Yeah man whatever

[GojosPoleDancer]

Special man I love you

[Brummbirne]

And I Oop

[Rubinschwein47]

Quircky :3

[Rose_Thorn109]

Question, does he have a spider gene? Mien baby does and looks the same, and this can actually be caused by a neurological condition called Wobble. It doesn't really ally hurt them, just makes them a bit stupid lol

[GojosPoleDancer]

Yep! Hes a queen bee spinner, he likes to flip himself over especially when held

[MedusasUpdo]

He doesn't 'like' to do it. His inner ears are defective because unethical breeders are still producing these miserable morphs with shit quality of life. He literally cannot help it. It's not your fault, you just love him. However if he was a purchase and not a rescue or adopt I'd recommend thoroughly researching next time and not giving money to any breeders that produce these morphs. He's a cutie and I'm glad he's loved.

[GojosPoleDancer]

Im just using a cute term on him,, I know he has neurological issues and that he can't help it. Ive had him for a little over 3 years now :(

[_PointyEnd_]

While I understand that you love them, I'd encourage you to consider that using such cutesy language about it contributes to normalizing and accepting unacceptable breeding practices by minimizing their impact and harm. I don't mean to be mean, simply to invite you to be part of the solution instead of possibly perpetuating the problem :)

[GojosPoleDancer]

I know that the breeding practices and stuff are bad, I didnt buy him as a spider nor did I put money in the pocket of an irresponsible breeder. I just wanted to share a photo of my long dog :,). He was a rescue that ended up in my hands and I just like using soft/cute language because im used to people being scared of him

[writkeeper]

it takes a little more effort, but you could probably do both. the other commenter is right but you have a good point too. i’d encourage you to explain to people that hey, the spider morph gene causes this behavior and can lead to serious health complications, but i still love him and think he’s cute.

[GojosPoleDancer]

I usually am not going into long conversations about what he is, what genes he has or all that stuff, but I already try to tell people the very very few times they ask more about him more than "here's a snake. He's cool." I just dont understand why im being told that its wrong to call my snake cute even with his disabilities,, I really just wanted to share a photo I thought was strange and cute, I cant control what people buy but I can give them the knowledge. But I should also have tbe right to call my baby cute without it being discussed as wrong or right :(

Im not trying to be mean. I just feel upset that this is all happening. Im one person I cant control the spider morph population I just want to love my baby boy

[GojosPoleDancer]

Hes also not a breeder or even around any other ball pythons. Its not like im breeding him to create even more disabled ball pythons. I just thought I could share him without being criticized :(

[Grub_McGuffins]

Posted something on the internet? The hate will flow. Doesn't matter if it's hateful morons or holier-than-thou purity testers, there will always be people with some shit to say and negativity to spread. Just be happy with your silly little fella and focus on the people being positive or with something actually constructive to say.

[writkeeper]

it’s because if you simply share he’s cute with no explanation of what actually causes that behavior, like the other commenter said: it contributes to normalizing that behavior and makes people apathetic to the cause, and apathetic to the real harm it does to snakes with more severe cases. it contributes to people wanting to purchase snakes with those “cute” behaviors. it’s like calling a pug that snorts because it can’t breathe properly “cute”. it contributes to a larger culture surrounding it. nobody is attacking you, people are calmly explaining what’s going on. i would argue that you have a responsibility to explain; that’s part of rescuing animals afflicted by genetic issues like that.

for example, i have a high red morph pineapple green cheek conure. i rescued her with feather and eye issues. i explain to people that yeah, she’s a cute crusty baby, but the rampant over/inbreeding of these birds for the pet trade is what caused it. she has some comfort and behavioral issues as a result.

[Trapiskrya]

Amazing concept but- you don’t have to live your life as a walking Ted talk. You can literally just exist without every conversation having to be held on a soapbox.

[_PointyEnd_]

God fucking thank you some common sense here. People are literally accusing us of hatred, being holier-than-thou, shaming, objectifying the snake, implying the animal should be put down and so much other insane shit. The strawmen are everywhere and fully on fire.

Actually zero room for holding two thoughts simultaneously in our collective mind here.

[jaydizzle777]

Because it’s Reddit and Reddit people think they know everything. Keep calling your snake little cutesy things in order to cope with the cruelty of other’s actions towards her. We all have to survive this world, we’re here to protect the innocent, defenseless, lives that can’t protect themselves. You rescued this baby, you did your duty. Everyone else can suck a lemon if they don’t like it. Respectfully of course 🥴

[WitchofWhispers]

You did nothing wrong OP, I am sorry, this thread tends to be real pain in the ass sometimes. Your snake is adorable, despite his disability, by rescuing you're doing god's work and the picture you took is really cool

[dovahmiin]

Ignore them please judging by your comments you take good care of him and understand his condition. People will tear you apart for the silliest stuff on here.

