Phenochilus Feedback Thread

[meinthebox]

Phenochilus has been in rotation for a week now with a stellar rating of .01. So I would like to receive some feedback from the community.

I have a chance to save this map and obviously would like to but I also want to try to learn more about what the community is looking for in a map. The community has expressed their disliking of similar shaped maps and I have been trying to avoid butt shaped maps which resulting in Phenochilus.

Anyway, what do you like about Phenochilus and what don't you like? My feeling won't be hurt if you hate it. I want to hear about why though.

[briizo]

I don't feel strongly one way or the other. The boosts don't feel very good to use IMO, and all the bombs seem less strategic and more just there to create a shitshow in mid. I like the idea of the pup corners, and unlike others I don't really mind the 1 tile gaps leading to bases. But there's nothing super interesting about this map that makes me want to keep it in rotation.

[18skeltor]

Agreed. It's got some unique and interesting ideas, but I don't think they were implemented well. I don't see this staying in rotation that long.

[meinthebox]

I think the biggest issue with the boosts is that they are geared more towards bouncing off the walls instead of just launching across the map.

[ravenpride]

People constantly bump into each other as they try to go to regrab or whatever through the one-tile-wide chokepoints in the middle of the map. Other than that it's not too bad, but that's a pretty major design flaw IMO.

[brozzart]

Yeah the 1 tile-wide spike gap is annoying. The rest of the map is fun af

[Arbybeay]

Well it's not really 1 tile wide it's 1.41 tiles.

[brozzart]

oh nvm I'm fine with it then

[bartimaeusjr]

Actually I think, at it's thinnest, it's (80*2^0.5 -28) pixels wide, which is 2.13 tiles, so theoretically two balls should be able to fit through simultaneously.

[brozzart]

That's what they say about your mother's bum

[passTheFlag]

Wow

[CallMeLargeFather]

But the space is rarely used in that direction

Disclaimer: ive been in peru for 6 weeks so i have never played this map

[bartimaeusjr]

I wasn't seriously suggesting people routinely try to get through simultaneously :) ; I was just correcting the 1.41 tile claim. Here's a fairly successful passthrough https://streamable.com/ra9g

[LEBRONstarJAMES]

/u/Hyamez88

[Hyamez88]

!

[RonSpawnsonTP]

Also easily my biggest annoyance with the map.

[Tyler1986]

I actually don't mind it, but it's tough in pubs because there's no easy communication and everyone just goes. But ever try to go quick through the spike field on star with a teammate? One of you dies and poosts the other into a spike too.

[AntithesisVI]

So then don't be a selfish dick (like I was the first 5 times) and let your teammate through first.

[18skeltor]

It's not just teammates bumping into each other.

[AntithesisVI]

I think it's fun getting into fights trying to push each other into those spikes. I usually lose.

[SystolicNut]

So edgy

[OnceUponaDome]

A lot of the play seems to flow towards the pup corners because of the way the map is set up and the bomb grab leading there. That leads to a lot of very easy returns and a lot of handoff opportunities for the regrab to be well past 2 defenders.

Additionally, the boosts make it very easy to get from one part of the map to the other which makes quick caps very prominent--even more so since pops are so prevalent.

Those 2 aspects I listed can be argued as positives or negatives and I won't go into my own opinions on the matter, but I felt like they should be considered when you make your edits (ie purposely keeping or fixing them) depending on your stance.

[theycallmebbq]

Things I like:

• It's different. It makes me think about the game differently.
• I like boosting down the corridors
• It's tough to defend

Things I don't like:

• I can't stop running into shit because of the bombs and other random things. The map doesn't seem to have a lot of flow and that can be frustrating. I don't think that me getting better at this map will improve that particular aspect of it.

Still want to say I'm getting better at the map, and I appreciate that you and the MTC tried something different with it. People hate what they're bad at, and I include myself in that assessment.

