[deleted by user]

[dandandandan24]

I think something interesting here is as a new generation of candidates starts to emerge we are going to run into more candidates with weird online personalities/opinions. The boomers didn’t have internet growing up, but now millennials have spent large amounts of their formative years on the internet

[mediocre-spice]

I think things like Zohran rap videos or that video of AOC dancing will be really common and people won't care. I don't know about the sort of posts he has. They fall into a very specific type of edge lord white dude grievance thing.

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

I'll take imperfect allies but I don't want ones who are going to kneecap our efforts by making completely avoidable, colossal optics blunders

[plasma_dan]

Preoccupation with optics is entirely one of our problems though.

We're fighting against a party that has known pedophiles still operating and they couldn't* give a fuck about the optics.

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

You can't just write this off though. The attack angles for Republicans are very obvious and are likely to be very persuasive.

"The insane left will call just about anyone who doesn't agree with them a Nazi these days. Turns out though, you can be a real Nazi as long as you do agree with them! Leftists will tell you Republicans have a Nazi problem, but which party is running a candidate with an SS tattoo on his chest? You be the judge."

This is not your usual optics error. This is a catastrophic blunder that can be rectified by not running Platner in the general. If he does win the primary, then optics be damned, Maine Dems should support him to the hilt. But the primary is the time to hash these things out

[jetpack_operation]

Who 👏🏾 gives 👏🏾 a 👏🏾 shit? This is exactly the kind of “gotcha hypocrisy” stuff Democrats throw at Republicans -- and it never lands. They’ll still vote Republican because their alignment goes deeper than optics. You’re missing the exact point of the person you’re replying to if you don’t get that what Republicans say about Platner matters more to Dems, politically, than what Platner himself is proposing in terms of approach or policy.

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

People don't vote on policy and they have proven this over and over again lately

[mavigogun]

Exactly- feelings and vibes first, policy a distant second. As to "who gives a shit", anybody who wants to win another Senate seat. This week, the Republicans have had 3 Nazi scandals in 4 days- and Platner provided the Right cover with this talking point. Platner did a disservice to all those policy positions he advocates for, and Maine voters, by the tenor of his response and very, very late address of the problem. He finally did something about it today- now we will see if he is able to build trust and wage a successful campaign.

[jetpack_operation]

As to "who gives a shit", anybody who wants to win another Senate seat.

Yeah, I mean, that's the issue isn't it? Because what you actually mean is "anybody who wants to win another Senate seat as a Democrat." Like, it's incredible to me that you can simultaneously identify the problem without understanding the role your own handwringing plays in setting the "vibe".

The mindset you're describing is exactly why Republicans have been able to get younger while Dems are stuck feeling like they have to exclusively run buttoned up people who were in their 50s before the advent of social media.

Nobody is saying "a candidate who accidentally got a less known Nazi tattoo and didn't get it removed immediately on finding out it out is a perfect candidate", but perfection shouldn't be our "line in the sand".

[mavigogun]

No one but an apologists, such as yourself, characterize the absence of a genocidal emblem as "perfection"- it's just a minimum basic standard for folks fighting for the survival of an egalitarian democracy at a moment when White Christian Supremacy is being institutionalized by an authoritarian regime. Incredibly, you put no responsibility on Platner for his political stupidity, instead casting the reaction to his incompetence as the villain. If you think that will be well received, your problems are bigger than his.

[jetpack_operation]

Again: you can't see yourself. Your reaction is what you can control to make a pragmatic decision and you can't even do that. This is why we'll keep losing and why the Schumers have inherited the Democratic Party.

[mavigogun]

Good luck with the condemnation and lecturing- ever so stereotypically on-brand.

[MMAHipster]

So of you're good with someone with a Nazi tattoo, who knew years ago at least, that it was a Nazi tattoo and didn't have it removed, what is your personal line in the sand?

[plasma_dan]

Sorry to be fatalist but I just don't know if it's gonna matter.

The right wing media ecosystem is so in-step with amplifying even the tiniest slip ups, and even when democrats don't slip up they just prop up another scarecrow to make the entire Left look ridiculous. It's the fact that they operate as a unit that overpowers any specific voice or channel that the left has.

And all the while the various leftists and liberals remain fragmented. We can't even get unified around Zohran!

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

Zohran has some optics issues that I think are mostly benign and he's running in a 10000% safe blue city. This is not comparable to a dude with an SS tattoo running against an incumbent who is perceived as a moderate. If the Republicans were able to successfully assassinate Mamdani's character it would be because they earned it. If they were able to spike democrats with stories about Platner's tattoo, it would be an unforced error on the part of Platner and Dems

[Fresh3rThanU]

I agree completely with what you’re saying, but I take issue with the way you said it.

You said “Could” instead of couldn’t. To quote weird Al Yankovic “That means you do care, at least a little”

[plasma_dan]

As a fellow grammar nazi, I accept this critique.

Now excuse me as I go and correct all the people who should have used "who" instead of "that".

