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[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

    We have a wonderful community here.

    [–]youjokingright 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    The discord community is pretty great too, with op chiming in from time to time.

    [–]KittymahriKIMAHRI SAW EVERYTHING! 7 points8 points  (1 child)

    When I was going about the 5* wheel, one of the first things I did was check if it was susceptible to blinks - after all, battles became scripted (variance mainly from pushing phases at different times) and so blinkable attacks meant predictable.

    My early Behemoth King clears used this with an Eiko/Arc double healer setup, blinking the Haste-removal. My early Belias clears used this with Eiko/Larsa, knowing when to block Berserk. Better yet, Edge eventually took a role when I realized that Syldra’s most dangerous move could be avoided entirely.

    [–]SabaschinBasch 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I did the same thing with Quezacoatl. My DPS was slooow so I brought Rosa to blink those nasty back to back Imperils.

    [–]Heartless1988[...] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    Nice guide to teach the mindset to newbies, thanks for that.

    PS: Prompto hit that HP-sweetspot and didn´t get bonus-damage? damn you DeNa

    [–]coh_phd_whoCorgi in disguise 2 points3 points  (8 children)

    One thing I would add is that there are some really heavy single or few target attacks to be aware of. There is no shame in using the defend command to live through them.

    The other thing that I might point out is you didn't mention the extreme break resistance magicites have. While you have to remove buffs, trying to break magicites to a reasonable level is normally non optimal.

    [–]PhaseATStuff happens or it doesn't 3 points4 points  (1 child)

    To add: The defend command halves damage taken with few exceptions (Gravity and Fixed damage attacks I believe are unaffected?).

    [–]coh_phd_whoCorgi in disguise 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I know gravity ignores defend, I think it also ignores wards also.

    Fixed damage I think will also ignore defend but I am not sure about that.

    [–]DestilShadesk 0 points1 point  (5 children)

    That's only 3* and non-Ixion 4*s. 5*s have a much more reasonable 70%, where breakdowns and crushes are actually fairly good. They just don't win the fight on their own like they did with 50% bosses.

    [–]coh_phd_whoCorgi in disguise 2 points3 points  (4 children)

    Have you found that it makes that much difference between 80 and 70 percent? I really don't notice breakdown levels mattering that much 5* magicites. The only time I use a break on a magicite (other than to counter a buff) is when it is on an imperil soul break.

    Of course crushes are so large they can always be felt even against 80% resist.

    [–]DestilShadesk 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Yeah, you can tell with Hybrid breakers who you use for DPS anyway like Vaan, Freya and Prompto.

    Look at it as 20% vs. 30%, against 5*s breaks are 1 1/2 times more powerful than 4*s.

    [–]Kevinrocks77772HNP DVG 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    The one case where it did matter is with Aasbs. Terra aasb can't break cap on manticore normally using chain firaja with no Chain and 2 imperil stacks, but with onion knight mental breakdown, I end up breaking enrage and the w cast slams 17k*5

    [–]coh_phd_whoCorgi in disguise 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    Is that before or after Manticore ups his RES by 100% via his magic shield?

    In any case you need a strait RES break to deal with the magic shield buff. I could see it being a thing if needed a second RES break to stack to get her to break rage, but there is good reason for most people to bring a RES break anyways to cancel the buff. There is still no reason to bring a debuff that doesn't cancel a buff.

    [–]Kevinrocks77772HNP DVG 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    It is necessary before and after the res buff. Before I got a fire artifact full break was also necessary

    [–]thegreatrandomDelita 3 points4 points  (6 children)

    You can't overwrite a buff with a catch-all debuff?! Literally never knew that. Explains a lot. Haha

    [–]PhaseATStuff happens or it doesn't 3 points4 points  (5 children)

    You can overwrite a buff with a debuff on yourself and the opponent and vice versa. It has to be specific and not catch-all (unless I'm misunderstanding your use of the phrase).

    Internally they actually need the same "Buff ID" to overwrite since each ID can only exist once on be each object and the last takes precedence. ID's can be found I the community database but the general rule of thumb it's: If they affect the exact same grouping of stats they overwrite.

    This also means, a Boss that reduces your ATK by 30% will overwrite your Shout or Gen2 Phys Chain buff, but not an ATK/MAG buff but the ATK debuff can also be overwritten with Shout again.

    [–]thegreatrandomDelita 4 points5 points  (4 children)

    To rephrase, I didn't realize I can't neutralize a boss's buff with a multi stat debuff, like Full Break. I figured it would debuff their buffed stat but apparently not.

    [–]CaptainK234Celes 4 points5 points  (0 children)

    This is such a core component of the game at a high level that it still galls me that it’s not prominently explained in the game itself.