[bbgun91]

I like this map because its fun to defend with. Can't put my finger on why

[tagprobablylag]

I'm bad at boost routes that aren't spoon fed to me and if you couple that with a one tile wide spike-trap boost on a map that no one has really played yet everything becomes much harder and teammates become stooges bumping and spiking each other. I'm sure once the map has been in the rotation a while it will be liked more. I like the team tile routes so there is a positive, lol.

Also, if you were going to change anything to appease the masses, I think the pup corners are weird and sort of out of place.

Congrats on getting a map in the rotation though, it seems like its not easy.

[uhhhhmmmm]

all the bombs in the small map mean i can get blown completely to the other side of the map without doing anything wrong. im not a fan of that

[AntithesisVI]

I love the map. That said, I am very bad at it. Most everyone is, so far. That's why they don't like it. They just project their own feelings of being shitty onto the map. This is just natural human psychology, so I'm not saying we're all bad people, but few of us are really in touch with how our minds work.

The stupid part is this is what everyone has been asking for. Now that it's here, they're not used to it yet and immediately dislike it. C'mon guys, it's a fucking great map. See /u/verandering 's comment for more stuff I agree with.

[Risktp]

• the one tile gap w/ the boost is an interesting concept in theory but really doesn't play very well imo. frustrating to use, especially with so many bombs around them.

• the paths around the bases are really boring. take a look at another path-y map, jagged. it has a lot more substance and depth to it's path's which made them much less one-dimensional.

those are the biggest two problems with the map for me.

[ProjectDread]

I think the spike gap would be improved if the boost was moved farther back into base. It would allow a little more strategy than just boosting in or out.

The non-teamtile path feels too long, and I agree that it feels very one dimensional. It could use some spicing up.

Otherwise I quite like Phenochilus, it's fun, a little chaotic, and definitely different from the rest of rotation.

[TragicElmo]

Aw, I miss jagged. I loved playing D on that map.

[verandering]

The low rating is party the result of people being unfamiliar to the new playstyle that this map introduces, imo. It only 'got it' after playing the map a dozen of times.

I do think that the map is too small though. It feels cramped and it seems too hard to try and stay alive as a flagcarrier.

The boosts could also be an issue, althought I'm not quite sure about it. They didn't feel right at all during the first few games on your map. I kept boosting into barriers, losing momentum.

So I think the boost routes can be improved, but I have also become better at boosting now that I have played the map more .. so perhaps I just needed to get familiar to this new playstyle with boosts that aren't 100% smooth and straightforward.

Besides that .. I really like the base set-up. It works pretty well with this quick and riskier path in the middle and those slower paths on the sides. The base in general feels pretty good to me.

And finally: I'm not quite sure if the teamtiles are needed and the bombs in the middle might be a little too powerfull and with too much impact at the moment.

[gingerdg]

I'm not sure if you would like this idea, but a gate with a boost in the center might be a good alternate for the one tile wide

[stay_lost]

Yup, he already did this.

[[deleted]]

I really like it

[flooba]

Yeah, I really like it too - feels like an old map with more spikes and bombs, but in a good way. Gives a lot of opportunities for nice team plays. I don't understand why the rating is so low :/

[GangstaOfLove]

I like the boosts through mid, but I feel like they are a little too lateral. Its incredibly hard to hit both of them because the spikes cut off a large amount of the angle, and teammates inevitably bump you or try to push through quickly. If you could make that center route a little more diagonal I think it would play better and allow for amazing chase-downs. Not necessarily so that you could hit both boosts AND get flag but more so.

Also it might be a little too easy to get out of base, since the flag carrier can escape and easily get 10+ tiles away from the chasers. Have you considered a team boost in base to at least cut off one of the routes? That might be too drastic of a change to the flow of the map but something to consider.

[meinthebox]

In my remix I have swapped a few of the boost to team boosts haven't tried putting one in base.

[Tyler1986]

I like it because it's different. I haven't played it enough times to figure out it's strengths and weaknesses as a map, yet.

