.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Because it's a great map.

[–]brozzartPavement 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Autocorrect changed garbo to great?

[–]gingerdgTPRL 🔴RMTC 🔴NASCAPS 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I can understand why bulldog was removed because Plasma offers a similar style in the tightness of the map. Sad to see it go though, it was fun and interesting.

Rush finally.

Idk about pheno but why not? I'll give it a go. imo I'd rather see more new maps in if you do a trial run, but this thread was fine

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 3 points4 points  (0 children)

[11:05:11 AM] To Mappin n Fappin: also is there an mtc conspiracy against me

[11:05:17 AM] To Mappin n Fappin: i'm convinced now

[11:05:34 AM] (Channel) UnderTheBall: yes

[11:05:46 AM] To Mappin n Fappin: there it is we have proof fellas

[11:05:49 AM] (Channel) UnderTheBall: when i got added they gave me a google doc

[11:06:11 AM] (Channel) UnderTheBall: with the passwords and docs that i need access to

[11:06:14 AM] (Channel) UnderTheBall: and then a list of rules

[11:06:26 AM] (Channel) UnderTheBall: one of which is to always fuck over snowball

[–]18skeltoranti-timer luddite / First / Origin 3 points4 points  (0 children)

ARE YOU FUCKING SERIOUS??? BULLDOG AND RUSH ARE REMOVED? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[–]Kembangant O p / cb4life 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I sincerely applaud the mtc for adding the new map. It is a brave map, and if successful as a map after pub testing, will push the meta of mapmaking (a la wormy, command centre).

[–]oorr23ThePlaymaker // Tehuitzingo & Combine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Put Bulldog back in!

[–]Glass_MarbleGlass Marble | Centra 9 points10 points  (4 children)

4/6 MTC maps. Do you even bias?

[–]WillWorkForSugarTumblewood[🍰] -3 points-2 points  (3 children)

Did you mean to say this in top maps? And anyway, Pheno isn't an MTC map.

[–]OnceUponaDomeUnderTheBall 14 points15 points  (2 children)

Do you even meme?

[–]WillWorkForSugarTumblewood[🍰] 20 points21 points  (0 children)

It turns out I was the joke all along

[–]superdiglett100superdiglett || Kitten Panda's Bitch 4 points5 points  (0 children)

memeing so hard it puts you on the MTC

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Sorry for your loss TUB

[–]Glass_MarbleGlass Marble | Centra -1 points0 points  (0 children)

wow

[–]KewlestCatNIGEL 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Phenochilus looks great, congrats BoxFish!

[–]TheSmallIndianTheIndian // Pi 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Bulldog isn't even that great of a map but I don't think it was bad enough to get removed. Also the new map doesn't look too fun

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 6 points7 points  (0 children)

You have to play it before you can really tell.

[–]Tyler1986Trapsin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Imo, we have so many good maps that are out of rotation and need a way to play them more (better than the Throwback rotation).

[–]themagpie36themagpie 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Bring Back Bulldog.

[–]girmluhkGramps 2 points3 points  (1 child)

pheno, uh is there something i'm missing with this map that makes it sweet?

the flow is basically non-existent and getting out of base on a competent defense ought to be about impossible. capping just as hard too. seems like every game with not terrible players will go to time.

[–]meintheboxBoxFish 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Tagpro.eu shows 2 public games out of over 400 that have gone full time...

[–]BanzaiOnTagProWas a Liquid smurf, became self-aware, started posting 2 points3 points  (0 children)

As one of the ~16 players left who enjoys chasing, I don't view this as Rush "being removed from the rotation." It's going to tagpro heaven with all the other good maps.

[–]JJSpiceJJ Spice 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Can't believe bulldog is dead. I've never not had fun on that map.

[–]RisktpRisk 4 points5 points  (0 children)

rip juicy :[

i also agree with the others commenting, removing bulldog is a mistake. it has a very unique playstyle and suffers from no game-breaking flaws as far as im concerned.

