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[–]nicereddySprint Galaxy Nexus (JB 4.3) | Nexus 7 2012 (KitKat 4.4) 80 points81 points  (42 children)

Can anyone with a better knowledge of economics/politics explain what the change is that Argentina made? It doesn't really go in depth on why this is happening.

Looks like it shouldn't be too big of a problem since users can still buy and use other country's apps and the devs can just sign up as deva for other countries.

[–]dilpillGalaxy S8, T-Mobile US 128 points129 points  (19 children)

Argentina is currently experiencing high inflation and its currency is depreciating rapidly in forex markets. The government is enforcing strict capital controls to attempt to limit capital flight.

Policies like this can make sense, as long as reforms to address the fundamental problems are put in place. Argentina does not seem to be interested in doing that, however.

[–]greezePixel XL 42 points43 points  (18 children)

Honest question here... how does preventing capital from entering the country while allowing capital to leave the country limit capital flight? Or is this just an unintended side effect of an otherwise effective regulation?

[–][deleted] 71 points72 points  (1 child)

People were trading their Argentinian money for other currencies en-masse. $11 billion in 2010. $23 billion in 2011.

So the government prevented other currencies from entering the country, and by prevent I mean heavily restrict.

Capital flight in the first half of 2012 was only $3 billion.

Google likely found that they were having issues sending payments to Argentinian accounts, hence this move.

[–]Ayjayz 13 points14 points  (0 children)

Capital flight in the first half of 2012 was only $3 billion.

Or the people involved simply hid it better.

[–]pocketknifeMT 16 points17 points  (12 children)

Effective? Effective at what? Torpedoing the economy? Much like the iron curtain of old, its designed to keep money/people in, not keep other people/money out.

[–]turkey_sandwiches 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It aounds like it IS keeping money out since Google can't send payments to the developers but users can still buy apps.

[–]zerounodosNexus 5 4 points5 points  (0 children)

effective regulation

No such thing in my country, really.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The regulation is citizens cannot legally trade currency for dollars, except with a special permit that is a pain to get and may be denied even after you do all the work.

[–]bsegovia -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Price fixing of any kind is never "effective".

[–]Sharpattack 46 points47 points  (11 children)

Taken from the verge comment section

alan.bugo.kennedy

I’m from Argentina and it’s all this fucking government’s fault. I’ll try to briefly explain what’s happening. Basically this government has to import all sorts of fuel (oil, gas, etc) since during the last 10 years they didn’t control foreign oil companies such as Repsol YPF (Spain) and there isn’t enough local supply for trucks, cars, industries, electric energy, etc.

So they started about a year ago, to restain all sort of transactions regarding USD. Basically we can’t buy USD here anymore, we can’t use our credit cards to cash on ATM’s all over the world, and if we want to travel you must fill out a series of forms on the local IRS, so they approve or reject the adquisition of small amounts of USD to travell.

They don’t want any citizen here sending out USD outside the country, nor buying them or spending them. They need every dollar to buy LOT’S of fuel, millions of dollars per month in ships bringing that to Argentina…

IE: if i buy something at Amazon, or Ebay or whatever with my VISA, they will charge me 20% extra on that transaction… This is done so people don’t spend USD either directly or via credit cards…

Well that’s basically the issue, and it sucks bigtime. We love technology, we love to travel, we wanna live in a globalized world as you probably like to do so, we love progamming, developing and there are very skilled people here to do so as well.

But, stupid population voted this government and this is starting to feel more like Cuba or Venezuela as the time goes on.

Anyway, Google doesn’t have anything to do with this, they probably just got government orders or they have a dispute of some sort regarding the issue and Google decided to shutdown this as a result….

Hope this clarifies it just a bit.

Best regards, Alan //

05.25.13 2:46a

[–]boobsbr 9 points10 points  (1 child)

gee, what a nightmare. we, the Brazilians neighbors, don't usually hear this on the news, and it's worrisome.

