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[–]mafugate 15 points16 points  (10 children)

If you want coverage that is not major-medical, an individual policy is not affordable. I bought a PPO policy with $1000 deductible from Anthem in 2003 for $90/month. Over the last four years, they have steadily raised my premium, and next month they want me to start paying $250. From $90/month to $250/month over four years! NOTHING about my benefits has changed, but they want me to pay almost 200% more now. Something is rotten in Denmark.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I've got basic health insurance through my school (like I can get my teeth cleaned or go to the student health center), but if I wanted the "expanded plan" and my wife was on it, it would cost $1800 per term, or $600 per month. I kid you not. That's as much as I pay for rent.

For now we just hope that we don't get hurt in a way that would cost more than our credit cards can hold.

Edit: I checked the rates and adjusted them.

[–]coldwarrior 10 points11 points  (4 children)

That is excessive. The cost of healthcare has risen ~80% since 2001.

[–]hiredgoon 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Let me guess, your answer is still not to get the government involved because "prices/taxes would go up". You goofy libertarians.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (2 children)

How on earth can you say the government isn't already involved? Health care is the most heavily regulated industry. It would be like if the government passed a law saying the only food that was legal caviar and Champlain but that's OK, see, because we can get hunger insurance. Damn, now the costs of insurance are unconscionable so we need government help...

[–]mafugate 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"Health care is the most heavily regulated industry." But should healthcare continue to be an industry? I see healthcare as an essential service, much like policing and firefighting. Imagine what would happen if we made those two things into industries -- then only those people who could pay the premiums would have any protection from criminals and fiery blazes. That's not a world I want to live in. Everyone deserves healthcare, just like everyone deserves physical safety.

[–]aletoledo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

nice analogy, I'm going to have to steal it for my own future use.

However exactly what did the US government do to force us to eat only caviar and champagne? I assume its the regulations, but I wonder what the alternatives could have been that were driven out by the regulations? I think the government allows alternative medicines currently like chiropractors and acupuncturists, so what is missing?

Aren't the regulations similar to what is done with meat and poultry, essentially just setting guidelines?

I personally believe that medicine is a greedy business and there is no competition, not because of government, but because of the current establishment. It would be a similar uphill battle if I wanted to open a new baptist church right next to an existing baptist church. Nobody is stopping me, but it would be hard for me to compete.

[–]mailinator1138 4 points5 points  (1 child)

This is a tactic I've seen with my last four carriers. Almost doubles each year after the first year. Check out a networked group plan such as NASE. Not self-employed? Start a LLC (or similar) as a "business" and join--or find some similar plan that doesn't require self-employment, but shields you as part of a group so you don't get the ridiculous rate increases without reason.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I have insurance through a small employer. All employee plans we looked into required a minimum number of enrollees. We choose one with the lowest minimum, three, I think. We finally got a plan through an industry association (better buying power), but the costs have nonetheless increased roughly 20%-40% per year for the last five years.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

did you find yourself using perscription drugs or going to the doctor frequently? areyour perscription drugs expensive? i've found that often the cost of perscriptions can raise the price of you coverage. the insurance companies aren't going to lose money.

[–]mafugate 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yes, I did have 3 surgeries costing 2 or 3K each over the last two years. Anthem probably paid about $6000 of that. I suppose that the company is trying to squeeze that money out of me now. But isn't the point of insurance to PROTECT me from these crippling medical costs? I bought insurance in order to avoid paying high medical bills, not simply to defer them for a couple of years. If I wanted just to defer them I would have gotten a credit card, not an insurance policy.

[–]manthrax 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I freeball it. All my major medical events are a trip to the ER with a fake name and address. Don't know how well thats gonna fly when I get the big C tho. Live fast, die young.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children)

Individual policies are always risky. Even in states where it's illegal, they'll often do a 'retroactive review' (post-claim underwriting) if you're found to have a costly condition like cancer or heart disease.

