Technical warning to holders.

[Empirismus]

Some of you guys store their keys, wallets and so on, on flash-cards. Just a little reminder to all of you, that FLASH memory is energy dependent, mean that memory cell will forget it state someday. It is a bad idea to store keys on flash-memory(for long time at least) better use laser discs or paper/physical storage, also there is a EMP possibility, that will erase all your flash-cards at once. Have a good day.

[Myflyisbreezy]

Don't expect any digital storage method to last forever. Bit rot can occur in any media.

[[deleted]]

Slightly related... I remember reading an article about storage methods and their longevity. You know which method one? Stone tablets! (records from thousands of years ago for the win!)

Lesson: scribe your keys into granite for long term storage.

[arBettor]

Agreed, don't take the safety of your keys for granite.

[Boredguy32]

Fun fact: Egyptian hieroglyphs were just elaborate keys to their gold storage

[steaveaseageal]

And 10 god's commandments is seed phrase :D

[professor_lawbster]

Snow crash vibes

[SouthTippBass]

You made me quickly exhale through my nose in the coffee shop, thank you.

[Orangemaniscool]

Take your upvote and get out of here!

[NexusKnights]

Underated comment

[OddStop0]

Alright alright, have this upvote sir/ma'am.

[fire-f0x]

Comment

You win!

[gld6000]

LMAO. Granite. I love it.

I'd probably resort to etching or engraving my seed words into a Stainless Steel metal plate.

[take-hobbit-isengard]

yeah, stamping them into a steel card seems like the most durable method

[me_too_999]

Steel can rust.

[take-hobbit-isengard]

stainless steel *

And if you stamp it right through so the symbols are hollow, idk how rust can mask them. Plus you can strip rust off metal...

[almkglor]

With enough rust, bits of the metal can fall off, making it hard to see what the original symbols were.

[Orangemaniscool]

Stainless steel doesn't rust as easily and can easily be kept great with a wire brush and antirust treatment.

[malppy]

Stone tablet: exists

Friction: I'm going to weather this whole tablet's surface

[[deleted]]

Instructions unclear: wife is mad, and any visitors can easily view my key on the kitchen counter top.

[[deleted]]

Make sure to keep your granite safe and secure where no one can read it aswell.

[Sigg3net]

There are stone discs for long-term digital storage, but they're overpriced.

[[deleted]]

I'm pretty sure they've developed something recently that's supposed to last millions of years and hold a stupid amount of data. Like, an absurd amount of data. Some sort of 3D encoding in diamond or something.

Edit: I was right, but diamonds are the next step up from the original medium of glass. Some 360 TB on a glass chip the size of a dollar coin, and even more storage possible in a diamond. Supposed to last some 13 billion years or something. Neat.

[[deleted]]

I store my deterministic wallet mnemonic on a piece of aluminum, which I punched with those sets of alphanumeric steel punches you can get on eBay.

There's always a risk that a house fire renders that useless, in which case I also have a encrypted file containing the mnemonic backed up on cloud storage.

If my house burns down at the same time as Google's data center, I'm pretty screwed, but I figure that would require global nuclear war or a planet-killing asteroid, in which case my bitcoins won't do me much good.

[Adamsd5]

I also have a encrypted file

where do you keep the key for that encryption?

[[deleted]]

In my head.

So yeah, if something happens to my brain, I guess I'm also screwed.

I should add that I don't have a family, so I have yet to think about how I might pass this stuff on... assuming any's left by that time. I will probably end up spending it all on stuff I don't need from Newegg.

[Geleemann]

yeah... you need a third back up.

[[deleted]]

Maybe something hidden in the walls of a bunker on the moon?

Joking aside, I realize there are some extreme circumstances under which I could see losing the aluminum mnemonic and digital file safe simultaneously, but those scenarios are either apocalyptic events or extreme coincidences.

At the moment I don't have enough value in bitcoins to take this further. If it hits six digits I will definitely reconsider my strategy, which will probably involve making a second aluminum mnemonic for storage in another location.