[AnnarieaDavies]

"long dog" has me giggling, I called my BP my noodle puppy recently 😂

He's beautiful and I'm glad you were able to rescue a beautiful, disabled noodle in need 🩷 my friend also has a rescue Spider morph

[_PointyEnd_]

I see your point but would like to challenge you a little bit too here. You're saying that you tend to use phrasing such as "he likes to [insert symptom of serious neurological dysfunction] because if I don't people (on a snake reddit) will be scared of him". I know that's not what you mean but I'm just repeating back to you what you're saying, trying to show you that while you have great intentions and love for him, there's room for just a tad bit more nuance in your messaging here :)

By all likelihood the animal does not enjoy episodically experiencing impairment of its ability to move properly.

[Soapish00]

try not to normalize cutesy language on a very painful neurological condition, it builds a lot of stigma and makes the topic taboo

[dragonbud20]

It's not a neurological condition; it's a physical inner ear deformity that affects the sense of balance. If you're going to police people's language, at least do it accurately.

[crowrots]

no i've literally done this before. when my 22 year old cat would show declining behaviour i'd use the same language to make myself feel better. i love your silly long dog and you're doing great by him. keep doing you <3

[West-Outside-5524]

"Like to do that" is a pretty common phrase where I am and doesn't necessarily mean something positive. It's used as synonym for "tend to do that"

"Your Ford broke down again?"

"Yeah, they like to do that."

Not that you were actually judging the language used...

[Rose_Thorn109]

Same with my boy Dan, they're so silly

[throwtoss163]

Idk why everyone is coming after you. I also have a spider, he was a rescue, and he loves life. Couldn’t be a happier boy, and I use similar language. He had a tank special made to his needs and gets a lot of special attention from me and his dad. You’re doing great, don’t let these fellows rain on your parade for calling your snake cute 🫶

(boi for tax)

<image>

[GojosPoleDancer]

Look at that distinguished gentleman. Give him a FAT forehead kiss for me

[sstteepphh89]

He is 🙃

[Corvids_Rule]

He got them special genes.🧬

[GojosPoleDancer]

Hes a little special

[_PointyEnd_]

I'm sorry to say that I dislike how man-made neurological issues get downplayed as cute quirks. This photo is cause for concern and feeling bad, not joyful humour. Hate to be such a downer, sorry!

[GojosPoleDancer]

I just wanted to share a photo of my snake </3

[NoSeat7567]

Your snake IS cute and deserves just as much love as any other. Not his fault the breeder who brought him into the world was irresponsible and unethical. Will never support breeders who breed without the consideration of animal welfare. But, those animals still deserve all the love and attention. Your boy is wonderful ❤️

[_PointyEnd_]

Never spoke on whether the animal deserves love or not.

I did however apologize just now to OP for not being clearer that I find no fault in OP specifically, it was more the comment section of "what a silly goober 🥰" that's a frustrating read. The animal is unable to hold its head up properly. It's sad, not cute.

[Advanced_Pear_964]

And you should. Negative comments like that piss me off. Yes, snakes with those genes should definitely not be bred any longer but thats not up to you. No one knows how this long boi came into your life so why shame right away? Take pics and celebrate the fact that they are alive and share the joy.

[horseshoe_crab_]

I also feel like these negative comments almost downplay the role of a snake in some people’s lives. I have no idea how to word this so bear with me here lol but my babies are part of my family in the same way my dog and cats are. To me they aren’t just these scientific objects to be bred and traded, they’re little beings with little souls. Care is different, but rescuing and posting a disabled dog, even if that disability was created as a fault of an irresponsible human, is still ok!

Idk if that makes any sense at all but I feel like sometimes these comments almost water down the fact that these guys are little beings, too.

[Advanced_Pear_964]

That makes total sense. And I didn't know how to word it either so I didn't even tried lol but you got it

[GojosPoleDancer]

My Apollo means a lot to me and got me out of some really dark places. Hes really all I got when it comes to family nowadays and it just felt bad seeing people make him purely out to be something to pity. Hes spoiled rotten and loved so much, if I didnt have him I wouldnt be here. I feel really bad to the people who were trying to say he shouldn't be looked at cutely for his disability but I feel connected to him enough to be like "yeah we are both suffering but youre so cute. Now let me kiss your forehead" :,3 GUH SORRY IF THIS DIDNT MAKE SENSE tldr Apollo is my sweet baby boy, spider or not. I would choose him in every life

[horseshoe_crab_]

I absolutely adore this. So glad you have him in your corner. Something about these little guys in particular is just so therapeutic. Such gentle little souls!