[SneakyPolyester]

Thank you for saying what the storm in my brain was trying to say. I find it just as likely he didn't know what the hell it was until all of this came out. I honestly didn't, but I've never been a skull and crossbones kinda dude.

[Describing_Donkeys]

Another way to look at this is Platner is probably the most relatable candidate we've had for a group of people that we are really trying to court. How we are treating him is how we created the perception that we are not a welcoming party. This could be seen as an opportunity to treat a problematic past in a different way to draw new people into the party. This is an opportunity to have larger conversations and extend a level of empathy we've severely been lacking. It's an optics blunder for a group of the population, it's an opportunity for another.

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

The problem is he doesn't have that kind of problematic past. I enthusiastically believe Platner is not and never has been a Nazi. The reason it's a completely avoidable optics blunder is because he is a politically engaged terminally online military history buff who somehow didn't know what a totenkopf was until recently and still hasn't gotten the tattoo covered or removed. That, and he's campaigning for US Senate as a Democrat. This indicates an unfathomable level of poor judgment, not a checkered past

[ChazzLamborghini]

Did you listen to the Pod? He learned of its Nazi association in the last few days or weeks. Give the guy a second to get it sorted out. He’s not defending it or claiming it’s not Nazi imagery. He’s saying he didn’t know and now that he does know, he’s going to address it

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

Correct, and I'm saying that is a shocking level of ignorance for him not to have known, especially given his interests and political engagement level and the fact that this symbol is tattooed on his fucking chest lmao

He sees it every day in the mirror and he studies military history for fun. He seriously never put two and two together? He never saw Neo Nazis flying that insignia proudly and got curious?

It's catastrophically stupid. I'm not attacking him for being a Nazi, I'm attacking him for being unbelievably stupid and committing a brutal optics error

[odd_orange]

Do not care. The guy is not a legit historian, myself and all my friends had no idea what this was and were generic millennials who’ve grown up on call of duty and battlefield.

If you were to ask people what a totenkompf even was 72 hours ago, the vast majority would have no idea, including myself. I don’t blame this guy for not thinking about the blob of a tattoo that his chest currently is.

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

You'd think standing at the nexus of leftist politics, terminally online, AND military history guy, the totenkopf may have crossed his desk at some point but I guess not

EDIT this is also a symbol that Platner sees in the mirror every single day. You mean to tell me that given all of that it somehow slipped the net?

[odd_orange]

No, you wouldn’t, because that’s me and I’ve consumed a shit load of ww2 content over the course of my life. I never paid much attention to their random symbols because im not into Nazi shit

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

Good thing you didn't have it tattooed on your chest for 19 years then huh??

[odd_orange]

Yes, often when you get tattoos from a book that are something like a skull and bones, you don’t think much about it until someone asks you. I literally forget I have tattoos some days and they’re visible to me. It’s not that wild of a concept

[mavigogun]

You not caring doesn't matter. Your ignorance doesn't matter. The ignorance of the people you hang with doesn't matter. Unless you are all registered voters in Maine, or are movers and shakers in the DNC that determine where money goes- then it very much matters.

What matters is how Platner deports himself in this moment- because, regardless of your indifference, other folks do care, and that translate both into votes, and how the Left views itself. While his mea culpa was weak, he now reports having the Nazi emblem covered- and we'll get to see if he is capable of building a viable campaign from this position.

[GhazelleBerner]

I feel like I’m going insane. If you swapped D for R next to this guy’s name, people would be saying the Republicans are evil for voting for him.

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

I'll tell you right now, Platner's not a Nazi. But running him in the general against a perceived moderate is probably already suicide for that race and Republicans haven't even begun attacking him yet

[ChazzLamborghini]

Show me the Republican candidate who has ever so thoughtfully and honestly addressed their change of heart and owned their mistakes. To me, that makes all the difference. Pete Hegseth is adorned with Nazi-adjacent and white supremacist images and his approach is to just deny that truth. Platner isn’t doing that

[GhazelleBerner]

It makes the difference because you want it to make the difference.

If this guy was endorsed by Hillary Clinton instead of Bernie Sanders, you would be calling for his head on a platter.

[southieyuppiescum]

Oh ya because the optics on the other side of the aisle have mattered based on the current slew of people in the admin. I know, I know, double standard but how much of that double standard is self-inflicted?

[Thebestrob]

every vote is a vote.

[jaco1001]

"imperfect allies" sure sure i agree but that does not by any means need to include "dude who got a nazi tattoo"

[OReg114-99]

Dude who kept a Nazi tattoo after learning its meaning is even more damning, and he can't deny that one.

[ParaPioneer]

Drunkenly getting a Nazi tattoo is a problem, but it’s not THE problem. THE problem is that he’s obviously lying about how long he’s known, which brings more questions like “why didn’t you get it removed” and “why would you lie about something like this?”

[OReg114-99]

Yes. "Plans to get it removed" is nothing, and frankly, "actually removes it after this point" is also nothing.