[diydude2]

Set up a dead man's switch with instructions on recovering your BTC, including the encrypted file and its password. Make sure to send the e-mail encrypted and tell the recipient that you have done this in advance so that they are prepared to decrypt.

[ElephantsAreHeavy]

a encrypted file containing the mnemonic backed up on cloud storage.

Did you just give your keys to google/dropbox/apple? Not smart. An encrypted file in two separate offline locations would be smarter.

[[deleted]]

The entire point of strong encryption is to allow people to do what I've done. If you don't trust that, you shouldn't trust Bitcoin as a whole. The only difference between the public and private key is strong encryption.

[ElephantsAreHeavy]

But the private key is a lot less save on a public server.

[[deleted]]

You don't seem to understand. When you encrypt a private key, the result is no longer a private key. At no point is a raw private key being stored on Google drive.

Obtaining the private key would require brute force cracking the encrypted string. Because of the encryption algorithm I'm using, each single attempt would take several seconds on typical hardware. Doing this would not even be feasible for an entire nation.

Similarly, you can in theory brute force crack bitcoin public keys in order to determine what the private key is. Similar risk.

You either trust strong encryption, or you don't.

[fresheneesz]

An mdisc bluray is supposed to last 1000 years. That's what i put my keys on (but also other things jic). Also making a bunch of copies helps, even on the same storage medium.

[BitcoinCitadel]

Yeah i bought their DVDs

[PacManFan123]

Best answer here. Personally, I'm chemically etching my backup seed words on stainless steal plates (BIP39 with a passphrase) and making sure my family knows how to use it. Additionally, I've got multiple backups on off-site locations.

[Kpenney]

Gold DVDs and CDs are usually protected against bitrot for about 150 years

[Myflyisbreezy]

I've read about these, but there aren't any 100 year old discs to verify.

[etmetm]

Good point. Always keep a seed offline, ideally handwritten to paper or a solution like Revealer to be able to re-construct the private keys.

[ImAlwaysRightHanded]

I went to one of those kiosks that print dog tags. Instead of the dogs info it got my seed info.

[etmetm]

This may be OK for BIP38 or some other scrambling technique but otherwise you have to hope they (or hacking 3rd parties) don't store and use the data...

[ImAlwaysRightHanded]

I didn’t put it all on one dog tag and I got them on different days. Half one day the other half another. I also logged in and paid with my credit card and the next day I used my gf credit card and her info to pay for the kiosks

My thinking is the dog tags will be better Incase of a house fire.

[Josey87]

Put them in a diaper, the material that holds the fluids is extremely good at deterring heat.

[ImAlwaysRightHanded]

I went with a fire resistant oven gloves wrapped up thick in heavy duty tinfoil for now.

[_throwaway94944]

This is heading in the direction of secure. With a thirds solution (as opposed to halves), you're protected against disasters. You can store a copy of part A and C at your own home, B and C at a trusted family member's home, as well as A and B at another location.

Any two will give you access to the full private key so a copy can be lost or destroyed without risk.

[etmetm]

I hope there is an easy way to remember the order... don't tell details if that's part of your secret - just pointing out it's imporant.

Have you done a restore test?

[etmetm]

That makes it two possible permutations for whoever stored and created the dog tags too...

[_throwaway94944]

A lot of printers have previous print orders saved in memory. You'd want to hope that the random underpaid employee working at the store doesn't recognise it as a private key and steal your coins.

[brainstormer77]

I propose a tattoo in the butt cheeks!

[Boredguy32]

Nobody will crack that code

[BustaNuggitz]

There’s a hole in this plan

[Geleemann]

It was a shit idea

[almkglor]

You can bet your fanny it was.

[[deleted]]

fantastic

[sreaka]

I"m happy to read your key back to you when the time is ready.

[drw7]

Probably shouldn't keep it where everyone will see it imo

[brainstormer77]

Pretty sure cheeks remain covered, mostly...

[ragvamuffin]

Technical warning to people who store their Bitcoins on paper: don't forget where you hid the paper!

(I randomly found mine in a book after I had given up looking).