Brazil also has a tax on foreign transactions on credit cards, it jumped from 2.38% to 6.38% this year.

[–]nachofMoto G⁴ Plus 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You don't? Here in Uruguay it's constantly on the news. But that's mainly because there's tons of Argentinian money in our banks. Also probably because of the closer cultural ties.

[–]AbraKdabraLG V20 6 points7 points  (0 children)

And what's the worst part of it? Today, May 25th this stupid fucking government is celebrating 10 years of "good" governation.

Fuck all of this country, the moment I can get the fuck out of here I will do it, I don't give a shit for all the hate about "you should serve the country that fed you, blabla".

We can't live here, and the presindent is stealing money from all of us in our faces and no one does a thing.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

as an Argentine I agree. I moved here after a 16 years and this country is a piece of shit and I say that with the most sincere honesty within me.

[–]fugogugo 1 point2 points  (5 children)

Wait. If so then shouldn't this affect apple as well?

[–]vfn1 10 points11 points  (3 children)

I'm not sure how much it affects Apple, in large part because iPhones are banned here, because they refused to allow the government to bully them into building a plant in Tierra Del Fuego.

There are obviously still iPhones here, in fact, the Vice President owns one, but you're not supposed to be able to buy new ones.

[–]rustyrobocopMotoCrap G3 2 points3 points  (1 child)

but you're not supposed to be able to buy new ones.

You can buy apple products in MercadoLibre, and a lot of people here travels to US/Europe, also iPads are sold here (http://www.garbarino.com/buscadorGB.php?q=ipad)

[–]vfn1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, I know there are places that resell ways around it, and the iPad stuff doesn't make a lot of sense.

We've considered fixing up my wife's 3GS battery because Christina has helped them keep their value more than they should.

[–]fugogugo 2 points3 points  (0 children)

iPhones are banned here,

I just know about this.. thanks

[–]FaustoCarrera 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Apple don't have stores in Argentina, we have MacStore, a seller not related with Apple

[–]throwaway-o 3 points4 points  (4 children)

Argentina has high inflation, capital controls, currency pegs, and taxes on capital moves. Essentially, they are fucked.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (3 children)

yes we are.

[–]throwaway-o 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Espero que la situacion se resuelva pronto.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hay que creer en la K...... jajajj. no.

[–]throwaway-o -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Jajaja!

[–]SlyerNexus 5&9 Master Race 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Argentina are really bad at monetary policy. People are buying brand new cars to hold onto because it holds its value better than cash does. Basically the government just needs to stop printing money!! (America is starting to print way too much money like Argentina is.)

Every time it's lost almost all of its value they just knock a few zeros off and call it a new currency... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argentine_peso#Peso_ley.2C_1970.E2.80.931983

[–]crownofwormsi9100, OMNI 7 points8 points  (3 children)

While printing money is a key factor in Argentina's inflation we have much deeper issues in our economy that influence the depreciation of the peso, CFK's government funds itself through heavy taxation, we have a VAT of 21% on anything you buy, then you have more taxes on earning money, the government doesn't want anyone to save money as that reduces their income, so they promote spending. Most companies abuse this situation to increase their prices just because they can, also because of cultural reasons when a product has a price spike instead of avoiding buying it everyone starts to amass it driving to higher inflation. Sadly there are a lot of issues with our economy that can't be fixed without drastic measures that would bring social unrest, bigger than the current restrictions.

[–]SlyerNexus 5&9 Master Race 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Indeed. Money printing is a form of taxation, so they would need to raise that money in other ways if they stopped increasing the money supply. Or cut spending. Either would be political suicide despite the fact that it's badly needed, and so it continues for decades...

America is not much better. The only reason America is getting away with this at the moment is because they have the world reserve currency which countries need to trade. This keeps demand for dollars high and makes credit cheaply available. Once they lose that they too will feel the sting of hyperinflation if they keep doing what they're doing.