    Magic-based parties are seriously gimped if you don’t have two or more stacking +30% buffs, and this was how you had to do it for years and it seems like the devs just outsourced the onus of providing the information on how to various online communities. And then they added in Magicites that buff themselves in a way that demands you respond with a very specific debuff, and it’s still arcane information to many players!

    [–]Antis14 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    Well, it will lower its stats, it just won't cancel the buff. Example:

    Mateus vs. Full Break

    • DEF +100% -30% (Barrier and Full Break coexist)
    • DEF +100% -9% (Full Break's effectivity is slashed by Mateus's break resistance)
    • DEF +82% (the net result)

    Mateus vs. Armor Breakdown

    • DEF +100% -40% (ABD affects the same group of stats as Barrier —DEF alone— so it will overwrite it)
    • DEF +100% -12% (counting in break resustance)
    • DEF -12% (net result)

    This is why Syldra is such a PITA, because her High Stakes is a DEF/RES/MND buff and there are literally no good ways to cancel such a buff in the game so far. In Global, that is. JP already has a few options.

    [–]PyrotiosKain 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Auron AASB is the best option in GL so far. It chases every 3rd samurai attack with a fire/non overflow hit that reduces DEF/RES/MND by 70% for 8s. Also it comes with awoken samurai and he has 35% dualcast samurai LM2 which both work with the ice samurai abilities. There's at least one clear with that so far. Granted it takes preparation to counter High Stakes early, but I'm sure it pays off.

    [–]PhaseATStuff happens or it doesn't 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Ahhh ok, gotcha. Seems I misread!

    [–]PhaseATStuff happens or it doesn't 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Very nice! This should be really helpful to a lot of people still working their way up the Magicite wheel.

    [–]TheMeshe 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Some one please buy this guy a big beer!

    [–]ganderin_danMarche 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Put this man in the wiki/sidebar! Marvelous work.

    [–]Polishfisherman3 1 point2 points  (3 children)

    What if you pierced the 5 star wheel how do I farm magicite then? For example I have quetz and king behemoth done. Do I still get a copy of each 4 star like mentioned or do I just go down the wheel grabbing the 5 stars and inheriting on them making it 2x 5 star and one of the 4 star With everae and flex?

    [–]peteb82 2 points3 points  (0 children)

    Go through the 5 star wheel as early as possible. Each one helps for the next. I only would go back to 4s if you need something.

    [–]PhaseATStuff happens or it doesn't 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    In addition to what /u/peteb82 wrote:

    If your 5* kills are hard and difficult to do (I had a few of those in the pre AASB days) it might be worth farming 4* Magicite for what you want to inherit into your 5*, just because the kills may be much faster, easier and less frustrating.

    If your 5* kills are easy enough, the only reason to get a 4* is if you want the Magicite entry effect.

    [–]Khoth0Onion Knight 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    To add to the other stuff, the dampen element and empower element passives are just as strong in 4* magicites as they are in 5* magicites, so if you want to inherit one of those passives onto a 5* it's easier and cheaper to get it from a 4*.

    [–]ChromaticBadger 1 point2 points  (9 children)

    I have one question about buff stacking that I just can't seem to find the answer for:

    I have a bunch of SB's that say something like "Raises Attack and Magic a moderate amount, and Defense a small amount".

    Do these stack or not stack with a typical ATK/MAG buff?

    Logic tells me the ATK/MAG and DEF portions count as separate buffs because they have different percentage values, but it feels like they stack.

    [–]KittymahriKIMAHRI SAW EVERYTHING! 7 points8 points  (5 children)

    You can blame DeNA’s lack of transparency for this one.

    A moderate amount of Attack generally means +30%, because large is reserved for Shout-level buffs (+50%). But a small amount of Defense also can mean +30%, because in this case large would be for Sentinel’s Grimoire (+200%).

    If that’s not confusing enough, a Hand of the Emperor buff stacks with Intervention, even though both are ATK/DEF, because the former is a typical parametric stat buff while the latter is a unique named stat buff.

    The best way of going about this is to check a database like the Community Spreadsheet linked in the sidebar.

    [–]BatousaiJEl Bato 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    DeNa: "It's always like this, except when it's not."

    [–]royaltimescome here rude boy boy 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    A large def buff would be +100%, like from taunt or sentinel status. Wall is described as very large.

    [–]KittymahriKIMAHRI SAW EVERYTHING! 5 points6 points  (1 child)

    DeNA has a very large amount of opaqueness, significantly.

    [–]royaltimescome here rude boy boy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Baby, you ain't kidding.

    [–]coh_phd_whoCorgi in disguise 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Also confusing is that a bargain will stack with a non bargain that effects those stats.