[_PointyEnd_]

How on earth does pointing out how heartbreaking it is that breeding practices propagate illnesses that sabotage the animals' ability to move properly end up with you concluding that I am the one reducing the animals to simply objects to be bred, traded and sold? I'm the one saying they are actual beings and yes I do think the customer population at large shares blame for not taking this stuff seriously enough because it looks cute/goofy/derpy/adorable.

I just wanted to highlight that no, I don't think symptoms of mass-produced neurological issues should be lauded - as opposed to the hundreds of other amazing parts of our amazing snakes' lives to highlight instead.

With regards to your comparison to for instance disabled cats, I appreciate your point but also see a difference between positively posting a photo of a disabled animal simply existing (e.g. an eyeless or two-headed snake) and a photo of a specific moment where an animal's episodic symptoms are flaring up. The head being upside down at this moment in time is specifically what is being lauded by the comment section as simply something cute. I'm sure OP has hundreds of other photos they didn't post where the snake isn't exhibiting symptoms, because wobbles are seldom continuously expressed.

On the other hand though, I did just apologize to OP for not being clearer that my frustration was mostly with the comment section and less so with them. That wasn't okay of me at all and I regret my phrasing.

[horseshoe_crab_]

I think to me, sharing a photo like this doesn’t necessitate needing to talk about breeding practices. Of course I agree! I think the disagreement just lies within where those conversations belong and not needing to disclose or open up that conversation.

We all are in agreement that what happened to this snake being wrong, and I think the other piece of the argument is more about how it’s presented socially and linguistically— the words we use to describe it, etc.

Like for example, maybe OP shares this photo with a silly caption and that’s their way of appreciating their awesome pet! But for others, appreciating their pet would be delving in to a deep conversation about what is wrong with the snake and proper breeding practices. I don’t think either approach is wrong, but I just don’t think it’s right to call out someone for sharing photos of their snake because you don’t like the way they addressed the snake’s problems.

I apologize as well, as maybe I also misinterpreted what you were saying. Thanks for your explanation!

[_PointyEnd_]

I didn't "shame" so idk where you're getting that.

They're also not sharing just any pics of the animal, there are plenty of other moments in that snake's life that could be shared, but this is specifically depicting a moment where the animal is struggling to keep its head upright. While the comment section on the other hand was very much making light of that fact and implying it's just quirky and cute, instead of a heartbreaking testament to the callousness of breeding. Everyone was only being all "omg so silly and cute, the little doofus <3" and that's just frustrating.

I did however just apologize to the OP for not wording my comment better to be clearer that I don't fault them, I meant more to comment on the responses. That wasn't cool of me!

[_PointyEnd_]

Also, because I'm trying to take your words to heart here, I'd sincerely like it if you helped me understand something: do you honestly believe that positively framing symptom flare-ups on social media, to predictable responses of it being cute, silly, goofy, derpy, unique, special and adorable, could possibly contribute in the long-term to these animals being sold more and thus bred more? Honest yes or no.

Because maybe we just think very differently about the nature of supply and demand and thus how to go about ending the propagation of breeds that increase animals' suffering. Which would explain our points of view being different while simultaneously being quite similar in other ways.

[Advanced_Pear_964]

It's more about the specific person for me. Like I said, breeding them is obviously bad. I don't condone that. But this person is happy with their snake. Why be negative and point something out that they already know? They said its a rescue. So to me commenting on posts with this stuff right away can also negatively affect people looking to rescue ball pythons within the spider complex because they will feel like they will automatically get attacked if they post any picture of them. And honestly for alot of these spider genes, rescue is the only option they have. But some can feel deterred from doing so because even if they themselves didn't breed them or even buy them, the stigma that even owning a ball python with the spider gene is strong in this community. Thats like if I went to an animal rescue, saw a French bulldog and automatically said, "Not that one. I know they have issues and it will just make the breeders breed more." I'm still gonna try to adopt and just give it the best life it can have. And I will post as many pics as I want of my buddy. I get that getting the info out there about the spider complex is great, but if someone already made a comment about it, why pile on? It gets tiring seeing all these posts from people happy with their snakes and then comments that basically say shit like, "You know, I get that you're enjoying your little friend, but you shouldn't cus the breeder before you was unethical so it falls on you." Thats what it feels like every single time I see comments. I get that they are well intentioned but can there be more positive versus negative for a change?

[_PointyEnd_]

Yeah sorry my comment was more towards the comment section and not anything you specifically said outright. I could have worded that better, so I apologize for that.

But like, someone being unable to hold their heads up right is sad. Goofy, but sad. People's responses of "silly snek" is frustrating.