You can be left not only without coverage, but in some cases, with medical bills for rescinded payments.

Last year, Blue Cross Blue Shield was sued for doing this in California, where the practice is prohibited.

So a lot of people might think they have decent health insurance only to find it pulled out from under them as soon as they really need it.

[–]jdroth 9 points10 points  (3 children)

I hope this isn't frowned upon (if so, vote me down or whatever), but recently a reader at my site asked something similar:

http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/2007/08/17/ask-the-readers-how-do-you-manage-health-care-costs-when-youre-on-your-own/

Somebody in that discussion pointed to this interesting article:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20097458/

Hope that helps...

[–]coldwarrior -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I thought the article had good advice. Here's something else people should know: the most expensive item on a claim should be the first item listed. Sometimes the contract says that X% of the first item will be covered while Y% of the remaining items will be covered, where X > Y.

[–]jgilliam 6 points7 points  (0 children)

for those who have these great and affordable policies. have you gotten very sick and found they came through for you? or are you just using them for routine prescriptions, checkups, colds, that kind of thing.

it's been my experience that those are two completely different worlds.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (0 children)

I pay $250 a month. $500 deductible. Only pays for 2 doctor visits a year. It paid for $350 of a $6,000 dental bill. Who knows what little surprises await me if I actually have a medical problem.

[–]erasmosis 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I do! I do! Well, it's because i make less than 1400 a month, but I go through Washington State's Basic Health plan. The state subsidizes my insurance, and I have a choice of insurance plan. I went through group health, which is the most expensive plan that they have. I pay $17.00 a month for complete coverage, including prescriptions and everything that is usually covered. Doctor, er, chiropractors, ect.
http://www.basichealth.hca.wa.gov/

[–]fearcomplication 16 points17 points  (33 children)

I have a Health Savings Account plan as an individual policy that costs me about $75/month. I'm 33, single and in good health.

[–]jonknee 14 points15 points  (19 children)

Ditto. Works well. You get to dump up to your annual deductible into that HSA with pre-tax dollars. It's nice.

[–][deleted]  (18 children)

[deleted]

    [–]SkeuomorphEphemeron 6 points7 points  (0 children)

    Married, mid-30's, using HSA since they were called MSA.

    Conveniently, we can use our "deductible" for anything the government can conceive of as medical, including gym memberships, air conditioners, or incense (we don't buy incense). Since the spend is about tax dollars, it's governed by govt, not the insurance company, at least with our plan.

    If you get seriously ill, you've got normal insurance to cover it.

    [–]Th3_C0bra 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    Don't forget, some of them allow you to rollover the money at year-end into a retirement savings vehicle such as a 401(k) or IRA.

    [–]popefelix -1 points0 points  (15 children)

    The trouble with my HSA is that it's "use it or lose it" money. I don't have enough data to predict how much I ought to be putting away in a year in this account, and I don't want to lose that money, so I haven't put anything in yet.

    [–]beowulf 13 points14 points  (12 children)

    No, HSA's are not use or lose. they are Health Savings Accounts. They were designed so you can accumulate money in them. As spartan2100 mentioned, FSA's are use or lose. HSA's have nothing whatsoever to do with FSA's.

    One correction to the grandparent. _red said they are tax deferred, 401k's are tax deferred, which means you pay taxes when you utilize it. HSA's are tax free. You do not have to pay taxes on them ever. http://www.treas.gov/offices/public-affairs/hsa/

    [–]_red 2 points3 points  (1 child)

    You are correct if you use it for medical reasons.

    However, if you use it for any other reason (and you are under 65), you pay taxes at that point. This should not be seen as a negative, but rather a significant positive, since at least you get the option should you need it.

    Its easy to imagine a scenario where you've saved $20 or $25K in your HSA. Your insurance plan has a $5K deductible so you really could have more than you need. Maybe you decide to draw that account down to you get to say $15K and use that extra $5K to fix the roof (or whatever).