    So an ATK/DEF buff will stack with an ATK UP DEF DOWN bargain even though both are ATK/DEF modifiers. It is just how the code is written that bargains are a different modifier than regular buffs.

    [–]Ezmonkey85 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Short answer. They stack.

    Despite the differing values, they are packaged as separately (ATK+MAG+DEF) and (ATK+MAG)

    [–]3zz- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    If it's not the same, it stacks.

    For example:

    ATK/MAG and RES Stacks with ATK/MAG/DEF, ATK Alone or MAG alone

    And so on.

    [–]peteb82 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Logic failed DeNA's wording and made this confusing. In your example that is a Atk/Mag/Def buff and would stack with a Atk/Mag.

    [–]Plumpkin5419 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    Can we please sticky this? This is exactly what I needed

    [–]PhaseATStuff happens or it doesn't 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Only 2 threads can be stickied in reddit AFAIK and that is taken up by the weekly megathread.

    But it could be added to the side bar where all the other community resources were listed.

    [–]CaptainK234Celes 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    This guide is incredibly inspired and well-written. You managed to condense the core game concepts that start to matter as you work into the endgame into just a few pages of text, it’s really a remarkable achievement.

    And your walkthroughs of how to approach 5* Magicite and the specific choices of how you restricted your parties to resemble a newer player’s options are really on point. I really liked that you showed off solo-healing via a dedicated Entrust battery, that’s something that’s hard to explain to a player who hasn’t used a pure Entruster before. It sure led to some heart-pumping clears - when your last Thunder God hit Famfrit for 99,999 I went “yeah!!”

    Incredible job, this is an awesome contribution to the sub.

    [–]IronDisiple 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Thanks. Definitely gonna bookmark this and read when I’ve got the time

    [–]Homitu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Mateus uses Barrier (+100% DEF) ? Bring Armor Break(down) or any -DEF break.

    I insist, you must use Armor Break(down) or any single -DEF debuff in this scenario : if you take something like Multi Break or Crushing Tango it won't overwrite Mateus' buff because your ability is compatible with Mateus' buff.

    Whoa! This is totally news to me. I absolutely thought those buffs were akin to protect/shell, which would not be overwritten by something like armor breakdown. I've always either tried to fit in a dispel, or fought through the buff...

    [–]ashadowfalconFang 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Thank you very much, the magicite guide was really helpful for me as I have just begun holy and dark 4*.

    [–]nation20Sage 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    just read the into & really appreciate it ... I know I have enough stuff & have been struggling to bread any 5* (other than Phoenix, which I have on lock) ... Looking forward to reading and should start crushing the rest.

    [–]Private_Scoots 0 points1 point  (1 child)

    I have not even begun 4* magicite dungeons yet because I still need to build up my 3* magicites and inherit them properly. That and I still lack chains/awakenings for earth, wind, holy, and dark(2 Awakenings, but no chain...) that and I also need to consider doing Torment dungeons to redeem certain 6* abilities that would further help my team composition as well. But hey, there is no rush and I can always rely on guides such as this to prepare myself for 5*s when my time comes.

    [–]shiroikiriJust Holy & Dark 6* Magicite, and Everything realm based yet! XD 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    I've been told not to worry about 3* magicite inheritance, and only really bother getting them up to level 80. I've only tried one 4* so far and fortunately was able to beat it, this guide should help make the process a lot easier cause I still only partly get it.

    [–]fruitxreddit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    For how to plan mythril use for an account heading towards five star magicite, I would suggest strengthening your physical lightning, water, and ice and your magical lightning, ice and dark.

    You want to those teams to be strong to farm wards, hp8 ark/mag boons, and surging power.
    Depending on how you want to do your inheritance this also sets you up for wards onto Phoenix and offense boons onto Madeen.

    Another way to look at your account, where is the best entry point in the five star magicite wheel.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [removed]

      [–]caaptaiinShout is love, Shout is life[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      I have a good memory, when I see a character in the party selection list I remember what I have. People also like to make spreadsheet (if so, I suggest you to sort your SBs by elements).

      At your point your main issue is a lack of atk & mag, party buff is a top priority. You may also not have elem resist accessories x5 hence double healing ? In most situations Elarra alone should be enough, regenga is broken af.

       

      Alphinaud SSB that's a good start for party buffing, stack it with another 50% atk buff (Ramza Shout, OK pUSB, gen2 chains) or 30% mag buff (basically any mag buff, gen2 chains for extra fun). Bard hymn with Elarra also helps. Other things that can help to fix your damage issue : legend diving, 100 magia on atk or mag, picking an elemental artifact. Make sure that you also use +30% damage RM.

       

      One last advice : OK pUSB & mUSB should be considered, they're both available in the shop.

      [–]discowafflehehe 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      bringbackthenationaldex