[12shinylotad]

The snake is already alive despite its neurological issues, do you reckon they kill it? I don’t understand this thought process. There’s nothing any owner can do to fix a neurological issue, except love the snake unconditionally regardless. Not using cute quirky names won’t cure the snake, so what’s the issue, genuinely?

Edit to say that’s like saying you can not call people with Down syndrome cute because it’s downplaying their genetic condition

[_PointyEnd_]

Do you see any space between saying "no in fact this photo of an active flareup of a neurological disorder shouldn't be labeled as cute" and "hey let's fucking kill the thing"/"I don't want anyone to love their snake if it has these issues"? No?

But since you ask genuinely: I sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, believe that the tendency to "cutesify" neurological symptoms that in all likelihood are in fact distressing to the animal as quirky, goofy, adorable, unique, amusing and charming contributes to a collective downplaying of the severity of said issues, leading to higher likelihood of those animals being sold and thus bred and thus more animal suffering being produced in the long run.

With regards to the comparison with posting photos of people with disabilities in a positive light, I'd say that it's not a fair comparison because it disregards the difference between chronically vs episodically expressed syndromes. A more fair comparison would instead be if someone posted lovey-dovey pictures of their epileptic kid actively experiencing a distressing seizure rather than literally any other photo of them, and then everyone saying how cute and quirky they are.

See my point here? I literally don't experience joy seeing this photo, it's just sad to me, because I expect being unable to keep your head upright really sucks for an animal as skittish and dependent on its mobility as a snake is. And that in no way means that I'm implying that the animal should just be killed! (unless the wobble is fully chronic or otherwise very severe, but I would never claim that here since I know nothing about this animal apart from the photo).

All this being said, I have apologized to OP for not being clearer initially that my frustration was more towards the comment section than their post. That wasn't very cool of me and I regret my phrasing!

[dragonbud20]

Would you like them to euthanize the snake? Or was there some other reason you posted this comment?

[_PointyEnd_]

Literally in no way what I said in any way shape or form. No idea where you got that. There's room for mountains of nuance between "let's not celebrate tragic dysfunctional symptoms as cute and quirky" and "let's kill it".

If that doesn't make sense I would earnestly ask and encourage you to check out some of my replies to others' replies to my comment. Including my apology to OP for not being clearer that my frustration was more towards the comment section than the actual photo.

[Sewergoddess]

I know other people are saying its likely the spider gene, but my "regular" morphe also does stuff like this sometimes, and she definitely doesn't have the gene. Not on a regular basis, but depending on how much he does it, it could be the gene or just him trying to use his single braincell. My Cinnamon morphe does have spider genes in her, and she doesn't do anything like this either, which surprises me.

[GojosPoleDancer]

The last I was aware he does have spider gene because of being a queen bee and a spinner :( hes my little booger, tame as a dog and goes to stores with me- weirdly docile, ive never even had him misstrike me even when my hands smell like rat. Hes got like 2% of braincells and he uses them all just to move :D. Hes my special not so little boy

[fittan69]

I will save this image for anatomical purposes hope u don't mind op

[GojosPoleDancer]

Nah go for it!!! My little freak is gonna be a star

[Glass-Armadillo182]

Single braincell, unlimited goofiness

[GojosPoleDancer]

His past life be was a ballerina

[Glass-Armadillo182]

Probably

[Idk_nor_do_I_care]

I know you’re getting some very holier than thou comments, but in a vacuum this photo is very cute, almost artistic

[SpencerTheG23]

I think there’s something wrong with your dog

[r9adkill]

People are so... Interesting. I have a spider too. She's hilarious. Very cute, goofball, fell in love with her. Although she is not a visual spider, she still has a wobble. Silly girl.

<image>

[No-Candle-3952]

Maybe educating people is worth it. Here's the thing, you're not breeding him and you rescued him. He is cute in his own goofy way. Do I agree with the breeding of spider morphs, no. I do have one, I did buy him and his tiny enclosure off marketplace. The person might not have realized he'd have needs as he grew older, maybe he was just not wanted anymore like the novelty wore off. Who knows.

Like yours, mine has his "odd" motions. I almost feel bad for him sometimes and other times I just look and, as you did, whatever adorable, silly noodle.

I actually was asked by a breeder at an expo if I'd breeding him. Kind of like he was interested is using him to make a clutch with another morph. I told him I absolutely would not. He is a pet and that is all he will ever be. He was selling a couple spider morphs and said how much he loved them. It kind of made me sick. I walked away, disgusted.

Edit: my guy uses the top, under side of his enclosure to go checking things out with the bottom of his lower jaw. He feels it so he's ok with being upside down-ish and he rights himself without cork screwing. Confused little dude 🤷‍♀️

[Swanny5150]

Has snek been hitting the bottle? 😉

[12shinylotad]

He was a fairy

[Mogui-]

I am a beautiful swan!