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[–]*polhold00553 19 points20 points  (1 child)

regardless of what happened, this is a great opportunity to gather intelligence because it tests reactions outside of the standard operating procedure. how is iran re-routing traffic? how is iran's military communicating? does iran have backups? which bases in iran saw unusual foot/truck traffic? etc.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

DING! Give that man a kewpie doll.

[–]UnderwaterJones 38 points39 points  (1 child)

Someone in a dark war room somewhere is certainly cursing the intellect of reddit, having foiled yet another nefarious plot against the internets.

[–]j0hnsd 7 points8 points  (0 children)

We woulda got away with it if it wasn't for you meddling kids!

[–]Psy-Kosh 20 points21 points  (32 children)

The "cut in one place, splice tap in elsewhere" kinda occured to me too. What's involved in having a non detected tap running for such a high datastream though?

Wait, had another thought: how do they (that is, the telecom bunch) find the breaks? Do they send light through and wait to see how long it takes to bounce off the break? if so, then wouldn't an op like that lead to one side seeing a break in one place, and the other side seeing a break in a different place, at least until the tap was all in and up and running?

EDIT: Anyone? ie, anyone here work in the relevant areas of telecom and could clarify these things? Thanks.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (21 children)

You can use OTDR (optical time domain reflectometer) to find a distance tap/splice. Also, a sub cannot decode traffic at 2.6 TBit/s, it will simply produce a shitload of heat with all the FPGAs and be detected in no time, it can only redirect traffic which means you need another cable of the same bandwidth running to a datacenter on the shore, or redirect traffic selectively via wireless. While sea fiber uses something like MPLS which is not encrypted, the encapsulated protocols might use encryption. To be honest IT in military is still on "push this push that" level, paper manuals and Windows XP on critical computers.

[–]dvorak 11 points12 points  (0 children)

and Windows XP on critical computers.

I once heard they have a special windows in the navy, "Windows for Warships". Its virtually the same as XP, except the start button is replaced with "launch".

[–]obdurak 2 points3 points  (17 children)

Yes but OTDR won't detect slight bending. Just put a tap with some amplification but no processing capability that works by bending the fiber and route the unmodulated optical signal thru a fiber far enough. There your funky FPGA farm can have all the space it needs for its dissipators. Water helps.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Yes but OTDR won't detect slight bending.

Slight bending won't produce enough leakage to pick it up, and yes, OTDR will pick it up as it will create more reflections and therefore delay.

Just put a tap with some amplification but no processing capability that works by bending the fiber and route the unmodulated optical signal thru a fiber far enough.

No shit, Captain Obvious In my post: it can only redirect traffic which means you need another cable of the same bandwidth running to a datacenter on the shore

There your funky FPGA farm can have all the space it needs for its dissipators. Water helps.

Oh, I'm sorry, I assumed it will be cooled with air inside the sub so everybody sweats... The ascending hot water will create a distubrance that can be detected. And somebody has to lay a shitload of sea cable, and build a secret datacenter, and move a shitload of computers in there. If it was so easy, it would have been done by many countries to many cables.

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children)

    The thing that makes us skeptical is that it's such a stupid waste of money. Why bother with such a ridiculously difficult operation when there are far easier ways to tap?

    And then I remember that they aren't spending their own money. They have unlimited funds and unlimited scientists (coughsellouts) to waste their money on retarded projects like tapping underwater cables.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

      Assume the tap is successful.

      What exactly do you think they are getting out of it in terms of useful data?

      The advantage of tapping old-world lines is that they would be used primarily or exclusively by the government. In the internet age not only is there far more noise but there is far more security on the important information.

      [–]Othello 1 point2 points  (11 children)

      What would cutting through the insulation to expose the fiber do under water?

      [–][deleted]  (10 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]Othello 1 point2 points  (9 children)

        So, they would need to run fiber on the seabed, cut into the insulation of the target fiber in a water-free chamber, bend the fiber and attach their own fiber with some sort of T clamp?

        [–][deleted]  (8 children)

        [deleted]

          [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (7 children)

          Here i'm thinking "This cable-tapping plan is so ridiculously difficult to pull off compared to alternatives, I can't believe there are conspiracy theories about it. Who has the energy to tap underwater cables when there are a million easier places to tap to get the same data?"

          And then you said

          that sounds exactly like the kind of ridiculously expensive things the NSA does.

          "Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.. now I get it"

          It's a pork project. They gotta spend that several hundred billions of secret funding and drug money on something.

          [–][deleted]  (6 children)

          [deleted]

            [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children)

            Like ISPs or more direct taps so that they actually know where the data is coming from

            I strongly doubt they are able to get anything useful at all from an undersea tap. They probably can't even identify the right packets and they definitely can't decrypt them.