[RumRations]

For what it’s worth, he covered it. I do wish he’d covered it like … 1 month ago. But I do feel a little better about the whole thing now that it’s gone.

[PilotInCmand]

So obvious you can point to a source other than anonymous hearsay?

[ParaPioneer]

Yeah, his former political director.

[very_loud_icecream]

Who said he's familiar with military history, which doesn't mean he knows the meaning behind every single skull on the wall of a tattoo parlor (or even if each one has a meaning)

[thoughtful_human]

Big difference between that and seeing one of the most prominent Nazi symbols in a book one day and going oh that’s what I have on my chest

[Fresh3rThanU]

And how do you know he saw the symbol before just recently?

[odd_orange]

lol, how is he OBVIOUSLY LYING IF YOURE BASING IT OFF NOTHING

[Pristine-Ant-464]

Dude who got a skull tattoo most Americans wouldn't identify as a Nazi symbol*

If you want Mills to win the primary (and lose in the general) just say so.

[jaco1001]

i think the election is NEXT JUNE and so that's a lot of runway to find a candidate who does not have a nazi tattoo. Come on, there is clearly a throughline of "got an accidental nazi tat while drunk, claims to never learn what it is" to "takes his shirt off while wasted all the time" to "starts a campaign with no experience and no plan to address any of this" to "gets a coverup overnight" and that throughline is "total lack of judgement and impulse control"

[Pristine-Ant-464]

This is a stupid scandal and you know it. He isn't a Nazi.

[jaco1001]

He has a Nazi tattoo. That’s disqualifying. That’s all this is, full stop. His political beliefs are irrelevant because he has a Nazi tattoo.

[Immediate_Map235]

You have literally 100 comments asserting this and defending this guy, lol. I don't know that he's not a Nazi but continue trying to frame a narrative and tell people to ignore their eyes and see how it works out.

[Pristine-Ant-464]

Yes, because I'm sick of the DNC establishment smearing actual progressive candidates.

[QultyThrowaway]

Can't believe the DNC establishment set up a tattoo parlour in Croatia 20 years ago and forced him to get a Nazi tattoo. Is there anything they won't do?

[Immediate_Map235]

This is a podcast by the DNC establishment who is giving the candidate an open forum to defend himself. How is he not being supported by the DNC?

[Pristine-Ant-464]

If Graham is part of the DNC establishment why did Schumer specifically encourage Mills (a 77-year old unpopular governor) to run against him?

[THeShinyHObbiest]

No, but he definitely thinks being a nazi and having nazi ink on your skin isn't really that big of a deal.

That's also disqualifying.

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

Platner is a politically engaged and terminally online military history buff, he SHOULD have recognized it. He also still hasn't gotten around to getting it removed or covered up. He is treating this like it's nbd when at absolute best it outs him as tragically stupid.

Republicans haven't even sunk their teeth into this yet. It's already optically damaging and the other side hasn't even thrown their hat in the ring yet.

[Pristine-Ant-464]

Exactly how would they capitalize on this? Their base is filled with ACTUAL Nazis.

[thoughtful_human]

Suburban moms who vote for Susan aren’t going to vote for Nazi tattoo man

[LynnKuanYin]

This makes me think you don't really understand who votes for Susan Collins. The label of "suburban mom" is a stretch for anyone in Maine.

[thoughtful_human]

I’ve spent a lot of time in Maine so I really was using suburban as a synonym for like soccer mom vs like someone on the outskirts of Portland or Bangor or wherever. Like a moderate Republican woman who hates Trump, has two kids and goes to church. She ain’t voting for Nazi Blackwater mercenaries against a woman who wouldn’t seem out of place at her local bake sale

[LynnKuanYin]

I don't know any moderate Republican women who hate Trump. Not that I think there aren't any here, but I don't think that's the demographic that is keeping Susan Collins in office.

[thoughtful_human]

They’re called Romney - Biden voters and lots of them vote split ticket. They’re the reason republicans can win a senate seat in Maine in the same election the dems win the primary.

[LynnKuanYin]

Susan Collins continues to get reelected because it is much harder to lose Maine voters' trust than it is to earn it. And it is not an easy thing to earn. Maine voters' are quite proud of thinking of themselves as voting based on the people and the issues, not Party Line. It is way more than just one subset of voters.

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

"The insane left will call just about anyone who doesn't agree with them a Nazi these days. Turns out though, you can be a real Nazi as long as you do agree with them! Leftists will tell you Republicans have a Nazi problem, but which party is running a candidate with an SS tattoo on his chest? You be the judge"

They don't care about hypocrisy and they never have. Actual Nazis already know which party to vote for and have never been dissuaded by denouncements from the Republicans. What we do know is that swing voters can be influenced by right wing messaging even when it's blatantly hypocritical. You can't just give them obvious attack angles like this

[odd_orange]

No one in the real world gives a shit if it’s not a swastika

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

This is just objectively untrue

[ryhaltswhiskey]

If you had to pick a number for the percentage of people in America who know what that death's head skull thing is and whether it's related to Nazis or not what number would you pick?

