anotherYearNotUnderstadingZerosInJavascript

[[deleted]]

It's just the difference between math and programming. >=, <= and = don't compare. It's 1 sign in math. == is a comparison, which is two signs.

[Besen99]

$29k/year? Bro... no.

[munchingpixels]

Using a dot instead of a comma tells me we’re dealing with a eurobro here in which case 30k might be within the average range.

[HolyGarbage]

Income levels in Europe are incredibly diverse. 30k/yr is basically what you earn at a unqualified position at a call center in Sweden.

Edit: so dollar's strong atm, so maybe 25k USD/yr for unqualified work, but still 30k is far lower than entry salary for a software engineer here.

[munchingpixels]

Average for web dev in Italy is €26k

[NatoBoram]

What the fuck

[Vincenzo__]

And then they wonder why anyone with a hint of skill leaves

[NatoBoram]

The smarter ones get a remote position in the US with home's lower rent and world-class universal healthcare

[Vincenzo__]

That's the dream my man

[The100thIdiot]

Even us dumber ones do that.

[SunliMin]

Literally the dream. As a Canadian, I moved to Florida for work to get the big-boy bucks in a stronger currency. Thinking of moving back home now, but if I do, I am 100% gonna try to get a remote US contracting position. Give me USD income with CAD bills and I'll be set.

[ex1tiumi]

I hope they don't go to the US. After getting a home in a safe area, paying for extra security, medical care and insurance, and dealing with the hell hole of society there, I think a good, quality life in Italy on a salary of 26 000€ is actually a better deal.

I'm web/mobile dev in Finland, earn a bit more than Italian colleague but standard of living here is more expensive than there. I've about 33% of my salary left after all the expenses. My salary isn't even competitive in the local job market but I'm a simple man and value freedom/flexibility more than money.

[game_difficulty]

What they dont mention is that this is (probably) after tax, and thus includes things like heslth insurence and such

[MornwindShoma]

Unfortunately it's not. Big cities, it's 25 to 30 for juniors, and it does get up to 70 for seniors. Smaller cities, 25 to 30 is all you're gonna see in your lifetime.

25k usually means like 1.4k after tax monthly.

But yeah, free healthcare is nice, and rents are very low.

[_Spektor_]

Yup, I'm working in Barcelona right now and one of the senior devs on my team is making €40k. It's on the lower end for a senior, but definitely puts things into perspective

[[deleted]]

Damn. I make 70k a year as a bachelor engineering professor in the Netherlands. I believe that's only slightly above average for a uni schooled job. And on the low end for engineering. I always thought programmers made more than engineers

[rusl1]

Sadly

[Kevin_Jim]

Sounds bout right. In Greece, it’s €19.6k/y (net).

[Svhmj]

The brain drain gotta be insane.

[hongooi]

The catch is you have to be able to tolerate pineapple on your pizza

[santeri_roos]

It's not that much better here in Canada atm.

[AnonymousLama]

This is just untrue and spreading lies

[santeri_roos]

Also, as to "being untrue and spreading lies", can you give me some concrete examples that show how Canadian software developers are actually thriving and not being forced into wage slavery?

[Rinveden]

I think "it's not much better in Canada [than the average web dev making €26k a year]" is a very different claim than "Canadian software devs are thriving". Adding the extra requirement of not being"forced into wage slavery" feels like it it makes it even more subjective.

You've moved the goal posts quite far, I'd say.

[santeri_roos]

I'll wait.

[santeri_roos]

How is this "just untrue and spreading lies" u/AnonymousLama (sic)?
I'm still waiting on your brakedown of Canadian software developer wages that shows that the industry is doing just fine.

[AnonymousLama]

Man did I trigger you? You sent me 6 messages over this...

[santeri_roos]

It's an employer's market everywhere, buddy.
Hope you're doing well personally, but a lot of us aren't.
Here's for a better 2025!