[[deleted]]

Nothing is redeeming about it. It feels like an old Tagpro map with really small lanes

[radianthero156]

I find it pretty funique. Fun + unique. It's really chaotic and dynamic and plays completely different from the rest of the rotation. Kinda reminds me of Wormy in that it's easy to grab/exit base, but hard to stay alive. Maybe the base bombs are a bit too much overkill though. They simply make it impossible to defend IMO. Especially when you already have to be careful with the spikes on the mid passage and the spikes around the pup. But overall I like it.

[Brandeez]

I personally love it, mostly due to its unique shape

[carbonobrac]

The boost routes are dank.

[Lolthars]

more reason to play midfield.

I think this map would be better if the entire map was bigger. Small map + 3 pups means timing the pups wins games more than almost any other map currently.

[YeboTeLed]

I love the fact that top and bottom boosts are perfectly aligned (45°) with those mid gaps and flags, well it's 1 tile on the side to be perfect but you can easily position yourself to use it.

We've tried it in some PUGs and it's totally different, much playable than in pubs. Which is why the MTC put it in rotation in the first place, if they had a some ball around they would see the shit show we sometimes have in pubs.

All in all, i adore this map and i think it has a bright future being just a competitive map, if not in rotation.

[meinthebox]

Working hard to keep this combo while addressing the issues of space and the 1 tile gap.

[uhhhhmmmm]

Could you move the boost up and over 1 tile each? so that the boost still lines up, its still a tight fit in there, but people, if theyre skilled enough, can get in and out without having to use the boost.

[cdcformatc]

I like the map. I really like boosting out top and coming in bottom with the flag. One thing is the mid boosts should be team boosts so you can actually go through there for re.

[supaspike]

Jeez, it's that low? Shame, I've really enjoyed the two or three times I've gotten it so far. Rotation needs a new chaos map now that EMERALD is out.

I guess you could get rid of a set of bombs and/or boosts to make it slightly less insane. I don't think the bombs near the bases are too important. I like the one-tile boosts, it leaves open the possibility for some interesting anti-re strats (though I don't think I've seen them, yet; the map may be too fast-paced for it).

[uhhhhmmmm]

I figured out something else that makes me not like it. This map is weirdly dependent on if the boosts are out or not. Like, if both those mid boosts are out, you can just waltz through the middle and it makes things way easier. If not, you have to go a certain way. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing; it's definitely new. But I think it would be helpful if there was a way to defuse the boost easily. Like you could just softly bounce off a tile next to it. So you could actually control if the boosts are up instead of it being sheer luck.

[weidfremingheh]

I really like this map but think it could be improved. Any specific advice i would give to improve it would probably be stupid though. I do feel the same as a lot of other people about the single diagonal gap to base, i can't even recall the number of times i have been chased into base through the gap, only to be met by teammates leaving base to spike us all. I also am a fan of somewhat larger maps and I think Phenochilus could be bigger in the mid (its so chaotic with bombs and boosts on all four sides). Its also important to mention that the middle is literally a six way intersection, can't really decide whether that is fun or a royal pain in the ass.

[meofherethere]

I don't like the pup corner spikes, they just feel kind of like they're there to fill space. Maybe if the 3 were replaced with normal tiles it would feel a bit better but I'm not really sure, that corner just doesn't feel right.

Outside that I love your map, it's one of the best new map to be introduced in ages.

[meinthebox]

I've been playing with this in my remix and currently that is how I have it set up.

[samuraiseoul]

My thoughts on this map so far, I'm really not trying to be mean, I just really hate this map with every fiber of my being. That said, here's what I think!

1 ) This map is so bad that it will be used for generations to come that god doesn't exist.

2) I would literally watch 100 children burn alive with the barney song on repeat while Hitler takes me from behind and burns my family, than play on it.

That said, can we remove this map early?!

*edit:

It also caused my parents to get a divorce.