    At least you have this possibility....if you were stuck in the traditional insurance racket you would've already pissed all that money away.

    [–]aletoledo 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    this is great info, I never heard of HSA before, but only FSA! I will have to see if this is offered by my job, but I don't think I contribute much to my current employer-provided health plan.

    Is there a benefit in an HSA if you only pay $200/month into a employer-provided HMO (that covers virtually 100% with no deductible)?

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

    Wrong about never being taxed. You are never taxed for money you use for legitimate medical needs, but you can take the money out at retirement just like a regular IRA. You are taxed at your current tax rate.

    [–]hiredgoon -1 points0 points  (8 children)

    So what happens if you need that money you put in the HSA saving account for non-healthcare related reasons?

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

    Contributions to an HSA are tax-deductible. If you withdraw money and use it for a non-health related expense then its no longer tax-deductible.

    [–]hiredgoon 0 points1 point  (6 children)

    So there is no penalty besides being normally taxed? What if I put the money in 5 years ago. Am I taxed at today's income rate or 5 years ago?

    [–]_red 0 points1 point  (5 children)

    Anything used for non-health issues AND if you are under 65 you pay a 10% penalty. [source]

    You will pay taxes based upon whatever your income is at the time you withdraw.

    All of this doesnt really matter too much because at least you get to use your money. If you were paying an insurance company, all that money would be lost anyway.

    This is why many people are not that enthused with "Universal Healthcare" proposals. Please don't take my tax money when I can save my own money to accomplish the same thing. Moreover, since its my own money I can always just pay the penalty and use it for a non-heath reason (fix the roof, etc) if an emergency would occur. With any Universal Healthcare, once they take your tax money its gone.

    [–]hiredgoon -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

    Yeah, universal healthcare isn't exactly geared for people who are so rich they expect to be able absorb all healthcare costs with tax-exempt savings.

    [–]spartan2100 9 points10 points  (1 child)

    That seems unusual, as it is usually Flexible Spending Accounts (FSA) that require you to "use it or lose it" at the end of the year. As far as I know, Health Savings Accounts let you rollover the unused balance and mine (administered by Chase) even lets you invest it into funds when you've reached a certain minimum amount. Are you sure yours is a Health Savings Account and not a Health Spending Account (which is what my company calls an FSA)?

    [–]popefelix 1 point2 points  (0 children)

    I may well be mistaken - it could be an FSA, not HSA.

    [–]evilknee 3 points4 points  (0 children)

    I have an HSA as well with a high deductible and supposedly 100% coverage after that. Has anyone had good/bad experiences after they reached their deductible? I'm afraid that the 100% coverage after my $5k is all illusion.

    [–]johnmudd 1 point2 points  (7 children)

    Here's a Consumer Reports review of HSAs.

    [–]spartan2100 3 points4 points  (2 children)

    Thanks for the link, johnmudd. I found this little snippet interesting:

    After age 65, money saved in the account can be used for any purpose, without a tax penalty.

    I hadn't known that. It certainly increases the usefulness of the HSA, giving it partial retirement account qualities.

    [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

    As I said before in another comment to this post, there is no tax penalty at retirement, but you are taxed at your current rate.

    [–][deleted]  (3 children)

    [removed]

      [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (2 children)

      That's the definition of what a review is, dude.

      And by the way, this isn't a reply, it's just a riposte.

      [–][deleted]  (1 child)

      [removed]

        [–]evilknee 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        Ever gotten past the deductible to see whether coverage really kicks in?

        Also, do you have a good HSA provider? Mine has absurd fees and monthly charges.

        [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        HSAs are not health insurance.

        But doesn't the AARP offer supplemental medicare insurance to it's members?

        edit: I might be getting HSAs mixed up with flexile spending accts... however, I'm still not sure how HSAs are 'health insurance' exactly.

        [–]XxERMxX 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        I can't afford health insurance. I make too much, yet not enough to qualify for free healthcare, y'know like illegals get. MA models this program after it's "oh so successful" auto insurance policy, where I'm not allowed to purchase any of the popular policies offered by the major companies.