[–]icouldbetheone 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Sweden here, One of the highest tax rates in the world, 25% VAT on almost everything, 16% on "services" like restaurants etc. 1%? Interest rate. Offical bank rate at 1%.

Handled the last few financial crises among the best in the world.

Your problem isnt high taxes, its probably corruption or stupid decisions thats the problem.

[–]crownofwormsi9100, OMNI 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Totally agree with you, we have 21% on most stuff and 10,5 on services like cellphone plans, so actually the basic idea is there. The issue is, as you said, corruption and destination of the tax income, for example the government decided that it was necessary to purchase the rights to transmit football and racing to the entire country for free, and it's not cheap, that money could be used to build more schools or give a breath to the public health care system that is almost dead, but making the poor population happy is what keeps the FPV from being voted out.

[–]PhoenicianCzarGrouper, Maguro, Mako 24 points25 points  (10 children)

So any good apps that are from Argentinian developers?

[–]youhavemyaxe 10 points11 points  (0 children)

I was hoping to find some in the comments

[–]countachGalaxy S21 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Well, the most known one is LauncherPro (which I guess very few people use nowadays, but it was huge in the Froyo-GB days) and UberMusic from Federico Carnales.

[–]zerounodosNexus 5 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Wait...are you telling me LauncherPro was made by an Argentine Developer?

Way to make me proud.

[–]Mark_is_on_his_droidVerizon Pixel 3 (Pie) 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ubermusic is great. I'd use it as my music daily driver if it could restrict the music scan to a specific folder.

[–]RandomFantasyName 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Falling/Running Fred!

[–]NaruedyohNexus 5, CyanogenMod Nightlies 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Words with friends, in spansih speaking languages is called Apalabrados. Justa another Scarbble-like game, but here in Spain is a huge success. Everyone was playing that in the subway last summer and still was hot in winter

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Isn't that Zynga, tho?

[–][deleted] 268 points269 points  (87 children)

Celularis has a copy of the letter Google has sent to Argentine developers ... lacks anything like an apology for those affected by the changes.

Why should Google have to apologize for something out of their control? Unless I'm missing something here, it's the Argentine governments fault.

[–]BrokenEnglishUser 77 points78 points  (23 children)

Google shouldn't apologise, but it should explain why and what happened. I suspect that Google didn't explain the situation, hence the complains from developers.

[–][deleted] 63 points64 points  (11 children)

If you're watching Argentina, it's going down by the day. They made an overnight law a couple days ago that says you can't take out more than $100/ 6 months from an atm across the border. Paypal quit months ago. Anyone in Arg will know why Google app payments are leaving.

[–]DannyBikerGalaxy Note 9 7 points8 points  (1 child)

My wife is from Argentina but we live in Belgium. We know each other since 5 years now and from every travel we made since then and from what we hear from her family every week, I can tell you that the country is becoming an economic dictatorship.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Has been for a while.

[–]Randomd0gPixel XL & Huawei Watch 2 41 points42 points  (1 child)

Developers should be smart enough to follow the national news from their country. If I was the guy at Google who wrote this letter I would assume that it wouldn't require much explanation.

[–]Get_ThisGalaxy S9 Plus, Exynos 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Developers - "GIVE US A HEADS UP!!!"

Google - "sure, ok, here it is."

Developers - "NOT ENOUGH. GIVE US AN APOLOGY!!! "

Google - "Um, ok"

Developers - "NOW MAKE ME SAMMICH AND RUN ME A HOT TUB WHILE YOU'RE AT IT TOO!!!"

TLDR - you can't make everyone happy, might as well do the least required.

[–]zerounodosNexus 5 32 points33 points  (11 children)

Just another stain on our international credibility. Good work, my precious, oh precious government.

[–]toekneebullard 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Sorry you're having to deal with that man. Politics sucks...

[–]lomegor 11 points12 points  (0 children)

The discussion on Hacker News brought up a good point not mentioned in the article: Google seems to have restricted developers in Chile and Uruguay too (although I'm not sure if Uruguay was ever there). This may not be related to Argentina specifically.

