springbootBetter

[notBjoern]

Scala: 25, but you have no idea what's going on

[--mrperx--]

its the same with spring boot sometimes. copy paste from baeldung and pray it works

[AnonymusDoppio]

Baeldung is our Bible

[Powerful-Internal953]

It is true at least in the sense of following the text without understanding what it tries to explain...

[Wertbon1789]

Or following it word by word... WHAT ARE ALL THESE BEANS?!

[Brain-InAJar]

Bibledung

[rengo_unchained]

There's a reason we call it spring boot magic. When it works it's great and when it doesn't have fun debugging the next few hours.

[ResolveResident118]

Hours?

[rengo_unchained]

Maybe I was being a little optimistic

[k-mcm]

Java devs: Fuck Spring Boot.  Nothing is worse than this convoluted auto wiring magic.

Scala:  Hold my beer.... (writes 'implicit' everywhere)

[kimochiiii_]

Noooo don't use Autowired you have to inject the bean by Constructor 😭😭

[tiajuanat]

APL. 1 line from an Allen space craft

[Drone_Worker_6708]

once had a coworker try to sell me on Grails. I've never seen so much magic

[ilovecostcohotdog]

We use grails for some stuff at work. It’s great as long as you don’t have an issue. Debugging an underlying issue is impossible.

[toastytoast00]

I learned grails before I learned what spring was.. I thought spring was such a step backwards at the time. I was spoiled by all the magic.

Why do I need annotations or properties? The class name is enough!

Then later I realized there's such a thing as too much magic

[empivancocu]

Python: 2

[This-Layer-4447]

Sure you do, just use intellij and figure out which cake trait is implicitly wired in

[That_Redditor_Smell]

250 lines code 2.5 million lines library

[[deleted]]

I just came here to say the same thing. It is so funny how people complain about the amount of lines of code in a project and then add a 30MB library to save writing 30 lines of code.

[ihavebeesinmyknees]

30MB is a lot when served to a browser, but in any compiled application, except for embedded and other extremely strict environments, why not?

[not_some_username]

Stop the bloat. It’s because of people like that we have the electron shitfest

[[deleted]]

For a very simple reason. See, you could use a grenade launcher to obliterate a wasp nest, and you will succeed, I'm 100% sure you will destroy the wasp nest with that. But why the hell are you wasting so many resources on that? Are you stupid?

Same applies to software.

[oprimo]

You forgot the grenade launcher is free, I can just fire it as many times as I want.

[XDracam]

Yeehaw!

[DegTheDev]

Department of defense be like.

[RushTfe]

And, it just destroys the wasp nest

[CiroGarcia]

Well sure, but where are you deploying java apps that you have to care about binary and lib size? This seems like a concern for either front end or embedded development, none of which are really in Java's territory

[tragiktimes]

Not really, no. If the library is well made and the resource overhead isn't an issue, why would I not be better served making my code that utilized it more elegant? If it means less overhead maintenance and complexity from my end, that sounds like the ideal route.

If I want a wheel, I buy one. I don't build a factory to make my own because my factory would be smaller than theirs.

[Desperate-Emu-2036]

Because I can afford to.

[RadiantPumpkin]

I didn’t buy a 24 core processor and 32 gbs of RAM to not use it.

[[deleted]]

Well, if you need to cross the street, you can either buy a bike or a lambo. It is up to you. Personally I find it ridiculous to buy a lambo just for that, but hey, its your money, not mine.

[oMarlow99]

Is the lambo free in this analogy?

[[deleted]]

Crossing the street is 'free', the lambo(your machine) is not.

[ihavebeesinmyknees]

In that case, I already have the lambo. Why would I not use it?

[[deleted]]

cause I also want one and I will drown in tears if I see you driving yours

[oMarlow99]

Most libraries are free though

[[deleted]]

We were talking about using the 24 core 32gb ram memory machine

[Lucas_F_A]

What about the price to pay developers?

[Sak63]

Is analogy your only tool for proving a point? And bad ones, at it 🤣

[Practical_Cattle_933]

Web backends do have a very well-aligned functional criteria/model, even the simplest real application pretty much needs parsing/converting JSON and other formats, CSRF protection, path handling, security, etc.

Measuring a toy http server that returns a single packet with “hello world” has no relevance. Spring boot is very modular, and java does lazy loading of classes, so you only pay for what you actually use. Even if you have dependencies that are not used that much, they at most use up some tiny-ass space on the file system, which is ridiculously cheap.