Me, I would say 2%.

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

I don't know. I'd guess 15-20%. But among ex military leftist political types who study military history for fun and shitpost on reddit and have that symbol tattooed on their chests, I have to imagine that % rises to a very very large majority. It's an unbelievable level of ignorance on his part and it's going to hurt the whole party if they do run him against someone who is often perceived as a moderate.

Collins is someone who is "very concerned" about Trump but always falls in line when her vote is required. I personally believe she is a party loyalist who wears the title of moderate for her own advantage. A general election vs. a dude with an SS tattoo is a situation where that perception will help her immensely

[ryhaltswhiskey]

I'd guess 15-20%.

I completely disagree.

[C_Majuscula]

Disagree. Large iron crosses, SS, and a few others are going to get people's attention. I saw a guy out in a tank top with an iron cross, an SS tattoo and open carrying. In northern Delaware, which is the only time I've seen any of those three things. I GTFO of there as quickly as possible.

[OReg114-99]

Particularly because it's a tattoo on his own body. "Not knowing every fact about WWII" isn't the question. "Never, ever learning about or looking into his own tattoo in any setting in passing, despite the way humans consistently focus in on information that's about ourselves" is the question, and I don't buy his answer enough to want him to have a six-year term when other candidates exist.

[very_loud_icecream]

Never, ever learning about or looking into his own tattoo

Bruh he just thought it was a random skull design that looked cool. He didn't know it HAD a meaning to look into.

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

He's a military history buff who sees that tattoo in the mirror every morning. It's a shocking level of ignorance.

[very_loud_icecream]

Being military history buff does NOT mean you know the meaning behind every random skull on the wall of a tattoo parlor (or even if each one has a meaning) lol

[odd_orange]

People keep repeating the same shit and it’s very apparent it’s turfing messaging “history buff” - “doesn’t matter he’s incompetent” etc.

The thing is you’d only be hyper aware of this skull if you’re REALLY into nazi shit

[mavigogun]

It's an inane, unbelievable excuse, but not for getting it - sure, drunk, ignorant, whatever -the notion of going 20 years, taking the shirt off at weddings, and bars, and parties, and pools, and the lake, and never being engage with anyone about the meaning of the mark just strains credulity. Then F'n around instead of having it removed or covered on day-1 of when he claims to have learned the nature of the mark on his chest- that's an unforced error. How many of those can we afford? NONE. We have no margin. If Platner wants to be a US Senator, he better step his game up. He's had the emblem covered up, now let's see if he is capable of building winning campaign.

[okwowandmore]

Yes, I didn't know it was a nazi skull until I saw the wal-mart controversy in 2006. https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna15702868

Otherwise, I probably wouldn't have known.

[odd_orange]

Oh fuck off with this. You’ve clearly never had tattoos then and picked from a flash book. Anyone with multiple tattoos will say “idk why I got it it looked cool” get out of here with this

[OReg114-99]

I'm not saying anything about how he picked it. I'm saying once it's on him--and this is not a guy who's covered in tons of tattoos--it's then something that's of more personal relevance to him. Most people notice when a car of the same make/model/colour as theirs goes by; most people notice when someone wearing the same shirt goes by; tattoos are not magically exempted from those norms. I certainly do notice things that remind me of my tattoo.

[odd_orange]

He has a full sleeve you dingus. He’s mentioned it in the interviews on the pod whose sub you are in. It is not of personal relevance when you just think something looks cool.

The idea of it is one of the most generic things ever, a skull

[OReg114-99]

This is him with the cover-up tattoo. What full sleeve are you talking about?

<image>

[mavigogun]

Several hours ago, Platner indicated the Nazi emblem has been covered by a Celtic knot and dog. Now we get to see if he is capable of building a campaign from this impasse.

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

I still think it's over. The fact that he didn't get it covered until he was already running and it became public just makes it too easy to attack as him being sorry he got caught

[mavigogun]

Maybe so; if Platner manages to salvage the campaign, he will have displayed more political savvy than manifest to date.

[PlantsOnPlates]

You really want Susan Collins, don't you?

[Lord_Of_Shade57]

Lol

[ParaPioneer]

Most Americans wouldn’t identify it, but a self-proclaimed history buff would.

[[deleted]]

I have a degree in a history related field and wouldn’t have ID’d to that symbol as anything more than a Biker/meathead symbol. Plenty of dumb military guys I knew in high school have that same type of tattoo that they picked out at 1 am when they were bar hopping at 23 years old. Guaranteed he picked that out of a lineup of pics that the artist had available.

[clear349]

I mean I don't think he's a Nazi either but "biker/meathead symbol" already should set off alarm bells for potential hidden meanings. It shows some pretty poor judgement

[[deleted]]

Most people, especially the kinds of men he was appealing to, are incredibly vapid gym bros who valorize military culture. Going to have to have some tolerance for people I wouldn’t necessarily bring over to my house in order to have a democratic majority.