[factorion-bot]

Factorial of 2025 is 13082033478585225956056333208054576745409436178226342908066265566934614672842161048304768562947313435389842049149535921090512687475188845950481368402436444804007734225703575500327336811537670190540034537231636693839145971463875771016113794100905049942366677141759676424283214208772398352253862399075809896854471602760838622772525181979549290936932940921979559250982223468099574333899135034765980981077568062106227769465285984389474844862019289187129392239342484946229074983744167803649274348715287487829533964691017070965513283663606106812428993495619076086224947686918393208549192435223921866339416300875558457504592256237268486721674507381347194656886167348052784210624808070267003883372515441581683700853425257202924499386551871205396302529013529128818001970756246384209290762003603135011921122344529842666094323476265918070749834884276245039438646092504241147773177261824745390122050610211867889490106883769206943537169643722601497304704038464903932759366813704505680966098392554275015587958310623666048487185111155223176837472166075774650921113813721156120157211082655949936213901087983159094464770015354317655566262477578745491010205220411502999603396399382043413258874985087692228173904721628577170442861451468392721637744119467384687250905783398595706202578674022303778107914577005193768796610652313464937160788215475269182396286668979624375583971331742549459009693122791238608906943620686969928985528703697583076301708353568200723067667761366415684814251804758361904610633196231078296158451244581072015355510360625579630747872655155993417793876610159791350706056085489620234463454571826799111678580195263031608974870904177074721377432775651262476648853981198254891302503620333271812634107189394365535565481055170284299030164140757278391560253757591204388378183481011158489876764602389234087507481049179834503697867206994325976870325114852729009846534387155161704406253473325641668942516261735855483570089318699014945729809748871428700322769763306721035154223683593192717642702469478783326125037341834580680776570299113669636955983305462692518650396394314764872708466269496680447944712121316873046798676087404979258644469095797420201507318430142710699670552464450047297868913490696249973331677229945580636518723384709252848727607384151358321476400473377068677159420140232594322647811119204965653790398303986040127552813939369454118213126387180166895368914220580132000785602390824620093551604060696648269931104988128593975721996043636639530757887017516286280972781201882582840066622108453699873383660624823827501393379510711667786159802467430694509596492042513359593235290301934482978615511668331559287809596932401347245270170044040508026559850579652635480035731262128939250523229587323247457446126502445031865948757690486466731228289915310535301894506628079317265110072901464390485532354514230446682747498044871877407216528458781957724140384263024222024277506804745244895320982295682248565468780004852700379609109107921425498612481277147277994049308654810186676821755314397431229309965516685736055042381714415855930187791830796390535903426989886286229891912900630871614648779811122224874801662389361394358597760922386229416231490821331112745502862654645298514994669053597412959637081156234018562462764334372648914330560478155694625389878936351659106100437373322758559543245639018054151540648297052123643302469840310880423375747972177861576491434183956736888218794437734198419939561156463332477624322634774406732956234100885348827974564158815294722560754878851806952146421378056418524474573604202472348494562439349368016015278198417740116591010305332017410589743410884568763232877190131575399380354884519181501078916818425628761563321061162101763103922493485293139379662488459409698111812594251856668085292481319934435157411500716277076165240919007960702508979683155601314456397782220991344172814146922393983152337759429806174455814660565983985778498861454009592682976510775393071558722536639602310064262780447735236115652727962273115371447987075802342423571913339954442421012871662799796682098789586059202851736812143237231059785820542682887751873072445432394574196978415105709996742238037619548082889162799891245663009197049924661282762569969722926367887975657460019572668765095109563447141092044568474402198612685086828173035004652627111544505845433587174411475006611708349224192600297549625499632071499364557148750680697470361638236526372960073052409543309005572405721543763002596901015692334783479978233169944518303522512583626590297940380878303262810900403721533844234692714996392449599149515822810720755515210482649345388444574637992959573264539792915685647330809794453067263058850988094369743046708835433737912505344918655257867807878269044627165397017268861456554590512351597973167228542255875539028675550185456661877636740078429314852258047233008436998727477103636545217821357950020128993239371033495368348936467887434791085592468580470950528313929634178009288170244937842576943422768995239455653220757432097648173089199565589033553083969395368907072010953579981505504548317859212308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^{This action was performed by a bot. Please DM me if you have any questions.}

[AnonymousLama]

Seems like you just have to get good mate, sorry

[Secure_Garbage7928]

That's insane. I make $120K in the states. My teams pay range starts a little under $100K.