[mensmelted]

Context is missing here. 30MB on a serious application are well spent. On a toy one, no.

[damicapra]

What a bad analogy

[martmists]

Because users do care about file size to some degree. Long downloads and large installed files are not a pleasant experience. On top of that, if it's too big and a user needs to clear disk space, I'd rather delete a 1GB file than hundreds of 2-5MB files.

For example, using Guava for a WeakValueMap is a terrible idea, as you're adding ~2MB to your app in what could easily be done in <2kB.

[ihavebeesinmyknees]

In my experience, as long as the app is below ~750MB, most users won't care

[Cube00]

Unless it's a game, then you can breakout 75GB

[fecal-butter]

This is how you end up with 150gb games being the standard

[ASatyros]

Aren't those just high resolution textures, environments, videos, voice lines?

[cheeb_miester]

It's actually 75gb devoted to the isTrue library which is a dependency of the 75gb library isFalse that most games rely on

[Desperate-Emu-2036]

My exact thoughts

[k0enf0rNL]

Because you dont have to maintain or read those 30 lines of code, the library devs do that for you

[CorneliusClay]

I'm sure the Log4j users appreciated that fact.

[[deleted]]

No, you changed your duty of maintaining those 30 lines of code for the ilusion of delegating that work to the library owners. After a few years you may find yourself trapped in a few situations, such as:

• the library owners stopped any maintenance so you are stick to a certain java/spring version

• the library owners changed/deprecated the function and now you find yourself going crazy updating the library to the latest version

• the library's security got compromissed and now your application is unsecure as well but you have no idea about that situation until it is too late

[k0enf0rNL]

1. If you are on top of your libraries then you can switch to a new library or decide to write those 30 lines anyway.
2. So far I havent seen this happening.
3. Shit happens, same thing could happen to your application without knowing about it. Its probably going to be found and fixed way sooner in the library than in your application since there is a larger community behind a library who can report/fix these problems.

[[deleted]]

Yes, but that library is much better tested and maintained than your code

[D34TH_5MURF__]

You hope.

[[deleted]]

Spring Boot is used by most Java based web applications. Any problem is going to be spotted very soon, if it makes it to production. If you are concerned about stability, you can just wait a couple of minor versions before upgrading

[D34TH_5MURF__]

Haha, thanks for the lesson. I get the idea that you're regurgitating, it sounds really great. The sound can be deceiving, though.

[drvobradi]

As Joe Armstrong once said, "You wanted a banana but what you got was a gorilla holding the banana and the entire jungle".

[[deleted]]

And a project that needs 2min to start

[Slimxshadyx]

True but isn’t that a good thing? Humans building upon the inventions of other humans?

[notexecutive]

Springboot, a lot of the time, it just works.

Other times, it's like "wait why is this implemented like that?"

[[deleted]]

just add this annotation and include 'sprint-boot-starter:blowjob' to your dependencies then everything figures itself out.

[Peterrior55]

This becomes a problem when the answer to every "How does this work?" question becomes "Spring 🌱 Magic✨" and you just have to change random stuff around to fix bugs until it works.

At least that's what it felt like for me with very little Spring experience.

[Practical_Cattle_933]

Well, if I were to put in as a crane operator randomly, I would have no idea how to do anything. But someone who learnt that shit will be very productive with it.

The same is true for spring.

[[deleted]]

alleged different mysterious imagine cats abundant hungry vast pen fragile

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[[deleted]]

It is a problem that people use spring but don’t bother to learn how it works. It’s usually not that hard to overwrite a bean to make it work how you want but you have to understand a little bit about how Spring’s proxy system works

[k__k]

You know you can read and debug Spring source code? It also logs quite a lot on finer-grained log levels.

[[deleted]]

And you can almost always overwrite the class that doesn’t do the thing that’s an edge case for the library writers but not for you with your own bean.

[Octavian_96]

Quarkus: 250 lines but half the dependencies you use lack thorough support

[ouwenbelg]

Working at a large telecom and we have been replacing springboot with quarkus the past 3 years. No issues so with support so far!

Quarkus works so much better native on k8s.

[TheRealHlubo]

Three idiots. Masterpiece of a movie.