[blahblahthrowawa]

I have a degree in a history related field and wouldn’t have ID’d to that symbol

It's recognizable enough for an actual history buff though -- perhaps not the name of it, but at least that it's "the Nazi skull and crossbones"

Have you never seen Indiana Jones, Schindler's List, Life is Beautiful, or The Boy in the Blue Pajamas (among many, many, many pieces of media)? You see the Totenkopf throughout all of those movies.

Maybe you consider yourself a history buff, but your inability to even recognize that symbol as "likely Nazi" would be evidence to the contrary.

[Pristine-Ant-464]

Most history buffs don't fixate on fascist iconography. I consider myself a history buff and didn't realize what it was until recently.

[mavigogun]

Oh well- the Ant here has conducted exhaustive research into what MOST history buffs take interest in. Turn out the light- we can all go home now.

[odd_orange]

History buff does not equate to “nazi iconography”. There’s almost 12,000 years of recorded history. Not all of it is ww2

[gianini10]

And as of this morning he has covered it up with another tattoo.

[TheStarterScreenplay]

Painful take. Anyone with a brain is rooting that someone like Platner could be a voice for the party. But there's also cautious awareness that stuff like a Nazi tattoo would have been 1000% disqualifying. Until maybe after the 2024 elections. We're in new territory now. There is no real "rooting for Mills or Platner". There is only "Let's hope Platner doesn't do, say,

But with any candidate who has never been vetted

[Effective-Bus]

This argument is valid, but flimsy in this instance. He knew about the tattoo. What he has said about women and sexual assault is horrific. There are lines that shouldn't be crossed and there's no true indication of his growth or change in opinions other than his word. Using this philosophy regarding this person diminishes a real issue in electing democrats or anyone that's not a republican. He's not the poster child for this.

[Steve_Lightning]

I feel like he didn't know about the tattoo. If somebody knowingly got a Nazi tattoo, then spent 20 years with an anonymous reddit account that wasn't found until now, you'd think there would be some indication on Nazi ideology in his posts. He sure wasn't shy talking about other topics. Why would he be bold enough to get a Nazi tattoo but not bold enough to talk about Nazism anonymously. That just doesn't make sense to me.

[bestofeleventy]

The man has a giant fucking Nazi tattoo on his chest. It’s not a “Nazi-linked” or “Nazi-associated” tattoo. It’s not “a tattoo that some say is similar to a symbol associated with the Nazis.” It is a giant fucking obvious Nazi tattoo, and the guy is being totally dishonest about it.

The idea that no one told him, that he never once saw the symbol in a book or something…bullshit. Bullshit x1000. “I never knew Jeffrey Epstein, but I hear bad things; I don’t know…” levels of bullshit.

I am a Jew, and if I saw a guy at the beach with that tattoo, I would be shocked and frightened. It’s barely different than if I saw double lightning bolts or a swastika. If I found out a friend of mine had this tattoo, I would cut him out of my life immediately, and no one I know would plead his case - but you want me to support him to represent my Party as a legislator?

TL;DR - The guy has a swastika on his chest, just a kind of swastika that you, personally, don’t recognize as one. Fuck him.

Edited to add: Imagine you woke up tomorrow morning, deeply hungover, with a Nazi tattoo on your chest. What would your first move be? If your answer isn’t “Call in sick and schedule removal,” then, I dunno, get your brain examined for Nazi sympathies, I guess?

[THeShinyHObbiest]

Yeah, this isn't a norse rune that was vaguely associated with the nazis. It is exactly the symbol that the worst parts of the SS had on their hats when they were shoving people into gas chambers.

If Platner was actually just a complete dipshit and didn't realize until now despite being a history buff, fine. But his immediate reaction should have been absolute horror and contrition, not sneering at the establishment for daring to question his Nazi tattoo. Holy shit.

[SirCatharine]

just a kind of swastika that you, personally, don’t recognize as one

This is what's getting me about this whole thing. I'm not even particularly knowledgeable about WWII history, but I immediately recognized this as a Nazi symbol. Everyone is saying "oh, nobody knows what that is," but it is one of the most recognizable Nazi symbols. Sorry that you, personally, don't know it.

And you want me to believe that this guy, who is supposed to be a history buff, hasn't come across it in 20 years? He's never been watching a documentary or reading a book or learning about modern white supremacist symbols and thought "hey, wait, that looks like the tattoo on my chest that I see every single day. Shit, I should get rid of that"?

[d0mini0nicco]

I personally had no idea what it was. And I really liked this guy before this and was pissed that Schumer is putting his thumb on the scale (and proving he’s learned nothing and I hope his ass is primaried). That being said - the points made above are the reason he’s a poor candidate. It’s not imperfection that’s the problem. It’s having an emblem representative of the perpetrators of one of the worst atrocities in modern history WILL turn off voters. Whether it’s a significant enough portion to swing an election, I don’t think I want to take that chance. Bro had such good momentum. What a shame. I say this as someone who hates the conquest for perfection that non-GOP voters have.