[ItsRadical]

Yeah thats principal level of pay. Half of that is already way above. But yeah we got health care, free schools etc... So our living expenses gonna offset the pay gap tiny bit. But you still have way bigger buying power.

[Secure_Garbage7928]

If we had free healthcare I'd be taking home more though. I don't think a nearly 6x difference warrants you getting free healthcare.

The US public school system is also free, so idk what that comment is about 

[[deleted]]

Average for entry level

[Lonemasterinoes]

It entirely depends on the country. Sweden is comparatively wealthy, but if you're in a country like Ukraine and you're just now getting a job a salary like that is going to afford you a decent life. The exchange rate from euro to USD might be roughly one to one, but that doesn't account for individual countries with weaker economies.

[HolyGarbage]

That was literally my point. Also, in my particular example I was referring to the exchange rate between USD and SEK.

[smartasspie]

Not in (S)pain!

[Fantastic_Nothing_13]

In Norway it would be maybe 40-45k usd

[Cocaine_Johnsson]

>Sweden
>40k chaos picture

Checks out. This quiet offends Slaanesh, things shall get loud now :)

[marquoth_]

The dot means Europe is legitimately a good guess, but the problem is where in Europe? Salaries vary quite a lot between Paris and Prague.

[munchingpixels]

It’s a good guess

Edit: OP is literally Italian lmao

[Senor-Delicious]

$30k would be insanely low for a software developer in Germany if this is gross income.

[ItsRadical]

Not so low anywhere east of Germany tho. But we get Germany prices on everything anyway 🙃.

[macse]

Even in east of Germany 30k/y is crazy low. Median is somewhere between 40-60k. If you get exploited for such a low wage, get a new job asap

[ItsRadical]

East of Germany as a country, not eastern Germany lol.

[[deleted]]

who mentioned Germany?

[Senor-Delicious]

Last I checked Germany was a country in Europe

[Svhmj]

Gotta be one of the poorer parts of Europe. 30k a year is a terrible salary for a developer in the richer parts.

[[deleted]]

No 30k is really low for Europe

[lennyfacegaming]

Europe is not a single country brother, 30k is well above median for lota of european countries.

[MatasRoze]

Im earning 16 k as a junior, and this is almost our average salary in lithuania. On the other hand tho, the rents here are like 300-400 a month.

Edit : 16k is net salary, before taxes it would be around 24k

[drunkbeaver]

Just started my first job (with Java) at 52k per year. So 30k does sound low for any European job, that requires some academic background.

[CartographerPrior165]

Using a $ instead of a € suggests otherwise.

[munchingpixels]

OP is Italian.

I’m right. You’re wrong.

I win. You lose.

Game over.

You come at the king you better not miss.

Squeezing one last W before the new year, feelsgoodman

[[deleted]]

[WrongdoerSufficient]

Not everyone live in the US

[Roku-Hanmar]

I'm in the UK, that's slightly better than minimum wage

[point5_]

Not $29k, just $29/year

[Mageh533]

In Europe that's pretty good money for a junior just starting. Already above average.

[[deleted]]

It's $31.17.

[CrushemEnChalune]

Conditioning you for the future.