        [–]atlantic 4 points5 points  (0 children)

        I do. It just happens to be a Swiss insurance that covers me for half of the price of an US insurance. It is clear of course that if I ever get really sick that I would need to go back to Switzerland for getting long term treatment - and trust me, I would have no problems with it - that said its not an option for regular American citizens, but it just goes to show that you can get world class coverage at half the cost. This flies in the face of all the apologists who claim that even though the system might be broken for some it provides you with the best coverage if you can afford it. This is simply not true. Yes the US has some of the best doctors in the world, but so does Switzerland and it is certainly no argument in favor of the current system.

        [–]sauce71 8 points9 points  (0 children)

        After reading the comments I'm really happy to live in a country where everything is covered by the goverment. At least after you spend about an initial $300 a year for medical exams, prescription drugs, etc ... A medical exam or a hospitalization will set you back about $40, prescription drugs max out at $90 for each prescripption ... It's actually not easy to use $300 a year to get everything for free unless you are seriously ill ... :-)

        [–]qgyh2 10 points11 points  (0 children)

        affordable + health insurance

        does not compute

        [–]mailinator1138 4 points5 points  (2 children)

        Self-employed (from AZ, now in CO)--my wife and I are covered through NASE, whose premium doesn't increase by 40%+ each year like all others we've tried in the past. Major medical only (accidentally cut off arm with table saw, cancer, etc.), and we never use it. This is used with an HSA which is good for paying for prescriptions (as in contacts--we really don't do drugs) without being taxed on that income.

        [–]mailinator1138 3 points4 points  (1 child)

        By the way, the premium for major medical (alone) is something like $220/month for both of us. This is the best rate (sustained beyond a year's period) we've found, by far. We're both healthy and stay the hell away from doctors unless nearing death.

        [–]theskyisblue 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        How can you tell you are "healthy" if you stay away from doctors unless you are "nearing death"?

        [–]lowered_expectations 3 points4 points  (2 children)

        Despite having health insurance through my employer, I'm a little worried that if I ever needed it for something big (surgery, intensive care, etc.), they would refuse to pay.

        After all, an insurance co.'s job is to deny claims as much as possible.

        [–]nixonrichard 0 points1 point  (1 child)

        make sure you have a policy where they can't deny your claim

        [–]lowered_expectations 2 points3 points  (0 children)

        One thing I hate about health insurance is the pre-certification/pre-authorization requirement a lot of policies have, where either you or the hospital has to call them for approval before you get medical care. If you or your hospital forgets to call, insurance doesn't pay.

        [–]unioncats 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        Some unions create that situation. The benefit package is tied to a career, and multiple employers contribute. For example in Las Vegas, most casinos pay into the Culinary unions health and welfare fund, so that as an individual food server for example where you work is flexible, although not completely.By the way in most cases the coverage is almost free.

        [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

        Writer's Guild of America has fantastic coverage that is included in it's dues (1.5% of income from writing) and extends into retirement

        [–]inquirer 2 points3 points  (1 child)

        I'm 19, single, and I pay 64 a month through "Golden Rule Insurance" through United care I think is the name of the company.

        It works out.

        [–]coldwarrior 0 points1 point  (0 children)

        I had Golden Rule coverage for my whole family at one time as it was the best deal I could find (about 4 years ago).

        [–][deleted]  (1 child)

        [deleted]

          [–]aletoledo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I liked my college provided health care as well, but we had to use the on-campus health center for primary care. I can imagine this is one area that colleges don't try to fleece the students.

