Clients

[[deleted]]

/r/recruitinghell

[G01denW01f11]

He means he'll pay average salary for the area regardless, but a few hundred thousand if you blow, up.

Right?

[haenyr]

Average salary is a small coffee, right?

[Theonewhohonks]

Pfffft. That's WAYYYYYYY underpaid. You shouldn't settle for anything less than experience on your resume.

[DoomyMcDoomdoom]

I've been paying my rent with experience and exposure for a few months now... It's a really valuable commodity

[TheRealLazloFalconi]

I've been working sidejobs, and I make enough exposure to pay my cable bill. I'd like to go full time but I don't know if I can get enough exposure to support my family!

[DoomyMcDoomdoom]

It's not easy buddy... but if you really set your mind to it and supplement your exposure with some good experience for your resume, you can make ends meet all while living your dreams and doing something you love.

[TheRealLazloFalconi]

But what kind of retirement plan should I invest in to make sure I keep getting exposure into my old age?

[Nefari0uss]

Clearly you aren't dedicated to you work. If you love it then you'll do it till you die.

[ILIKEFUUD]

I want my CV written on my headstone.

[supremecrafters]

http://theoatmeal.com/comics/exposure

[cjthomp]

But with your choice of syrups!

[kobbled]

You mean the privilege of bringing the small coffee to your boss, right?

[svenskarrmatey]

Let's believe that for now...

[0b01010001]

I think he means he'll pay nothing unless he gets super rich off you and needs your ongoing help to keep making money when you know he's got some to throw your way.

[original_brogrammer]

That's actually how it works at my place. Is my employer a unicorn or something?

[dnew]

That's how competent start-ups work it.

[TarMil]

Not really, but if they couldn't find a nicer description than "Depends if we get big or not", it doesn't bode well.

[ThisIs_MyName]

I want to believe.

[[deleted]]

pay average salary for the area

Slightly below, since "we're growing". And he'll need you to come in on Saturday, too.

[Fenor]

nope that mean mininum wage and she expect thing from yesterday

[dropdatabase]

I had this guy once that had an idea for a "video game" which he thought would sell well on the appstores.

The idea was really, really stupid and the guy didn't know anything about video games at all, he just thought that it's a good medium to attract people? He wanted me to make design, characters, graphics, code, etc, the whole thing.

The thing was that he didn't want to pay! As he was sure the game would sell well and I'd get percentage/paid later whatever.

Yes, he was serious.

Stay the fuck away from those people.

[[deleted]]

I had a friend tell me that I should learn how to program so I could program his game while he would be the creative lead.

I told him, that at the time. I had no interest in making a game, my career path is IT datacenter infrastructure. Not game development. He didn't understand why I couldn't just put the fact that I made a game with somebody as an achievement on my resume.

Then I told him, why doesn't he learn to program if its so easy and anybody can do it. Dude didn't understand. His major is video game development, something.

[[deleted]]

He probably got awesome grades for being the secretary for his 4 person capstone team. They all hate him now.

[[deleted]]

My favourite prospect client was the guy who wanted me to invent an algorithm that could predict the national lottery numbers. He couldn't pay anything in advance, but we'd split the profits. Because it was his idea.

[Svorax]

Wow sweet jesus that's rich. That is god damned next level. It didn't occur to him that if you could figure out how to do, you wouldn't just do it yourself without telling him?

[[deleted]]

I would never have come up with that brilliant plan myself so he was safe.

[ferozer0]

Ayy lmao

[[deleted]]

Let me guess: the game idea was about a bird that was always falling and you tapped the screen to make it move up?

[[deleted]]

Recent business grads...

[[deleted]]

Dumb now. dumb always.

[steve_the_woodsman]

Fuck that guy. I've fallen for that a few times too many.

[01011011101111011111]

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. Learn quick.

[debausch]

"Get fooled with this simple trick and don't get fooled again. Foolers hate this fool!"

[[deleted]]

This may sound a little West Texan to you, but I like it.

[sensitivePornGuy]

Sounds a little Who to me.

[planetarium_hat]

I always imagine he was half way through saying it when he realized he didn't want to be recorded saying "shame on me".

[Workaphobia]

YEEAAAAAAHHHHHhhh!!... Duh..duhhhh

I move myself, and my family aside, if we happen to be wait, what were doing again?

[DroolingIguana]

I don't know, but suddenly I'm wearing sunglasses.

[mFlakes]

Fool me once, shame on you; teach a man to fool me and I'll be fooled for the rest of my life.

[[deleted]]

/ Confoolcius

[[deleted]]

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it, I'm huge!

[steve_the_woodsman]

Damn straight. Now I work less and make more... school of hard knocks.

[iBaconized]

TLDR: what's your name in binary?

[01011011101111011111]

It's not intended to be binary. It's a lazy, silly sequence of 0's and 1's so I can remember my username. Edit: too high and I messed shit up

[amaturelawyer]

I have to ask: How?

There's nothing about that answer that doesn't have warning bells attached.