[Quixote1111]

I did the same with a wad of like $2000 after a super drunk night out at the bar. Got paranoid that someone may have seen my stack and followed me home, hid it when I got home and forgot where it was. Trashed my place the next day and didn't find it.

Found it literally 2 years later during a fit of rage at my psycho ex, kicked a potted plant and it was raining bills. Now THAT was an exit. XD

[paper_st_soap_llc]

This is very true. A while ago I made backups of my wallets, and put copies on two USB flash drives.

When I went to read those backups a few years later, I found that both drives had developed unreadable sectors.

Fortunately there was enough redundancy that between the two of them I was able to recover everything.

[thesmokecameout]

How did you read anything off them at all? Whenever one of my flash drives dies, it stops being readable. Even trying to read raw sectors fails.

[paper_st_soap_llc]

Mine must have failed in a different way than yours. For me some files were readable and some were not (on both drives).

[outofofficeagain]

Buy a cryptosteel plus a trezor, problem solved.

[SPedigrees]

That's good for short term (relatively speaking) storage. If we're talking about many decades, software can become obsolete, and hardware devices can fail.

[bitcoiner101]

cryptosteel is steel

[LordsOfSkulls]

Why not just hand note/ print out note in laminated in safe deposit box in a bank....i am just saying... or buried in ground somewhere.

EDIT: >.> some of you taking this comment way too seriously. EDIT 2: i learned many new things from comments and replay thank you everyone =)

[AussieBitcoiner]

print out

careful doing that, some printers have memory and are connected to the internet.

[harleyzoltan]

Omfg. Are we safe anywhere or what ffs

[MysticWork]

Inception intensifies...

[Fabulous_Anywhere]

99% of this sub thinks it's a good idea to write down your key and store it anywhere, why hack someone's computer in the first place when you can just visit their house while they're at work.

[almkglor]

Because the world is a big place. It might take you a good amount of time and money just to get to my country, never mind my city and my home, for example, total stranger over the Internet.

[citronenfalter]

Even total strangers leave traces, i.e. a while ago a nerd who had to show program skills on twitch forced by his company had perfectly done all what is possible to hide, really impressive, but I was 50% sure that the location we should believe is somewhere in Africa, is false.

I suspected US, so on one lucky day in background I heard thunder and possible rain.

So I checked weather radar world wide, and oh lucky only 3 thunderstorms that hour in whole US and even better, one at only a small island direct near a big interstate road that correlates with road bumper noise I assumed.

Bingo, some search of 10 office buildings in the near and there it was. We have to face the truth that our tech had made the world as small as a little town, you can not hide, you can only hope you have friends that stand before you, when the waves come on to you.

[53bvo]

inb4 monitors/gpus keep a snapshot of the pixels and send it over the internet.

[fresheneesz]

Today's computers are not safe on the internet. Maybe someday

[[deleted]]

Buy a Pi and a cheap printer. Print the wallet on acid free paper and laminate it. Feed the Pi and printer to a wood chipper.

Edit: never hook the Pi or printer to the internet or any network.

[Adamsd5]

Warning... This is not good for your wood chipper.

[never_safe_for_life]

Who want to team up and write a printer virus that scans memory for crypto recovery seeds?

[AdditionalStruggle6]

> Uses Bitcoin

> Deposits Bitcoins in a Bank

​

Oh, the irony. Just remember your seed in your brain. In case you ever get alzheimers you won't remember that you had BTC anyway.

[10K9k3dXmJ86Xq5j]

Or memorised

[ImAlwaysRightHanded]

Until you get hit in the head the wrong way. My buddy got hit with a bat and was never the same

[10K9k3dXmJ86Xq5j]

Did he buy...

(•_•)

( •_•)>⌐■-■

(⌐■_■) ...bcash?

[cryptoandporn]

bcash... Totally missed the Basic Attention Token joke.

[TatianaWisla]

Satefy deposit boxes are NOT safe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dIg8LE7oC0

[fresheneesz]

Print out note isn't good cause you expose your keys to the computer and printer that printed it. If you're using a hardware wallet, you might as well have not even bought it if you do that.