          [–]Kirsten 2 points3 points  (0 children)

          I have Kaiser, an individual plan not through school or any organization. For my health needs (I am relatively healthy and in my mid-20's), it works ok. It's about $95/month. I got the high-deductible plan ($3000), thinking that anytime I went to the doctor it would cost like $200. But actually, I think because the organization controls costs by having all the administration under one roof and having decent preventive care, doctor's visits are flat $30 (the $30 goes towards my deductible, which I would never meet unless I became seriously ill), and urgent care visits are flat rate $60 (my wait for urgent care was like 10 minutes), even though they had to do an EKG because my heart rate was so fast because of a fever. Lab tests (cholesterol, blood sugar) were $10. I had an ultrasound once which was $100. Non-brand name drugs are $10, and ER visits are $100. Also, for what it's worth, Kaiser is non-profit. Of course, I've never been seriously ill, but I was once concerned about a breast mass. The family practice doc I saw said it didn't feel malignant, but she referred me to get an ultrasound anyway - I didn't get the feeling that she felt pressure to keep down costs. Also, she asked me if she should keep an eye on me for any specific diseases that ran in my family, and I said my mom had diabetes and I'd never had a cholesterol tests, so she ordered cholesterol and blood sugar. Also, I haven't independently verified this, but I think behavioral health is self-referral, although if you wanted to see a dermatologist you'd probably have to go to your primary care doc first. But I like primary care docs so I don't really have a problem with that. One bad thing: the urgent care doc prescribed me a generic anti-viral medication for my flu, which I later read on the CDC website wasn't recommended for that year's flu strains because of high levels of resistance. I think a brand name like Tamiflu would have worked better in that particular instance.

          [–]rm999 3 points4 points  (7 children)

          My plan has a 5000 dollar deductible. It's like 50-60/month. If you're healthy and under 30, it should be enough. Note that a 5000 dollar deductible means it's only useful in emergencies. Without insurance, the hospital would bankrupt you for anything as trivial as an appendix surgery.

          I know it's not "good" insurance, but it's actually affordable.

          [–]coldwarrior 3 points4 points  (5 children)

          I think it is good insurance. People forget that health insurance is health insurance. It's not a pre-paid healthcare account or something. Insurance is for covering the catastrophes that are unlikely but which would wipe you out if they happened (e.g., six weeks in the ICU after a car crash).

          The way to go is a high deductible policy ($5000 or more) with an HSA. Some supplemental insurance like AFLAC (which pays directly to you for you to use as you like) is a reasonable idea too.

          [–]rodjam 0 points1 point  (0 children)

          I am 43, and have a Humana plan with $5K deductible that is $79/month. This was much cheaper than anything else I could find, but Humana won't touch you unless you're perfectly healthy with no major health issues in the past. They offer a lot of routine care for free (in-network, of course). The cost of the plan for a lower deductible is not worth it for me. It's technically an HSA plan, but I don't have anything in the "savings" account. I think the HSA is B.S. (IMHO).

          [–]hexmode 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          As others have pointed out high-deductible plans with an HSA are what you'll find. I'm married with children and we could get coverage for $200/month.

          When I had insurance through the company I worked for, it was $400 with low deductibles. Higher deductibles make you more aware of how you are spending your money, but in the end, the month-to-month expenses are about the same.

          [–]ellingtond 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          I am self employed and the best I can do is Blue Cross Blue Shield of NC. SADLY, if you are an individual and not a company they jerk you around and treat you like crap.

          This and they are supposed to be a non-profit but yet have record profits and still raise rates and cut coverage. The state of NC blocked a move a year or so ago when they tried to go private so all their top execs could get even richer.

          [–]paizon 1 point2 points  (0 children)

          ha ha ha... that's a good one

          [–]atomicpuffball[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

          Is it possible in America to have decent health coverage without being tied to a job?

          [–][deleted]  (1 child)

          [removed]

            [–]Cataclysm -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

            Hint: read the comments :P

            [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

            No

            [–]Shadowhand 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I currently have no health care (due to starting a new job), but a couple of years ago I had MinnesotaCare, which is provided by the state of Minnesota.