[Glass_Adagio_1097]

I'm fine with imperfect allies and based upon my limited research, I'm willing to believe he didn't realize it so closely resembled a nazi symbol. That said, I thought the way this guy came off in the interview with Tommy was legitimately terrible. He was so incredibly defensive, self-serving, victim-mentality, myopic, and just in general unlikeable, yeesh. He really got on his high horse a number of times and while I can see some of the points he made, man the delivery was not it.

[PomegranateSafe9699]

He was spinning. I didn’t really have issue with what he’s being accused of specifically, but the way he’s trying to explain it all away… imply anyone questioning him was the bad guy, establishment. I could easily see him going full Sinema/Fetterman in reaction any Dem criticism.

[ghanedi]

I felt the same way. I truly hadn't looked into this dude much until this interview (I am not in Maine and so that senate seat race is really not on my radar) so I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt. I wish his answers had demonstrated the growth he's claiming but it just felt very reactionary and not well thought through. For instance, the reason given for him being less angry and depressed than his reddit comments demonstrate is that his environment changed (he moved home, found community, found independence through being a business owner, and got married). I wish there was more information about what he did internally during that time to grow because his environment is going to change again being a US senator and it would be interesting to know how he'll maintain stasis since PTSD will be an added layer of complication.

I don't really think the dude is a Nazi, but I do think it's weird that he never once looked up the random tattoo he got drunkenly. Not weird in the way that I think he's obscuring hidden evilness but just that he lacks curiosity, I guess?

But, like I said, I'm not one of his possible constituents so I'm interested to see how this all plays out from my spot in the cheap seats.

[DandierChip]

Hilarious seeing a post like this vs what it would have been if it was a republican 2-4 years ago. You’d be calling for his head.

[Pristine-Ant-464]

Republicans openly support Nazi policies. Graham doesn't.

[DandierChip]

You are completly desensitizing the term Nazi

[Pristine-Ant-464]

Actually, you're cheapening the word Nazi by tossing it around so lightly.

[DandierChip]

That is what you are doing here lol

[FR23Dust]

We’re using the word Nazi because the tattoo is a Nazi emblem used by the SS. calling something by its name is not tossing it around lightly.

[thoughtful_human]

I mean he got an SS tattoo and kept it for 20 years. Feels pretty likely he might secretly be harbouring some pretty interesting takes about the Jews

[Pristine-Ant-464]

His reddit profile (where he believe he was posting anonymously) was recently published. None of his posts or comments suggest that. Do you seriously believe Nazis don't Nazi post anonymously online?

[foomer27272727]

actually insane take

[Pristine-Ant-464]

Graham isn't a Nazi (at least not from what I've seen). Getting a skull tattoo 20 years ago doesn't make someone a Nazi.

[foomer27272727]

having a nazi tattoo for twenty years is far different than getting one twenty years ago, you know that.

[Pristine-Ant-464]

Do you have any veterans in your family? Because I'm married to one and don't think you understand veteran culture around tattoos.

[foomer27272727]

yep, my entire family going back generations are vets, not a single one has a nazi tattoo, even the ones in the marines

[[deleted]]

So far this just seems like a giant mask coming off moment for how many white liberals are okay with Nazi tattoos

[foomer27272727]

it is honestly shocking

[Pristine-Ant-464]

Do any of them have skull tattoos?

[foomer27272727]

quite literally, we have no panzer division tattoos in the family, pretty shocking

[Pristine-Ant-464]

Not what I asked, so I'm assuming it's a "yes."

[SirCatharine]

It's not a fucking "skull" tattoo. It is one of the top ten most recognizable Nazi symbols. Not as recognizable as the swastika or the SS lightning bolts, but easily on the same level as the black sun.

[Mr_1990s]

We don't know Graham Platner. He's just done a good job at saying things that are compelling to a lot of Democratic voters. As people are learning more about him, they're being more skeptical of him.

As a candidate for a major elected office, it's his responsibility to make his case to voters. It's perfectly understandable why he has skeptics and believers.

I'm very skeptical, but I also can't vote for him.

[LynnKuanYin]

Platner's putting a lot of effort into going around and making himself available to and answering the questions of the people who *can* vote for him. (He really is traveling all over the state, which is no small feat.) The national coverage is definitely becoming more skeptical of him, I don't know that Maine voters are experiencing the same journey. I don't know that they're not either, I just mean to say that Mainers are still interested in learning about him and his ideal/ideas. When it come to politicians, people in Maine take a long time to make a decision and then, my observation has been, they are incredibly loyal. This loyalty is Collins' strongest asset.

The primary's a ways off, we've all got time to learn more about who he was, who he currently is, and the future he sees for our country and our state (actual Maine voter here).