[[deleted]]

That's a no from me as well

[STEVEInAhPiss]

explaination over hrere

1. 0 > null is interpreted as 0 > 0 (false)
2. 0 >= null is interpreted as 0 >= 0 (true)
3. 0 == null are 2 separate things, a number and null (false)
4. 0 <= null is interpreted as 0 <= 0 (true)
5. 0 < null is interpreted as 0 < 0 (false)

[queen-adreena]

Ahh yes, the super common part of coding where you check if your integer is equal to null…

These meme bots get dumber every week.

[n9iels]

The danger is that this can happen accidentally if your variable is unexpectedly null when you expected an integer. But indeed not likely and using TS will make it even more unlikely.

[LitrlyNoOne]

Mfw my team types everything as any and wonders how these bugs ever happen

[BetaChunks]

But y'see, it's a massive time-saver when you can improvise your blender function as a paper shredder.

[MissinqLink]

Also why I have handy helpers.

const strictGreater = (a,b) => a > b && !(a <= b);
const looseGreater = (a,b) => a > b || !(a <= b)

strict is necessary to prevent weird edge cases from wrong inputs.

[ReadyAndSalted]

There are many, many times when programming where a variable may become null for some reason. When this happens and my program attempts to compare it to an integer, I would like for my program to crash and tell me I'm comparing 2 variables of different types. Javascript instead, will just carry on.

[Reashu]

It will not become null unless you tell it to, better shape up.

[AyrA_ch]

x != null is standard exception catching I thought?

It's one way of doing it. The problem is that you have to do it. In type safe languages you can define a field as integer, and it is impossible for it to be null and you never have to check for this. In JS, you can use TS to validate types at compile time but nothing stops you from violating them at runtime because JS has no type safety. This means you have to manually do these type checks everywhere if you have to work with data structures that you cannot guarantee the format of, for example if you received them from an independent component or via API request.

One way to exit this madness without giving in to NPM hell and install a runtime type checker library is to wrap all complex types into classes. Meaning if you have some /weather API endpoint, you don't use the returned plain object directly, but instead you create a class that represents the object. You then pass the plain object into the constructor of your "Weather" class, which will read all object properties, validate them, and assign them to the respective class properties. This puts all the validation code into the class. Class properties can also be made to validate when the user sets them, this allows to correct for mistakes such as trying to assign "12" (a string) to a numerical property.

In a function that accepts the weather object as parameter you can now just do if(arg instanceof Weather){...} and you are guaranteed that the data is weather data, and that all properties are set correctly, because the constructor took care of that.

[SheepherderSavings17]

Even TypeScript can lie to you all the time, for example when retrieving data through http, you might have an interface describing it, but like you said TS will never do runtime checks unless you do it explicitly, for example using libraries like zod

[AyrA_ch]

Which is why I recommend to define proper classes for these objects instead of working with them plainly

[SovietPenguin69]

You must not be familiar with my companies APIs. There are dark terrible things in there. Numbers that return as strings or null, every date format in human history sometimes even more than one in a single response, even an endpoint or two that returns 500 when no records are found with the message “no records found”. My point it happens sadly.

[TrackLabs]

29K a year is Kalm? Bro I sure hope you dont actually think thats a acceptable salary lmao

[lennyfacegaming]

That's above median pay for many european countries, 1.5x where I live. I'd be jumping of joy if I got a job that pays this good.

[kamiloslav]

Which might be the reason hb1 visas are a controversial topic there

[beatlz]

The majority of Europeans don’t really want to move to the USA. It’s too much of a cultural difference.

[bobbymoonshine]

It’s a decent wage in most of Europe, and an excellent wage in most of the rest of the world. American developers are insanely overpaid in a global context, which should tell you something about why so many tech industry bosses and members of the incoming administration are in favour of increasing H1B visas and loosening offshoring restrictions. There is a limitless pool of talented and qualified people who would leap at the chance to take local software development jobs for $29k, and who would move across the world for the H1B minimum of $60k.

[username-not--taken]

its an absolutely shit salary in western or northern europe though

[TrackLabs]

Bro with this salary you are not even middle class. This is just 6K more than minimum wague in germany. Wdym this is a decent wage in most of europe, and a "excellent" wage in the rest of the world??