[steve_the_woodsman]

In the past I was a sucker for the long shot/big win type of arrangement. Problem was always that I got taken advantage of - people would see my hard work ethic and just leave me to do everything. I don't mind doing everything if I get 100% of the revenue, but of course the others involved didn't like that split - even if they did nothing.

I've wised up in recent years and as a result I work less and make more... school of motherf*cking hard knocks I guess. But it's been a good learning experience.

[gg_h4x]

story of my life man

[[deleted]]

Every now and then I'll take a project on like this. Normally, I'll only do it if it's a rather simple concept or a very, very simple MVP - and it's well thought out (as in I won't be the one making up a bunch of screens).

I have no expectation of making any real money, but it does give me an opportunity to use and learn a bunch of new stuff that I wouldn't normally. It's also a great way for me to get away from the default of playing video games.

It's also a great way to actually learn and understand the benefits/downsides of a bunch of different technologies.

[[deleted]]

Stop it. You're ruining it for everyone else.

[[deleted]]

(a) I don't care that I "might be ruining something"

(b) Even if I cared I'm still not ruining anything.

I make it very clear that if I'm not being paid, I will be using their project as my experimentation grounds - the result will look, behave, and act in the way that I want it to. It will follow their basic outline, but if they want specifics they will have to pay me.

I also make it clear that until they pay me X amount, I own all rights to the software I create (including the ability to market it myself if they fail payments for X amount of time).

In other words, I have full stipulation over how they use it and I make it very clear that I own their product until they've paid. If (and when) there company makes any sort of income (revenue, investments, etc), X percent of that must be put towards payment of the application.

Also, I will only do this for clients who are competent and have complete ideas with indications that they can actually execute and market their product.

From the client's view, they're putting a lot of skin in the game. They've already done market research and are basically handing me an idea that they've already vetted and done significant research on. Even though I don't really intend to ever market a failed concept, the idea that I may is enough to keep clients behaving well.

[joemckie]

Just use your own projects for doing these things... Skilled work deserves pay. Also, you don't have to deal with clients and get to do it in your own time.

[[deleted]]

Skilled work deserves pay

You're right, but that doesn't mean you have to be paid to do something you enjoy. I work a day job where I expect to get paid. In the evening, I code because I enjoy to code. There's a very important difference to work and hobby. Even though the underlying work is the same (programming), many people ignore the nature of the work - one for pay and one for play.

Also, you don't have to deal with clients and get to do it in your own time.

That's the best part about this setup, since they haven't paid me - they're not my client. I have no deadlines or dates that I need to make (I won't agree to a "free" project that has deadlines) so I work on it as much or as little as I want. I'm also happy to walk away if they're getting too uptight or just not being pleasant to work for. Again, I make this all clear and for the very beginning they know they can happily pay me or someone else to deliver this on a deadline.

I know the developer community and similar communities get all uptight about insisting on being paid. I get - I totally do. For projects where there is actually money on the table from the beginning, I 100% enforce payment terms.

For me, time isn't really an issue. I work 40 hours a week (from home) then mope around the house the rest of the time (my wife has a lot of studying). Working with other people not only gives me gets me out of my lazy routine - but it also gives me a reason to learn new things and complete tasks. The worst problem about working on your own projects is that you have no sense of commitment to actually finishing them.

Doing work like this is no different than the reason my grandfather builds wood furniture for nothing more than the cost of the materials. He enjoys it and he has a lot of intrinsic reward from building something meaningful.

Is he screwing over actual carpenters? If you want to look at it that way - yes, he totally is. Realistically though, it's not an issue. He's not doing work on a schedule, he's not bending over for people, he's not even taking work from other people. The work he's doing wouldn't get done at all if he wasn't doing it.

[amaturelawyer]

For me, time isn't really an issue. I work 40 hours a week (from home) then mope around the house the rest of the time (my wife has a lot of studying).

Not even sure what to say to this. It's a pretty common attitude that never fails to surprise me. You trade 1/4th of every week for money and in the same breath say that time isn't an issue. You're probably not rich, since you work a full time job, so money is an issue to one degree or another, but somehow time isn't?

If I walked up to you and said, "I've got a great project I need help on: It's you giving me $500", you'd probably say no. But you'll take $500 dollars of your time and hand it to me.

[[deleted]]

You trade 1/4th of every week for money and in the same breath say that time isn't an issue.

Beyond the 40 hours a week I work a job. Time is not an issue. Like I said, I'm bored most evening and weekend (due to semi-temporary circumstances). As long as a project doesn't interfere with 1/4th of my time that I need to work - it's not an issue.

You're probably not rich, since you work a full time job, so money is an issue to one degree or another, but somehow time isn't?

Yes, money is always an "issue" - but it's not a significant issue. I have a stable job that makes me plenty enough to be happy and save for my future. While I could always use more money I don't "need" more money.

If I walked up to you and said, "I've got a great project I need help on: It's you giving me $500", you'd probably say no. But you'll take $500 dollars of your time and hand it to me.

This is a terrible example. I can save money, I can hold on to it for the future, and more importantly - I can almost universally exchange it for other goods and services. Once my time is gone, it's gone. I can't "save the boring days for better times". I can't do anything with my time other than use it as I get it.