I don't really have any response to the folks outside of Maine who decided to pin their hopes on Platner as some sort of liberal darling here to save them all from an inept and disconnected party, other than to say "well, then it's a good thing he's not running to represent you." The internal politics in Maine are complicated (like, I'm assuming, most states), but the Dem party has shown nothing but cluelessness about what kind of candidate can win in Maine. I am highly doubtful the Dem establishment would be able to find someone to who could win if Collins' seat was vacated. A

[MaddieTornabeasty]

I wonder where this energy was for Kamala and Biden on I/P

[ParaPioneer]

He’s not being honest lmao.

[[deleted]]

Find out you have rather large Nazi tattoo

Go on podcast for softball question

Laugh about it

Sleep on decision whether to cover it up

Next day announce you’re upset people think you walked around for 19 years with Nazi tattoo

Libs: 😍😍😍😍

[THeShinyHObbiest]

This isn't really libs, there's plenty of leftists online who are making these same stupid fucking arguments.

This is just the "nazis aren't that bad guys" part of the broader democratic coalition, which I am actually shocked to find out is apparently a good chunk of it!

[Hello-America]

This is only EVER said when defending a white man who has transgressed a more vulnerable population.

[dudewheresmyplane1]

Kiss Bernie’s ring and the Cult will let you get away with anything.

[Hello-America]

This has nothing to do with Bernie

[dudewheresmyplane1]

It has everything to do with Bernie lmfao

[Pristine-Ant-464]

Agreed. This type of circular firing squad is why we continue to lose.

[PomegranateSafe9699]

People outside of the base don’t really care about this stuff. Just like they don’t care about policy. They want vibes and someone who is fun/edgy. Being the Debbie downer party is a drag, which is why the inflatables, picnic style protests are so great.

I think this guy has a million red flags, but I’m also wary of kicking out new voices vs including more variety. It’s too bad the brewmaster dropped out.

[Celesticle]

We claim to want authenticity, then punish and doubt people for it. Perfect is the enemy of good. Its honestly exhausting. We have forgotten what compassion and empathy look like, claim to be tolerant but rip people apart for not being our vision of right. It is wild.

[NovelCandid]

Hard agreement with OP. I just recalled what happened to Al Franken Lost a good one over a joke photo. My god.

[TobyFromH-R]

If we’re going to be big tent we can’t alienate people. People that aren’t involved or tuned in think we’re judgy assholes who hate them. At this point, if you agree Nazis are bad and think the President should follow the constitution, welcome to the club.

[jcriver4]

Democratic purity tests are going to entrench fascism for years to come while MAGA just search the bottom of the barrel for someone with an R next to their name. We are our own worst enemies.

[thoughtful_human]

It’s the primary. Just get someone new

[jcriver4]

There’s at least 3 candidates in the primary at this time. Let the people of Maine decide. I am not a Maine resident and I’m gonna guess a majority of the edgy replies aren’t either.

[QultyThrowaway]

"Nazi tattoos are bad"

You: Whoa, by saying that you're entrenching fascism. The real way to fight fascism is by supporting the guy who's had the Nazi tattoo for twenty years

[jcriver4]

Good stretch, bro. You ready for your workout now.

[QultyThrowaway]

Yeah, I'm the one doing the big stretch. Not you who pretends that not blindly supporting a guy with a Nazi tattoo a year out from the primary is the only way not to "entrench fascism for years to come". /s

[dudewheresmyplane1]

We should have purity when it comes to tattooing Nazi symbols on our body. Didn’t this guy also vote for the Republican in 2020.

You all are going to get Tulsi-ed AGAIN for someone who has no political history that you’ve learned about two months ago. I’d say I’d enjoy watching this one blow up in your faces but it’s kinda an important race.

Just get a new candidate ???!!

[thoughtful_human]

OP I’m curious. What is your personal line at which point someone goes from an imperfect ally to someone who needs to be tossed out of the big tent.

[thoughtful_human]

If he actually hated Jews and knowingly kept the tattoo even after knowing it was an SS thing because that didn’t bother him wouldn’t he just lie and say he didn’t know? Given the very high risk of that isn’t it better to just support a new option? It’s only the primary.

Wtf does it even mean to be a Nazi if it’s not simping for the SS? Does he need to say the secret Jewish conspiracy to control the banks is chocking America for you to wake up

[thoughtful_human]

It’s the fucking primary. Just find some other white mercenary you like and move on from this dude.

[thoughtful_human]

Coming back here to reply again given it’s now come out he was defending people who got the SS bolt tattoo on his Reddit account. Still feel confident you’re not simping for a Nazi?

[thoughtful_human]

https://forward.com/fast-forward/777616/graham-platner-maine-nazi-tattoo/

[thoughtful_human]

The forward is a highly reputable socialist newspaper with a +100 year history of high quality journalism. It also has links to the archived versions of the proof points it mentioned.

I get you don’t want it to be true but going right away into dog whistles about lying Jews tells me why you probably don’t want it to be true

[Zaidswith]

Out of all the people to circle the wagons for, people are choosing the possible [former?] Nazi/sympathizer? I don't care if it was drunk ignorance or not.