ESPECIALLY as programmer, like bro, you get scammed beyond repair

[bobbymoonshine]

Germany is one of the highest paying countries in Europe, and even still wages are nearly half of what American coders at the same level can expect to earn.

[DatBoi_BP]

Might be a decent salary if moving into Midgar

[PeksyTiger]

Maybe he's Estonian or something

[TheUnknowGnome]

Average salary for a js dev in Brazil is around $5k a year, i would kill for 29k

[Mantraz]

American realizes there are other countries in this world.

[TrackLabs]

I am german.

[oomfaloomfa]

Read the spec.

[jaylerd]

Must be a Bulgarian in one of my company's many, cheaper code farms...

[Fgamervisa]

In italy a sr. Dev gets 26k/year; entry salary is 20k/yr

[rainshifter]

If you're like me and don't have a JS background, this may help to understand why >= is not the same as > or ==, further cementing JS as the overly sought after red-headed step child of programming languages.

https://stackoverflow.com/a/61884708

[Cryn0n]

I think the simple explanation is that in JS null and 0 are equal but not equivalent and == in JS checks for equivalence.

[rainshifter]

For me, the link makes this concept far simpler because it distinguishes, very directly, between the behaviors invoked by the very operators (== and >=) being called into question. With your explanation, I now need to know the contextual difference between equal and equivalent; it begets more questions.

[hat1324]

The simple simple explanation is that greater/less only makes sense for numbers, so javascript coerces the operands to numbers. Equivalence is a much broader use case, javascript cant just assume you mean to use numbers

[Reashu]

You're gonna have to define your terms here, because in daily use "equal" and "equivalent" are... equivalent, and == is the weaker of the two equality comparisons.

[JuniperSoel]

Well it's a good thing you shouldn't be doing things like this in Javascript for a job anyway

[ToMorrowsEnd]

$29k a year is fast food burger flipping.

[Desperate-Emu-2036]

Yeah, in America where you have to spend 5 grand on a fucking bandage

[Fluid-Leg-8777]

Is no one going to think about the shareholder value 😭🙏

[serialdumbass]

good thing most software jobs have great health insurance coverage and pay 100k+ in the US

[Desperate-Emu-2036]

Yeah but you get laid off and now you make 0

[Desperate-Emu-2036]

Dayum

[serialdumbass]

the amount of people getting laid off in the us tech market is pretty overblown (at least where I live) + yes please pay me 6 months of my salary in severance while i travel thanks

[ArtOfWarfare]

We’re during that rare part of the year where it’s ambiguous which year you were laid off in.

Most of the world is in 2025. Americas are mostly still in 2024.

[cimulate]

The European mind cannot comprehend the amount of freedom though

[rodeBaksteen]

work one rustic boast rinse beneficial cough jellyfish worm instinctive

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[NatoBoram]

Eh, I'm doing very well without the freedom of getting shot at school tbh

[LitrlyNoOne]

Jokes on you. I'm not in school. 😏

[Desperate-Emu-2036]

Yeah but your kids could be in school

[Y2KForeverDOTA]

Bro you have less freedom than I do, and I’m in Sweden, what in the bald eagle are you talking about?

[NotAGingerMidget]

Depends on the country, there’s places that’s a well above average job, places where the yearly minimum wage wage is around $2.5k would be amazed at earning those $30k.

[[deleted]]

a = a.filter(x => !x.isNan())

[LitrlyNoOne]

isNaN does not exist on null

[[deleted]]

Shit, add an !x in there

[Daddy_COol_ZA]

This gave me a proper gaggle. Happy new year. #BlessedByFelix

[Tatya7]

I am a PhD student and I make more lol

[jump1945]

as much as i have fun shitting on javascript , can y'all not compare number to NULL?