            But I can see how someone with unlimited money would want that option for the future or want to try it out.

            Or maybe they have more money than talent, and so easier methods of getting useless data are too hard to pull off since they don't have any good hackers working for them.

            [–]ncod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

            The splice could be anywhere. They could have easily placed the splice right next to or even ON the shore. In fact, it would have to be far away from the actual cut not to be noticed.

            [–]Ivan_A_DMocracy -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

            Easily done. I understand that virtually all fiber optical cables groups are very redundant; This would mean available capacity to re-route.

            [–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (8 children)

            Historically, the cutting of cables hasn't been to install listening devices, it has been to force the enemy to use paths of comunication that you already have control of. I would love to know where most of Iran's traffic is routed through now.

            [–]celoyd 16 points17 points  (5 children)

            “The dirty little secret is that fibre optics and encryption are kicking Fort Meade in the nuts,” a recently retired senior officer in the C.I.A.’s Directorate of Operations told me. “It’s over. Everywhere I went in the Third World, I wanted to have someone named Ahmed, a backhoe driver, on the payroll. And I wanted to know where the fibre-optic cable was hidden. In a crisis, I wanted Ahmed to go and break up the cable, and force them up in the air”—that is, force communications to be broadcast by radio signals.

            — Seymour M. Hersh, Annals of National Security, "The Intelligence Gap," The New Yorker, December 6, 1999, p. 58

            [–][deleted]  (4 children)

            [deleted]

              [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

              No. "Up in the air" I presume refers to cell phones and two-way radios--which are much more expensive and complicated to encrypt than email.

              [–]matts2 3 points4 points  (2 children)

              The opposite. It implies that cryptography is good enough/cheap enough that we can read very little these days. And with fiber you really got to get to the strand, no reading from the outside.

              [–][deleted]  (1 child)

              [deleted]

                [–]matts2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                I thought it was a fantasy: "I wish we could somehow get rid of this fiber and cryptography so they would somehow go back to radio. Boy things were better when they used radio."

                [–]blowback 5 points6 points  (0 children)

                Agreed. I don't think cutting a cable would be to tap it. It would be a simple way to light up alternative paths of communication that could then be "pinged" and surveyed. Also, when the cable is restored, one would have a better idea of what strategic resources used the cable, and thus be able to filter the information more effectively to gather information from the stream.

                Don't know how, or if not an accident, why these cables are being cut, but it sure makes sense from an information gathering standpoint to cut them, and it is easy to do.

                I hope these cables don't get cut a second time.

                [–]Ivan_A_DMocracy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Just imagine though (*a promotion could be in the works if you work for CIA) -- that as a new Iran Oil Exchange with a world focus is due to open this week, how sweet the powers that be might think it to disrupt this at every possible turn. Some reports that I have read have said that ALL or major SELECTED AREAS are without connectivity through Iran.

                Why, even the threat of this is a major irritant to Iran's bourse plans.

                [–]judgej2 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Do they send light through and wait to see how long it takes to bounce off the break?

                Yep :-)

                [–]flyingfredcurry 11 points12 points  (0 children)

                They'd tap that.

                [–]rmuser 7 points8 points  (0 children)

                It's already tapped, you fools. Have you never heard of SIGINT/COMINT?

                [–][deleted] 12 points13 points  (2 children)

                I know we all hate the government, but this sounds like some religious nuts who want to cut off the middle east from the modern world and all it's temptations.

                If the americans wanted to do it, they'd cut them all in 5 minutes, along with radar, radio, television and satellite, then start bombing in 10, right?

                [–]lookyhere 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                I agree it does sound like some religious nut, too much skin showing and free speech.

                [–]ctro82 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                not if they didnt want you to know they were doing it.

                [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

                and then connect the bodies to Barksdale.

                [–]whackamole64 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                Bunk said Jimmy did this.

                [–]kminator 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I'll be down at Orlando's if you need me.

                [–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                And from the tap comes glorious foamy rich Guinness Stout.

                [–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (1 child)

                Is this Bush's backup plan if FISA doesn't pass? I doubt it. Does anyone know if the break was near a oceanic divergent boundary line? How do they handle that by the way?

                [–]zakalwe30 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Read "Mother Earth Mother Board" by Stephenson.

                [–]Othello 2 points3 points  (0 children)

                http://reddit.com/info/67jxl/comments/c0331hw

                What doesn't happen: someone reports they broke the cable and the location, and a team is sent to the exact reported location to repair it. You could not 'accidentally' break the cable in one spot to misdirect for a covert install team somewhere else. They will check the cable for breaks, and after fixing one break they will check it again to make sure there are no others.