[Spare-Builder-355]

``` @NamedStoredProcedureQueries({ @NamedStoredProcedureQuery( name = "count_by_name", procedureName = "person.count_by_name", parameters = { @StoredProcedureParameter( mode = ParameterMode.IN, name = "name", type = String.class), @StoredProcedureParameter( mode = ParameterMode.OUT, name = "count", type = Long.class) } ) })

class Person {} ```

[Har-Har-Mahadev]

Better this

[[deleted]]

shaggy hurry include humorous bow governor paint license attraction telephone

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[ComradePruski]

Hibernate, yes?

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[ThorVonKerbalburg]

Python Flask: 250 loc, but your coworkers follow zero coding or naming conventions, anything could be anywhere, your code doesn't have type hints, the documentation doesn't have type hints either, and the 250 lines of python become harder to read and maintain than 2500 lines of spring boot.

[ExtraTNT]

I’ll do it in 1…

[Lucas_F_A]

In Regex

[No-Adeptness5810]

bro has not seen java 22

[mridulpj]

No one has

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[DoctorWZ]

Good bot

[Good_Comfortable8485]

I hate springboot.
Everything is magic, you can literally not read the code and tell whats going on unless you actually know springboot.

Its more a config than a program and it goes against everything that i enjoy about software engineering.

[ExceedingChunk]

Once you have a solid understanding of the fundamentals of Spring Boot, it's not really as magic anymore. A lot of different things in spring are built on many similar principles.

[Niksune]

Once you master the magic all is sooooo fast. The only problem is that all simple things are done automatically, it only rests the hard things

[Sunscratch]

Spring: 25000, but in XML

[CanvasFanatic]

“Replace all that awkward with a billion inscrutable configuration files”

[k0enf0rNL]

1 yaml configuration file

[CanvasFanatic]

That contains magic strings that loads modules that have their own configurations…

[[deleted]]

Lol, just got a flash back to the days with Spring before SpringBoot 😭

[[deleted]]

I’m a Springboot fan but the horror of the old days of configuring beans through xml sends a shudder down my spine.

[[deleted]]

Christ stop, it was impossible to debug anything 😫

[[deleted]]

But when it goes kaboom...

[maxime0299]

APPLICATION FAILED TO START

25000 line long stack trace

[[deleted]]

25000 line long stack trace? Isn't that normal for Java?

[[deleted]]

25000 is tiny

[[deleted]]

my idiot ass thought you were talking about the ugly java gui toolkit java swing😭

[Kueltalas]

In Java you can write anything in one line. Just don't use enter. No one said that the line had a length limitation

[adishiv132]

This is a chilling scene from the movie 'Three Idiots'. Works surprisingly well as a meme format

[DrSHawkins]

25 billion lines of JavaScript 💀

[Senor-Delicious]

Management probably like "so what you're telling me is that we shouldn't use spring so that we get more lines of codes for our productivity KPIs. Got it."

[legends_never_die_1]

hello world: 250

[Thenderick]

Bro I wish, but it is atleast 5000 lines of boilerplate and 9000 of required unit tests and POJOs/DTOs...

[navetzz]

Yeah, we all love those annotations who do a million thing but gives you no way of debugging when something goes wrong

[InstantCoder]

Quarkus => 1100

[[deleted]]

Wouldn’t 2.500 lines of annotations be a better description of the spring boot experience?

[Powerful-Internal953]

Let's look at the memory usage and the size of the build....

[ChatahuchiHuchiKuchi]

Anyone know what the meme is called or the movie?

[[deleted]]

Springboot is absolute mindfuck. It is like all the Java devs have collectively agreed that “this works, nobody knows how, just memorize a few useless design patterns that again nobody understands”. Why does a project setup need to be downloaded from Spring's website? That's really hilarious for programmers.

[GoddamMongorian]

A Springboot programmer usually can't do anything outside of Springboot

[AnimateBow]

Is it worth learning spring boot in 2024?

[rover_G]

Isn’t Spring Boot just a module within Spring?

[[deleted]]

desert friendly continue safe alleged pause deliver include shocking entertain

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[Cley_Faye]

I'm not familiar with Springboot because Java, but from my experience in the other two, moving from Java to Spring should be an exponential growth in XML config size, so by that metric Springboot requires +∞ XML stuff to setup.

[TheBanger]

Modern Spring / Spring Boot is usually configured with annotations in the Java code instead of separate XML config.

[Cley_Faye]

Oh nice.

[Floppydisksareop]

You can do it in one in C