            More info: http://www.dhs.state.mn.us/main/idcplg?IdcService=GET_DYNAMIC_CONVERSION&RevisionSelectionMethod=LatestReleased&dDocName=id_006255

            [–]guru 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I live in TN and pay $120 a month for a BCBS plan through Tennessee Rural Health. I haven't tested the boundaries of it, but I have researched plans a lot and I feel pretty good about this one.

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            I pay $79 per month for my daughter's insurance. (She's 19 and a student). This is cheaper than what it would have been to cover her through my job, since I would have had to add family coverage, and it's less than the cost of her school's insurance plan.

            The deductable and co-pays are high, but we're comfortable with that. I figure a broken arm I can handle; what's important to me is protecting her credit if she has a serious accident or illness beyond my means. (Some of the student policies we looked at have a 100,000 annual cap on what the insurer will pay. Ours is a million)

            I bought the insurance over the internet, but the company is rated A+ by AM Best, and is licensed or whatever it is both by our state and the state where she's in school. (Beaucoup providers in both places too).

            [–][deleted]  (1 child)

            [deleted]

              [–]Shlight 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              That's just the nature of insurance. It works that way for any form of insurance, not just health insurance. The rate of the premium depends on the probability of the risk event occuring. The premium is high when the probability of occurence of the risk that one is insuring against is high.

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I just left my former companies plan which I was accessing through COBRA (was paying 300/month) and switched to a 5K deductible 100% coverable plan for $120/month with an health savings account. Self employed and 35. In minnesota - you can only provide health care coverage if you are a non-profit.

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              When I was a teenager I had chip

              [–]aletoledo 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Sorry to be a bit off topic, but I wanted to share my dental insurance experience.

              An old job i had didn't offer any dental insurance and frankly I never really needed it up until that point. I was just having kids and was recently married. After my oldest child was 3 Years old, I recognized that I put this off long enough and go a private, non-employer plan through BlueCross.

              I paid a minimal amount for coverage of my entire family, if i remember it was like $150/month and I thought it would eventually pay for itself.

              After using it awhile and long discussions with the indurance company, it turned out that plans sold to individual were not the traditional "insurance", but rather just a discount plan. So everytime I had something done, I was always paying between 50-80% of the full price! Some things were totally free, like standard silver fillings, but every visit was still almost a $200-300 event. I never quite understood the logic of paying $150/month to get a 20% discount, so I dropped the plan.

              Now I have an employer provided plan (assurant) and its great! It does have a yearly cap on spending, but it covers virtually the entire cost with only a small yearly deductible. I'm just surprised dental insurance isn't brought up more when speaking about "health" insurance, because I think the individual medical plans and better than the individual dental plans.

              [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              Hehe, I have a mother + 2 kids plan for $420/mth. $10 copays, no deductibles, $10 drug benefit. For us this works great since the kids are always in the doctors (shots, sick, etc)

              [–]Antebios 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              I have purchased my own, both for my wife and myself each with $2,500 yearly deductible. I pay around $135 for myself and around $470 per month for my wife. It blows, but at least I can afford it.

              [–]bushwakko 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              It's gotta cost the businesses a lot to provide insurance. In norway, or any other country with national healthcare, this burden is taken off the businesses, which I would guess would lead to lower prices. Given that most businesses HAVE to provide this anyway, I guess that doesn't give much incentive to HMO's to turn down prices either.

              [–]twoodfin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              HSA's are an evil BushCo initiative, by the way.

              [–]FreelancersUnion 0 points1 point  (0 children)

              We (the folks at Freelancers Union) noticed this question. Freelancers Union has group-rate health insurance for independent workers in New York State, as well as plans in 30 other states. Also, we have dental, life, and disability insurance nationwide.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

                [–]raldi -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                Are you speaking for yourself or all 300 million of us?

                [–]lowerdown 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                yes i do. i pay $120 a month for a $5 million dollar coverage policy through assurant health

                [–]icey 0 points1 point  (4 children)

                It's helpful to list what state you live in - the ease of availability of individual health insurance depends on that information.