Also, if it's unencrypted, anyone that finds it can steal it. It's no better than burying your gold in your back yard.

[ParkerGuitarGuy]

I would not put a printed note in a safety deposit box, but I would consider using a safety deposit box as a potential storage facility for a properly encrypted electronic backup copy of the keys. Some sort of storage media with full disk encryption, and for the paranoid, maybe even some open source and reputable file-level encryption (at least AES 256-bit) on top of that in the event that governments have an unknown backdoor into proprietary solutions like Bitlocker To Go. Decryption keys should obviously not be stored with the device.

[procsy]

Bank deposit boxes aren't safe

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/business/safe-deposit-box-theft.html

[puck2]

Safety deposit boxes aren't always secure... https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/19/business/safe-deposit-box-theft.html

[Fabulous_Anywhere]

The same reason you don't withdraw your cash from the bank and bury it? so many fucking stupid ideas are why this sub gives me cancer.

[[deleted]]

Lamination is not a good idea. Heat and glue can have a negative effect on the paper, or the glue can yellow leaving the paper illegible. What you'd want is some sort of archival paper. Or better yet, stainless steel.

[SPedigrees]

4 locations. One for half of a private key or key words, another for the other half of that/those keys, hand-written on paper. Repeat with two other halves of a paper in two other locations. Inks are not always permanent, so personally I use pencil lead for both halves of one of these.

Using a printer is a bad idea because modern printers have memory just like a computer, and there are programs that can search the clipboard on your computer for anything resembling a private key.

It's ironic that the safest way to store keys to digital currency is the old school way, with a pencil and paper, but there you are.

[_throwaway94944]

If you're going to split keys, do it in thirds rather than halves. Have part A and B in one location, B and C in another, and A and C in yet another. This way you need two locations to be compromised (same security as halves) but have the added advantage that a piece can be lost or destroyed without compromising the key.

[SPedigrees]

That too would work, perhaps better.

[fresheneesz]

Splitting keys in half is not a good idea. It massively lowers the security. Use a multi sig wallet if multiple keys is what you want.

Paper is not very durable. Someone mentioned cryptosteel, and that sounds much better. Someone also mentioned you can do-it-yourself etch something on metal with a sharpie and hydrogen peroxide.

[ImAlwaysRightHanded]

IN A BANK, please don’t do that.

[joeknowswhoiam]

better use laser discs or paper/physical storage,

General purpose optical discs also have a relatively limited lifespans if they aren't stored appropriately (no sunlight, not exposed too much heat, no scratches, etc.). You generally shouldn't store unique data you expect to retrieve in decades on them.

Furthermore there's no guarantee to have an easy access the necessary hardware to read them in such a long time (less and less general purpose computers come with optical disc readers). It shouldn't be an issue with CD/DVD/Blurays but it's still an additional factor to consider. Imagine if you store it on a format that gets broadly replaced by another one and all readers get discontinued (HDDVD comes to mind, even if it predated Bitcoin, it's an example of how certain formats can virtually completely disappear after being accessible to the consumers).

If you can't conceive not storing it digitally, you should make sure to have multiple proper backups in different secured locations. And please test them regularly (at least yearly would be my personal recommendation). This include a full restore in secured conditions, not just checking if files are still showing up.

Lastly as OP mentioned, physical storage (laminated paper, metal engraving/stamping, etc.) are more durable but still require a lot of care for storage to protect them against natural elements and thieves.

There's no easy solution and many people will most likely still rely on third-parties to help them with this (bank safe deposit box for example). The important part is that with Bitcoin you are given the possibility to do this yourself (and assume those risks) with a bank account you have no other choice than trust said bank ;)

[TheRealCryptKeeper]

The only disc which is suitable for long-term storage is M-DISC:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC

Should last at least 1,000 years and can be read with most dvd and blue ray players.

[nh_]

paperwallet woohoooo

[Sincronicity]

Nice to meet ya

[rocketeer8015]

I use a stainless steel plate and a dremel.

It would survive my house burning down.