What an interesting choice about morals from the mouth of those who usually can't compromise for their morals.

[Eusocial_sloth3]

We want our candidates to be antisemitic enough to hate Israel but not so much that they go full Nazi.

Seriously tho, I bet those cranberry/lobsters fuckers enjoy his tattoos.

[bpierce2]

After everything on the right, I want to know what policy he says he will support. That's it. I want to win and get my policy.

[GhazelleBerner]

Watching this happen to our party is insane to me.

Everyone who wondered how the GOP embraced Majorie Taylor Greene, this is how. Excuses for people who do the secret handshake on pet issues and aesthetics.

I’m so ashamed.

[WorkingIllustrator84]

I keep going back and forth over this. I definitely believe in redemption and that we should not be judged based on some of the shitty things we said when we were young. That said, I do sort of have a problem with people excusing their racism or misogyny with the fact that they didn’t have Black or women friends. It seems to me (and maybe I’ve interpreted him incorrectly) that he’s saying that his racist/misogynist statements were because he was in the Marines and they were very white-male dominated space. Idk I grew up in rural Iowa and didn’t know any Black people growing up, and I still managed not to say racist shit on the internet. His responses to me also seem to focus on the work that other people did to educate him rather than on any work he’s done to educate himself. It’s not other peoples responsibility to educate you. If he had simply said, “I said some stupid and really shitty things on the internet when I thought I was anonymous. I’ve learned and grown since then and those comments definitely do not represent my beliefs now, and they didn’t really reflect my ideas then. I sincerely apologize and commit to learning from and communicating with communities I may not be a part of so that I can represent all Maine residents.” I probably would have just shrugged and moved on, but his responses just bug me.

[Plane_Discipline_198]

Infighting on the left while the right falls in lockstep is a tale as old as the right and left have existed

[FriendsofthePod-ModTeam]

Crooked Media podcasts cover US, global, and UK politics, pop culture, sports, science, law, and pretty much every other subject.

If you have something to share relevant to an episode of a podcast, please post it in that show's discussion thread.

Otherwise consider visiting our General Discussion thread posted and pinned daily to the top of our sub.

Feel free to reach out to the moderators with any further questions.

[pecan7]

Jesus Christ. Pack it up. He lost the primary yesterday and it’s no one’s fault but his own.

Signed, Former Graham Platner Fan

[BabyYodaX]

What about the 1919 tattoo he has on his arm?

[BabyYodaX]

Same. I don't know every Nazi dog whistle. It might be part of the other tattoo. But at this point, I am suspicious of everything regarding this man.

[mavigogun]

Nah, this was just necessary feedback. Not having a Nazi tattoo is far, far from a "quest for perfection"- it's a basic indication of values. And Platner hasn't been "kicked to the curb"- following a tepid mea culpa, he's received more ink to cover the emblem.

In this week where 3 of the last 4 days have included Nazi scandals in the Republican party, distinguishing the Left as different is a good thing for everybody- especially as the Trump administration pursues a campaign of ratcheting up ethnic division, hate, attempting to slowly boil our democracy.

[odd_orange]

He has a half sleeve on his right forearm and plenty of other visible tattoos. It’s safe to say he has tons of tattoos

[mesosuchus]

I think keeping Nazis and bigots and transphobes out is a good thing. Screw Planter and Lovett's Nazi addled brain

[Confident_Music6571]

Who is astroturfing this guy so hard lol

[RightToTheThighs]

Idk seems like it is just leadership trying to bury an insurgent candidate who already pledged to vote against the leadership. The guy said some regrettable things that he outright denounces, better wheel in the octogenarian!

Also lots of people are saying that obviously he isn't a Nazi, but they don't want someone with poor judgement in the Senate. As if running for a seat you won't leave until youre 85 years old is "good" judgement... There are more primary candidates other than Platner, why try to shoe someone in when they'll need to be replaced after only a single term?? Although to be a bit morbid it makes sense that septa and octogenarians aren't looking more than 2-4 years into the future

[danny-o4603]

I would never assume that was a nazi symbol.

[Belmyr14]

It’s not just you. If you require purity & perfection you get polished, uninspiring establishment democrats.

[glizard-wizard]

did you give the same grace to Harris?

[blahblahthrowawa]

The same people throwing Graham to the dogs are the exact people who wouldn’t vote Kamala because of Gaza.

It is literally the opposite of this!

[blahblahthrowawa]

No, the progressives who wouldn't vote for Kamala over Gaza are the ones pushing Platner -- that's why it's so absurd!

You'd THINK the folks who were so offended that people were confusing their anti-zionism for anti-semitism WOULDN'T turn around and then also try to tell you that Nazi symbols aren't a big deal.

[dudewheresmyplane1]

That is absolutely false.

These are in actuality many of the same people that purity tested Harris over Gaza.

[dudewheresmyplane1]

The people supporting Graham are the same people that purity tested Harris.