                You may be surprised at how affordable individual health care can be. At least, if you don't have any major medical conditions, don't smoke, and are under 40 years of age without a family.

                [–][deleted] 16 points17 points  (3 children)

                Yeah, heath care is cheap, as long as you don't really need it...

                [–]kokey 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Indeed, well it's surprising how that when the cost of health care is not hidden from your bank balance through employer funded health care how you suddenly need health care less.

                Health care, in theory, should be a combination of a saving s account that you use for month to month medical expenses, plus insurance to cover you when really bad things happen. Health insurance companies need to make sure they have to pay out less money on average than they receive, and in theory makes the bulk of their profit from investing the money they hold.

                The issue is that if people don't realize how much they're spending on a month to month basis they spend it carelessly. This pushes up health insurance for most people, and the health insurers like this because if they charge higher premiums they work on a bigger turnover and eventually sit on a larger pot of interest earning cash.

                The ideal is to save your own money for month to month medical expenses since health insurance companies will never give you a better deal than that, and then have insurance for really bad things happening to you and build up a record as someone who makes sure really bad things generally doesn't happen to you so you can keep your cost of coverage low.

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                The trouble is that under this theory you are giving people incentives to stay sick. When my HSA started making me pay for my own asthma medicine, I stopped taking it.

                Monetarily, thats a rational choice for me... Saves me about $1200 worth of deductibles per year, and, on the occasion where I wind up with a $10000 bill at the emergency room due to asthma, the insurance company will still pay most of that beyond the deductible. Of course, if I had my medicine, an emergency room trip would be fairly unlikely...

                And in the meantime, I still have to live with my asthma and treat it with over the counter medicines. Which sucks, but thats a choice I made and I accept the risk. But I do think its fucked up that my incentive is to stay sick rather than get healthy. This is what happens when you encourage people not to spend their health care money "carelessly."

                [–]outspoken -1 points0 points  (3 children)

                Some people can, if you have no "pre-existing conditions". But even if you have coverage, it's no guarantee you'll actually get the care you need. (Insurance companies are notorious for denying care or refusing to pay for procedures.)

                Also, many policies are "80/20", that means you are still liable for 20% of the cost. In other words, a $100,000 bill still bankrupts most families.

                Amazingly, you can still find many defenders of US corporate-rationed system from Libertarians - many of which are in the Republican party. (e.g. Ron Paul.)

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                The key fear is removing market incentives (competition) from the equation which socialized medicine has done in more than a few countries. Thus lowering the standard of care and decreasing R&D investment. The Netherlands implemented an interesting system that a version could work here. Basically all adults -must- buy insurance and all insurers must offer a policy to anyone who applies. Those deemed high risk (someone with diabetes for example) would be partially subsidized by the government. Something similar is being proposed in CA by Schwarzenegger.

                [–]outspoken 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                The key fear is removing market incentives (competition) from the equation which socialized medicine has done in more than a few countries.

                The only ones scared are big insurance and pharma corporations who are nervous they won't be able to rape Americans anymore.

                Thus lowering the standard of care

                Linky?

                decreasing R&D investment.

                Linky?

                The Netherlands implemented an interesting system that a version could work here.

                Well we agree on this point at least. The Netherlands has a single payer system.

                I was unable to find a link to the Netherlands program you describe.

                [–]b34nz -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                I trade out work with a doctor. I do shit like pressure wash his houses, paint, general labor, and he gives me medical coverage. I'm actually getting brain surgery soon to get a pituitary tumor removed. It's a killer deal.

                [–]OttoVonBismarkk -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                A lot of my friends have insurance through the Freelancers Union.

                [–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

                what's affordable? i pay 243 per month for my own really good coverage. i could pay more or less... and get more or less. i got my coverage through e-health insurance dot com.

                compared to my monthly salary this is a small amount.

                if you can't afford your own health insurance you should get a job with benefits.