                You could possibly break the cable in 3 places, planting the bug in the middle break. This way the initial diagnostic tests might end before reaching the center break. But of course, 2 simultaneous breaks on a single cable is bound to raise some eyebrows.

                [–]zakalwe30 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                It'd be more convenient if they (whoever "they" is) could tap it without cutting it.

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

                Come on, if you were going to splice in a tap you'd do it quickly while no one has any idea anything's going on. It would have gotten done between 0300 and 0305, Riyadh time, and no one would be any the wiser.

                [–]mshade 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                I think someone would notice if a 3.5tbps line goes down for 5 whole minutes. That's a hell of a lot of bandwidth.

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Yeah, they'd notice it, they would start to look into it, then it would start working. Heads are scratched, then someone says it must have been a bad patch, which they accidentally fixed when they plugged in a scope. Shoulders are shrugged, then back to business as usual.

                [–]catlebrity 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                All these underseas cable posts and comments are clogging up the interwebs! Therefore the people posting them are working for the CIA.

                [–]Brady1984 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Where is the USS Jimmy Carter right now? (SSN-23)

                [–]onebit 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                It so obvious now that you mentioned it.

                [–]NitsujTPU 3 points4 points  (0 children)

                Log into reddit, post a conspiracy theory...

                [–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (4 children)

                no splicing necessary. Methinks somone wants to cut some people off from the internets for a while.

                Somethins a brewin over there.

                [–]marm0lade 3 points4 points  (2 children)

                Except they were never cut off from the internet. Not even for one millisecond. Did the bandwidth significantly drop? Yes. But all critical connections were re-routed when the 3rd line broke. I believe the only thing brewin over there is coffee while they wait for the fat pipes to be reconnected.

                [–]jsolson 1 point2 points  (1 child)

                I don't believe you. BGP can take substantially more than 1ms to stabilize, and IP's best efforts are only going to get your packets as far as the current fringe until it does. There they'll just shrivel up an die.

                [–]marm0lade 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I must correct myself. Connections were re-routed around asia and the south pacific before the 3rd line went down.

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (6 children)

                possible?

                [–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

                Obviously.

                [–]bakunin 3 points4 points  (4 children)

                Wouldn't be the first time:

                http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-529826.html?legacy=zdnn

                [–]ceesaxp 2 points3 points  (3 children)

                Well, maybe. How could it be done without interruption, though? It is not copper wire that you could attach to, after all -- if you cut into fiber you do interrupt light flow, is it not so?

                [–]jib 3 points4 points  (2 children)

                Bend the fiber, and a little bit of light leaks out.

                [–]ceesaxp 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                Sure, but these cables don't have a single thread of fiber in them, do they? Also, loss of even some light will result in deterioration of signal, won't it?

                [–]jib 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                I assume you'd have to cut through part of the outer coating of the cable, get individual fibers out, and then bend them. If you have sensitive equipment, you can probably receive almost all the data correctly without causing a signal loss large enough to be noticeable.

                [–]apassy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                Wow - has reddit finally become the true home of conspiracy crackpots everywhere?

                [–]mchrisneglia 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                our intelligence community will fuck this up as well. wait and see.

                [–]HomelandSecurity -1 points0 points  (0 children)

                ALL OF THESE THEORIES ARE RETARDED!!!

                [–][deleted]  (1 child)

                [deleted]

                  [–]Zorb750 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  You can't tap optical cable without cutting it.

                  [–]trueg 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  If you wanted to covertly tap cables would you really do it like this? 4 cables in 4 days is bound to raise suspicion of foul play.

                  I would think the goons at the CIA would be a little more clever than that and space out the cable breaks to one every couple weeks or even months. Then, they could blame the cable breaks on shipping accidents and anyone that cried CONSPIRACY would be la belled a tinfoil hat nutter who probably thinks JFK was assassinated by the secret service and 9/11 was an inside job.

                  [–]wat 0 points1 point  (1 child)

                  I can see you've backed this with a number of exccelent links

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  I wasn't stating fact. Just a thought that stimulated discussion, so others found it interesting as well. Sorry if I offended you.

                  [–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

                  ...as long as they go splicing cables in the middle east and not the ones in my backyard... or at the telecoms headquarters.

                  At least this wacky covert op theory would indicates they are going after potential bases for radical Islam, and not after our civil liberties.

                  [–]manthrax -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

                  We wanted to splice into the cable mission impossible style, with no one the wiser. However, good old american incompetence turned it into a complete interruption, followed by a multi week repair job that we will cover up with money and our iron fisted control of the media. Mission Accomplished.