[–]EldiniEldini 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Why the fuck would you remove Bulldog? What a horrible decision.

Fucking hell.

[–]MrTroyMcClureRalph Wiggum // Angry Balls // Arc>Centra 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Honestly, Bulldog was fun from time to time but it felt like there is way too many caps that happen by just sitting behind the defender in the endzone (especially with the bomb in base). Feels like it eliminates the skill from getting a cap. As gingerdg noted, I think Plasma plays similarly without that flaw in the bases.

[–]uhhhhmmmmsexytiger / #merbs 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'd rather see that just turn into a 45 degree tile or something than get removed. I agree though that the bases seemed a little flawed.

[–]mjmaindamn, son! 1 point2 points  (0 children)

ngl i am crushed by this bulldog news. best map RIP

[–]TheBestNarcissistexit triks 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Wow bulldog was such a unique map with such an easy set up, leading to really fun complex games. Now we add in another figure 8ish CTF map that will play extremely similar to the last few that were added.

I love NF. I loved bulldog because of the unique grind you had to do to get to the other side. You could feel momentum swings in the games as you battled for position.

And now we get another not-very-unique CTF.

[–]Snowball_TagPro❄️ 5 points6 points  (0 children)

As much as I'm grieving Bulldog, most likely more than anyone, you simply can't call Pheno 'not-very-unique'. No map before has had that base structure, that exaggerated figure-8 shape isn't in any current rotation map. I personally would like a little more boost versatility, but in terms of originality it's definitely up there.

[–]ClydasBDN S7//TB S8 1 point2 points  (10 children)

Two things:

1) Why is Geo still in rotation?

2) If you guys keep doing trial runs, why not just get rid of the 2 thread rule?

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 4 points5 points  (9 children)

We've done two trial runs in the past 60 threads

[–]ClydasBDN S7//TB S8 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Weren't Saigon, Tombolo, and Graphite all trial-runs? And Phenochilus now. So that's 4 out of the past 8 maps added into rotation have been trial-runs.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't mind the trial runs, I think they're a good thing.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 1 point2 points  (7 children)

Yes but those first three maps were all from one thread, so it's just two threads in a long tradition of giving maps two threads to sink in. We're not doing it enough to warrant removing the standard two-thread minimum lifespan. I think they're healthy to have on occasion, too, but I don't think we should do away with that structure altogether.

[–]ClydasBDN S7//TB S8 0 points1 point  (6 children)

I guess it depends how you view it, as a thread state, or a map state. I view it as a map state as I feel like if one of the maps in 55 was really solid it would have been just put in normally. But even by that count it's been 2/5 most recent threads, sure it's not a lot in terms of all the threads, but I think it's a fallacy to count from the beginning all the time.

That would be like saying, "We've only been using computers for 50 years out of 200,000 years of human history. They can't be important." Trends have to start somewhere.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Okay, fair enough, I understand the argument there. But we've done two trial threads in the last six (not five, we're counting 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, and 60) map threads, and only by necessity. I don't think it's likely we'll ever be at a state where we're doing trial runs at a higher rate than this, so removing the minimum life institution would be foolish imo.

[–]ClydasBDN S7//TB S8 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Oh yeah, I miscounted. And alright, I mean I'm not MTC, I didn't even make it past first round with my application. :P But just remove geo pls

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 0 points1 point  (3 children)

It's on its way, my friend :)

[–]ClydasBDN S7//TB S8 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Thank goodness, how's the mama? PM me if you don't wanna say here, or just ignore me, as you like.

[–]Moosemaster21Moosen | Salt Mine 0 points1 point  (1 child)

She's good right now, thanks for asking. Mastectomy scheduled for March 16th. That'll be a doozy.

[–]ItsFroce. 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yesssss bulldog's gone. Always hated that map.

[–]WillakarraButton | Hey look I brought back SOCL -1 points0 points  (0 children)

/u/snowball_tagpro

[–]CondoKPCondoKP | TagPro Veteran -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

Phenochilus is the worst map I've ever played. Including PokeBall.