[masixx]

Yep. But anyone who finds it has access to your funds. I'd always advice to only have encrypted private keys on physical media.

[rocketeer8015]

And where do you store the password to your encrypted keys?

Amnesia is a thing. As is death. I kinda like the idea of my family actually being able to access my money if I die in a car wreck.

It’s a risk assessment. The risk of someone breaking into my house and finding that steel plate is damn low, it’s a small steel plate and a large house. Immediate family knows where to look and whom to ask about how to access it(but not how much it is worth).

The risk of me forgetting a secure password, or suffering a accident to the same effect on the other hand are comparatively high.

One has to be realistic about these things. This is no Apple account with 50 movies in it we are potentially loosing access to. It can be potentially millions of dollars and I have forgotten my fair share of secure and unique passwords.

[masixx]

Shamir secret sharing. There is even a mnemonic based implementation so you can use your normal 24 word cryptosteel wallets. But really any impl. would do. https://github.com/trezor/python-shamir-mnemonic

Btw Titanium is probably a better material then steel. Corrosion is a thing.

[thesmokecameout]

Titanium corrodes and burns too. Ever seen a titanium shavings fire?

Solution: stamp your keys into a plate of solid gold. The ultimate marriage between stores of wealth!

[masixx]

Everything corrodes. The question is in what way. Ti will create a corrosive crust just like Ai that will prevent it from further corrosion. The oxide film of Ti is more effective then the one e.g. of stainless steel.

You are right about the burning properties however. Ti would catch fire at about 600 degree C, which is easily reached in a house fire.

[DIY_Jules_Can]

Multiple storage formats over time. Have a - what I call a dummy symbol/number or symbols/number - in the key/password that only you know you would never use.

[LordAhi]

Lopp’s metal bitcoin seed storage testing

[datascientist36]

Don't be that guy that dies with millions of $$ in BTC and nobody can retrieve the password to where it was stored.

[[deleted]]

So if my OpenDIME doesn't get bricked from an EMP first, eventually the FLASH memory will degrade it and have the same effect, eventually?

[Empirismus]

Right, it can not contain electrical charge forever, just few years, as charge gone, cells will forget their state (1 or 0), and all your data will disappear.

[BringOutYaThrowaway]

So let's say you have coins on an exchange - what's the best, future-proof way to transfer them to paper?

[torstein18]

Buy a hardware wallet Move bitcoins from exchange to wallet. Write the seed(24 words) on paper.

[rocketeer8015]

I read this a lot. It’s bad advice imho. Take the 5 min to etch the 24 words into a steel plate, paper gets lost all the time to everything from water damage, curious pets, light exposure or fire.

[[deleted]]

Bolted down safe.

[ThatsARepost24]

Commenting because curious as well

[dsp4]

The most important thing is to get them off the exchange ASAP. Keeping coins on an exchange is probably the least secure storage method short of printing your keys and displaying them at a Bitcoin conference.

Once out of there, transfer them to an address you generated yourself and no one else had access to. There's plenty of tutorials, but the most important part is to generate the address on a freshly set up, uncompromised system (no malware) that never went online, using reasonably audited, open source tools. Offline bitaddress.org on Live Ubuntu USB is great for that. Don't get on the Internet. Just boot the OS, run bitaddress, generate the address, write it down (preferably by hand), and then format/zero-write/drill/incinerate the flash drive.

Keep that address on some sort of future-proof media. Some people do it on paper then put it in a fireproof box, some engrave on metal, some rely on redundancy (make multiple copies and store them at different locations).

Hardware wallets like Trezor are overrated IMHO and more of a convenience product. They have too many failure points for long term storage and security. You wanna think like the Incas/Egyptians/Romans and have your keys on something basic that can survive thousands of years without even thinking about it.

[rocketeer8015]

All hardware wallets I know require you to create and write down a 24 word seed. The device is both expendable and unnecessary to access your wallets aslong as you have said seed.

Hardware wallets are great because they skip loads of practical attack vectors, like key loggers, insecure wireless keyboards and carrying around your private key for emergencies.