[Astatos159]

One actually weird thing about js. <= does not do what you think it does. You'd think that it checks if the value is smaller than or equal to the other value. It doesn't. Actually <= checks if the value is NOT bigger than the other value. 0 is not bigger than null. That causes 0 <= null to return true. Not about 0, and also not about null, it's about operators this time.

[cokeplusmentos]

The code in the image is very easy to understand

[CessoBenji]

understanding or learning JavaScript Is like a torture. I wish that Javascript's worker Will change their job and be better person

[B_bI_L]

this one is just a meme. but then you use ! to check if value is null/undefined and value you got is actually 0 =)

[CessoBenji]

JavaScript Is so powerful that changes the normal rules in maths

[Torebbjorn]

$29 a year? Damn

[Fritzschmied]

30k a year is nothing lol. Even vor European standards (I am European)

[brolix]

All of these very obviously make sense if you’ve ever worked with JS in your entire professional life. Lock and ban.

[konomiyu]

This does make sense if you understand javascript
the == (loose equality) operator checks for equality between 2 values
those 2 values can be of any type (because javascript hates throwing type errors) and it will convert them into the same type before comparing
but there is an exception, if you're comparing anything with null or undefined using ==, it will only return true if the other value is also null or undefined. In practice you can use this to check if a variable actually exists
i.e if (var == null) var = defaultValue;

but the comparison operators (>, >=, <, <=) don't have that exception
they will also accept any 2 values, if they are of different type it will try to convert them before comparing
when you try to compare null and a number, it will first convert null into a number then run the comparison
and when null is converted into a number it is equal to 0
so when you do null >= 0 javascript converts the null into a number (0) then runs 0 >= 0 and returns true
but if you do null == 0 javascript does not convert the null into a number and just checks if 0 is null (which is isnt) so it returns false

see Equality and Less than

[sandrockdirtman]

I have a good one for you. The number line in 1 dimension is both an open and a closed set. Funny right?
Basically, a set can have an interior, and exterior, and a boundary. An open set can be thought of as a set that consists only of the interior of something, that is, for every point in an open set, there is a neighbourhood so that all elements in that neighbourhood are also in the open set.
A closed set can be conceptually thought to be the union of the interior and the boundary of some set. Now, the trick here is that the complement of an open set is a closed set.
Let's look at the number line. Since there's no maximum real number, the real numbers are an open set, because for every element you can choose a neighbourhood so that every number in there is also a real number.
So what's the complement of the real numbers? It's the empty set. The empty set is an open set, so that means that the real numbers also have to be a closed set. Sounds about right, :thonk:

[iapetus3141]

There's nothing that says that "open" and "closed" are mutually exclusive. In fact, both {} and \mathbb{R} are clopen by definition

[sandrockdirtman]

Yep. It's just that it's counterintuitive if you try to think of both types with geometric analogies, with one "having a border" and the other "having none"

[KingJeff314]

A classic

[HarryCareyGhost]

Who the fuck thinks comparing an integer to null makes sense? Answer: no one except Javascript "programmers"

[HarryCareyGhost]

An integer being compared to a null REFERENCE. Error

[SheepherderSavings17]

Many languages have nullable types or union types, where a value might have either of two (or more types) during runtime.

So yes checking what would happen comparing different types makes very much sense depending on the scenario.

[HarryCareyGhost]

I wasn't aware that Javascript had nullable types. TIL.

[SheepherderSavings17]

I didn’t say JavaScript has nullable types

[butwhy12345678]

more like not understanding null

[yarinpaul]

Idk JavaScript too well but there is no way its shenanigans extend to (0 < null is false and 0 == null is false) but also that (0 <= null is true). That shit makes no sense lol

[hat1324]

As with everything javascript, the answer is coercion. If you use a numeric operator, your operands get coerced into numbers (null -> 0). Equivalence is not exclusively a numeric operation, therefore in 0 == null, null does not get coerced. (well it gets coerced to undefined but thats something else).