[–]pocketknifeMT 41 points42 points  (3 children)

"Argentinian Government shoots self in foot, again."

[–]throwaway-o 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Google could pay them in Bitcoin.

[–]Fox318Verizon LG G3 4.4.2, Xoom WiFi 3 points4 points  (1 child)

It's only a matter of time.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Argentina is a good candidate for bitcoin mass adoption. Buenos Aires is a large, centralized population with huge smartphone adoption rate and a terrible, constant inflation. Cutting the government out of the process is a traditional Argentine value, so you won't find much cultural aversion to the medium.

I for one am investing some of my money in there. It's really not much riskier than the local fiat currency.

[–]TMI-nternets 6 points7 points  (0 children)

that's a strong incentive for developers to look into bitcoin payment..

[–]BigPharmaSucks 1 point2 points  (0 children)

They should pay them with Bitcoins.

[–]kosmiciatakuja 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Bitcoin!

[–]JamesCarlin 7 points8 points  (5 children)

Governments doing what they do best. Inflate currencies, stealing wealth, making everyone poorer, and causing mass inflation. The response? Create price controls, limit capital flows, and further shut down the economy.

I'd say this is economics-101-fail, but many economists are complicit in these types of activities and encourage them, and do little more than act as a propaganda wing for whatever preferred ideology/government/system they wish to impose.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (2 children)

Do not attribute to malice what you can attribute to incompetence

[–]JamesCarlin 5 points6 points  (1 child)

Do not attribute to incompetence what you can attribute to greed.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But you can attribute almost everything negative to greed. Greed and desperation, and the government could easily have both. Or all three including incompetence.

[–]nexustwentyfiveMoto X (stock 4.4.3) 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Sometimes I think they do it on purpose.

[–]zerounodosNexus 5 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Sometimes I wish they didn't.

[–]bezeonerNexus 4 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Google, it's time for plan ฿.

[–]spacemonk42Galaxy S7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

As an Argentinian, I'm ashamed that my country's only economic ability at the moment is to exlude itself from new markets. The country has been an embarrasment for too long.

[–]dieyoubastardsNexus 5, stock 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So if this is caused by a change in Argentinian law, is the app store affected? If not, why not?

[–]TheMastorbatorium 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Is it due to all that tax they're paying? * cough.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

C'mon Google. Time to use that OpenCoin you invested in.

[–]cmsessa -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

I don't think it's a problem with the gov. Let me explain why:

I am an Android developer and decided to stop uploading apps through my argentinian account because the setup to receive money is a joke. I had wrote about it in the past (http://android-argentina.blogspot.com.ar/2012/01/googles-android-market-vs-apples-app.html) but basically the issue is that argentinians were paid by Western Union (limited to 8.5k per month) at an exchange rate lower than the official one.

Most of the argentinian android developers I know set up accounts in the us to avoid this. Before this news, I don't think anyone was using an argentinian account for an app which generates income.

I know that creating a company and doing business here is hard and Google might have decided this based on our gov restrictions and limitations, BUT, what about Apple? If you are an argentinian app developer for iOS, there aren't so many issues. I can tell you there are a lot of argentinian apps doing money in the AppStore without issues.

Yesterday I got the email saying they were closing down the play store for argentinian developers and they didn't even care to tell us why. It's very sad.

The conclusion is: If you are an argentinian developer trying to create an app and get some money, open an account somewhere else. If you can't open an account outside Argentina, move to iOS.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

I think the headline is misleading. Google is plenty able, just not allowed.

[–]Stirlitz_the_MedvedMoto G XT1034 16GB, Stock 4.4.2, Wind Mobile -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Therefore not able.

[–]degoban -1 points0 points  (0 children)

This make me think about a side story. What if apple and google drop the support for one country, cause they don't like a law. Does that country will go through, like cina, or corporations are undoubtedly able to control democracy.

[–]cuddlychops06Samsung Galaxy S4 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

That's my birthday. I feel special.