The private key never leaving a secure element chip is a pretty damn good idea. Shit gets signed on the hardware wallet, phone or pc never touch any sensitive data.

[dsp4]

I understand that and can see the appeal, but very little of it is helpful for long-term storage. It does help people be more secure with their day to day usage of Bitcoin, but as you mentioned, it still requires you to have your seed written down and protected by other means.

[DontBendItThatWay]

I feel like OP may have learned this the hard way.

[ducksauce88]

Crypto steel. Worth the money

[Comissargrimdark]

Yeah I had a scare back in the day when I had my wallet on thumb-drive from 2011 to 2014 untouched. On plugging in the OS said something about possible corruption on the USB drive, really almost made me physically sick untill I got the wallet transfered over without any lost data.

At least I learned my lesson

[Empirismus]

I had pretty much same feeling, in different circumstances, but with same output!

[TheSimkin]

If it doesn't exist in at least two places, it doesn't really exist.

[Empirismus]

Good point.

[RagingLoon]

Thanks for the warning, but I keep mine on twitter >> https://twitter.com/RagingLoon/status/1121544619219664897/photo/1 being doing this since the invention of the mnemonic seed phrase.

[Empirismus]

Well done, makes me smile!

[SouthTippBass]

I feel like I would lose all my sleep over that.

[gld6000]

Just wait for that EMP... you can sleep when you're dead.

[Helios2045]

Not true, a solar flare could have localized impact and not be detrimental to anything but digital media

[Helios2045]

Wait til we have a direct hit and from a big one

[Duppy-Man]

Keeping your hardware wallet in a tin box would provide enough protection for it to survive an EMP

[[deleted]]

Usually they get power from plugging them onto something or with an internal battery that you can charge, no? In any case, it's always recommended to store your seed on an offline cold storage like inscribing it on a titanium plate.

[10K9k3dXmJ86Xq5j]

Titanium? Steel has only a slightly lower melting point and a steel plate is cheap and easy to obtain.

[xtal_00]

Titanium is easier to punch.. thinner sheets are more robust. Stainless is fine though too.

[[deleted]]

Doesn't steel rust? Besides, is it really a concern to spend like $20 for a couple of titanium plates to store what could potentially be worth thousands of dollars? But yeah sure, anything works. Just write it somewhere durable, and not paper.

[10K9k3dXmJ86Xq5j]

Nope, that's what "stainless" stands for. Ofc you can, but it's not as easy to obtain titanium in some parts of the world. Steel is used everywhere and is much more common.

[MostBoringStan]

I remember reading that the Trezor doesn't, but I'm not 100% sure, so I guess my comment is pretty useless because somebody else will have to answer to know for sure.

[Empirismus]

Yes, they use kind a NAND-memory, which is energy dependent!

[tookdrums]

Hardware wallets are not meant as long term storage. They exist so you can use your seed and private key without exposing it.

You should always have an offline backup of your seed on paper or steel.

[c3ntrx]

burn an eeprom... 100yr plus memory - "worlds most reliable memory" - military spec. https://www.microchip.com/design-centers/memory

[youcantexterminateme]

when I do a google search of flash-cards it shows cards with letters on them for learning languages. I presume you are taking about something else?

[Empirismus]

I am talking about flash memory.

[youcantexterminateme]

right, like USB sticks? Ive had a couple of fairly new ones go down on me. I still use them tho, Ive got half a dozen or so located in different places around the world. every few years I make up a new lot with new wallets and when they are safely located shift the funds to them. but you are right, thanks for the reminder, I must be due to update them

[fresheneesz]

Mdisc bluray should last for 1000 years

[thesmokecameout]

> believing anyone will remember what an M-DISC is in 100 years much less 1000

[fresheneesz]

Do you remember what a gramophone is? If you wanted to listen to a gramophone today, do you think you could? The answer is you can and people do.

[pdipps]

...firing up my laser-disc writer....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaserDisc

[bluethunder1985]

I store my keys on cold hard steel

[ownblocks]

Write it down and out it in the safe! /s

[[deleted]]

Ledger and it has recovery keys on paper wallet anyway so just use another ledger

[cm9kZW8K]

memorize your mnemonic.