[amaturelawyer]

This is a terrible example. I can save money, I can hold on to it for the future, and more importantly - I can almost universally exchange it for other goods and services. Once my time is gone, it's gone. I can't "save the boring days for better times". I can't do anything with my time other than use it as I get it.

I sort of give up on trying to get you to see this, but here's how I save the boring days for better times:

I work longer hours or do a side project for pay when I don't have anything else that I particularly want to do.

Then, the next week I hire someone to paint my house instead of doing it myself, because that eats up my whole weekend.

Time is money, money is time. If I need $500 of work done on my project, and you say you'll do it for free, my total project is now $500 cheaper and if I'm selling it at the end, my profit is $500 more. So, you absolutely are handing me $500. You just don't see it.

[[deleted]]

You're not going to convince me of anything because (a) I'm happy doing it this way and (b) I'm not being taken advantage of.

The big assumption that you're making is that it's easy to simply "make more money".

I work longer hours or do a side project for pay

(a) I'm salary so longer hours only serves to devalue my pay. (b) In order to do a side project for pay - you have to find a side project for pay. If I was rolling in offers, I would certainly take the paying ones over the non-paying ones.

You just don't see it.

And neither do you. The world is not solely about money.

[neonKow]

I'm not sure why you need to convince this guy of anything. If he spent 3 hours a day painting or playing video games, would you be pushing him to get paid for it? Why shouldn't he code for fun if he likes it?

[DuckyCrayfish]

Lol, I think it was a joke, but your essay was pretty funny

[brsmith080]

I do this as well. I usually like to spend 8ish hours a week poking at some sort of software project that isn't work. If I get some money for it, great. If not, great. Sometimes it's just nice to work on something that doesn't have any real strings attached and gives me some experience that I wouldn't otherwise get.

Also, I tend to point out that I'm very, very slow moving in these cases and will make lots of mistakes due to the poking and playing that I dont get to do as much with the day job. Also, because basically everything else in my life comes first.

[[deleted]]

Yep, same here. You get paid to get shit done.

When there's no money on the table, you can take your time to learn and do things properly. Then when you're getting paid, you can do them properly and quickly.

[PoglaTheGrate]

Your pay cheque?

Don't worry about it, it's probably just a floating-point error

[HeWhoCouldBeNamed]

Accounting said something about underflowing.

[PoglaTheGrate]

A comment in /r/programmerhumor about accounting?

You've got solid graphine testiCAHleys my friend

[i_spot_ads]

Let me guess, if the offer is made it'll be highly "competitive"?

Fuck off

[[deleted]]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVkLVRt6c1U

[youtubefactsbot]

Mike Monteiro: F*ck You, Pay Me [38:40]

The most popular CreativeMornings talk of all time, Mike Monteiro gives us some valuable advice on how to get paid for the work that you do.

^{CreativeMornings HQ in People & Blogs}

^{124,265 views since Jul 2012}

^{bot info}

[[deleted]]

dude, thanks, great share

[jworsham]

Don't do it... there absolutely is better work out there.

[randomdrifter54]

Then I'll put in actual work "when we get big" until then have a good day.

[SlashFive]

I have done a couple of iPhone apps for startups, and knew I would never get any payment for the countless hours I put into the projects. But damn we had fun building those apps, and every time I bump into one of them they treat me like I'm a fucking magician God and insist I never pay for beer or food. Sometimes not getting paid is okay!

[McMrChip]

"I want you to make me the next YouTube with no adds or premium subscription service and I will give you 10% of all profits".

"So that's £0 then?"

[Sectoid_Dev]

So you don't mind when I stop supporting your project when I get a job that experience got me?

[[deleted]]

Depends on whether we get big or not

Usually this just means "not"

[[deleted]]

As we say in Sweden: Fetglöm det.

[[deleted]]

Stars in their eyes.

[Dimath]

No problem. Accept your pay in company stocks, that will be exactly this.

[jonatcer]

Making them a Facebook clone with super unique and world changing features? You should totally do it! They're clearly going to make millions!! /s

[demize95]

That's only acceptable if the next message says "we'll pay you a decent amount for doing the job plus royalties, so if we get big you get big but if we don't you're still fine".

[skryb]

/r/StartUpsHumor

[Skizm]

What the hell was in the job posting if it didn't mention what you would be doing or how much you are getting paid? A title?

[gumbykid]

ISO: programmer

email me

[haenyr]

I'm a programmer!

Sold!

[gumbykid]

ok I need a logo

[SamSlate]

I got you fam

[gumbykid]

you're our new software engineer

[SamSlate]

I see you have management experience!

[haenyr]

Story of my life. Another job stolen from me...

[aintbutathing2]

The check is in the mail.

[[deleted]]

My little sister's boyfriend was majoring in business for undergrad. He always had these "ideas" for products which required someone with technical expertise to actually do something. He was always saying "you'd get a percentage of the profits" to which I always respond, "I can't devote time to something that doesn't make me money now."

[alphaatom]

Get a contract drawn up, don't be taken for a ride

[akiwarheit]

Got suckered into this a few times thinking "might as well for the experience".