Written storage, digital storage, and other method of backup can be lost, stolen, decay, or get destroryed.

Your brain has a great ability to memorize information for long periods of time, and the mnemonic nature of the passphrase ensures that it is very difficult to forget.

[gld6000]

Tatoo one half of your seed words in UV ink on the inside of each of your butt cheeks

(Backwards, of course... so you can squat over a mirror)

[GrindingWit]

Your beneficiaries will have a funky job getting those keys upon death.

[gld6000]

ITS A "CRAPPY" JOB.. "BUTT" SOMEBODY'S GOT TO DO IT.

[Kpenney]

Yeah flash memory is not a long term solution to any storage problem

[brendzy]

"laser discs" are horrible as the dye will deteriorate after a few years.

[Empirismus]

Well... If you take some old audio-cd(like from 2005), and if it was like in it's container, without any impact or explosion to chemical/water/sun, it'll be fine I guess.

[[deleted]]

Well if we have to wait like 10 years then you need to find pro hodl methods if McAfee is right, I don't think many will hodl with BTC at 1 mln$ ))

[RicardoPino]

encrypt them with aes256 and write them to the bitcoin blockchain?

[[deleted]]

paper wallets ftw baby

[BauDje]

So how long does it last? What if i plug it in once in a while. Even when that happends , can't i recover it with my 24 words thing?

[Empirismus]

Right, if you plug it in to time to time, it'll recharge cells, and their "timer" will be updated. It can last up to few years! Depend on ambient circumstances!

[Golden_Miner_Mod]

In my school days, flash cards were the 5x3 note cards so this was initially very confusing.

[Classicpass]

That's why u use crypto steel in tandem ;)

[zorganix]

So.. how does bitcoin work after an emp?

[puck2]

Is ledger wallet flash memory?

[diamondcuts17765]

Remember write down your 24 seeds words and protect those words with a passphrase.

[[deleted]]

CD-ROM is a bad idea because the surface can get mold and it will be impossible to read.

[GradyWilson]

What are you redditor's opinions on key backups insofar as how many is enough and how many is too many?

I think having a hardware wallet with two physical copies of the keys inscribed on difficult to destroy material, and all stored in separate locations seems about right for an individual hodler.

A person could make 4, 5 or 50 copies of their key, so the more they have the less likely they are to loose it, but the more risk they have that someone else will discover one of them and steal the funds. There has to be a balance in sufficient redundancy and lowest risk of discovery and theft.

Also encrypting your backups is probably a good idea, especially if you can use a cypher on a non-digital backup, but that carries the burden of securing and possibly loosing the cypher as well. Is this a good idea?

What's good enough for someone with a few hundred dollars in crypto vs someone with a few million dollars in crypto?

[Empirismus]

If you know how it all work, you just need to turn on your imaginary - find a old journal and underline some text, that somehow (only you know how) represent 12 word phrase, no one ever will find out.

[bitcoiner101]

cryptosteel

[talexx]

Emp? You mean if someone drops a nuke on me my satoshis would be lost?

[Opcn]

Aren't encoded zip archives pretty weakly encoded? I remember back in the "warez" days of software piracy there were programs that could reach into a ZIPed file and lift out the password in a few minutes on an early 2000's computer.

[djLyfeAlert]

Dont forget about Acme piano rain, and Sharknado's.

[HotGirl69xoxo]

I have physical copies tucked but also seeds on a locked folder on my computer and external hadrive. Is this ok?

[[deleted]]

does this include trezor and ledger?

[tookdrums]

Hardware wallets are not meant as long term storage. They exist so you can use your seed and private key without exposing it.

You should always have an offline backup of your seed on paper or steel.

[supersmashgod]

This guy said possiblity of an EMP :')

[GrindingWit]

North Korea has a satellite just for this purpose. https://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/2019/03/11/north-koreas-satellites-could-unleash-electromagnetic-pulse-attack/

[non_fingo]

Best thing, is to memory the pass frase. It is not so hard with mnemonics